How early is too early for older kids bedtimes? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 47 Old 07-31-2012, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm not sure if this should go in nighttime parenting or here, but honestly nighttime parenting looks like a lot of under-3 year old questions, and I'm really wondering more about older kids--mine are 8 and nearly 5. 

 

During the summer, we've been doing 8:30 or 9 for bedtime and asleep by 9 or 9:30. But I've inadvertently tested out a super early bedtime followed by a super late one, and found that they're really well behaved and chipper with an early one. They don't sleep in unless they're sick, so they always get up at 7am regardless.


After the early bedtime... they were fantastic. Even in a crazy environment, they were cooperative and polite, moreso than usual, and they are usually good kids. But with a late bedtime, they were crazy squabbling meltdowns. They're in bed now, and were fine with this, both saying they're tired, and that they like to look at books, but I don't think they'll fall asleep for a while. 

 

So now I'm wondering about the fall. We don't get home from 2 activities until 7pm, although I could feed them dinner at 5 before the activities and then a bedtime snack at 7pm. I wonder if a 7:30 bedtime would be a good idea. It means we won't have family dinner often, since DH often doesn't get home until 7. But we usually have family breakfast together anyway.

 

Do you think 7:30 might be possible or is it just too early for school-age kids' bedtimes? 


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#2 of 47 Old 07-31-2012, 04:16 PM
 
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i dont see why you cant have a 7:30 bedtime.

 

but in your case i am wondering if half an hour is enough time to settle down and do bedtime.

 

do you mean start brushing teeth and all that at 7:30 or in bed by 7:30.

 

i know for my dd she can start her bedtime routine half an hour after we get home - but she cant come home and immediately start getting ready for bed. she needs to have her down time at home doing whatever she wants to do. 


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#3 of 47 Old 07-31-2012, 04:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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i dont see why you cant have a 7:30 bedtime.

 

but in your case i am wondering if half an hour is enough time to settle down and do bedtime.

 

do you mean start brushing teeth and all that at 7:30 or in bed by 7:30.

 

i know for my dd she can start her bedtime routine half an hour after we get home - but she cant come home and immediately start getting ready for bed. she needs to have her down time at home doing whatever she wants to do. 

Good point. Maybe bed routine-- teeth, vitamins, etc. at 7:30.


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#4 of 47 Old 07-31-2012, 05:11 PM
 
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My son is 5 and his bedtime is 6.30! That's when we go upstairs. It often takes a long time for him to fall asleep but that happens if he goes to bed late too. It's just him. I think that during the school year 7.30 is perfect. The older one could always read for a while in bed if he/she can't sleep. 

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#5 of 47 Old 07-31-2012, 05:51 PM
 
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I personally think 7:30 is too early for the older child unless he truly needs that much sleep. If my dd went to bed that early even at five she would be up at or before 6 in the morning. I suggest keeping track of his natural wake up time right now and basing bedtime on that. I would personally stick with 8:00 or 8:30 if it currently works and wake up time is going to be the same.
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#6 of 47 Old 08-01-2012, 09:10 PM
 
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We target my 8yo to be in bed by 8pm even in the summer.  Lately we haven't gotten either of them (8 & 3) into bed before 8:30/9pm.  If I saw a positive behavior change with an earlier bedtime, I would do it.


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#7 of 47 Old 08-01-2012, 09:17 PM
 
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We aim for in bed and asleep no later than 730 on school nights.  My oldest is 7 and he does really good with this schedule.  He needs a good 11-12 hours sleep or he is very difficult to get up and not a very happy person.  They have to get up at 615am every morning in order to get ready, have breakfast and be at school by 730 so it really doesn't matter if they wake up at 6 because we are already about to get up.  I've found that if they are able to get enough sleep, they wake up on their own(vs me waking them up) and are much more agreeable in the morning.


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#8 of 47 Old 08-02-2012, 10:09 AM
 
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If your experiment was only one night, a super early bed time might not work sustainably. It could be your 5 yo needs 11 hours of sleep so having him in bed at 7:30 and asleep by 8 will work well. Your 8 yo might be growing out of needing as much sleep and might have trouble falling asleep after a few nights in a row of 11 hours. It depends on the kid, of course. Sleep needs can vary widely.

 

My ds always needs time to unwind after getting home, too...

 

You can probably do a flexible schedule of aiming for an early bedtime on the nights you don't have activities and a slightly later one on activity nights. I'm all about kids being well rested. They are so much happier!


