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#31 of 51 Old 04-13-2011, 07:30 AM
 
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I agree that not reading well at age 6 is not necessarily a concern. I think the conventional wisdom is that kids usually read by age 7 (and sure, many read long before that, but this skill is NOT a bell curve). I would not be blase about an 8 or 9 year old not reading.

 

But, having to remind him to take a bite when he is hungry - that does not sound normal to me. I would be concerned about that. And, like others have said, not from a "gee, he's lazy" standpoint, but a "gosh, maybe he needs some help" standpoint. PPs have already mentioned the possibilities that popped in my head, including hypotonia.

 

Looking right at something and not seeing it - yeah, that could be a lie, but that would not be my first conclusion.

 

I think your kid is having a tough time and may need some help.


Homeschooling mama to 6 year old DD.

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#32 of 51 Old 04-13-2011, 06:24 PM
 
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The only issue I see here is that there are some battles going on. You don't have to battle with a child. It really sounds like he's winning. Why not take yourself out of the battle and eliminate it altogether? I like the poster who explained how she left her daughter alone and carried on without her and her daughter caught up and wanted dessert too. If you get into a battle with your child, your child will probably care more about winning than you will, especially if he's as smart as your boy sounds. I don't think theres anything "wrong" with him or that he needs to be sent off somewhere to be broken in and shaped into a school child mold. I think the two of you could use a break from each other sometimes, though. Is he like this with anyone else or is it just the interactions between the two of you? Kids do strange things sometimes and he seems to have found a pattern of behavior with you that makes him feel in control. 

 

"I have to fight with him all the time to get him to do anything at all." Why are you fighting with him? Why is it so important that you make him do what you want him to do? What is the goal of giving him instructions?  I understand there are certain situations where he must listen like he can't run into the road or majorly disturb other people in public spaces, and things like that. But at home, is it possible to give him responsibilities and ask him how he would go about accomplishing them instead of battling for obedience? Since he doesn't even seem to know how to locate the sock, back up a bit. Ask him to look at the floor with you. Describe how it has some things on it. Ask him to identify the things he sees on the floor. Ask him to identify the things on the floor that do not belong. Ask him what he might do with things that do not belong. What is another place to put the things on the floor that do not belong?  An interaction like that will teach him to be tidy without a power struggle. Assume he wants to do well and he wants to learn. I'm sure he does. He's smart enough to have learned the powerful feeling of saying no to you, of telling you he can't, of feeling your big reaction of pushing the issue and turning it into a fight with him. 

 

"Life is a constant battle with him! Unless he's playing by himself or playing video games, it's a fight. I feel like he's just trying to be difficult all the time. Everything I try to get him to do he'll do the opposite or claim he can't, then argue with me about it. I'm at the end of my rope with this kid!"

Don't battle with him!  You can let go of the rope. It's ok to back up and let him find some of his own autonomy. He might feel like he's getting to be a big boy now with a baby on the way and he might be ready to act more independently if you let him.  If you aren't involved in a battle with him than you don't have to make sure to win. You just distract, divert, move on to something else, approach it from a different angle - DIFFUSE IT.

He reminds me a lot of my very intelligent, very stubborn, very determined daughter who always wants to be in control. She's definitely a challenge for me! 

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#33 of 51 Old 04-14-2011, 01:18 AM
 
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The only issue I see here is that there are some battles going on. You don't have to battle with a child. It really sounds like he's winning. Why not take yourself out of the battle and eliminate it altogether? I like the poster who explained how she left her daughter alone and carried on without her and her daughter caught up and wanted dessert too. If you get into a battle with your child, your child will probably care more about winning than you will, especially if he's as smart as your boy sounds. I don't think theres anything "wrong" with him or that he needs to be sent off somewhere to be broken in and shaped into a school child mold. I think the two of you could use a break from each other sometimes, though. Is he like this with anyone else or is it just the interactions between the two of you? Kids do strange things sometimes and he seems to have found a pattern of behavior with you that makes him feel in control. 

