Friend's 4yo very violent *graphic & disturbing* - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-14-2006, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
MyCalling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Central NC
Posts: 273
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I seriously don't know what to do. My friend is a single mother and very lenient with her son. He seems to have no sympathy or feelings about hurting anyone or anything. I have seen him have a smug look every time I've witnessed him do anything also (which is the most disgusting part, IMO). He killed a rabbit and a cat at 3yo and is now 4 1/2 and killed another cat. Last week he threatened to kill my dog because HE tripped over her rump. He has also strangled my dog with various ropes and strings before. I've tried to explain why that's not acceptable, but it obviously doesn't work and there's only so much I can do seeing him seldom.

He has jumped up and down on my child's head and scarred his face another time by scratching him, and sat on another son's back pinning him face down on a tile floor and smashed his head into the tiles. Another time threw a brick and cut my son's forehead down to his skull.

After the last cat died I told her he needed counseling. She made excuses for him as usual saying it's "boy stuff" and he'll outgrow it. All of these animals that have died have been "defective." Her uncle said a 4 1/2 year old isn't capable of knowing the results of his actions.: Previously the boy had thrown the cat against a wall, locked it in small toy cages and pots, squeezed it when angry, tried drowning it before in a cage in the bath tub, and when it finally died my friend found it in the tub with water. She said it drowned itself since it liked sleeping in the tub and must not have known there was water in there and had not jumped out because it was sick since she saw it peed blood the night before. : I had told her she needed to give the cat away after hearing about the previous things before it died. She refused.

After the cat died, she said she would never get another animal so I didn't push it about him needing counseling. She now has another cat.: What should I do?

***moderator edit - title description changed***

We welcomed our 3rd , 7th September 23, 2010!
MyCalling is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-14-2006, 07:56 PM
 
momma2girls's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kansas
Posts: 724
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This kid has obvious issues. This is not normal 'boy stuff' If he is killing animals at this age what will he move on to? Keep your kids as far away from him as possible. I wouldn't let mine play supervised with someone like this. Ever.

look at this website this is what comes to mind immediately

www.radkid.org
momma2girls is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 07:59 PM
 
Ruthla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 43,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
This child is a danger to other children, and he obviously needs a lot of help. If his mother isn't willing to get help for him, I might consider a call to CPS.

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 13(homeschooled)
Ruthla is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 08:01 PM
 
MiamiMami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SW FL
Posts: 2,268
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This is definitely a good reason to call cps. THe mother doesn't want to get her child the help he needs. There needs to be some intervention
MiamiMami is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 08:01 PM
 
griffin2004's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: On permanent holiday
Posts: 2,326
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If the mother won't seek help for the child, I'd do it for her by way of an anonymous call to the authorities. Flame me if you want, but this level of cruelty at this age has nothing but trouble written all over it.

The very least I would do is cut off all contact between this child and my home, kids, pets, etc. A bright line needs to be drawn to protect your family and pets.

wild.gif  kickin' it old school
griffin2004 is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 08:04 PM
 
Venice Mamacita's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Posts: 438
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Trust your instincts -- keep your children away from this kid. His behavior is not normal "boy stuff" and it's unlikely he will outgrow it. It's not about his mother being lenient, he needs professional help. Immediately. Your friend is not doing him any favors by explaining away the behavior.

What you describe is a lack of empathy to an extreme degree -- it's called sociopathy in mental health circles. Torturing and killing animals is an early sign of much worse to come. I don't know where you live, but an anonymous call to a child protective services agency wouldn't be out of order if his mother refuses to get him some help.

Best of luck.

Daughter since '68 ~Sister since '72 ~Wife since '97 ~ Mama since DS 5/03& DD 10/08
Venice Mamacita is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 08:11 PM
 
Calidris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Liming in sweet T&T
Posts: 3,802
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sounds like sociopathic behaviour to me. I don't know if early intervention helps in a case like that, but I certainly hope it can.

nothing more to say I guess :
Calidris is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 08:19 PM
 
paxye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 2,836
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agree with the other posters... I have a 4 year old who is very active and not always gentle but never would he do things like what you explained... it is not "normal" boy stuff....

please, he really does need to see someone...

