Very Spirited Child - Please help! - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-12-2003, 09:34 AM
 
JessicaS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 42,897
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Actually, they can just draw a bit of blood and run it through this machine thingie they have now for allergy testing.

I have severe allergies and the pin prick series is very serious buisness and involves A LOT of pricks, and I dont think an adult can easily asses what hurts to a child when that child is going through such testing. It literally takes all day or multiple days to go through that type of testing when it isn't clear what they are allergic to...

they do it on your upper arm in a grid pattern...

I am severly allergic to horses and my Dr did NOT inject the horse serum under my skin because of the risks involved

When I was in fifth grade I went through it and it involved at least a hundred pricks in one day..it SUCKED..I actually broke down and cried and thats when they stopped...I still have some scars from some of the stuff I am allergic to.

I also have concerns about the ingrediants in the serum they use for those pricks..

If you want to do allergy testing (which is great, allergies can effect a lot of different things) I would highly recommend finding an allergist with the allergic-o-matic machine thing..that isn't what it is called though..LOL

Not all those who wander are lost 
JessicaS is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-12-2003, 02:46 PM
mfm
 
mfm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: vancouver, wa
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Can I *ever* relate to your situation. My dd from the age of 3 was like that. I read everything I could get my hands on (including almost every book mentioned in this thread) We also went to therapists, parenting classes, alopathic doctors, a play therapist and a behaviorist. We even had her blood tested when she was 3, because I would not believe that it was just our parenting.

In January of 2002, we went to the behaviorist, and he wanted to put her on medication. I burst into tears and told him not in a million years. Two days later we went to a nautropath and she said she thought dd had food sensitivities. We had her tested, and she came up with several things. We went on a 6 week elimination diet and within 5 days, she was a different person. We have since added back the different foods one by one and have determined that wheat and refined sugars are the culprits. Staying off those foods makes a world of difference for her (and us) It's nice to be able to really enjoy my sweet dd.

I live in Vancouver, WA and I know of some really good np doctors if you're interested.

Also, one of the best parenting books I have ever read is "Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline" I highly recommend it to anyone. It can change your life (even how you deal with adults).

Good luck, and hang in there. I know how hard it is.

mfm

Fogot to mention. Generally, a blood test only picks up food allergies (asthma, skin rashes etc) not food sensitives.
mfm is offline  
Old 01-12-2003, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
angelsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yes, please let me know who you have found.

Sometimes I get caught up in how painfully difficult it is to parent my dd & don't realize how difficult it must be for her too!

Our ped. referred us to a child psychologist with a PhD. I wanted a psychiatrist, but he said this man is excellent.

After the appt. I went to the car to grab the diaper bag for my 4 month old. When I returned dh said that dd had been rattling the doorknob, upon being asked to stop she immediately did it again and went on to lick the glass of the door up as far as she could reach (on her tip toes) all the way to the bottom and then stood in one place and licked in circles. My dh said that for the first time he just sat back and watched her...wanted to see what she would do without our rush to get her to stop. As she was licking in circles he eventually cleared his throat and she finally stopped. WHAT IS THAT?!

She is an otherwise very articulate, mature 5 year old...except when it comes to oral issues. It must be a compulsion. I nursed her until she was 2.5 years old and then weaned her because I was ill and down to 82 lbs. I needed medication. However, I regretted it from the moment I agreed to do it. Do you think she wasn't ready to wean & that is why she continues to put (almost) everything in her mouth? If that is the reason, is there anything I can do to help her?

Thank you.
angelsmama is offline  
Old 01-12-2003, 07:42 PM
 
modmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 477
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
angels mama my heart goes out to you. My almost 6 years old has her moments as well as it is trying. I find that it goes in phases we are just getting out of a bad time after the school break. It is so hard. And by the way I am a psychotherapist!
Anyway hang in there and believe in her.

Do you think there is anything going on in connection with the new baby.?
Not that you have not thought of that.

Good luck try to get some sleep and be her advocate.
modmom is offline  
Old 01-12-2003, 08:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
angelsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by modmom
Do you think there is anything going on in connection with the new baby.?
I have thought about that a great deal. DD has always been spirited (my mom says she's hyperactive). It was much easier for me to avoid the triggers when she was an only child. So I think was has changed the most since having our baby is that those triggers are not as successfully avoided. She is a very loving, kind, sweet, affectionate, caring big sister. However, her intensity & energy seem to overwhelm her at times & she does things with the baby that she knows are not safe. That is certainly a situation that leads to stress. I try to talk to her before she gets out of control, but that often doesn't work. Also when baby falls asleep I will go to dd & in very soft voices ask her to use soft voices so baby will sleep longer & she & I will have more time to do things together. She always agrees, but 30 seconds later she will race around the corner & SCREAM, "boo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" in an effort to surprise me. Then baby is awake (but exhausted), I am annoyed and dd feels sad because she didn't 'mean' to.

