Disadvantage of early reading when going to K ? - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
Jessica1501's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 167
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Everybody already knows the advantages of early reading, but I am always thinking about how my child will be when she goes to K.

I have a friend whose kid just started his school last week, the kid gets bored and loses concentration because he is taught phonics while he already can read books.

On the other hands, my kid is eager to learn to read and of course early reading has many benefits.

Could you moms tell me some experience about this? How do you and the K teacher help the child to like class?

(Just a side information: my kid's home school has a high ranking in the city so perhaps the teachers have lots of experience about this? )

Thanks moms.

Neera likes this.
Jessica1501 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 10:58 AM
 
rubidoux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,674
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Am I the only one that didn't know that early reading has advantages?  Sheepish.gif  What sorts of things are we talking about?


Jayne, sewing up a storm mama to ds1 9/03, ds2 2/09, and 2 sweet furbabies.

rubidoux is offline  
#3 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
Jessica1501's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 167
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubidoux View Post

Am I the only one that didn't know that early reading has advantages?  Sheepish.gif  What sorts of things are we talking about?


Improving cognition, memory, love of reading, love of learning other things, curiosity, boosting the brain system, etc.

I don't mean to focus on reading and reduce playing time because at this age playing is more important.

I just read your other post, you mentioned that your child is going to Montessori. By the end of PreK, your child will do maths and read well anyway.

This happens to my kid because she learns from school, it's a good school so I don't want to change just because I want to stop her from learning to read.

Jessica1501 is offline  
#4 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 11:48 AM
 
rubidoux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,674
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I am surprised that there are benefits, I guess, because my older one started preschool (same montessori) two weeks before he turned 5.  At that point he had no recognition of written letters at all, had almost no idea about phonics, no writing, I think maybe he could count to ten.  But by the end of that school year he was totally reading, like fairly advanced stuff.  Like, we would read novels to him, but for the first 15 minutes (so 3 or pages) he read to us.  So, it wasn't "age appropriate" stuff.  When we went through that, I was surprised at how fast and easily he caught up.  But I guess because of it, I imagined that kids who learned to read (or whatever skill) late would probably catch up to an age appropriate level pretty quick.  Like, whether they learned at 3 or at 6, at 8 they'd end up in a similar position.  

 

My little guy is only 3 1/2, so I'm not worried about where he is or where he'll go.  I am really interested, though, to see how different it will be given that he's starting so much earlier.  He also doesn't seem nearly as opposed to learning about letters and numbers as my older one was.  He would tune me out immediately if he thought I was going there.  Just hated it!  lol  Now, at 9, you'd never know he was that way though.


Jayne, sewing up a storm mama to ds1 9/03, ds2 2/09, and 2 sweet furbabies.

rubidoux is offline  
#5 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 11:50 AM
 
meemee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Norther California
Posts: 12,620
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessica1501 View Post


Improving cognition, memory, love of reading, love of learning other things, curiosity, boosting the brain system, etc.

are you saying if a child reads at 4 they have this advantage, but if they are a late starter like say first grade they dont have that advantage? i am sorry but your list is v. triggering. a child who reads at 3 is no better than a child who reads at 6 or 7. 

 

boosting the brain system - i just dont get that. i would think everything else but reading would be more important. all you can do with reading is amass a bunch of knowledge. so yeah maybe a 4 year old would know all say the 200+ bones of the body. so what? what does that do to the brain? 

 

boost the brain seems to be a line from those teach baby how to read advertisements. i would say boosting brain would come more with hitting and fights and trying to find things as brains make connections and you have to figure things out. 

 

to me early reading in a regular school setting has far more negatives than positives. the only positive in my mind is the parent can show off that their child can read. 

 

knowing their letters before care - sadly yes is advantagous. at least you wont be labeled the dumb guy and have to deal with self esteem issues. 


 treehugger.gif Co-parent, joy.gifcold.gifbrand new homeschooling middle schoolerjoy.gif, and an attackcat.gif 
meemee is offline  
#6 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 12:19 PM
 
ollyoxenfree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,895
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessica1501 View Post


 

This happens to my kid because she learns from school, it's a good school so I don't want to change just because I want to stop her from learning to read.

 

I'm struggling a little with your question because I'm trying to figure out HOW one would stop a child from learning to read. IME, true early readers seem to acquire the skill naturally and there's not much you can do about it even if you wanted - and I'm not sure why you would want to.