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#9 of 47 Old 08-02-2012, 10:39 AM
 
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My boys are 9 and 6. And we homeschool, so our morning schedule is maybe a tad more lenient than a public schooled child's would be.

 

However - from 2yo, when we started transitioning them to their own bed in their own room, their bedtime routine started at 830pm. Brush teeth, jammies on, pick out a movie, lay in bed with the movie until asleep or movie is over, then go to sleep. And it doesn't matter if it's in the summer or during the school year, this is their bedtime.

 

From day 1, my 9yo would be asleep by 930-10pm and be awake early, before 8am. And now, he's often awake before 7am. Odd child. 

 

The 6yo tends to go to sleep later, about 1030-11pm, and his perfect time to wake up is between 9 and 10am. That is not always ok, since we often have places to be, but that's his "life is perfect" wake up time. 

 

They have an alarm in their room that goes off at 8am, which is when they need to start getting ready for the day. Like I said, my 9yo is often up long before the alarm, and my 6yo would rather sleep through it. :)

 

Some kids need more sleep. This works out well for my kids for most days. (Long days at the race track, or swim meets, or at the beach tend to make bodies tired no matter their age.)  :)


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#10 of 47 Old 08-02-2012, 10:42 AM
 
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You can probably do a flexible schedule of aiming for an early bedtime on the nights you don't have activities and a slightly later one on activity nights. I'm all about kids being well rested. They are so much happier!

nod.gif this is what we do too. friday and saturday nights dd goes to bed at around midnight and gets up whenever she wants to. (in her defense she is a night owl, except aaargh she is up at 7 when on most school days she struggles to get up at 7. 

 

once she returns from her vacation we will have to change her summer sleep pattern to get ready for start of school. let me tell you i am not looking forward to that at all. 


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#11 of 47 Old 08-02-2012, 10:47 AM
 
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Mine are a lot older than yours now but I have to say, for the most part, when kids go to sleep later, they still get up early and they do not end up needing less sleep (because they're growing so much). I have teens and preteens and when they are home (and not having a sleepover) they are lying in bed at 8 (8:30 at the latest) and can read or draw quietly until 9. When they stay up late we all pay dearly and I just don't think it's healthy for physical growth, brain development, and their immune system. But that is just my opinion and what works best for my family.

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#12 of 47 Old 08-03-2012, 07:02 AM
 
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Mine start the bedtime routine between 7-7:30 (depending on whether they're having a shower that night - we do every other day).  They are 7 and 9.  They are generally in bed by 8pm.  I notice a HUGE difference in their behavior when they go to be later than that.  They get mad sometimes, because they know their friends stay up until 9 or 10 or later (they can hear them playing outside).  And it's been more difficult in the summer because it's still light out at bedtime.  I've been letting them stay up later because of this, and have found that 1) they STILL get up at the same time in the morning as when they have an early bed time; and 2) they are monsters all day when they haven't gotten enough sleep.

 

This is just my children, and every child is different.  I notice a difference between my children, one of whom pops out of bed at 6a.m. without fail, regardless of when she went to sleep, and the other who will sleep in or sneak a nap if he's been up late.

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#13 of 47 Old 08-03-2012, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Mine start the bedtime routine between 7-7:30 (depending on whether they're having a shower that night - we do every other day).  They are 7 and 9.  They are generally in bed by 8pm.  I notice a HUGE difference in their behavior when they go to be later than that.  They get mad sometimes, because they know their friends stay up until 9 or 10 or later (they can hear them playing outside).  And it's been more difficult in the summer because it's still light out at bedtime.  I've been letting them stay up later because of this, and have found that 1) they STILL get up at the same time in the morning as when they have an early bed time; and 2) they are monsters all day when they haven't gotten enough sleep.

 

This is pretty much what I've been noticing. I don't think the 8 year old actually needs as much sleep as she got that one night, but I think she needs more than she was getting before that. Staggering bedtime is hard right now as they share a room, but we're moving in a month or so and each should have their own space.