I think we wre hoping she would outgrow the oral fixation and the difficulty sleeping. However, those issues are even more pronounced as she is older. Chewing up books and licking doors is very unusual behavior for a 5 yr old (but would not be for a 2 or 3 yr old). She simply never stopped putting things in her mouth. She honestly does it about as much now as when she was 1 or 2. I think especially for my dh the contrast between dd #1 & dd #2 makes things more stressful and urgent. Our baby is very calm.

Hope that wasn't too long.

Have a great day.
angelsmama is offline  
Old 01-12-2003, 10:08 PM
 
Sofiamomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Putting boobs in babies' mouths!
Posts: 809
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
{{{{{{{{Angelsmama}}}}}}}} You sound like a very good and thoughtful mama. Hang in there and keep looking for what works. My dd does not have an oral fixation, but my neice does, and I sometimes wonder if it was because she did not get enough sucking time in as a baby/small child. And, no kidding, my sister and BIL bought her a teething ring and it did seem to help. I would be a little leery of the possible embarrassment factor, but dn seemed to feel it helped her in spite of being slightly sheepish when she told me what it was for (I found it in the fridge and asked if it was for their new baby).

My own dd, OTOH, has other compulsions, such as rubbing her face in circles with her fingers and thumb-twiddling. I think she uses it to release stress. I know that being who she is has got to be stressful. Like your dd, she is just simply not capable of being quiet even if she knows she should and wants to. She is getting better and can do it sometimes now, but not always. The constant reprimands from adults to "be quiet", "stop doing that", "don't make that noise", "don't jump up and down/jiggle/bark like a dog", etc., etc. must frustrate her no end. I have yet to find a way to help her deal so she doesn't have to use her compulsive behavior to let off steam.

I discovered the food sensitivities when she was just two, so she has had a much toned-down response to her spiritedness than she might otherwise have gotten. I will also note that she loves, loves, loves to do really odd things (like licking a door) just to get a response. For instance, she used to lick me, which elicits a primitive response I can't even explain. I am completely repulsed/horrified, and. . . I can't put it into words. Suffice it to say, my knee jerk response was to smack her. Yikes! She, of course, was entranced with her ability to get such an fascinating response. I have no idea if that is the case with your dd, but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway.

You were asking earlier why the need for an elimination diet, as opposed to allergy testing. I think mfm hit it on the head by saying that food *sensitivities* can't be tested for. Am I right in thinking that naturopaths can test for them by doing a hair analysis, though? I'm not sure about that, I just think I remember hearing or reading about that somewhere.

SMC to Sophia, age 15, and Eleanor, age 9, and mother hen to too many nursing students to count!

Sofiamomma is offline  
Old 01-12-2003, 10:24 PM
mfm
 
mfm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: vancouver, wa
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
np doctors in vancouver/portland area

In Vancouver, there is a wonderful, caring woman named Lori Brown. She works at Natural Family Medicine in Cascade Park (360) 882-1339.

If you'd rather stay in Portland, there is a woman named Rita Bettenburg. She works at the Natural Childbirth Family Clinic. (503) 252-8125. (She did the testing for our dd until we found Lori in Vancouver)

Both use non-invasive testing for food sensitivities. It is done by testing the electomagnetic field in the body. As weird/woo-woo as it sounds, I know of several people that have had it done and it works. (including my dd) Sometimes though, foods will show up that may not be the cause of the problem. For our dd, rye, oats and walnuts showed up, but they don't seem to contribute to her behavior. That's where the elimination diet comes in. When you add one food back at a time, you can really tell which ones are the culprits.

Even though dd is much, much better when abstaining from the foods, she still cycles through phases that are not pleasant to live through. Avoiding those foods at those times makes it much easier.

As for your dd licking the glass.... I agree with sofiamomma. Sometimes I think kids do stuff like that just to get a reaction. (Whether it be a positive reaction or a negative one.)

My heart goes out to you. I *know* how trying it can be.

Good luck, and please keep me posted.

mfm
mfm is offline  
Old 01-13-2003, 12:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
angelsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by Sofiamomma
I will also note that she loves, loves, loves to do really odd things (like licking a door) just to get a response.
Good point. However, my dd usually does it when she is alone (and I find evidence of it later) or when she is oblivious to us. There are other things she seems to do to get a reaction, but unfortunately the oral issues are not in that category.