 

"I have to fight with him all the time to get him to do anything at all." Why are you fighting with him? Why is it so important that you make him do what you want him to do? What is the goal of giving him instructions?  I understand there are certain situations where he must listen like he can't run into the road or majorly disturb other people in public spaces, and things like that. But at home, is it possible to give him responsibilities and ask him how he would go about accomplishing them instead of battling for obedience? Since he doesn't even seem to know how to locate the sock, back up a bit. Ask him to look at the floor with you. Describe how it has some things on it. Ask him to identify the things he sees on the floor. Ask him to identify the things on the floor that do not belong. Ask him what he might do with things that do not belong. What is another place to put the things on the floor that do not belong?  An interaction like that will teach him to be tidy without a power struggle. Assume he wants to do well and he wants to learn. I'm sure he does. He's smart enough to have learned the powerful feeling of saying no to you, of telling you he can't, of feeling your big reaction of pushing the issue and turning it into a fight with him. 

 

"Life is a constant battle with him! Unless he's playing by himself or playing video games, it's a fight. I feel like he's just trying to be difficult all the time. Everything I try to get him to do he'll do the opposite or claim he can't, then argue with me about it. I'm at the end of my rope with this kid!"

Don't battle with him!  You can let go of the rope. It's ok to back up and let him find some of his own autonomy. He might feel like he's getting to be a big boy now with a baby on the way and he might be ready to act more independently if you let him.  If you aren't involved in a battle with him than you don't have to make sure to win. You just distract, divert, move on to something else, approach it from a different angle - DIFFUSE IT.

He reminds me a lot of my very intelligent, very stubborn, very determined daughter who always wants to be in control. She's definitely a challenge for me! 


I generally agree with the wisdom in this post. However, I'm really really getting annoyed by the anti-school messages in not only this post, but a few others upthread.

I don't know if sending the OP's little boy to school is a good idea or not. As homeschooling is going *now*, I do agree with PPs that it's not working and school could, possibly, be one solution the OP might want to consider, among the myriad other solutions people have offered.

My child goes to school and he wasn't "sent off somewhere to be broken in and shaped into a school child mold." I mean, what is a "school child mold" anyway? Are all children in school "broken" mindless automatons as this post suggests? I don't think so, any more than homeschooled kids are unsocialized freaks. Both are untrue tropes thrown around in the completely pointless debate about homeschooling vs traditional schooling.

Let's stop that debate in this thread right now. It's not what the OP was asking about and it's pretty offensive.
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#34 of 51 Old 04-14-2011, 04:34 AM
 
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It sounds like you need a break from each other. 

I am not here to debate public, private or homeschool. Every type of school has its place and works well for some children. I can tell you my personal experience. I attended private school until I was 7, then we moved and my mom home schooled me. My parents put me in public school when I was 11, it was the best thing they could have done for ME. (Picture a child pushing the couch around the house, throwing large heavy objects at her siblings, throwing temper tantrums). I was miserable (my sibling say I was crazy) and my parents were desperate. My mother and older sibling :) will testify that once my parents put me in school I did a complete 180 and was the sweet girl I used to be. Obviously every child is different. Being in that school setting was what I needed. I needed the time away from home, it allowed me to socially interact with others and be accountable to my teachers for my school work. My relationship with my parents and siblings dramatically improved because I was no longer fighting everyone. I thrived in the public school environment, some children do not. From my personal experience I would give school a try, if things do not improve or further deteriorate you can always pull him out.

 

Best of luck! I am sure you will figure out what works best for both of you!

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#35 of 51 Old 04-14-2011, 06:47 AM
 
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The only issue I see here is that there are some battles going on. You don't have to battle with a child. It really sounds like he's winning. Why not take yourself out of the battle and eliminate it altogether? I like the poster who explained how she left her daughter alone and carried on without her and her daughter caught up and wanted dessert too. If you get into a battle with your child, your child will probably care more about winning than you will, especially if he's as smart as your boy sounds. I don't think theres anything "wrong" with him or that he needs to be sent off somewhere to be broken in and shaped into a school child mold. I think the two of you could use a break from each other sometimes, though. Is he like this with anyone else or is it just the interactions between the two of you? Kids do strange things sometimes and he seems to have found a pattern of behavior with you that makes him feel in control. 