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#14 of 47 Old 08-05-2012, 05:49 PM
 
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So, just a funny update. Last night I offered for my 14 year old to stay up and watch a movie with me. I said if we started it right at 8 he'd still get to bed at 9:30. He said no, because he wouldn't be able to fall straight asleep after and then it wouldnt' be enough sleep for him! lol He's a wise young man. ;)

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#15 of 47 Old 08-05-2012, 06:19 PM
 
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So, just a funny update. Last night I offered for my 14 year old to stay up and watch a movie with me. I said if we started it right at 8 he'd still get to bed at 9:30. He said no, because he wouldn't be able to fall straight asleep after and then it wouldnt' be enough sleep for him! lol He's a wise young man. wink1.gif


I've found teens need much more sleep than elementary school kids. My 12yr old sleeps as much as my toddler. Puberty really upped her seep needs.

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#16 of 47 Old 08-06-2012, 11:14 PM
 
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I've found teens need much more sleep than elementary school kids. My 12yr old sleeps as much as my toddler. Puberty really upped her seep needs.

yup. there is quite a bit of research that agrees with you, the reason why many school districts have thought about starting high school an hour later... but i dont know any district who has acted on that yet. 

 

some high schools in my area start class at 7:30 am which i find really ridiculous. 


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#17 of 47 Old 08-07-2012, 08:08 AM
 
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Our district has a later start for high schools. I think it's 8:45. Not sure. It's freaking 7:50 (supposed to be there by 7:30 for morning assembly) for elementary school which I find ridiculous because I have night owl children.

 

My kids, given free rein and enough stimulation (like for a sleep-over), will literally stay up until 4 or 5 in the morning. My 8 yr old is more likely to do this than my 11 yr old, but they've both been up (and happy as larks) until 2am or so for New Year's Eve parties, etc. On their own w/o a sleepover or party they would easily stay up until 11 or 12 before getting tired. They're just wired this way. They never got up early as babies or toddlers, either. I always heard about those babies that woke up at 5am ready for the day. Nope. Not my kids. Made it easy when they were little, but sure makes getting ready for school tough now. They would naturally sleep until 8:30 or 9 every morning if they could. 

 

I think it's genetic. I'm a bit of a nightowl. Midnight is a good bedtime for me. DH is a total nightowl. He will usually stay up until 1, 2, or 3 am. He just doesn't need much sleep. He gets about 5 or 6 hrs and is set. I need about 8. 

 

So, a 7:30 bedtime would absolutely never ever ever fly for my 8 yr old. There is no time since she's been born that a 7:30 bedtime would work for her. However, each kid is individual and if it works for you and yours more power to you!

 

We usually aim for 9:30 and end up at 10 in this house. They get up about 7 during the school year so that's still 9-9.5 hrs of sleep.


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#18 of 47 Old 08-07-2012, 11:14 AM
 
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I've found teens need much more sleep than elementary school kids. My 12yr old sleeps as much as my toddler. Puberty really upped her seep needs.

 

Teens tend to start producing melatonin later at night (after 10pm) and continue producing it later in the morning (after 7am).


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#19 of 47 Old 08-08-2012, 06:52 AM
 
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After the early bedtime... they were fantastic. Even in a crazy environment, they were cooperative and polite, moreso than usual, and they are usually good kids. But with a late bedtime, they were crazy squabbling meltdowns. They're in bed now, and were fine with this, both saying they're tired, and that they like to look at books, but I don't think they'll fall asleep for a while. 

 

So now I'm wondering about the fall. We don't get home from 2 activities until 7pm, although I could feed them dinner at 5 before the activities and then a bedtime snack at 7pm. I wonder if a 7:30 bedtime would be a good idea. It means we won't have family dinner often, since DH often doesn't get home until 7. But we usually have family breakfast together anyway.

 

Do you think 7:30 might be possible or is it just too early for school-age kids' bedtimes? 

 

My children are that age and 7:30 has always been the school year bed time; we try to keep sleep/wake times within an hour for summer as ds take medication that can interfere with his sleep if it's taken too late. It's actually not quite enough for younger dd who needs more sleep but it's rare that we manage to get her in bed by 7p.m. Ds needs less sleep so we have a sunset dimmer for his lamp and he reads for 30 minutes. We have one day a week where we don't get home until 6:30ish so bedtime may get pushed to 8p.m. We also see other children out later (which mine complain about); I don't know how they manage considering that most of them take the bus and have to be at the bus stop at 6:45 a.m sleeping.gif. Dh is in school and does his homework when he gets home so we usually only have him at dinner on the weekends and at the family breakfast on Sundays.


