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#121 of 192 Old 08-23-2006, 03:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by majazama
oh, I see. Maybe let her run naked when the other kids aren't around? Do you think that your DD would purposely pee on new furniture? that would suck. And try going outdoors a lot. If it's too hot, maybe go to a lake or something... somewhere, where she can enjoy the freedom of not wetting herself, cause when you're outside, the pee just goes into the ground, and fertilizes the grass, trees, etc.

I just don't know why a kid shouldn't be potty learned by this age (not to pick on you, sydnee, BTW) After seeing my friend's kid poop on the potty at 6 months and my neice, whos 8 months old use the potty regularly, and wait till shes on the potty before peeing, I don't know how some kids can still be having problems with it at almost 4 years old. Do you think its a control issue? Maybe is she jealous of the other kids you look after? Are there younger ones that still wear diapers?

best of luck!
Good grief, so my child isn't "normal" because she isn't using the potty yet???: I'm sorry, I was asking for advice, I don't need to be belittled because my parenting skills might not be up to someone else's standards.

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#122 of 192 Old 08-23-2006, 03:59 PM
 
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I'm sorry you took offense, Sydnee... The only tip consistently being doled out here has been the naked time thing, and you had mentioned that wouldn't work for you. Take the rest with a grain of salt and do what you have been doing to get your DD using the potty. It's water off a duck's back. Obviously some kids just take longer to learn for various reasons. I know I can't get my foster DD to do *anything* she doesn't want to do, so I can imagine your frustration at wanting her to use the potty. Check the Elimination Communication or Diapering forums for tips other moms have used for teaching older kids to use the potty. Or start a new thread in The Childhoos Years. And don't leave our tribe just because of one topic. You may have just caught us on a bad day.

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#123 of 192 Old 08-23-2006, 04:09 PM
 
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As incredibly helpful as all that preaching was, I know what EC is and have been attempting to practice it with DD since she was 18 months old and stopped wetting on the floor. Turns out learning her signals didn't immediately lead to potty training! In fact, it didn't for another 18 months.

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#124 of 192 Old 08-23-2006, 04:38 PM
 
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i've actually enjoyed reading the topic at hand.
a friend of mine's dd did not potty learn until 4ish i think. i don't remember her exact age. It became a problem when the preschool she was going to would not accept any kids who wore diapers. X wanted to go to the preschool, but not bad enuf to quit wearing her diapers. her mom was frustrated, but allowed her dd to move at her own pace, and of course eventually she was ready when everyone stopped making such a big deal about it. imo there was nothing "wrong" with the parents or the child. each family has their individual components that make us what we are, for better or worse. and we all do things differently, and at dif speeds.

my dd's diapers were sold by the time she was two- night time diapers and everything. we always had a potty out, and she was just the kind of kid that took well to using it from an early age, and was able to hold her bladder for long periods of time. we also did a lot of naked time. i agree that that factor may be a really large component to successuflly EC'ing. and , fwiw, IMO , if you don't start this from an early age, EC'ing at 18 might not provide as successful results, bc by that age they have "accepted" diapers as the norm rather then prefering to be dry. ok, i don't know if i was able to communicate that well, but my point is, the earlier the better, imo.
she has had accidents here and there, but i certainly don't think it was bc i "forced" her to potty learn at an early age.
fwiw, this child seems to go to the bathroom less at night then i do.
but she still wakes up occassionally, and i take her, and then all is well.
one time she went by her self- i walked in and witnessed it all , totally dumbounded. but usually she cries out in her sleep and it takes her a while to realize that the problem is that she is uncomfortable bc she has to pee!
is this how it is for some of your kids?

ok, back to unpacking boxes and trying to maintain sanity on serious sleep deprivation from this week's chaos.
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#125 of 192 Old 08-23-2006, 07:21 PM
 
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I'm sorry you took offense, Sydnee... The only tip consistently being doled out here has been the naked time thing, and you had mentioned that wouldn't work for you. Take the rest with a grain of salt and do what you have been doing to get your DD using the potty. It's water off a duck's back. Obviously some kids just take longer to learn for various reasons. I know I can't get my foster DD to do *anything* she doesn't want to do, so I can imagine your frustration at wanting her to use the potty. Check the Elimination Communication or Diapering forums for tips other moms have used for teaching older kids to use the potty. Or start a new thread in The Childhoos Years. And don't leave our tribe just because of one topic. You may have just caught us on a bad day.
Thank you And I wouldn't never leave a forum because of something someone disagreed with me about. It's very frustrating, because she WAS potty trained and poopy trained for about 3 weeks, and then BAm, decided she wasn't going to do it anymore. I definatly think it's a power issue, so I've tried ignoring it, but that doesn't seem to work either. I think I will do the naked time, and just have her in sundresses, so noone "sees" anything. Thanks again, mamas, for the tips!!

