Are children growing up too quickly? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

View Poll Results: Do you feel children are being exposed to adult concepts, such as relationships and sex, far too you
Yes 30 62.50%
No 17 35.42%
Haven't Thought Much About It 1 2.08%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#61 of 85 Old 10-31-2012, 08:27 AM
 
ashleybess's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 57
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I disagree. Just don't go see an R-rated movie if you don't have a babysitter. You can wait until it's released on video and watch it after your child is put to bed.
 

One_Girl likes this.
ashleybess is offline  
#62 of 85 Old 10-31-2012, 08:30 AM
 
KayasMama04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: ATX
Posts: 641
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by meemee View Post

you are a racist when you dont understand a culture's norms and pass judgement on it, no matter how many cultures you are around, just coz their norms are not the same as yours. its more about the language you use. though really i should say prejudiced, not racist. i am sure if you went in india another mom would be wondering why you arent hand feeding your child but expecting them to use the fork and spoon. 

its not a simple answer and there are many layers to understand. when cultures clash sometimes there is no need to understand. just to accept. 

I actually have pondered several questions that they probably wonder about the American culture they live in. I am not racist or predjudiced because I wonder these things I don't act on them or insult their customs nor would I. Last I checked I lived in America where I am allowed to think and wonder for myself. I seek knowledge more than anything else, just curious why and with your jumpy attitude seals why I never ask it just is pure curiosity.

A girl on the bus I ride is Muslim and she encourages questions because she rather people be knowledgable of her religion and not ignorant. Knowledge is power and it will free you fom stereotypes and ignorance.

My daughter grew up using utensils and when she has questions like why do they eat that way I would love to give her the right answer other than just cause.
KayasMama04 is offline  
#63 of 85 Old 10-31-2012, 08:39 AM
 
redheather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Sex, if celebrated and treated respectfully, is wonderful and life-affirming. I completely agree that "smelling like a bar" or whatever those lyrics are is not celebratory and cheapens everyone involved, and that's when I would sit down and have a conversation with an older child (who is beginning to comprehend things better) about what they might be hearing.

 

Even my 3yo DD is picking up on romantic love themes, marriage, and even mild flirtation. It's just out there.

 

Or is it in us?

 

Without having a study to cite, I would venture to say that in many traditional cultures, marriage occured at a younger age, often in the teen years, so it seems quite likely that those children are aware of sex from an early age. After all, marriage was all about reproduction. BUT! They didn't have bizarre distortions of it (as in the songs), and that may be the key difference: it's not about the age of awareness, but what exactly they are becoming aware of. Something respectful or something distorted?

 

I wonder if how the parents are addressing sexuality within the home will have the most bearing on the child's perception. It seems like being grossly overt or keeping it taboo are both going to be harmful to a child's developing perceptions. Maybe talking about the distorted images of sex, rather than protecting kids from all ideas about sex, could help.

redheather is offline  
#64 of 85 Old 10-31-2012, 11:48 AM
 
tiqa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 503
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

FWIW I'm sure my kids sometimes overhear my husband and I, erm, "being together."  We shut our door and all, but the walls are thin.  It's not like we go all out but we're not completely silent either.  They haven't really asked any questions about it but I'm preeeetty sure they know what is going on, at least in very vague terms.  I think there are worse things in the world than kids being exposed to "healthy" sexual relations.

tiqa is offline  
#65 of 85 Old 10-31-2012, 12:04 PM
 
rightkindofme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 4,580
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)

I believe that a lot of a parent's job is to model what it looks like to be a "good person". I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with pop music. But while I listen to it I openly criticize it. When I see music videos I make comments (preferably to kids, but to anyone who is watching) which parts of what is shown is dangerous and why.

 

Kids need to learn about relationships. Kids need to learn about sex. They need to learn that at some point they will like someone enough to want to touch them and to be touched by them. There are a lot of different cultural markers for how that works. I don't figure I get to keep my kids from growing up in the culture we live in.

 

But I talk to them a lot about how their body belongs to them. If anyone does something they don't like to their body they should say no. Loudly and clearly. With a kick to the scrotum if a guy has his hand on you and won't let go. You have the right to defend your body. You are important. You matter. Some people want to hurt you because they are selfish and they want to steal the right to touch you. But it's something that has to be given freely or it doesn't count. They don't understand that. It's ok to be mean to people who are touching your genitals without your permission. Be as mean as you need to be to get away.