About a year and half ago she was biting her nails & I gave her a pacifier (which she was not interested in as a baby/toddler as she was nursing) and she really enjoyed it. She found it again the other day and had it in her mouth. (Such a strange sight.) I told her that she could have it in her mouth as long as we didn't have company. She asked why & I explained that others would find it inappropriate for a 5 yr old to have a 'binky'. She accepted that. Maybe I should remind her to use it more often. However, I would still like to understand 'why'. I feel like there is something wrong with my girl.

Thank you for all the insight.

Best Wishes.
angelsmama is offline  
Old 01-13-2003, 12:14 AM - Thread Starter
 
angelsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by mfm
np doctors in vancouver/portland area

Both use non-invasive testing for food sensitivities. It is done by testing the electomagnetic field in the body. As weird/woo-woo as it sounds, I know of several people that have had it done and it works. (including my dd) Sometimes though, foods will show up that may not be the cause of the problem. For our dd, rye, oats and walnuts showed up, but they don't seem to contribute to her behavior. That's where the elimination diet comes in. When you add one food back at a time, you can really tell which ones are the culprits.
Now I just need to convince my dh. Unfortunately, he would be more likely to put dd on medication than pay for "testing the electomagnetic field in the body". I, on the other hand, refuse to put her on meds. I think what we'll do is try elminating gluten & dairy to see if that is helpful. How long does it need to be out of their system to know if that is the culpret?

Thank you!
angelsmama is offline  
Old 01-13-2003, 03:40 AM
mfm
 
mfm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: vancouver, wa
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Now I just need to convince my dh
I completely understand. It is pretty weird to think how they're testing. If I hadn't known someone who had had success, I would not have been very willing either. Even then, I was thinking 'woo-woo stuff' the whole time. But, I figured, what have I got to lose?

Quote:
How long does it need to be out of their system to know if that is the culpret?
I guess that's dependent on the individual. For us, we saw a remarkable change in 5 days. I said to my 7 yr old dd that I noticed a difference, and asked her if she had noticed. She told me yes. When I asked her to put it into words, she said "My body and my brain feel better."

The thinking behind the food sensitivities is called the 'bucket theory'. Each time the child eats a food to which they are sensitive, a bucket starts filling. When the bucket gets full, it overflows. For us that was demonstated as wild rages. Biting, scratching, hitting, kicking, throwing potted plants, etc. Once, when she was 3 yrs old, she picked up one of our solid wood kitchen chairs, put it over her head, and threw it. I remember talking to her after that incident and saying that she needed to get a handle on her anger. She looked me in the eyes, started crying and said "I can't stop it" That's when I started seeking help. I *knew* something was not right, and I wasn't going to just believe that it was solely our parenting.

I will do some research on the oral thing. It may just be who she is. Instead of being tactile, she uses her mouth to explore. We all have our different ways...

She's so lucky to have you as a mom. Some mom's wouldn't take the time of day to try to figure out what is going on.

mfm
mfm is offline  
Old 01-13-2003, 04:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
angelsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally posted by mfm


She's so lucky to have you as a mom.
Thank you, that brings tears to my eyes. I really do love her and due to my frustration I feel like I'm not a good enough mom. It's so good to hear that I'm doing okay. My dh tells me that a lot, but it's good to hear it from someone else.

Have a good night.

Isobel
angelsmama is offline  
Old 01-13-2003, 03:35 PM
 
Eosine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Alberta
Posts: 260
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hey angelsmamm, have you tried any elimination yet? You can start by eliminating all sugar - that includes white bread!

You can make cookies with things like apple sauce instead of sugar-or Use Splenda-it's a little more expensive but the body doesn't recognize it as sugar and it gets passed out without causing troubles that artificial sweeteners cause.

You can make popsicles with 100% fruit juice.

Add fruit and 100% apple juice to non sweetened plain yogurt. I find all these things taste sweet without sugar! The fruit and yogurt mixture are a great dessert when frozen!

I find cheerios don't need sugar to sweeten them!

There's a new "milk" made with flax seed if you want to start eliminating milk. You would then be adding omega fatty acids to the diet instead as well. If you use any soy products as a replacement, don't give it more than once a day.


Any other diet suggestions for change?

I found none of the elimination solved my son's problem altogether, but he does get even more hyper when someone lets him eat things like fruit loops at their house!
Eosine is offline  
Old 01-31-2003, 10:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
angelsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hello,

Yesterday she was diagnosed with ADHD.