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#126 of 192 Old 08-23-2006, 11:24 PM
 
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we got an aquarium from freecycle today, and are going to get some fish friday.
anyone have fish?
we want something low maintenance to start, maybe work our way up to something cool.
any insight would be useful.
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#127 of 192 Old 08-24-2006, 04:00 AM
 
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hey there everyone! why can't i get notified?

i got a mention (in rynna's post!)

so reed didn't train until 4. clay trained at the same time. ruby could have been completely day trained before this year but it was just too convenient to use a diaper than stop what she was doing so it was on and off for a good nine months. then it got too stinking hot and uncomfortable to wear one. she still wears one at night. the other day i had to do five errands and she asked for one. by then i wanted one for me too.

one thing to know about training is that for many children it is not just a complete change with the first success. it can also be an up and down thing as with weaning, and this just depends on many factors including temperment and ability. reed has always had a hard time dressing himself, just to start. his perception of his physical body is simply different. he really just didn't pay attention to the functions aside from infant notice (later in life it would be super frequent peeing) and i always changed him moving (probably my first mistake). he would just sit in that horrible stinker. kinda put off my social life at the time.

then there is practicality. maybe they don't like the bathroom/baths. smells and safety. privacy and company. girls have to sit down regardless and wipe generally, boys tend to be trained with two different modes and it is perhaps hard to pee standing up when you are short into a big toilet, or remember to press on your penis to stream it down, and wiping protocol is different. don't even get me started on how toilets are unnatural. now that i think about it, i got my boys peeing in the bathtub first just because they needed to imitate dad. and dad started it cos his back was hurt......

they will potty train before adolescence. and then you have to worry about public bathrooms and kids that are cranky and need to pee while you are stuck in traffic or in a checkout line and boys that pee in undesirable locations. diapers are a convenience for a reason. if you feel totally whacked out about pottying, take a break and enjoy the modern convenience. enjoy a long car, train, boat or plane ride.

yes it is all part of the adventure!

one thing i did to get ruby going again was having her go to the bathroom with me, like a ritual, her on the potty and me on the toilet. and some kids hate the little potties, like my boys. they needed the baby bjorn adapter. i also forbade them the privilege of flushing for fun unless attempted to put in product!

and i'm realizing how contrived in the end it got for me. one has to figure balance of convenience versus natural ideal. of course when something hits my absolute limit all gracious beliefs go out the window and i just get it done somehow because otherwise i will go insane, or else decide to completely give up and pretend it isn't there until i can get myself to par. most important is not to hassle yourself and your child about it. in the long run it is NOT A BIG DEAL. we should be having fun in the meantime! and generally with my kids, the more excess energy i invest, the more it is not about the original subject, it is stuff that becomes part of my relationship with them, an elaborate game they play thinking it is a special thing to do with mamma. must step back if that is detected.
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#128 of 192 Old 08-24-2006, 09:03 AM
 
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but she still wakes up occassionally, and i take her, and then all is well.
one time she went by her self- i walked in and witnessed it all , totally dumbounded. but usually she cries out in her sleep and it takes her a while to realize that the problem is that she is uncomfortable bc she has to pee!
is this how it is for some of your kids?
Bean *usually* takes himself now, but sometimes (usually after long days, when he's sleeping really deeply) will wake & whimper. BooBah does the wake and whimper at least twice a night. She refuses even her nighttime diapers, though, so...