 

And then we watch Lady Gaga and talk about the videos. I don't care that she's mostly naked. I don't consider the body something to be ashamed of showing off. I like watching her costumes and how she moves. I like seeing what her idea of sexy is. I like thinking about how it is similar and different from mine. I talk to my daughter about the bodies she sees in the videos. She's aware that most people don't have bodies like theirs. It leads to interesting conversations about what "pretty" means.

 

I think that if you are there with your kids exploring the world and helping them understand what is going on then most of our culture can be kind of handled. That said, I don't let my kids watch PG 13 let alone R rated movies. They are big wusses. I only watch grown up movies after bedtime on Netflix streaming. I figure it is only a decade or so where I have to be limited. Not seeing movies the day they are released is ok.

 

I feel like I have had to limit my world down to things that are ok for them. It has made my world smaller. It makes me think about everything a lot more. I do include Katy Perry and Lady Gaga and Pink. For better or for worse, those are some of the primary women out being seen. This *is* the world they live in. I don't feel like I need to worry about it.


My advice may not be appropriate for you. That's ok. You are just fine how you are and I am the right kind of me.

rightkindofme is offline  
#66 of 85 Old 10-31-2012, 03:06 PM
 
Lenore K.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Northern Wisconsin and Michigan's Upper Peninsula
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Yes, I believe they are exposed to such concepts at too young an age. I would also include a lot of exposure to other concepts they are not yet ready for. Think of what is covered in the news and on tv. We were sitting in a dr's waiting room with a tv on and they were repeatedly covering the latest news about the rape/murder of a five yr old girl. My daughter was five at the time and immediately began asking questions about it. Was she ready for such exposure? We were called in just as they began covering all the details, but that did not stop the questions. 

Lenore K. is offline  
#67 of 85 Old 10-31-2012, 03:57 PM
 
kythe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 608
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lenore K. View Post

Yes, I believe they are exposed to such concepts at too young an age. I would also include a lot of exposure to other concepts they are not yet ready for. Think of what is covered in the news and on tv. We were sitting in a dr's waiting room with a tv on and they were repeatedly covering the latest news about the rape/murder of a five yr old girl. My daughter was five at the time and immediately began asking questions about it. Was she ready for such exposure? We were called in just as they began covering all the details, but that did not stop the questions. 

She's not too young for it to happen to her, so you could turn this into an educational experience. You don't have to go into all the details, but if you've already told her how babies are made, you could add on that sometimes people do bad things by forcing others to do things with their bodies that they don't want. There is obviously nothing you can do about murder, but you could tell her how to tell you or some other adult if something bad happens to her. Make sure she understands it is safe to talk about it, even if the abuser tells her not to tell.

My daughter had already been molested by the time she was 5. I'm glad she felt comfortable talking about sex to adults around her.
kythe is offline  
#68 of 85 Old 10-31-2012, 03:59 PM
 
tiqa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 503
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

That's awful.  One of the reasons we don't have TV in our house anymore.  DH and I had CNN on all.the.time and all those horrible details totally did me in - and that's BEFORE we had kids to worry about exposing to the constant negativity.

tiqa is offline  
#69 of 85 Old 10-31-2012, 04:02 PM
 
tiqa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 503
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kythe View Post


She's not too young for it to happen to her, so you could turn this into an educational experience. You don't have to go into all the details, but if you've already told her how babies are made, you could add on that sometimes people do bad things by forcing others to do things with their bodies that they don't want. There is obviously nothing you can do about murder, but you could tell her how to tell you or some other adult if something bad happens to her. Make sure she understands it is safe to talk about it, even if the abuser tells her not to tell.
My daughter had already been molested by the time she was 5. I'm glad she felt comfortable talking about sex to adults around her.

 

Ugh.  I'm so sorry for your daughter (and you).

 

I know no one is immune, but it is possible to talk to children about possible abuse without exposing them to grim details... I don't know if it will get driven home with them better if they know the details about other kids.  I guess that's something each parent has to decide for themselves... but I think that's just the point.  If you as the parent make the conscious choice to share such-and-such amount of details with your child to educate them, OK.  But when the media takes charge (and sometimes shares TOO much) that choice is taken away from the parents, I guess.