 

"I have to fight with him all the time to get him to do anything at all." Why are you fighting with him? Why is it so important that you make him do what you want him to do? What is the goal of giving him instructions?  I understand there are certain situations where he must listen like he can't run into the road or majorly disturb other people in public spaces, and things like that. But at home, is it possible to give him responsibilities and ask him how he would go about accomplishing them instead of battling for obedience? Since he doesn't even seem to know how to locate the sock, back up a bit. Ask him to look at the floor with you. Describe how it has some things on it. Ask him to identify the things he sees on the floor. Ask him to identify the things on the floor that do not belong. Ask him what he might do with things that do not belong. What is another place to put the things on the floor that do not belong?  An interaction like that will teach him to be tidy without a power struggle. Assume he wants to do well and he wants to learn. I'm sure he does. He's smart enough to have learned the powerful feeling of saying no to you, of telling you he can't, of feeling your big reaction of pushing the issue and turning it into a fight with him. 

 

"Life is a constant battle with him! Unless he's playing by himself or playing video games, it's a fight. I feel like he's just trying to be difficult all the time. Everything I try to get him to do he'll do the opposite or claim he can't, then argue with me about it. I'm at the end of my rope with this kid!"

Don't battle with him!  You can let go of the rope. It's ok to back up and let him find some of his own autonomy. He might feel like he's getting to be a big boy now with a baby on the way and he might be ready to act more independently if you let him.  If you aren't involved in a battle with him than you don't have to make sure to win. You just distract, divert, move on to something else, approach it from a different angle - DIFFUSE IT.

He reminds me a lot of my very intelligent, very stubborn, very determined daughter who always wants to be in control. She's definitely a challenge for me! 




I generally agree with the wisdom in this post. However, I'm really really getting annoyed by the anti-school messages in not only this post, but a few others upthread.

I don't know if sending the OP's little boy to school is a good idea or not. As homeschooling is going *now*, I do agree with PPs that it's not working and school could, possibly, be one solution the OP might want to consider, among the myriad other solutions people have offered.

My child goes to school and he wasn't "sent off somewhere to be broken in and shaped into a school child mold." I mean, what is a "school child mold" anyway? Are all children in school "broken" mindless automatons as this post suggests? I don't think so, any more than homeschooled kids are unsocialized freaks. Both are untrue tropes thrown around in the completely pointless debate about homeschooling vs traditional schooling.

Let's stop that debate in this thread right now. It's not what the OP was asking about and it's pretty offensive.


My response to that was in the vein of the power struggle. My children all attend public school although I would homeschool them if I thought we would do well at it. I was homeschooled as a child and loved it. I remember one year I spent doing community theater and being a mother's helper to a neighbor and working through 3 grades of Saxon math books. I also read tons of books. I was 8 years old.  The solution here is not to send this child to someone to learn obedience - that's not what school is for. I think you are reading more into my comments than I have intended.

 

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#36 of 51 Old 04-14-2011, 11:15 AM
 
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My response to that was in the vein of the power struggle. My children all attend public school although I would homeschool them if I thought we would do well at it. I was homeschooled as a child and loved it. I remember one year I spent doing community theater and being a mother's helper to a neighbor and working through 3 grades of Saxon math books. I also read tons of books. I was 8 years old.  The solution here is not to send this child to someone to learn obedience - that's not what school is for. I think you are reading more into my comments than I have intended.

 


glad to hear it! It's just that"sent off to be broken" and "school child mold" are pretty evocative, and not in a positive way! I'm not sure how they could have been interpreted in any other way than negatively. At any rate, as I said in my posting above, I completely agreed with most of what you had to say . . just not the loaded language about sending kids to school.
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#37 of 51 Old 04-14-2011, 11:38 AM
 
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My response to that was in the vein of the power struggle. My children all attend public school although I would homeschool them if I thought we would do well at it. I was homeschooled as a child and loved it. I remember one year I spent doing community theater and being a mother's helper to a neighbor and working through 3 grades of Saxon math books. I also read tons of books. I was 8 years old.  The solution here is not to send this child to someone to learn obedience - that's not what school is for. I think you are reading more into my comments than I have intended.