 

I think the disadvantages flow when the adults don't accept and adjust to a child's individual natural pace of learning wherever it falls on the spectrum of normal development.  Most kindergartens have students who span the spectrum from non-readers to fluent and advanced readers. Good kindergarten teachers are able to accommodate them. If a child is bored because s/he can already read, then it's incumbent on the teacher to provide appropriate work for the child. If a child isn't ready yet, then it's incumbent on the teacher to provide good pre-reading support.  Parents should do likewise. 

Jessica1501 likes this.
ollyoxenfree is offline  
#7 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 12:20 PM
 
transylvania_mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: abroad
Posts: 1,048
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)

I'd say, if your dk wants to read, let her. There are so many new and fun things to do in kindergarten besides reading that she won't be bored.

 

Ds also learned to read at 4, mostly by himself. On the other hand he never liked to colour or draw; he refused to let me show him how, but they did a lot of colouring in kindergarten and he liked it. Go figure. shrug.gif He is a self-proclaimed artist right now.
 


caffix.gif

transylvania_mom is offline  
#8 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
Jessica1501's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 167
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Meemee and robidoux totally misunderstood my points.

If you say the kids can read or do math later on anyway, you're totally right.

Scientist proves that the brain will grow to about 80 percent of the adult size by the age of 3 and 90 percent by the age of 5.

I don't mean reading is the only way to get this number, no way! But learning to read at this age is fun, like games (puzzles or something, at least with my kid), not like academic, so it still benefits like many other games. Also, while preschools teach reading and your kids love to learn, they naturally know how to read, why refusing?

Are you gonna switch school just because they teach reading? I believe the answer is no. I like my kid's school because of many things else, but since she can read from playing, not from studying like adults, I like that. I am just concerned about later on in K, and this is my main question. I don't want to discuss or argue about benefits of reading because everybody has different opinions. In my area, there are a lot of learning centers for preschoolers, they teach only math and reading, no way am I going to take my DD there.

Jessica1501 is offline  
#9 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 01:56 PM
 
JudiAU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Where creepy facebook-featured threads can't find me
Posts: 3,605
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)

A good school will address the reading or pre-reading level of all of its students. Many schools groups K-1 together for reading. Some children who are taught to read via a phonics method before school will just leap up a grade level for reading group. However, many children who teach themselves to read don't know any phonics at all and still need to learn them or their reading level is inhibited. A good friend of ours with a self-taught strong reader was really surprised when their very expensive private school made no accomodation for her. But she had no phonics at all and her daughter actually found it useful and interesting. By the end of K, her reading level was up three grades.

JudiAU is offline  
#10 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 02:47 PM
 
puddle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 896
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

My daughter just started kindergarten and has been reading for over 2 years.  It's too soon to say for sure how the year will go, but so far she's really enjoying it.  This week they're learning the letters E and F, which she's known since before she turned 2, but it doesn't seem to phase her.  There are so many other exciting things going on, and DD's school is teaching in a really kinesthetic way so far too, so she likes it so far.  She's known F for years, but never jumped up and drawn one with her whole body, so that's super fun.  If your child is interested in reading, don't hold her back.  If kindergarten really becomes too boring due to her advancedness, you can usually find accommodations to challenge your child.  Besides, some kids are interested in letters and reading years before it all actually clicks into place for them.   
 

puddle is offline  
#11 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 03:34 PM
 
NiteNicole's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 4,580
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)

My daughter was an early reader and continues to read above grade level.  Her teachers have helped her pick books more on her reading level in the library and classroom and recommended books for us at home.  It has not been a DISadvantage in any way at all.

 

mee mee, you're taking this far too personally.  Some things are an advantage, there's just no getting around it.  It's not a quality judgement of THE PERSON. 
 

NiteNicole is offline  
#12 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 03:55 PM
A&A
 
A&A's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 16,184
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)

You could always consider a grade skip.  

 

www.nationdeceived.org


"Our task is not to see the future, but to enable it."
A&A is offline  
#13 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 04:44 PM
 
rubidoux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,674
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I'm sorry!  I did understand you, I just wasn't being terribly responsive to your actual concern.  

 

I also agree that your dd will likely have plenty to do in K even if she already knows how to read.  Maybe you should talk to her teacher about making sure that she's got stuff to read at her own level while the other kids are doing their thing.  