 

I dunno, it's hard all around.

tiqa is offline  
#70 of 85 Old 10-31-2012, 05:04 PM
 
meemee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Norther California
Posts: 12,765
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KayasMama04 View Post


I actually have pondered several questions that they probably wonder about the American culture they live in. I am not racist or predjudiced because I wonder these things I don't act on them or insult their customs nor would I. Last I checked I lived in America where I am allowed to think and wonder for myself. I seek knowledge more than anything else, just curious why and with your jumpy attitude seals why I never ask it just is pure curiosity.
A girl on the bus I ride is Muslim and she encourages questions because she rather people be knowledgable of her religion and not ignorant. Knowledge is power and it will free you fom stereotypes and ignorance.
My daughter grew up using utensils and when she has questions like why do they eat that way I would love to give her the right answer other than just cause.

dialogue is wonderful to understand culture. appropriate questions are great. 

 

but when you use terms like 'shoving' and assume by their actions that "you (general) don't want your child to do things on their own" its a kind of judgement. you've already made a jugement in your mind and are looking to see why they dont follow your way and why they do things the way they do. 

 

i had a very interesting conversation with a friend yesterday. she is african american. and she told me something v. interesting. "black people dont raise their children to be racist." the people become prejudiced because of the in your face and subtle racism they face big time. made me think. 


 treehugger.gif Co-parent, joy.gifcold.gifbrand new homeschooling middle schoolerjoy.gif, and an attackcat.gif 
meemee is offline  
#71 of 85 Old 11-01-2012, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
beaandbunny05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

meemee, I feel as though I'm similar to KayasMama (forgive me if I'm making the wrong assumption) in the fact that neither of us are racist nor prejudice, just ignorant on some cultures. I am not well educated on every culture, nor would I ever claim to be. I see a lot of people doing "weird" things that I don't understand.

 

Problem for me is, I have asked someone in the past why they did these things. They got angry and jumped down my throat (similar to how your posts seemed to be judging KayasMama). Since then, I won't ask people why they do the weird things they do.. like "shoving" their hands in their kid's mouths. Instead, I either don't ever learn or I look it up on the Internet which may still give the wrong answers. I'd rather be ignorant on cultures than have people judge me because I'm uninformed.

 

I think, instead of dumping your judgment on someone, you should be open for questions. If I went to someone else's country, or was in someone else's home, or even if my child just went to school with someone who's ideas were different from my own, instead of being upset with the terms they used, I'd explain why I do what they're curious about and I'd be willing to answer questions.

 

It sucks to be judged because your ignorant about the way something works. It sucks even worse if you can't get the answers to your questions because you're worried that someone will judge you even more for the terms you use.

tiqa likes this.
beaandbunny05 is offline  
#72 of 85 Old 11-01-2012, 12:52 PM
 
Lenore K.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Northern Wisconsin and Michigan's Upper Peninsula
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kythe View Post


She's not too young for it to happen to her, so you could turn this into an educational experience. You don't have to go into all the details, but if you've already told her how babies are made, you could add on that sometimes people do bad things by forcing others to do things with their bodies that they don't want. There is obviously nothing you can do about murder, but you could tell her how to tell you or some other adult if something bad happens to her. Make sure she understands it is safe to talk about it, even if the abuser tells her not to tell.
My daughter had already been molested by the time she was 5. I'm glad she felt comfortable talking about sex to adults around her.

Yes, we had already covered all that. Even though grim, I did take advantage of the learning moment and we did discuss it. I am just glad that she missed the gruesome details. My main point was that your children can really be exposed to too much just about anywhere - the drs office, a neighbor's house, with a sitter, etc. I am glad your daughter was comfortable to talk about what happened to her. My daughter was also comfortable enought to talk about an incident between her and a boy that was more than mere exploration. That is what we can hope for that they can be comfortable talking about any situation.

 

I agree with the posters that how the parents handle these different situations can have a major effect on how the child will feel about sex, relationships and behavior in general. The media is promoting teen and adult behaviors, fashion and lifestyles at younger and younger ages. Parents do not have to "buy" into it. 