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#129 of 192 Old 08-24-2006, 01:12 PM
 
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ruby could have been the fastest to train ever for me, but it would have meant overextending myself. now with the nighttime, i am just feeling so grateful to not have to have the feeling vigilance of waking up at night after 8 years, that i guess what i'm doing could be considered the course of laziness.
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#130 of 192 Old 08-24-2006, 01:35 PM
 
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Lindy does the half-awake whimpering thing sometimes at night if she needs to pee, and sometimes she wakes up enough to tell me she needs to go. She never takes herself to pee, even in the daytime, so I'd drop dead of astonishment if she did it in the middle of the night. (During the day, she will often go do everything herself except wiping - sometimes even wiping - but she always tells me first that she needs to go and waits for me to suggest that she go get started on it without me.) We did EC, and she was regularly using the toilet long before she could do any of it by herself - maybe that's one reason why she hasn't been very independent with it; she just got used to always having me there to help her. But mostly I think she's just not the type who likes to do things for herself.
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#131 of 192 Old 08-24-2006, 03:05 PM
 
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Well, I sat down with her and talked this morning, about how I wasn't giving her pullups anymore, and she is going to have to go on the toilet, or soil in her underwear. We talked about what it will feel like to poop and pee in her unders, and she didn't like the thought of that. This morning she pooped AND peed on the toilet, NO problem!!!!! I know it was just a power struggle with her, sheesh... Anyway, thanks again for the tips!! It's amazing how different our kids can be, Rachel was potty trained by 2, and it was no effort on my part, I asked her if she wanted underwear, she sadi yes, and from then on pooped and peed in the toilet. Hardly any accidents!

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#132 of 192 Old 08-24-2006, 04:00 PM
 
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Ladies! I haven't been getting notices for this or the MSN group. I just realized that I missed you guys and came see what was up.

GA starts preschool in 2 weeks. She is excited and totally ready for this but leaving Isabel is going to be huge. She is really like a part of our family. When we were in SF (remember she is then 24/7 with both her parents and my parents) after about a week she started saying every few hours that she missed Isabel. I need some advice about this transition. She has a half day the tuesday after labor day then start full time that thursday. She could go to Isabel's tuesday. Do you think that is a good idea or would it be too confusing to her. I also can let her take a day off school and go to Isabel's every now and then. What do you guys think?

Potty: GA has been potty learned since she was about 2.5 but still wears a diaper every night and wakes up soaked. Any suggestions?

Amy
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#133 of 192 Old 08-24-2006, 04:57 PM
 
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Potty: GA has been potty learned since she was about 2.5 but still wears a diaper every night and wakes up soaked. Any suggestions?
Does she really wake up soaked, or wake up dry and then pee shortly after waking? One thing I learned from doing EC is that even babies don't normally pee while sleeping. So she's probably peeing either during brief night wakings, or maybe only when she first wakes up in the morning.

Lindy just told me, "Look at me and think how wonderful I am while I bounce around."
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#134 of 192 Old 08-25-2006, 12:22 AM
 
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Zachary has been dry at night for a long time. I just stopped putting diapers on him one night and he stopped peeing. Julianna has only been dry at night for a couple weeks now. Diapers are definitely a convenience. I notice that Kaylee usually pees as soon as I take her diaper off, but I still haven't started putting her on the potty. I have only done it once since she's been here! I guess I should move the diapers to the bathroom so I am reminded to do it.

So, I always kill my fish. : I've had betas and goldfish. But let me know how it goes, Mona!

Abranger I think regular visits with Isabel would be good for GA. One day a week might be enough to make the transition smooth. Hopefully she'll love school so much it will take her mind off of what she's missing...

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#135 of 192 Old 08-25-2006, 12:45 AM
 
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DD just potty learned herself abnout a week ago... she won't poop on the potty, it makes her nervous, so she requests a diaper for that (which has to be instantly changed).
The thing about nights is that she often asks for a diaper but when she wears one, 90% of the time she wakes up dry or with just a teeny dribble (so we think that it's dry) then she runs in and asks to be taken to the potty.
BUT, the two times we put her to sleep without a diaper, she peed the bed. :

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#136 of 192 Old 08-25-2006, 01:27 AM
 
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mona, how big is the tank and does it have a heater and a pumping filter? i've been doing the fish thing this summer. goldfish don't need heat, but get the basic kind. betta males are pretty but don't live easily with other fish especially the little fast ones that will nip at their fins. black tetras or other tetras in numbers of four or more are good to start a tank. a ten gallon tank is easier to keep than smaller. you'll need dechlorinator and get this called "cycle" to help get the water fish friendly faster. change water as often as you can stand. we have had guppies and like them but my big free tank leaked and would not reseal so i moved them alot and ended up with two females in the one gallon starter. last week the last one died and then i see there is a baby. go figure. my kids have developed a somewhat calloused attitude due to dying fish. there's been tears and graves and weighing moral concern over monetary when the pet store wanted to actually see the dead fish so i unearthed them, and then when we get there they just threw them in the trash. it's been wild.
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#137 of 192 Old 08-25-2006, 01:37 AM
 