Jayne, sewing up a storm mama to ds1 9/03, ds2 2/09, and 2 sweet furbabies.

rubidoux is offline  
#14 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 05:20 PM
 
MamaPrincess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

That is kind of interesting question because in my area all kids know how to read and pretty well at that entering K.

Phonics though are not a waste of time in my opinion at all as it is an intro to writing, it helps your child to

reverse the process and try to actually build the world from scratch when he decomposes it and sounds the sounds..

the more a child does it the better with writing.

MamaPrincess is offline  
#15 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 05:22 PM
 
~adorkable~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: State Of Bliss
Posts: 4,397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by puddle View Post
There are so many other exciting things going on, and DD's school is teaching in a really kinesthetic way so far too, so she likes it so far.  She's known F for years, but never jumped up and drawn one with her whole body, so that's super fun. 

ok i want to go to your school,  that is great!!!  i am super kinesthetic and although i tested at the very top of most my grades or ever far above it , i struggled thru every grade of school because the just didn't get how kinesthetic kids learn or dont learn. one of my twin is showing strong tendencies towards kinesthetic interactions with his world, it will be a top priority to find a school that fosters him with that.


partners.gif 2twins.gif  So what if I don't fit cleanly into a defined parenting style, my kids don't fit into a personality archetype either!

 
~adorkable~ is offline  
#16 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 05:24 PM
 
MamaPrincess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 88
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

also..

I would think that nowdays a child would need to try reaaaaaaaaaaaaly hard not to read before going to K if

a child watches any tv. EAch and every program teaches a kid to read, a child is exposed to written

text all the time so it would be highly unnatural process actually protecting a child from reading

prior to going to K.

Children in K and first are on very different levels, one is great at math other great at reading

another at spelling another is great writer.. and that all levels out..

the trick is for each child to develop social and attention skills to sit through what a child

already knows.. it will be happening through the whole school life.

sometimes we all got easy grade as we knew something and other times we had to

hit the books.

MamaPrincess is offline  
#17 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 05:39 PM
 
~adorkable~'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: State Of Bliss
Posts: 4,397
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

you would be surpassed at the lengths some folks do in fact goto to not expose their pre k kids to the written word. i dont understand it but have been around a handful of parents that are in that category, including a family member with her child.


partners.gif 2twins.gif  So what if I don't fit cleanly into a defined parenting style, my kids don't fit into a personality archetype either!

 
~adorkable~ is offline  
#18 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 07:25 PM
 
SweetSilver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Westfarthing
Posts: 5,227
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree View Post

 

I think the disadvantages flow when the adults don't accept and adjust to a child's individual natural pace of learning wherever it falls on the spectrum of normal development.  Most kindergartens have students who span the spectrum from non-readers to fluent and advanced readers. Good kindergarten teachers are able to accommodate them. If a child is bored because s/he can already read, then it's incumbent on the teacher to provide appropriate work for the child. If a child isn't ready yet, then it's incumbent on the teacher to provide good pre-reading support.  Parents should do likewise. 

My girls are homeschooled, so I answer not as a parent of a kindergartener, but as a former kindergartener myself.  The statement I bolded above hit it right on the nail.  I knew how to read at 4 and knew how to read quite well in kindy, but back then (1974) it was pretty basic pre-reading skills done in a circle: pointing out the window that had a sign saying "window", a lot of singing alphabet songs (and other singing--my teacher played guitar) and lots of storytime. Kindy was filled with other activities, so the gap in reading skills was not troublesome, though it was baffling.  I think kindy then is more like preschool now.

 

First grade was a different story.  Sitting at desks instead of in circles, I was so far past all the other kids in reading (even though I was the youngest in the class) that I was sent, lonely and confused, to the library, and I did my best.  I definitely had that teacher who didn't know how to accommodate me.

 

I think that that is the only real drawback.  And considering this disparity mostly disappeared by 3rd grade or so, I can't really say it had a particular advantage, either.  I don't think there is an inherent, biological advantage to reading early.  (Waldorf philosophy addresses "crystallization" and "expansiveness" of children's brains in respect to what the schools teach and do not teach at certain ages.  I point this out simply to show that it is not just my personal opinion.)   Reading for children is fairly recent in human history, so if there are any advantages to reading early it is because in the past few years we have placed great importance for it, thinking that it confers real advantages.  