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#20 of 47 Old 08-08-2012, 09:14 PM
 
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I know he isn't always popular around here, but we loved Dr. Weisman's Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child for our post colicy son, and it has been a constant reference book in our house on sleep/behavior.

The reason I bring it up is that a crucial point in his book is that kids just need far more sleep than they generally get, and that common bedtimes have more to do with kid activities/parent work schedules than actual sleep needs of children.

So with that in mind, we start bedtime at 7:15 aiming to have everyone under covers/lights out at 7:45 (after jamies, teeth and 3 books).  That was our routine for our 4 year old.  We have had 3 different 5-6 year olds move into/out of our house (fostering) and they have all THRIVED on this routine.  In addition, we put everyone down for a nap/rest time around 12:30-1 till 3:00.  Again, all 3 older kids have napped during this time, and still gone to bed at the early time (waking around 7). 
 

Our son's particular needs require we be pretty strict on this routine, and only fluctuate for very special occasions, but in general, kids have responded positively to the routine and added sleep.  I am always amazed at the improvement of behavior (obviously could have more to do with just sleep).

 

So, I am all for early bed times.

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#21 of 47 Old 08-09-2012, 01:49 PM
 
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I know he isn't always popular around here, but we loved Dr. Weisman's Healthy Sleep Habits Happy Child for our post colicy son, and it has been a constant reference book in our house on sleep/behavior.

The reason I bring it up is that a crucial point in his book is that kids just need far more sleep than they generally get, and that common bedtimes have more to do with kid activities/parent work schedules than actual sleep needs of children.

So with that in mind, we start bedtime at 7:15 aiming to have everyone under covers/lights out at 7:45 (after jamies, teeth and 3 books).  That was our routine for our 4 year old.  We have had 3 different 5-6 year olds move into/out of our house (fostering) and they have all THRIVED on this routine.  In addition, we put everyone down for a nap/rest time around 12:30-1 till 3:00.  Again, all 3 older kids have napped during this time, and still gone to bed at the early time (waking around 7). 
 

Our son's particular needs require we be pretty strict on this routine, and only fluctuate for very special occasions, but in general, kids have responded positively to the routine and added sleep.  I am always amazed at the improvement of behavior (obviously could have more to do with just sleep).

 

So, I am all for early bed times.

 

 

Exactly the same here, except we do it with two almost-7 year olds.

 

They wake at 6:45 and have for over 4 years (DH gets up for work around that time and now they have to get up for school) They go to bed at 7:30/7:45 (lights out). We, too, do a rest time at 1-2. They no longer sleep, but somehow this break in our day allows them to 'reset' if it was a busy morning or they are crabby. It also lets me recharge for the afternoon.

 Sometimes they fall asleep right away, other times they listen to music softly until they do fall asleep. 
They both wake naturally 90% of the time before 6:45 but do not get out of bed (we have a nightlight that comes on at that time that tells them that if they are awake they may get our of bed).

 

Overall, I really really notice a behavior downslide with less sleep.  Statistically that age range needs 10-11.5 hours and since they can not get to school later and have to get up, we make sure that the bedtime allows for the sleep they need.

 

For families that have a later bedtime, great : do what works for your family. Later starting schools would allow for later wake-up times! Our area has 1/2 Elem. with 8 am start and 1/2 Elem. schools with a 9 am start. Works well for nightowls/early birds and fits the majority of work schedules (it will never fit all!), though it is more due to bussing conflicts w/ HS and MS. I know people that purposely do school of choice to get into early/late start Elem. school to fit their family schedules better.

 

Unfortunately, all the MS and HS start early- at 7:15 and 7:45. Way too early according to research and teen sleep needs!!

 

But if kids have to get up early, bedtimes should allow for the age appropriate range of sleep (both by our Pedi and the various other health specilists we have worked with over the years).

 

We keep the same schedule year-round.

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#22 of 47 Old 08-09-2012, 02:03 PM
 
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*sigh* all this is soooo difficult when you have a night owl

 

and a stubborn child

 

left to her own devices dd would wake up between 9 and 10 during weekdays, and 7 during weekends. but no. she has to get up at 5:45 on weekdays.

 

she goes to bed at 10 with no problems. anything before that she has such a hard time with. and she'll stay in bed but we awake till 10 pm anyways. *sigh*


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#23 of 47 Old 08-10-2012, 10:24 AM
 
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*sigh* all this is soooo difficult when you have a night owl

 

and a stubborn child

 

left to her own devices dd would wake up between 9 and 10 during weekdays, and 7 during weekends. but no. she has to get up at 5:45 on weekdays.