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here's what the montessori book from the library i just picked up says abt obedience. stage one: up to 18 mo no obedience. stage two 18 mo to 4 y, transition period. "key to this period is creating a safe environment so that he can explore freely without you having to constantly say no", time must be taken to explain things. period when children are sensitive to order and is important to establish routines for security.

i picked up a parenting book last week that i have really liked and want to buy for me and friends to work on, after not reading any for over a year i guess. its called 12 simple secrets real moms know. i've been doing much better lately just because of it.
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#138 of 192 Old 08-25-2006, 08:43 AM
 
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she wakes up soaked every morning. of course before bed she nurses, has some water and some soy milk. We are trying to wean her from all of those liquids before bed. the problem is that she has no interest in giving up the diaper. she will sometimes wait until she has her diaper on then say 'do I have a diaper on? can I pee?' I really would not care except that she has pretty much outgrown all of her wraps and I don't want to buy a bigger size. :
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#139 of 192 Old 08-25-2006, 12:21 PM
 
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she wakes up soaked every morning.
I was just wondering whether you knew for sure she was already soaked when she woke up, or whether she might actually be peeing as soon as she woke up. Sometimes it can be hard to tell which is happening, if you don't check the diaper the instant she wakes. But it sounds like you know for sure she's peeing during the night.
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#140 of 192 Old 08-25-2006, 04:12 PM
 
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she wakes up soaked every morning. of course before bed she nurses, has some water and some soy milk. We are trying to wean her from all of those liquids before bed. the problem is that she has no interest in giving up the diaper. she will sometimes wait until she has her diaper on then say 'do I have a diaper on? can I pee?' I really would not care except that she has pretty much outgrown all of her wraps and I don't want to buy a bigger size. :
It depends on when she actually goes; if she's wetting in the middle of the night, during the deepest part of her sleep cycle, then she's simply not physically capable of remaining dry at night. Restricting liquids before bedtime might work, but in my personal opinion it's unfair and it won't necessarily work (I remember this from my own childhood). If she's not physically able to stay dry at night, I'd risk investing in bigger wraps; it might be a while (I was twelve before I was able to reliably keep from wetting the bed at night. )

If she's going shortly before she wakes up, you can wake up a bit earlier and take her to the bathroom; this way she can learn what it feels like to need to pee and get up (eventually) on her own. This is what I do with BooBah; she always goes at the lightest part of her sleep cycle, so I've learned to wake up and take her to the bathroom. I guess I've got it easy because I have a nursing Bella who wriggles in the middle of the night; because I've been nursing for so long, and cosleeping, I'm totally attuned to the slightest wriggles of the kidlets. Because Bella is nursing, I actually have to wake up, kind of, anyway.

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#141 of 192 Old 08-25-2006, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
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amy~ I had the thought that perhaps GA is allergic to something she eats on a regular basis, as that can be a reason why they keep wetting the bed after regular PL. I forget where I heard that, but from pictures I've seen of your DD, shes very fair, and probably very sensitive to foods.

just a thought to throw out there.
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#142 of 192 Old 08-26-2006, 03:34 AM
 
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jaz, that's an interesting idea, and is worth looking into.
i think staying dry at night is a different ballgame from daytime though. depends on the kid and all that. you sure are blessed with some super girls, and they with you.

again, using the toilet is a skill that eventually comes around. yes, modern times and diapers and such have altered the natural animal original model. but as long as we can manage with what we have, there is no need to be distressed or concerned. they are still very little, even though they seem so big. my kids have always tended to pee more at night in the first years.

right now i'm grateful for any use of the diaper because for at least six months which seemed forever early last year with clay, he outright refused the night diapers but couldn't wake up enough to get to the toilet. for a long time i would just take him if he was tossing and turning and it would be done. after awhile he decided it was a problem so he would simply scream, and then i would carry him to the toilet and he would wake up feeling confused and violated and then would refuse to pee until he would be wet, and then get mad all over again and i would clean him up and change his clothes, all which upset him more, and then i would have to work calming him down and getting him back to bed all over again without waking everyone else, and he would be cranky cranky cos he already needs more sleep than the other two and it is hard to keep him in bed in the morning for the appropriate time.