"Let me see you stripped down to the bone. Let me hear you speaking just for me."
SweetSilver is offline  
#19 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 07:36 PM
 
LynnS6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pacific NW longing for the Midwest
Posts: 12,446
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)

Read Einstein Never Used Flashcards.

 

If your child wants to learn to read early and does so organically, I don't think there's much downside. However, if YOU want your child to learn to read early, then there can be. Preschoolers need lots of play time. They do not need to be learning phonics or sight words. There's good research to show that kids who are pushed hard academically in preschool (having to do worksheets, sit and read, etc.) end up not liking school as much as they're older (2nd-3rd grade). In addition, kids who weren't pushed as hard  usually catch up by 2nd or 3rd grade. AND the kids who had a more play based preschool experience are more curious and have a greater set of experiences to apply their knowledge to.

 

There's a big difference between an child who is gifted and is driven to learn skills early and a child, however bright, who is pushed to them.

 

My daughter said she wanted to learn to read when she was 3 (because her big brother was in 1st grade and had to read out loud as homework). We got a few Bob books from the library, and she tried a few and lost interest. She expressed interest again at age 4, and started to memorize books to pretend she could read. Sometime before her 5th birthday, she could read. By the end of the summer before she started K, she was reading short chapter books. I still sent her to a largely play based kindergarten. It was hands down the best experience for her because there was so much more to the day than phonics. And she was still reading Harry Potter by the end of first grade.

 

My other child was not an early reader. He is a different kind of learner. For him, having the experience of a play based kindergarten was crucial for his social development and for giving him a range of experiences. He actively refused to learn to read until 1st grade. Once he started reading, he took off really quickly. At 11, he's got dynamite language skills (he's really good with puns, for example), and well above average reading skills.

 

Really in terms of my children, I don't see a huge advantage for the early reader vs. the averaged age reader.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessica1501 View Post

Meemee and robidoux totally misunderstood my points.

If you say the kids can read or do math later on anyway, you're totally right.

Scientist proves that the brain will grow to about 80 percent of the adult size by the age of 3 and 90 percent by the age of 5.

 

Yep. So? Bigger does not mean better for human brains. Really. It's all about the connections that are formed.

 

Just because that's the brain grows doesn't mean that it won't grow if you didn't teach your child to read. It will grow in many areas. You know what one of the most important predictors of academic success is? Understanding the concepts. It's not early reading. It's not early math. It's being able to understand what people are talking about. Since most children are physical learners, being engaged in DOING something is much more important than learning to read. As my kids get older, the experiences we have together are leading to that understanding.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessica1501 View Post

I don't mean reading is the only way to get this number, no way! But learning to read at this age is fun, like games (puzzles or something, at least with my kid), not like academic, so it still benefits like many other games. Also, while preschools teach reading and your kids love to learn, they naturally know how to read, why refusing?

Are you gonna switch school just because they teach reading? I believe the answer is no. I like my kid's school because of many things else, but since she can read from playing, not from studying like adults, I like that. I am just concerned about later on in K, and this is my main question. I don't want to discuss or argue about benefits of reading because everybody has different opinions. In my area, there are a lot of learning centers for preschoolers, they teach only math and reading, no way am I going to take my DD there.

 

Yes, I would have. Because if they're teaching reading, what other experiences is your child missing out on? Because they're missing out on something in that time that's devoted to reading in preschool. That's not time I want my children to miss.

dejagerw likes this.

Lynnteapot2.GIF, academicreading.gif,geek.gif wife, WOHM  to T jog.gif(4/01) and M whistling.gif (5/04)
LynnS6 is offline  
#20 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 07:49 PM
 
dovey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 519
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
you would be surpassed at the lengths some folks do in fact goto to not expose their pre k kids to the written word. i dont understand it but have been around a handful of parents that are in that category, including a family member with her child.

 

I can understand their point of view, although my 6 year old non-reader and I do a little reading practice together.  (She is homeschooled.) She has an older brother who learned to read at age 6.  I did specifically teach him.  He did not really teach himself.  When he learned to read, it was a huge developmental turning point in his life.  He stopped most imaginative play and began a process of constantly reading books - learning lots of interesting ideas, experiencing literature for himself, figuring out how to write sentences based on the cadences of what he had read, learning math from books - basically, he took off into an intellectual mode of thought and never looked back to early childhood. 