I'm looking for others who have children (especially dd's) who have been diagnosed with ADHD. I'm feeling sad and confused : and maybe even a little hopeful. I put about 10 books on hold @ the library. Including one about a diet to help with ADD/ADHD.

I definitely do NOT want her to know of her diagnosis. I don't want her to think there is something wrong with her. I absolutely will not medicate her. I too have been diagnosed with ADHD (about 2 yrs ago).

Any insight/suggestions would be great.

Thank you.

angelsmama
angelsmama is offline  
Old 02-01-2003, 03:29 AM
mfm
 
mfm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: vancouver, wa
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
angelsmama,

I wish I could offer you some wisdom on ADHD in a child, but I know very little about it. I *have* heard though that sometimes children get misdiagnosed and that the real problem is food sensitivities. Maybe the book on diet for ADHD will be very helpful. I sure hope so.

Kudos to you for choosing not to medicate.

Hang in there.

mfm
mfm is offline  
Old 02-01-2003, 12:04 PM
 
Mommasgirls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: NH
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by angelsmama
[ I absolutely will not medicate her. I too have been diagnosed with ADHD (about 2 yrs ago).

We are in the process of having my 5.5yo evaluated for ADHD,OCD,and Tourettes. I KNOW she has ADHD-she's the same way I was as a child and I have ADHD. I am going to do everything in my power to keep from medicating her-but I realize that I may have to at first to get things under control. I just wanted to let you know there is a nonstimulant medication available now. It does not have the side effects of the ritalin type drugs. I agree that you should look at her diet first but please don't rule out medication if it is neccessary for her.
Here is a link to the nonstimulant medication www.strattera.com
Mommasgirls is offline  
Old 02-01-2003, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
angelsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 143
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Wow, thank you! I will look into it right now. (And maybe I can take it when my dd weans (3+ years from now).)

My dh thinks medication is an option we should consider after trying behavior modification strategies. I just hated the idea of my little on on stimulants or anti-depressants.

Have a great day!

angelsmama
angelsmama is offline  
Old 02-01-2003, 04:34 PM
 
Mommasgirls's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: NH
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yeah I am the same way and we have a history of addicitive personalities in our family.So the medication would have been a last option type of thing. Also Dr. Sears has a book on ADD/ADHD. I have it-but haven't read it yet.
Good luck I know how hard it is to be going through this.
Mommasgirls is offline  
Old 02-01-2003, 05:36 PM
 
Eosine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Alberta
Posts: 260
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm glad to hear you have a point in which to look into for improvements now. I can understand why you don't want her to feel there's anything "wrong" with her....because there isn't! She's a beautiful child with a bit of challenge in her life right now! Right now she doesn't need anything but love and direction.

Proper medication can do absolutely wonders for the behaviors that were the initial concern. My son went on risperdal and he became huggy and happy, and stopped banging his head around! He also did not get any side effects because his dosage is closely monitored. Monitoring dosage as the child grows is extremely important! The medication is also non-addictive.

He now an active grade 5 student with lots of A and B grades! He was told of his diagnosis because he kept asking why he had tics (he was 7). I sat down and explained tourettes syndrome to him, and at the time there were kids with the disorder on one of the afternoon shows, they were singing and tap dancing. They were wonderful beautiful kids, and I showed him the tape. He also had a great therapist available through his school. There are also doctors and such with the same thing, and I told him about that. He knows he's one of a large group of wonderful people! He'll still have his bad days, nothing like he was! His main problem right now is anger management, and he'll always be very active, but he has friends and loves math! He also just got 94% on his last spelling test! Right now he's doing homework, and needs a little redirection when he gets frustrated, but he is so motivated to "get it right"!


*** Risperdal is not for ADHD though! My son has a dopamine imbalance (tourettes), and that is not the same as ADHD! People with schizophrenia also use risperdal. (Medications used for ADHD make tourettes and schizophrenia worse..worse angry outbursts, more unreasonable thinking..if this happens to your child with an ADHD diagnosis you know the diagnosis is incorrect-this did not happen to us though because his tics were a clear indication of tourettes and he was monitored for six months, five days a week by the best specialist in Alberta)

I have no advices for ADHD myself, but it sounds like you have some great moms here with experience! I've just shared a bit of my experience, and hope you get a lot of support and information that helps your dd live up to her fullest potential.

For anyone who's curious, my sons tics include eye rolling, shoulder movements, dolphin-like noises, jumping, "huffing", etc. Some days he'll tic all day, others you don't even see one!
Eosine is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off