maybe i didn't handle it as sweetly and perfectly as i could have - he certainly has an acute middle child syndrome and extremely sensitive boy focused aspects to his personality - but i am grateful grateful for the use of the diaper. it works.

if it is so ridiculous or annoying or crazy and a mamma has the will and time to focus much of her energy on this one thing, then certainly there are steps that can be taken to encourage and see what is possible. but i would rather purposely sleep deprive myself with a nice movie occasionally than for attempted everynight pottying.
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#143 of 192 Old 08-26-2006, 10:44 AM
 
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY JAZ!!!!!


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#144 of 192 Old 08-26-2006, 10:45 AM
 
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btw, i stuff to say in response to the threads at hand, but my house is still filled w/ my in law family types.
so, more later.
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#145 of 192 Old 08-26-2006, 01:06 PM
 
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jaz, that's an interesting idea, and is worth looking into.
i think staying dry at night is a different ballgame from daytime though. depends on the kid and all that. you sure are blessed with some super girls, and they with you.

again, using the toilet is a skill that eventually comes around. yes, modern times and diapers and such have altered the natural animal original model. but as long as we can manage with what we have, there is no need to be distressed or concerned. they are still very little, even though they seem so big. my kids have always tended to pee more at night in the first years.

right now i'm grateful for any use of the diaper because for at least six months which seemed forever early last year with clay, he outright refused the night diapers but couldn't wake up enough to get to the toilet. for a long time i would just take him if he was tossing and turning and it would be done. after awhile he decided it was a problem so he would simply scream, and then i would carry him to the toilet and he would wake up feeling confused and violated and then would refuse to pee until he would be wet, and then get mad all over again and i would clean him up and change his clothes, all which upset him more, and then i would have to work calming him down and getting him back to bed all over again without waking everyone else, and he would be cranky cranky cos he already needs more sleep than the other two and it is hard to keep him in bed in the morning for the appropriate time.

maybe i didn't handle it as sweetly and perfectly as i could have - he certainly has an acute middle child syndrome and extremely sensitive boy focused aspects to his personality - but i am grateful grateful for the use of the diaper. it works.

if it is so ridiculous or annoying or crazy and a mamma has the will and time to focus much of her energy on this one thing, then certainly there are steps that can be taken to encourage and see what is possible. but i would rather purposely sleep deprive myself with a nice movie occasionally than for attempted everynight pottying.
Amen!! And, fwiw, Emma is the middle child too, and VERY sensitive. She's done well the past couple of days, she's been pooping and peeing in the toilet, with a couple accidents here and there. I'm just not going to stress about it anymore.

Busy Mama to three beautiful girls and loving wife to my hubby
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#146 of 192 Old 08-26-2006, 06:15 PM
 
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You're a quarter of a century old, Jaz!

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Hubby guitar.gif, ds (11) REPlaySkateboard04HL.gif, adopted dd (10) notes2.gif, dd (6) dust.gif, dd (1) femalesling.GIF & 3 foster dd's wheelchair.gif upsidedown.gif diaper.gif  

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#147 of 192 Old 08-26-2006, 06:35 PM
 
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HAPPY BIRhDAY JAZZA! : sorry we missed it!
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we love you!!!

 

 

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#148 of 192 Old 08-26-2006, 11:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Awww, thanks! youre all so sweet. Here I am sipping :

(And on the topic of PL, I do agree that night time is different ballgame than daytime. What I do is take H to the potty right before bed, that's it. She was using diapers at night up till 3 yo. I started leaving her without the dipe at night, and for sure, she wet a lot, but I had the bed well protected, and she wanted to go without dipes. She wanted to be a big girl too, like in all the potty-learning books we read to her, and like mommy, and daddy. Now she wets the bed occationally, but usually if I give her something to drink right before bed.)

So, in conclusion.... I'm so happy that my girls don't use dipes anymore.
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#149 of 192 Old 08-27-2006, 12:12 AM
 
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well, the good thing about the potty discussion is that is got the thread really rolling. so now what are we gonna talk about?
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#150 of 192 Old 08-27-2006, 12:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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whens you b-day, virgo casina?
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