 

she goes to bed at 10 with no problems. anything before that she has such a hard time with. and she'll stay in bed but we awake till 10 pm anyways. *sigh*

 

Do you think she gets enough sleep? That's less than 8 hours. I don't mean this snarkily, it's a genuine question.

 

I think that while there are kids (maybe meemee's for instance) who really don't need much sleep, I think that a lot of kids are walking around chronically sleep deprived. This includes my DS who is 5. He gets 10-11 hours a night but I think he really needs 12. I do everything I can to get him more sleep but he fights it like mad. It's been that way since he was a newborn. 'He will sleep when he's tired' just doesn't apply to him. DD, on the other hand, will take as much sleep as she needs which is usually about 14 hours in a 24 period. She's 2. 

 

I know kids who go to bed late and don't nap. They are pale, with circles under their eyes. They fall asleep in a 5 minute car ride at 5pm. To me, that child needs more sleep. Their parents may think they are 'night owls' but I think they are just running on adrenaline by 10pm.

 

I'm not aiming this comment to anyone on this thread because I obviously don't know your child. I'm just speaking from my own observations. 

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#24 of 47 Old 08-10-2012, 10:35 AM
 
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I think generally earlier bedtime = more sleep overall = better. But it comes to what and your kid agree to. Try letting him/her read for a bit in bed immediately after hte bedtime. That can help with the transition.
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#25 of 47 Old 08-10-2012, 01:41 PM
 
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I wonder if you have to work full time so your kids get home around 6pm, then they go to bed at 7 or 8pm, how do you guys have family time? Within 2 hours, they have to have dinner, bedtime routines, so basically they have only 1 hour to talk or play at home.

My DD goes to bed around 9pm, I want her to sleep earlier but she is almost 5 and very shy, I usually try to talk to her about life & school so she can be less shy.

She's very attached to me, now if she stays at school all day, but have only 2-3 hours at home, do you think that long school time but short family time can make her more shy and closed up?

What is your suggestion about after-school activities regarding her shyness and going to bed early?

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#26 of 47 Old 08-10-2012, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Jessica--Funny enough, my shy kid is more outgoing with strangers when she's had too little sleep. It's kind of funny, because DH and I joke that her sleep deprivation is a little like many people are under the influence of a little alcohol. It's not something we encourage, though, and it's fleeting. She can run a day or so like that, then she crashes into bed early the next night.

 

We homeschool, with co-op programs twice a week, but we also do a whole lot of activities, especially performing arts ones that run until later than I'd like. We end up having time together in the morning as a family rather than at night, which honestly, is much better for DS at least, because he is a morning person (only one in the family who is, though). 

 

My plan that I'm trying now is to start getting the nearly-5-yr-old ready for bed at 7:30 and asleep by 8. That makes 11 hours of sleep for him, because he's always up at 7. So far, he's okay with this, but if it is 1 minute past 8, or we try to "stay up" and do something like s'mores with the neighbors (last night) at 8pm, thinking a quick s'more, already in pjs, just brush teeth and bed at 8:30... he is a meltdown tantrum nightmare. I'm thinking about pushing it earlier by 1/2 hour, but I wish he would just stay asleep til 7:30am instead, and that would be perfect. I think he also might sleep in a little later in the morning when we move in October because his bedroom will be darker (back of building). 

 

DD is 8, and I think she actually doesn't need as much sleep as DS does, as long as she actually sleeps and doesn't stay up reading til wee hours. I've been getting her ready for bed at 8:30 and asleep by 9, which seems okay with her frequent 7am wakeup, at 10 hours a night, but I know she will sleep in more once she's not sharing a room with her brother in October. When she was the only one in the kid bedroom and DS was cosleeping, she used to sleep 9pm to 9am. Then again, that was 3 years ago when she was 5. 

 

Half hour more for each kid, so 10.5 and 11.5, seems to be an ideal amount for my kids, but I just can't see making bedtime any earlier for now while it's light so late. I do think I'm going to have DH take DD to her ballet class that ends at 7 so that I can be home with DS and put him to bed at 7:30 or 8pm. The rest of our evenings the kids and I can be home by 6, which should help. DH will have to either hurry home earlier or do more breakfast and weekend quality time. 