 

The developmental period of creative and imaginative play is not a phase to be hurried through.  It is important in its own right as well as helping the child develop his/her motor skills, social skills, and the ability to imagine and create detailed ideas.  It makes sense to help a child work through this phase without a lot distractions from screens or the written word.  I sometimes feel that I rushed my son through this phase, and I regret it. 

dovey is offline  
#21 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 08:05 PM
 
meemee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Norther California
Posts: 12,620
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessica1501 View Post

Meemee and robidoux totally misunderstood my points.

 

Are you gonna switch school just because they teach reading? I believe the answer is no. 

actually yes i did. i did not want dd's ps/dc experience in any form to be about academics. her ps DID do some starting after easter to prepare those who were going to go to K. just alphabets. however those who were early readers they did keep their level books so they could enjoy them. instead they had such great art and science experience curriculum that school has never lived upto what a great ps/dc dd had. 

 

trying to get kids to 'read' as fun i still find work. not fun. just the same as i dislike educational toys. trying to introduce 'unfun' things in a fun way. in my books - rather like bribing. perhaps i am a bit radical here. no. no. no. didnt want that. dd was interested in the human body. i got her all she wanted. i did not introduce the human body through toys hoping she would be interested. she had enough on her plate that she was curious about. i didnt need to introduce anything to totally overwhelm her. that's how i see educational toys or fun reading as. 

 

however what is the definition of reading. if introducing alphabets - yeah i can understand. at 4 to get kids ready for K.

 

like i pointed out in my previous post - yes there is an advantage to kids knowing the alphabet and writing their name - even if it is in the form of drawing and not in teh form of writing their name as a connection of alphabets.

 

i was. VERY involved with volunteering in dd's K class. we tried lots of fun ways to teach kids who dont know the alphabet. did they suffer? no. however they could if they are still struggling in 2nd grade. 

 

however under no circumstances will regular public K or 1st be a great experience for a child who knows how to read and is grades ahead. all the trouble makers or the dreamers in her class fit that category. 

 

nite nicole i am so glad K was a great experience for your dd. it wasnt for mine. she wasnt reading when she went in. but she took off and went grade levels ahead by before the winter break and the constant repetition has made school academically not a v. pleasant experience. like she told her K teacher 'i come to school to party, but i go home to study.' its still true to this day in fifth grade. but really it isnt about my dd that makes early reading a sore spot for me. she is the lucky one in society. the smart one. 

 

what is sore are the kids who were NOT ahead, but behind. it breaks my heart. they were so fantastic in other ways. yet the focus was always on reading. no one talked about the sculpture genius who was turning out sculptures of high school quality. THAT still makes me mad. 


 treehugger.gif Co-parent, joy.gifcold.gifbrand new homeschooling middle schoolerjoy.gif, and an attackcat.gif 
meemee is offline  
#22 of 56 Old 09-06-2012, 09:45 PM
 
NiteNicole's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 4,580
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
however under no circumstances will regular public K or 1st be a great experience for a child who knows how to read and is grades ahead. all the trouble makers or the dreamers in her class fit that category.

 

That makes no sense.  My daughter is grade levels ahead and she's fine.  Lots of kids are.  It does not necessarily follow that a child who learns to read early is going to struggle in school, nor does it mean they will be "trouble makers."

NiteNicole is offline  
#23 of 56 Old 09-07-2012, 09:30 AM
 
transylvania_mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: abroad
Posts: 1,048
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by meemee View Post


 

however under no circumstances will regular public K or 1st be a great experience for a child who knows how to read and is grades ahead. all the trouble makers or the dreamers in her class fit that category. 

Agree with NiteNicole. Ds also read above grade level, his K teacher had him tested by a specialist who confirmed he was reading at 3rd grade level at that time. He had a great experience both in K and 1st grade, socially and academically. 


caffix.gif

transylvania_mom is offline  
#24 of 56 Old 09-07-2012, 10:33 AM
 
KCMichigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 923
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dovey View Post

  He did not really teach himself.  When he learned to read, it was a huge developmental turning point in his life.  He stopped most imaginative play and began a process of constantly reading books - learning lots of interesting ideas, experiencing literature for himself, figuring out how to write sentences based on the cadences of what he had read, learning math from books - basically, he took off into an intellectual mode of thought and never looked back to early childhood. 