Lenore K. is offline  
#73 of 85 Old 11-01-2012, 08:31 PM
 
pek64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,502
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Apparently the point that "shoving" is a judgmental choice of words was missed. Thay choice makes the "question" actually a judgment. If you are curious, simply think before asking and make sure all your words are neutral. It's a matter of respect.
beaandbunny05 likes this.
pek64 is offline  
#74 of 85 Old 11-02-2012, 01:51 AM
 
Ophelialove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

OMG - THANK YOU for this post.  Seriously.

 

I have a near 6 yr old that I often help to get dressed & sometimes help him eat if the food is hard to manage (think sloppy sandwich) and I get all sorts of rude comments about it.  He in turn is happy to feed his 2 1/2 yr old brother hard to manage stuff like ice cream & soup when I am busy.  Dh falls in there with the feeding too.  I just don't see the big deal.  My kids would obviously not starve if I did not feed them, but I don't see feeding them as anything other than being nurturing & if I *want* to do so, who cares.  It's not like I am feeding him babyfood on a spoon at college.  LOL  I also help Dh take off shoes & such at the end of along day & he will so the same for me.

 

As to the OP - I think that exploitation of sex is larger than ever, but I do not think it is a "bad" thing for a child of any age to be aware of sex, drugs, etc.  What is truly harmful is our weirdo attitude about it.  I have heard people talk with disgust about toddlers nursing in public & even babies & making comments that they don't want their "kids to see that"...ummm why not?  The same people often would find no fault in taking those same kids to Hooters for dinner or letting them watch what would have been called soft core porn in my day, yet the idea that their child sees a nipple in conjunction with child feeding suddenly becomes a problem to them is hard for me to fathom.

 

I make no effort to hide anything from our kids.  A couple we are dear friends with has one souse in mid gender reassignment.  This came out when my Ds was 3 1/2 yrs old.  2 yrs later he is still ab it confused by it, but no more so than most of the adults in the situation.  He knows single moms who have no father in the picture & a few gay individuals & gay couples.  Life is life.  There is no way to explain any of that to him outside the context of sex really, since that is what defines our sexuality - who we are sexually interested in.  It is far easier to explain homosexuality in the context of including sexual attraction than having him wonder if he is gay because he really likes his BFF.  I haven't explained all the various mechanics & he has not asked...but he has a basic idea of most concepts.  Best of all though - so far, due to his own experience, he still views breasts a baby/child feeders, rather than fun bags.  We also don't listen to radio very much around our kids (at least not mainstream radio) and we don't have any cable/satellite, etc so they get no commercials & no way for the next program to come on & be something I don't like.  we used to & I really did not like that.  So now we do netflix & very little of it.
 

Ophelialove is offline  
#75 of 85 Old 11-02-2012, 01:51 AM
 
Ophelialove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)


 oops double post

Ophelialove is offline  
#76 of 85 Old 11-02-2012, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
beaandbunny05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

pek64, thank you for your explanation, because as you stated, the choice of the word was overlooked. I could see how people could possibly get offended by the choice of words. But the problem is, some words that you may find neutral may still offend some people. I'd rather just use the Internet as a tool or use the library... it's less likely to offend anyone that way.

beaandbunny05 is offline  
#77 of 85 Old 11-02-2012, 01:49 PM
 
tiqa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 503
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I dunno, I agree with erring on the side of assuming ignorance rather than malice.  Even if the words are potentially offensive... and maybe gently pointing out the word might be hurtful *while still addressing the focus of the actual question or comment*.  The whole catching more flies with honey thing... ya know?  I guess it's hard to tell sometimes especially on the Internet what tone to take a comment in.  And sometimes people do put their foot in it... and sure, it's OK to tell her that word offended you, but really, I dunno, it's a lot of drama instead of an educational opportunity.