 




glad to hear it! It's just that"sent off to be broken" and "school child mold" are pretty evocative, and not in a positive way! I'm not sure how they could have been interpreted in any other way than negatively. At any rate, as I said in my posting above, I completely agreed with most of what you had to say . . just not the loaded language about sending kids to school.


I suppose my wording could have been better crafted, but the point I was trying to illustrate is that this is a power struggle and the option of sending the child to school as part of the power struggle gave me the impression that school is being used as obedience training. I don't think that is the purpose of school although there is some element of uniformity and compliance at school even if that's not the primary focus.  They have a lot of children and one adult so they do expect certain behaviors in the interest of getting things done in the classroom.  From my reading of the first and subsequent posts, it seemed the desire was to have a kid who followed directions the first time around and did what he was told and went along with instruction with full attention and without being contrary.  If this is not happening at home and the solution is to send the child to school in order for him to be taught this behavior, then it follows that school must be a place for breaking bad behavior and molding children into a certain type of student. I don't agree! I was only trying to illustrate how the solution of school was actually continuing the power struggle and likely wouldn't solve the interactions at home in the long run anyway.   

 

I think this child sounds really cute and funny but BORED! And I think the mama loves him and is likely a bit stressed and anxious with the end of pregnancy and impending baby's arrival. From the descriptions of him it doesn't sound like he has seizures or ADHD or some other syndrome or disorder - but what do I know? I can only go by what I'm reading here. I think he needs to be given some responsibilities and autonomy.  If there are some lagging skills or other underlying problems that are causing this behavior, then maybe this will help http://www.livesinthebalance.org/whats-your-explanation (or even if there aren't)

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#38 of 51 Old 04-14-2011, 01:16 PM
 
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you could go down the path of diagnosis if you want, but it sounds to me like he could be within the range of normal.

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The only issue I see here is that there are some battles going on. You don't have to battle with a child. It really sounds like he's winning. Why not take yourself out of the battle and eliminate it altogether? I like the poster who explained how she left her daughter alone and carried on without her and her daughter caught up and wanted dessert too. If you get into a battle with your child, your child will probably care more about winning than you will, especially if he's as smart as your boy sounds. I don't think theres anything "wrong" with him or that he needs to be sent off somewhere to be broken in and shaped into a school child mold


Yes, the reading part could be, but the combination of struggling to complete school work (getting it sometimes and not getting it other times) + the fact that he seems to get really tired while doing simple things like eating make me wonder if there's some underlying physical cause. Hypotonia, for example, can be treated (it requires a lot of regular, physical exercise). Knowing what's going on with this child might help his mom parent him better. If mom knows there aren't physical/neurological issues, then yes, it's a power struggle. But I've seen too many parents spend a couple of years fighting with their child, finally get a diagnosis and go "Oh, so s/he wasn't just lazy/stubborn/whatever." And those couple of years of assuming it was the child's 'fault' did damage to the relationship, and to the child's self esteem.

 

Our son has some very mild special needs (sensory). Because of those, he has not been able to learn to swim (he can't bring himself to put his face in the water, the sense of floating freaks him out because his vestibular senses are poor and he can't figure out where his body is or what it's going to do.) My brother has very similar issues, and I distinctly remember how frustrated my parents were with him and how he was often accused of not trying. It wasn't that he didn't want to try, it's that his body went into full panic mode when he was in the water. He couldn't try. Because I know my son can't try (at least right now, as he gets older, it gets better), we avoid that power struggle altogether. I still don't know the best way to teach him to swim, but I know that forcing swimming lessons right now is pointless.

 

So, before declaring this a power struggle, I'd want to know if indeed there was something going on that makes it hard for this child. But jumping to the conclusion that your child is lazy or that you as a parent are making this a huge power struggle, maybe looking for other causes makes sense.

 

Personally, I'd wait until after the baby is born, and the family has readjusted to let mom's hormones and son's reaction to a new sibling work themselves out. But if the problems persist, yes, I would recommend a medical evaluation.