 

The developmental period of creative and imaginative play is not a phase to be hurried through.  It is important in its own right as well as helping the child develop his/her motor skills, social skills, and the ability to imagine and create detailed ideas.  It makes sense to help a child work through this phase without a lot distractions from screens or the written word.

 

Both my DDs were early readers (one more than the other) and it has been many years since my DDs have been reading. They were reading in preschool. But they were self-taught I did not seek out teaching them to read in any organized format.

 

In no way has there creativity been diminished. They constantly do imaginative play and they will be 7 next month. So their ability to read has not in anyway made them less creative or immerse themselves less in dramatic play. In fact, as they have gotten older their play has become more complicated and complex. It is really fun to watch their imaginary 'world' grow larger as their vocabulary and attention span lengthen.

 

Yes, they act out story lines from books. But they also act out scenes from things they have experienced, events from school, oral stories they have heard, and things they just make up. Yes, they add written portions to their play- but it is more of an enrichment rather than a detractor from what they are doing. It simply is added.

 

We do and always have limited screen but never ever have we limited printed word. I have read to them (and still do) since they were infants. We share books. Books are listed as one of their favorite things in any list they write.

 

I dont see the use of creativity and free open-ended play as something that can not coexist with reading. They are two separate things and sometimes they will occur in the same child and sometimes they wont. Some of it may be inherent personality  or interest driven (for early reader and non-early readers). 

 

I also do not think a kiddo that is not an early reader means anything negative either. Lots of preschoolers love books but have no drive or interest in learning to read before school. Some preschoolers have a low interaction with written words. It has no reflection on intelligence. In fact, some gifted individuals may also have learning disabilities and struggle to read as adults-- it does not mean they are any less intelligent.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by meemee View Post

trying to get kids to 'read' as fun i still find work. not fun. just the same as i dislike educational toys. trying to introduce 'unfun' things in a fun way. in my books - rather like bribing. perhaps i am a bit radical here. no. no. no. didnt want that. dd was interested in the human body. i got her all she wanted. i did not introduce the human body through toys hoping she would be interested. she had enough on her plate that she was curious about. i didnt need to introduce anything to totally overwhelm her. that's how i see educational toys or fun reading as. 

 

I am just going to disagree here. We love educational toys (not the flashing, blinging electronic ones!). An educational toy is one that you learn from. Which can be creating patterns with beads, magnetic letters/shapes/animals/pictures- those are toys and educational. Puzzles are both as well. Blocks can be educational toys-- count them, stack them, build with them, write letters on them, create scenes with them and other toys....Games are educational. Memory, chess, checkers, scrabble, Mad Libs, etc are all educational toys. A lot of kids enjoy playing them and you learn fantastic things (prediction skills, spelling skills, planning, counting, visual discrimination, etc)

 

Kids learn through play. Open-ended toys teach. That is an educational toy. Toss a bunch of things in a tub of water and see what floats? Why? That is educational and a toy? Letter stamps-- educational and fun. Get out maps and find places. Educational! Fun!

 

Again- I dont see how fun and education have to be exclusive of one another.

 

We did child-led learning at home. And they went to a play based preschool-- in both places they learned and had toys.

 

Things my DDs expressed an interest in- we explored. Space, animals, volcanoes, fish, weather, countries, etc. I got books, maps, models, figurines, etc that enabled them to satisfy their curiosity. When they were done we moved on.

 

 

 

however under no circumstances will regular public K or 1st be a great experience for a child who knows how to read and is grades ahead. all the trouble makers or the dreamers in her class fit that category. 

 

My DD did not do K. But they LOVED 1st grade. They were reading  way past grade level. There were a few other children right there with them academically. They learned to write stories and became excellent spellers.

 

They just started 2nd grade and love that so far too. The teacher has already differentiated for spelling and small group word lists come home next week.(we just started school this week).

 

Their 1st grade class had differentiated reading, spelling, writing groups. They did math centers on Friday that allowed for more individual exploration.  It worked well. Yes, there were a few issues that I did not like. But my daughters were really happy there and most of the time they were challenged. It helped that there was a small cluster of students in the same grade that were slightly below, at, or slightly above where my DDs were (all those kiddos were above grade level). 

 

But in the big picture it worked. Neither DD is a trouble maker and one is a dreamer--- but she was a dreamer looooooong before she started school!!