 

When I was in college, my best friends in the world were a group of international students.  They were from India.  We hung out all the time, got apartments across the street from each other, cooked and ate together... in short, they were my best friends and I had no prejudice against them whatsoever.  English isn't my first language/culture and in my original culture it's perfectly OK to identify a group by their nationality.  "The Germans are coming over for dinner" or whatever...  It's totally neutral.  Sometimes I referred to my friends, then, as "the Indians" to another roommate.  Apparently this offended them to the point where they called a "group meeting" or something like that because of my "cultural insensitivity."  It hurt like hell because I truly had meant absolutely no malice whatsoever... but apparently it was some sort of faux pas and I was accused of being racist and all that.  Well then.  It's not like I was actively trying to be derogatory... And if I was so darned racist, why was I spending 99% of my time with them?  If one of them had referred to me as "the [person from my country of origin]" it wouldn't have crossed my radar at all to be offended...  If one of them had pulled me aside and said they didn't like that, I would totally have stopped right then and there, instead of having to be embarrased like that and put on the spot. But yeah.  Sometimes totally innocent comments are blown out of proportion...

beaandbunny05 likes this.
tiqa is offline  
#78 of 85 Old 11-02-2012, 07:18 PM
 
meemee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Norther California
Posts: 12,765
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaandbunny05 View Post

I think, instead of dumping your judgment on someone, you should be open for questions. If I went to someone else's country, or was in someone else's home, or even if my child just went to school with someone who's ideas were different from my own, instead of being upset with the terms they used, I'd explain why I do what they're curious about and I'd be willing to answer questions.

so what you are saying is that because a person wants to learn - its more important to ignore the way they asked the question and just educate them?

 

even though their words were very offensive?

 

seriously?

 

i dont know. i just find is so flabbergasting that shoving her hands tied in with the idea of independence is not seen as offensive. 

 

there is a subtle issue of language that matters a whole lot when asking. its not just 'upset with the terms they used'. to say something like i saw a mom not using utensils but using her fingers to feed her son - sounds much better than she was shoving her hand inside his mouth. speaks volumes. 

 

and then you want me to keep calm, not be upset and go right ahead and explain my culture. which i did by the way. i did explain to whatever level i could about the culture and then point out her language. 

 

ignorance does not excuse talking down to another culture. and in very subtle way (make sure you make an observation and not an opinion - shoving is an opinion - feeding with her fingers is an observation) language matters a huge deal. perhaps the intention of the person (and i am not questioning the intention of the poster here. i am sure it was an innocent stream of writing question) was good but if its cloaked in judgemental term, that is not conducive to a good dialogue. 

One_Girl likes this.

 treehugger.gif Co-parent, joy.gifcold.gifbrand new homeschooling middle schoolerjoy.gif, and an attackcat.gif 
meemee is offline  
#79 of 85 Old 11-02-2012, 11:00 PM
 
pek64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,502
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaandbunny05 View Post

pek64, thank you for your explanation, because as you stated, the choice of the word was overlooked. I could see how people could possibly get offended by the choice of words. But the problem is, some words that you may find neutral may still offend some people. I'd rather just use the Internet as a tool or use the library... it's less likely to offend anyone that way.

You are managing to offend real people, using the Internet.

Since you admit to having a problem selecting neutral words, I'll give you a few pointers.

'Feeding' is a more neutral choice, whereas 'shoving' implies domineering or controlling (negative) behavior.
'Different' or 'unusual' are both more neutral than 'wierd', even when it's put in quotes.

Hopefully, you get the idea.
pek64 is offline  
#80 of 85 Old 11-03-2012, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
beaandbunny05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

By referring to the Internet as a tool, I don't mean using blog sites, etc. where you are interacting with people. I meant simply using search engines such as Google or Bing, where there is no interaction. But I will definitely take into consideration the difference of terms.

beaandbunny05 is offline  
#81 of 85 Old 11-03-2012, 09:00 AM
 
meemee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Norther California
Posts: 12,765
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaandbunny05 View Post

By referring to the Internet as a tool, I don't mean using blog sites, etc. where you are interacting with people. I meant simply using search engines such as Google or Bing, where there is no interaction. But I will definitely take into consideration the difference of terms.

i just saw your other thread where you said you are on the road to be a ped. 

 

words hurt. 

 

as i tell my dd sometimes they are worse than physical violence. so beware of what you say.

 

so its even more important that you in your role are even more aware of your speech. 

 

one of the biggest complaints i hear is talking down to others. not saying you are doing that but its very easy thing to do - even in ignorance - it still is what it is. talking down. now some people may be able to ignore it and move on, but for many they have been talked down to so often that they cannot handle it. 

 

unfortunately we are not really taught how to communicate with people, especially when we are older and still need to. most people enjoy talking about how they do things, their culture but only if someone is genuinely interested to learn about them, not compare them with their culture and just focus on their differences. its a hard, hard thing to do. to break out of your own mode of perspective and look at someone with whom you differ a 180 degrees. which is the reason why racism is still so strong even today inspite of civil rights. i feel civil rights only gave legal rights, but society hasnt changed much since then. 