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#39 of 51 Old 04-14-2011, 01:30 PM
 
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My son is diagnosed on the Autism spectrum so, believe me, I know what it's like to parent a child with special needs. I firmly believe that children do well if they can. 

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#40 of 51 Old 04-14-2011, 02:01 PM
 
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To be honest he sounds alot like my 5yo!  LOL!

 

She too is unable to see the thing she is stood ON, she too talks incessantly, she too needs reminding/redirecting 38billion times in every task or she will get distracted/stop.  She too can focus incredibly well in something like an online game (which she very very rarely plays) and not at all on doing something like active learning.

 

To be honest i am very careful which hill i pick to die on.  Like i NEVER remind her to eat the food in front of her, i just ask that she asks before she leaves the table at mealtimes and say "when you've finished eating" if she asks after one bite and a long pause.  I don't try to actively teach her.  She is just beginning to read and write, and she too will write a word one day and then throw a fit the next and insist she doesn't know how (when her dad asks her too - he is big on testing and performing), all her progress has been in her own time on her own terms.  A "lesson" for her might literally be me saying "look how the beads fell when the baby dropped them, they look like a "M"".  That's her lesson in reading for the DAY!  Her dad will sit down with her and try to teach letters for 40minutes and she just switches off/gets upset/gets destructive.  She learns most with a tiny bit of teaching and a lot of absorption time!

 

We are not planning on homeschooling, she's enrolled to begin at the local primary school in August.  Honestly i think it will be really good for her because she is VERY social, and needs a lot more social interaction and play than i am able to provide, and because she lacks the focus to be actively learning a thing for 40minutes she will actually do better where she's sharing the teacher with 17 other kids and has a good bit of free-wheeling task-time to get to grips.  I foresee problems with completing tasks in class, i plan to work on it at home with her (i had the same problem!).  Obviously if school doesn't work out for her we'll revisit it.  I don't see it so much as a discipline thing, but i DO think the relationship one has with a parent is (and to me SHOULD BE) different to that which one has with a teacher.  I think it will enrich DD's life experience to have teachers in her life who aren't her parents.

 

By all means get him evaluated if you want to, but if it were me i think i'd give NOT telling him to eat/micromanaging (for GREAT want of a better term, i KNOW how it is with a kid like this!) what he does and just try to let the fighting stop.  

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#41 of 51 Old 04-14-2011, 03:42 PM
 
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Yes, the reading part could be, but the combination of struggling to complete school work (getting it sometimes and not getting it other times) + the fact that he seems to get really tired while doing simple things like eating make me wonder if there's some underlying physical cause. Hypotonia, for example, can be treated (it requires a lot of regular, physical exercise). Knowing what's going on with this child might help his mom parent him better. If mom knows there aren't physical/neurological issues, then yes, it's a power struggle. But I've seen too many parents spend a couple of years fighting with their child, finally get a diagnosis and go "Oh, so s/he wasn't just lazy/stubborn/whatever." And those couple of years of assuming it was the child's 'fault' did damage to the relationship, and to the child's self esteem.

 

Our son has some very mild special needs (sensory). Because of those, he has not been able to learn to swim (he can't bring himself to put his face in the water, the sense of floating freaks him out because his vestibular senses are poor and he can't figure out where his body is or what it's going to do.) My brother has very similar issues, and I distinctly remember how frustrated my parents were with him and how he was often accused of not trying. It wasn't that he didn't want to try, it's that his body went into full panic mode when he was in the water. He couldn't try. Because I know my son can't try (at least right now, as he gets older, it gets better), we avoid that power struggle altogether. I still don't know the best way to teach him to swim, but I know that forcing swimming lessons right now is pointless.

 

So, before declaring this a power struggle, I'd want to know if indeed there was something going on that makes it hard for this child. But jumping to the conclusion that your child is lazy or that you as a parent are making this a huge power struggle, maybe looking for other causes makes sense.

 

Personally, I'd wait until after the baby is born, and the family has readjusted to let mom's hormones and son's reaction to a new sibling work themselves out. But if the problems persist, yes, I would recommend a medical evaluation.