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#27 of 47 Old 08-10-2012, 02:12 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Jessica1501 View Post

I wonder if you have to work full time so your kids get home around 6pm, then they go to bed at 7 or 8pm, how do you guys have family time? Within 2 hours, they have to have dinner, bedtime routines, so basically they have only 1 hour to talk or play at home.

 

This is my biggest complaint on full day school (last year was our first year of all day 1st grade). There was simply not enough time as a family after we all work/school and eating/basic hygiene.  But, for our family and having kids that really need a good amount of sleep, the  behaviors that pop out when they do not sleep enough are not worth  a later bedtime.

 

I always feel shorted on time. DH even more so since at times he often does not get home until the girls are IN bed.

 

As many nights a week as we can, we eat dinner together, do homework with the girls, read together, and maybe play a game. We make the time we have count as best we can and then try to make weekends all about family. 

 

I work part-time, but DH works full-time + .

 

I cant help with the shy concern, neither of my DDs are shy at all. I do know my girls handle school, new situations, and life in general much better on a full nights sleep (as do I!). We talk in the car, at dinner, before bed. I usually let them play for a bit when they get home before dinner to decompress and just relax.

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#28 of 47 Old 08-11-2012, 11:30 AM
 
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echoing that our son is more outgoing when a little sleep deprived.  Other people think it is cute, but we are in for a melt down when we get home.

 

With my experience,  kids who come to our house are from very poor backgrounds and are often delayed in maturity.  I think their brains/bodies use the extra sleep time to play developmental catch-up, and our son has a very difficult temperament.  He just isn't an easy kid at all.  (I know all kids have their 'things'  many parents who deal with our son agree that he is intensely charming and sweet, but also... not easy.)

Jessica, if your daughter is doing well on the amount of sleep she is going with now, I wouldn't worry about it!  It seems to me that research shows that kids need lots of sleep, but at the same time there are always outliers.  I have a great friend who's son totally stopped napping at 2 and wakes up to play through the night -he's 4 now.  (She has gotten up in the AM to find pillow forts in the living room.  They finally made a rule that if he gets up, he needs to stay in his room to play.)  He does fine during the day;  outgoing, fun, able to learn... even our own son, though he goes to bed at 7:30, some nights he quietly plays in bed till around 9.  Doesn't seem to bother him.

IF you think she needs more sleep, what about picking specific nights that are 'family nights' where the family stays up a little ater and does things together, like play games, watch movies, whatever.  In our house, they would need to be calm things we can do in jammies, but you know your house.   Then she can get more sleep other nights, but has that special time to look forward to.  OR draw out bedtime for that together time;  have some snuggly talking time in bed.

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#29 of 47 Old 08-11-2012, 02:39 PM
 
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Do you think she gets enough sleep? That's less than 8 hours. I don't mean this snarkily, it's a genuine question.

no she doesnt on some nights. she does overall require less sleep.

 

but it doesnt matter when i send her to bed. she CANT fall asleep till 10 pm. unless suddenly on saturday she will sleep most of the day away - catching up on sleep.

 

i wish there was later school. she would do GREAT going to school say at noon rather than at 8 am.

 

left to her biological clock - she gets enough sleep. so holidays are great. trying to set her on a structure, its almost impossible for her to get enough sleep.

 

that is one reason we dont do a lot of structured activiites. she likes her free time to do what she wants. starting 5th grade she needs to 'do' her stuff. after homework and relaxing it doesnt leave her much time.


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#30 of 47 Old 08-16-2012, 12:44 PM
 
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  kids who come to our house are from very poor backgrounds and are often delayed in maturity.  I think their brains/bodies use the extra sleep time to play developmental catch-up

 

I really don't think being poor has anything to do with it. Most children will naturally take ten hours or so of sleep a night and most children desperately need it. We have lived in a few different very bad neighborhoods where everyone is poor and those kids go to bed late. Really late. They're up playing outside in a dangerous neighborhood till well after dark and not one of them got enough sleep in my opinion. My kids were always the freaks going to bed at 8. I have known quite a few kids like your son. They are wired differently to where it's difficult for them to fall asleep and/or stay asleep. It is challenging for the parents for sure. All my kids were like that to an extent. I HAD to lay them on their bellies and lay heavy blankets over them for them to sleep at all when they' were babies and they still take a while to fall asleep. But I don't think you can say it's so simple as kids who are delayed in maturity need more sleep and vice-versa.

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