 

but i do want to add - since you are talking and thinking about this - you will make a wonderful kind and sympathetic ped in future thumb.gif

beaandbunny05 likes this.

 treehugger.gif Co-parent, joy.gifcold.gifbrand new homeschooling middle schoolerjoy.gif, and an attackcat.gif 
meemee is offline  
#82 of 85 Old 11-03-2012, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
beaandbunny05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

A book that I read stated that some people find owls offensive, as well as Mt. Rushmore... With so many things that are considered taboo, how do you make sure that your speech is always clear from things that could be offensive without using technical jargon that no one can understand?

beaandbunny05 is offline  
#83 of 85 Old 11-03-2012, 09:26 AM
 
pek64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,502
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Again, make sure you choose neutral words. And as soon as you see or hear evidence that you have offended, apologize. Then you can let the subject drop and take your cue from the other person. Give that person the last word on the subject. And most importantly, LISTEN. I mean truly listen, where you silence your inner voice that is telling you how right, important, or ok it is that you said what you said. Silence *all* the inner voices, and try to imagine what you are being told, as though you are in the speaker's place and feeling what the speaker is feeling.
pek64 is offline  
#84 of 85 Old 11-03-2012, 09:43 AM
 
meemee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Norther California
Posts: 12,765
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 19 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaandbunny05 View Post

A book that I read stated that some people find owls offensive, as well as Mt. Rushmore... With so many things that are considered taboo, how do you make sure that your speech is always clear from things that could be offensive without using technical jargon that no one can understand?

instead of asking 'why do you find owls offensive?" ask what is your cultures or your view of the owl?

 

for me the easy way has been - first - to do a lot of inner work on myself. i really really do believe that words are not the primary way we communicate. we communicate first with our body language and then with our words. 

 

it is not easy to lie. esp. culturally. people can make out the difference between genuine curiosity or curiosity with a purpose. not everybody has the gift of the gab, but they have the choice of how they decide to look at the world. 

 

like let me ask you. what do you really want to know. do you really want to know what they think of the owl? that is an open ended question. that is a person who really wants to know all aspects of a culture. but when you say why do you find the owl offensive you are stating an opinion and formulating a question through your opinion. see the difference? 

 

I know Lakota Indians see mount rushmore in a different light. here's an article i found that might help explain http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/rushmore/peopleevents/p_sioux.html

 

this is the same situation worldwide. ayer's rock or uluru in Australia. same concept http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uluru read esp. under history. 

 

one other thing is to ask questions purely based on observation. something like when i saw  you look at the owl you made a sign of the cross. I am curious why you did that.

 

also remember abuse is felt for generations - not just one generation, esp when it has never stopped. so be esp. careful of questions that you ask of Native Americans. it usually brings up a very emotional side of their life. so emotional that its hard for them to speak. sometimes its not that important to know you know. but just to be aware. not all natives feel that way, but many many do. 

 

sometimes all you need is to go into a culture with a clean mind. dont have questions, dont bring your own culture. just sit and observe when you are amongst them. sometimes silence is the best question and the best answer. 

 

sometimes the need to know is offensive by itself. many things cant be explained. they just need to be observed. 

 

not easy huh? very complicated. but its such a beautiful place to be. i recall as a toddler when we went to the park, i'd just sit and observe the kids playing - not ask for explanations - but just watch them and learn if we could use their communication skills we'd never be in teh cycle of war. like dd tells me, ma does there always have to be an answer to the why's?!


 treehugger.gif Co-parent, joy.gifcold.gifbrand new homeschooling middle schoolerjoy.gif, and an attackcat.gif 
meemee is offline  
#85 of 85 Old 11-04-2012, 09:57 AM
 
BellinghamCrunchie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Alpha Centauri
Posts: 4,293
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by meemee View Post

 

sometimes all you need is to go into a culture with a clean mind. dont have questions, dont bring your own culture. just sit and observe when you are amongst them. sometimes silence is the best question and the best answer. 

 

 

 

I think I'm going to post this on my refrigerator. Thank you, meemee.

BellinghamCrunchie is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off