I understand how getting a disgnosis could help a mom come to terms and stop negatively labelling the child,  but it seems to me to just be replacing one label with another...I guess the point for me is...stop forcing your kids to do stuff they are not interested in.  Why do you need a label to not fight with your kids over reading or swimming or eating or whatever?  I've never had a productive argument with my child.  I have never won an argument with my child.  His vision of the world can be summed up with the quote: "I reject your reality and substitute my own." 

 

Instead of getting mad, I try to get creative.

 

Obviously, if a diagnosis helps you find strategies to do that, then fantastic, but labels can come back to haunt a child, so unless something is really glaringly awful, I'd probably start with diffusing the struggle, and THEN go in for a medical evaluation.  


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#42 of 51 Old 04-14-2011, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just wanted to give a bit of an update - we made a doctor's appointment today for a checkup, showed up, and got told we couldn't be seen because we don't vax. Great. Guess it doesn't matter anyway, because the nurse checked my insurance and even though I was told it was good till the end of the month, it's canceled. So we're SOL until we can get our new insurance set up here.

 

We've had a few pretty good days in a row. Some tough moments, but overall decent days. He's been happily doing his schoolwork, actually retaining things we teach him, and even eating well. I don't know what's changed, but I'm not complaining! We got some new school supplies today that he's really excited about, so hopefully we have another good day tomorrow too. Something that seems to have helped is that we've started doing week-long units and connecting all of our activities to the same theme. Last week it was George Washington and this week it's farms. Totally random units, but he likes them.

 

One thing we're still having trouble with is that he seems to get REALLY cranky when we try to do stuff with him. Like yesterday we took him to the park for an hour because he'd done his school stuff so well and he whined about everything the rest of the night. He does that a lot and it really makes us not want to take him places because he gets so cranky and mean after.

 

Thanks for all the input from everyone. Here's hoping things continue to get better.


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#43 of 51 Old 04-14-2011, 05:44 PM
 
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Instead of getting mad, I try to get creative.   

YES YES YES. Like when I feel like yelling at my kids out of frustration, my sister taught me to lower my voice instead. I'll grrr and then talk in a low voice and they know that means business but I'm not an out of control screaming banshee, either. Kind of reminds me of how it's better to mooo like a cow during labor than it is to yell that it hurts.  

 

It sounds like posting about things was the magic that was needed, minkajane.  I've had that happen when my baby wouldn't nap or started biting while nursing. Completely frustrated, I'd get online to post about it and then, whaddya know baby magically stops after I post about it. 

My 6 year old tends to vent a lot, too.  She followed me through the grocery store today whining about everything.  I pointed out to her that she could choose a happy reality instead and talk about things she likes instead of things she doesn't, she'd have more fun.  Luckily she changed her tune because I was feeling harried and stressed just from listening to her. 

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#44 of 51 Old 04-14-2011, 06:06 PM
 
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Just wanted to give a bit of an update - we made a doctor's appointment today for a checkup, showed up, and got told we couldn't be seen because we don't vax. Great. Guess it doesn't matter anyway, because the nurse checked my insurance and even though I was told it was good till the end of the month, it's canceled. So we're SOL until we can get our new insurance set up here.

 

We've had a few pretty good days in a row. Some tough moments, but overall decent days. He's been happily doing his schoolwork, actually retaining things we teach him, and even eating well. I don't know what's changed, but I'm not complaining! We got some new school supplies today that he's really excited about, so hopefully we have another good day tomorrow too. Something that seems to have helped is that we've started doing week-long units and connecting all of our activities to the same theme. Last week it was George Washington and this week it's farms. Totally random units, but he likes them.

 

One thing we're still having trouble with is that he seems to get REALLY cranky when we try to do stuff with him. Like yesterday we took him to the park for an hour because he'd done his school stuff so well and he whined about everything the rest of the night. He does that a lot and it really makes us not want to take him places because he gets so cranky and mean after.

 

Thanks for all the input from everyone. Here's hoping things continue to get better.