 

 

what is sore are the kids who were NOT ahead, but behind. it breaks my heart. they were so fantastic in other ways. yet the focus was always on reading. no one talked about the sculpture genius who was turning out sculptures of high school quality. THAT still makes me mad. 

 

It must be the school culture. The school my DD are at is not highly academically aggressive (though there are parents there that are that way- the school itself is not), but is in an areas that has a lot of parents that are academically inclined (it is by a major university). The schools stress that everyone has talents and does all it can to emphasis them. That we are all different at different things and that is a good thing. Art covers the walls, there is a drama club, a math club, scouting clubs, etc.

 

 

The teachers also stress teaching to different styles. They do activities and lessons that focus on auditory learners, visual learners, kinisthetic learners, etc. 

 

It really is a supportive well-rounded place that does well. No school will be perfect for each child-- but I think ours does a good job trying to meet all the kids needs.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NiteNicole View Post

 

That makes no sense.  My daughter is grade levels ahead and she's fine.  Lots of kids are.  It does not necessarily follow that a child who learns to read early is going to struggle in school, nor does it mean they will be "trouble makers."

Same here.

KCMichigan is online now  
#25 of 56 Old 09-07-2012, 11:37 AM
 
NiteNicole's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 4,580
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)

As far as creative play, my daughter was relieved when she could write down her own ideas, stories, dreams, lists, etc.  She liked writing letters - which we mailed.  I never proofed or changed them so people got some pretty random stuff from her for a while ;)  She is HIGHLY imaginative and is very much a story teller and into imaginative play.  It's endless. 

 

As far as educational toys...I've never been really hardcore about toys.  The toys that held her interest were usually toys that coincided with whatever developmental thing she had going on - pouring, stacking, sorting, building.  As with reading, I'm not going to keep her back from trying new things and discovering/practicing new skills - but I'm not going to force them on her either.  In that way I think we'd be pretty good unschoolers.  She's pretty motivated to explore her own interests and I'd say it's served her well in school.

NiteNicole is offline  
#26 of 56 Old 09-07-2012, 03:23 PM
bec
 
bec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Illinois
Posts: 6,008
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I have had 2 that taught themselves to read in preschool, and one who didn't break the code until halfway through first grade.  They are all great little readers.  With my "late" (put in quotes, because, I don't think she was all that late) reader, she made a huge leap from a pre-k level of phonics to above grade level in a matter of about a month once she figured it out.  The others had big leaps of comprehension and decoding skills, but not quite that dramatic. 

 

As far as how this all impacted them in school, it was totally teacher dependent.  My later reader had a horrible 1st grade experience, but had an awesome reading teacher (she was in a pullout to help get her up to speed) that got how she learned, and made adjustments for her learning style.  My middle had a tough time in K because the teacher would not accept that she was bored and disengaged with the class.  The teacher promised her over and over that she was going to bring challenging work in for her, but never did (didn't even try), and, instead set her up to help the kids that needed extra help as their tutor.  It was hard for her to comprehend that these kids were having such a hard time when it was so easy for her.  It put her in an unfair position, and set up a bad dynamic with the other kids.  There wasn't enough other things to keep her occupied and happy.  We got the brunt of that at home.  My youngest, however (very different personality, for all that her reading ability was actually more advanced in K than my middle), had a wonderful, wonderful K year.  Her teacher was phenomenal.  She gave a lot of open ended assignments, which naturally create a differentiated environment that met all the kids where they were at.  She seamlessly provided meaningful instruction to all the kids.  Children that needed phonics work got it. She didn't work with Abby on learning to read because she already knew how.  She worked with Abby on her writing skills, and focusing on the written word as a means to gain information (reading to learn). 

 

I will make a note, though, that the thought of preventing my two early readers from learning to read is laughable.  It's like trying to stop a runaway train.  I'm just trying to make sure it stays on the rails!


Mama to: Katie, Emily , and Abby
Not perfect, Just amazing!
bec is offline  
#27 of 56 Old 09-08-2012, 07:22 AM
 
meemee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Norther California
Posts: 12,620
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by NiteNicole View Post

 

That makes no sense.  My daughter is grade levels ahead and she's fine.  Lots of kids are.  It does not necessarily follow that a child who learns to read early is going to struggle in school, nor does it mean they will be "trouble makers."

i think you are right. because in this thread i am discovering how different all the states are with what they have available for the teachers. school life can be so different for an early reader depending on which state they live in. and no it does not necessarily follow. 