I like the idea of a unit of inquiry.  This is a good way for kids to make links and seethe value/purpose what they are doing beyond the gold stars and A+s. (Not that you do that at home, but it's basically what we do in schools is all)

 

DS gets cranky after doing something fun.  I try to remind DH who gets personally offended by it that it is not a negative thing, he is not being ungrateful (which is what it feels like) but rather exressing his disappointment that life is now going back to normal.  Come to think of it, it got particularly bad right before and right after the baby came...now, after the first year he has settled down a lot. It also helps to make sure that park outings and other adventures always include a snack.  Maybe (for my DS I mean...just processing as I type) it's that it was such a fun escape from the everyday, that it feels really hard to go back to the reality of being a big brother, with big responsibilities, and big chores and big...everything.  It was just so nice to be free and little and the only important one that going back is like a little heart breaking...Good to have done the outing, but hard to readjust.  It really does get better though.  The whininess won't last forever, especially if the outings are not infrequent or only linked to "good" behavior or schooling achievments.  When he learns to trust that he can go again tomorrow, or the next day...this was one thing I think helped DS to remind him that we can go again tomorrow, or any day at all. 

 

I am SO sorry to hear you are without insurance and that the clinics are not being helpful.  The healthcare in the US is just abysmal without private care.  I hope you get what you need, soon.  That must be very scary to be expecting a little one and not have medical insurance there...no wonder everyone is a little on edge at home. hug2.gif

 

I hope things keep getting better with your DS! 

 

Have you tried the high protein breakfast thing?  wait...was that this thread?

 

 

 


Rebekah - mom to Ben 03/05 and Emily 01/10, a peace educator, and a veg*n and wife to Jamie.
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#45 of 51 Old 04-15-2011, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I guess I spoke too soon. Today has been a total NIGHTMARE. He keeps whining about every single thing. We started using the new books that we got him. He was oh-so-excited to use them, until it came to actually DOING something. He starts slumping over sideways, rolling on the floor, saying he can't do it, he's hungry, he has to pee, whatever. And this is after less than 5 minutes. It's not like I'm trying to get him to work for hours on end! The only thing we've gotten accomplished today was a set of 10 math problems that involved nothing more complicated than coloring circles. And even that had to be done in two sessions because he started whining and rolling on the floor halfway through. He uses one of those tables where you sit on the floor and it goes over your lap, so he's constantly laying down and rolling around instead of sitting up where he can see his book. He does it when he's standing too - if I try to talk to him, he'll lean against the nearest surface and start slumping down. If we're sitting on the couch together, he ends up slumped away from me so he can't see the book.

 

I've tried various types of activities to keep him interested - hands-on, drawing, videos, reading, whatever, it all ends the same way.

 

ETA: The kid's just trying to prove me wrong now, LOL. He's been in a great mood for the last 90 minutes and has been gladly doing any schoolwork I ask him to do. Gotta appreciate what you can get, right?


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#46 of 51 Old 04-15-2011, 02:44 PM
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It sounds like a classic case of a child-parent power struggle.  He's demonstrating his own power by showing that you can't make him do stuff.  I know it seems counter-intuitive, but a lot of the time these issues are dramatically less severe with other adults.  He knows you're a safe adult who loves him unconditionally, so he feels really comfortable acting out with you.

 

 He might act that way in school with a teacher as well, which is why I would never recommend school to a parent who had posted your exact problem in the homeschooling forum.  But since this is the childhood forum, I hope I won't offend you if I say that he might be much more academically productive with an unfamiliar adult as a teacher and peers around to model learning behavior.  

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#47 of 51 Old 04-15-2011, 05:05 PM
 
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It sounds like a classic case of a child-parent power struggle.  He's demonstrating his own power by showing that you can't make him do stuff.  I know it seems counter-intuitive, but a lot of the time these issues are dramatically less severe with other adults.  He knows you're a safe adult who loves him unconditionally, so he feels really comfortable acting out with you.

 

 He might act that way in school with a teacher as well, which is why I would never recommend school to a parent who had posted your exact problem in the homeschooling forum.  But since this is the childhood forum, I hope I won't offend you if I say that he might be much more academically productive with an unfamiliar adult as a teacher and peers around to model learning behavior.  


Wow - this is exactly what I was thinking and was about to post!

 

Along those lines... is he involved in any kind of "extracurricular" (ie. not with you) classes?  Music, dance, swimming, sports, anything like that?  If so I'd look at his behaviour in that environment.  If he acts much the same way as he does at home I'd be thinking along the lines of some of the medical/SN issues that pps have suggested.  If none of the "problematic" at-home behaviours go on in an away-from-home setting (or are greatly reduced) then I'd be inclined to chalk this up as more of a power struggle issue (perhaps coupled with boredom and/or craving more social time).

 

As for the behaviour post-outings it could be a matter of over-stimulation, disappointment at the ending of the outing, hunger or tiredness.  Do you notice a difference at different times of day (ex. he does fine on outings earlier in the day, but if it's closer to bedtime he is more tired and gets more cranky)?

 


Kate, mom to 7 year old Djuna and 4 yr old Alden. Missing our good friend Hal the cat who died June 2, 2010

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#48 of 51 Old 04-15-2011, 05:31 PM
 
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A couple of my kids are similar.  You have to find something he does care about and take it away until he decides to be more cooperative and motivated.  Tell him the minimum he is expected to do (help clean up, homeschool lessons etc) and don't let him near video games (or whatever it is he does care about) until those things are done --without whining or giving you a hard time.  VG have to be "earned" on a daily basis in my house by helping out with household chores and completing homeschool.  Anyone who refuses, doesn't play VG or watch TV (which they're not allowed to do until 4pm on weekdays).  This worked really well with my kids, I hardly ever get an attitude from them and they are great with helping out.

 

Sending him to school could just turn into another battle, dragging him out of bed, forcing him to get dressed, forcing him to do homework.  Chances are it will be worse than homeschool, I know with us it was, because on top of all their other issues, they were exhausted and stressed from a full day of school.

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#49 of 51 Old 04-15-2011, 05:35 PM
 
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OP, is your son getting some good physical exertion?  If he spends 15 (or so)  minutes really playing hard, getting his heart and lungs pumping, brain buzzing, he might then be able to focus on a lesson.  Running, kicking a ball, climbing something, swinging, riding a bike/tricycle/scooter in circles.  Do you have a Wii? Could he do Wii Sports or Fit and really play hard before he sits down? 

 

 

Quote:
Along those lines... is he involved in any kind of "extracurricular" (ie. not with you) classes?  Music, dance, swimming, sports, anything like that?  If so I'd look at his behaviour in that environment.  If he acts much the same way as he does at home I'd be thinking along the lines of some of the medical/SN issues that pps have suggested.  If none of the "problematic" at-home behaviours go on in an away-from-home setting (or are greatly reduced) then I'd be inclined to chalk this up as more of a power struggle issue (perhaps coupled with boredom and/or craving more social time).

 

 

I was thinking the same thing. 


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#50 of 51 Old 04-18-2011, 01:29 PM
 
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It seems to me like he just wants more control over his life. I am not a teacher, but I want to be one. I'm an TA for a Montessori school in Idaho and have had a lot of training and knowledge on the motives of the child.

 

Let him know what his choices are and let him make one. Don't be emotionally attached to any of them. Accept him how he is. Let there be natural and logical consequences for each choice, ei - you all get so much time for a meal and at the end of such time, the food is taken away. If he doesn't eat while he has food, he can wait til the next meal time. There is much great info out there on this kind of parenting lifestyle. I know a great teacher who I've gotten to know and have learned a lot from and she can definitely help you, I think. This is her site : http://martimonroe.blogspot.com

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#51 of 51 Old 04-18-2011, 10:02 PM
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Whatever else you do, please don't take food away from a child who is still eating, even if he is eating slowly.  You don't have to sit there and watch him.  You can leave the table and go on with your day.  Children are not puppies.  Especially when they are having difficulty with motor coordination and concentration, eating can take a while.  It's not natural or logical to give a kid a deadline for mealtime.  

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