 

 

i am curious about the moms' with early readers. did they get any differentiation in school? Differentiation made a huge difference in two of the worst behaved kids in dd's school. 

 

in the state i am there if there is no pullout or GATE programs or volunteer parents, the teachers hands are tied. they are overworked with a LOT on their plate. they can barely make it each day. ESP. in the lower grades. 

 

of course i am talking about regular public schools.

 

i probably should have said a child who is ahead of the class struggle if they get no differentiation - in a public school which is academically focused. 


 treehugger.gif Co-parent, joy.gifcold.gifbrand new homeschooling middle schoolerjoy.gif, and an attackcat.gif 
meemee is offline  
#28 of 56 Old 09-08-2012, 10:10 AM
 
Neera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 1,189
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)

Mine is reading and has started K. We'll see how it goes. There are so many words like 'One' that she doesn't understand the phonics of. So I think she will be ok. But since she hasn't gone yet as she was sick and it is really the start of school, we'll find out soon.


Cheerfulness enables us to remember no problem lasts forever ~ Unknown
Neera is offline  
#29 of 56 Old 09-08-2012, 10:47 AM
 
NiteNicole's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 4,580
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)

I had a lot typed out but I don't want to give too much identifying information or get too far off topic.  I don't think I'm going to be successful. 

 

We are in a state in the deep south not known for it's good schools.  It's a regular public school in a suburb of a larger city.  When the school was started in the 90s, the parents had a lot of input.  Their biggest goal is to mainstream as many students as possible.  For pre K, which has limited spots, half the spaces are reserved for children with special needs and the rest need to qualify for free lunch so the families who most need those spots get them.

 

There is extra help in kindergarten for reading and math.  There isn't any official pull out program for early readers, but my daughter's teacher was very good at keeping her challenged.  Pull out gifted starts in first at ninety minutes a day and is a full day class starting in second.  There is also a grade between kinder and first for kids who are a little young, have discipline issues related to maturity, or just need more hands-on time with the concepts.  Some parents opt in just because, some kids are recommended and their parents opt out.  There's no stigma among the children because it's grouped with kindergarten. Due to the smaller class size, they get to do some really neat stuff and they are the "leaders" of the kindergarten hall.

 

The parents and PTA make our school possible.  Every special extra thing we have is a direct result of PTA fundraising and parent volunteers who keep costs down.

 

I volunteer a lot in the classroom and am the product of many gifted programs, from pull out to public residential.  I have known some profoundly, crazy, gifted wonder kids (I'm NOT one of them!).  I don't believe this myth that every kid with a discipline problem is just so gifted he/she is bored.  To me, it's just like any other discipline/impulse control issue.  Yes, we are all bored sometimes.  That doesn't mean we get to act out.  Sometimes you just have to learn self-control.  I think kids can have difficult impulse/discipline issues AND be profoundly gifted, but I don't think giftedness excuses or necessarily causes issues in the vast majority of kids. 

NiteNicole is offline  
#30 of 56 Old 09-09-2012, 09:53 AM
 
Mommykendra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

DD1 was reading at age 3. There is nothing I could have done to stop her--short of taking away anything that had letters on it.  Kindergarten was great for her (as was preschool).  She had great teachers that catered to her strengths and weakness (so during reading time--she'd either work on writing a story, or the teacher would ask if she wanted to read stories to some other kids).  We did have a problem in first grade with her being bored (so didn't like school as much, but we just talked to the teacher and worked out things she can do at school and at home to keep her challenged and learning), but never was a trouble maker and has always been near the top of her class.

DS1 was reading at age 4.  I'm not even sure when he started reading because it just seemed to slowly emerge and where DD1 would prefer to read herself, DS1 prefers to be read to.  One day, we were at the library and I asked him what book he wanted and he told me by reading the title.  He is very good at phonetics, but struggles with sight words and words that don't follow the rules.  He's been in Kindergarten for 3 weeks and I'm certain his teacher has no idea he knows how to read.  He's loving school even though it's very much things he already knows.

So to answer your question--I think it's only a disadvantage if you let it be and don't advocate for your child's academic needs

Mommykendra is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off