 
~paxye~
Mama to Xavier (July 02) , Colin (Sept 04), Khéna(Nov 06) & Wilhelmina (Jan 10)
paxye is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 08:20 PM
Banned
 
cool_mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ummm...virtually every serial killer started out by killing or torturing animals before moving on to humans. Once a child has seen one animal die, he should understand the consequences. Furthermore, he should understand the sound of pain when the animal (or your child) cries out. That boy definitely needs counseling NOW. If the mother will not give it on her own, then call CPS. Otherwise, we might have another Jeffrey Dahmer, Charles Manson, John Wayne Gacy, etc. on our hands.

BTW: How much attention does that boy get from his parents? The only thing that can harm a child in the long run worse than abuse is neglect. Those are the true sociopaths who do not have any empathy.
cool_mom is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 08:20 PM
Banned
 
2Sweeties1Angel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 3,042
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Eeek! I thought it was scary when I caught my son hitting the chickens with a stick (turns out he just likes to whack various things with sticks and didn't realize he was hurting them) but that is BEYOND scary. That child needs help and he needs it now. Kids like that can very easily grow up to be serial killers or mass murderers.
2Sweeties1Angel is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 08:32 PM
 
angelpie545's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Near water, with a refreshing rain
Posts: 6,466
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This is very serious. If your friend cannot make the efforts to get her son help, then I would call CPS immediately. This child has the potential to turn into a serial killer or an otherwise very dangerous person, and at this point he needs intense therapy. Also, I would not let your son and her son at all, or let him into your house. Explain to your friend that this is for you, your family, and your pet's own protection. I'd stand my ground with her, absolutely. It may seem rude but this kid needs help, and now.

Bethany, crunchy Christian mom to Destiny (11) Deanna (9), and Ethan (2)

angelpie545 is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 08:35 PM
 
Peppamint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Not here
Posts: 12,887
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruthla
This child is a danger to other children, and he obviously needs a lot of help. If his mother isn't willing to get help for him, I might consider a call to CPS.
I agree!
Peppamint is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 08:35 PM
 
EastonsMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cabot, AR
Posts: 779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Call CPS now!!!! That kind of behavour only worsens! Never allow anybody you love around him or his mom. If she sees nothing wrong with it she needs ever more help, she should know better! Where is the boys dad? Family?
EastonsMom is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 08:35 PM
 
elsasmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
You must not let this child play with your child anymore. It is doing serious physical and psychological harm to your child. I would never talk to this mother again, and I would probably report her to CPS. This is so, so bad for your child to be around. It's psychotic.
elsasmommy is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 09:08 PM
 
PikkuMyy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: hmmm
Posts: 7,271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Yup. Sociopathic behavior. This child is crying out for help. I would also call CPS if she refuses to do anything about it.

Early intervention specialist and parent consultant since 2002.
PikkuMyy is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
 
MyCalling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Central NC
Posts: 273
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I have considered calling CPS. I have never done so figuring I could find a way to help her out without CPS. She started voluntary Parenting Classes through CPS because she didn't know how to handle him not listening to her. While at these classes he would hurt other children and even started whaling on her physically and even the CPS worker told her to spank him! She refuses to spank him, but there isn't any other form of discipline either. He does something wrong, frantically repeates "Sorry, sorry, sorry" to her smiling and she threatens that next time he'll get a spanking (which never happens). That's it. Ever. Anyway, these classes did no good and she has since quit.

When he jumped up and down on my sons' head, he never showed any emotions about it besides smugness until his mother threatened to break his DVD when they got home. Then he started screaming and crying saying "Sorry, sorry mommy." Never sorry to my son, nor did she make him.:

If I did call CPS, what would they do? Could I try anything with her first? I swore I would tell her to never bring him around the next time he hurt my kids, then he threatened to kill my dog and by the time she came to pick him up, I had chickened out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by momma2girls
look at this website this is what comes to mind immediately

www.radkid.org
I didn't know what it was called, but I have tried talking to her about this disorder. That's when she told me it was normal boys stuff and her uncle said he couldn't understand his actions. I completely disagree. He knows, you can see it on his face. He takes pleasure in hurting people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cool_mom
BTW: How much attention does that boy get from his parents? The only thing that can harm a child in the long run worse than abuse is neglect. Those are the true sociopaths who do not have any empathy.
She has him in day care all day which I normal don't agree with but I think this may be the only place he gets consistant punishments for anything he does (time outs). At home she sits him in front of the tv watching movies most of the time. They have a tiny apartment and he seems to destroy things (the things were "faulty" also) whenever he's not a zombie watching tv. She doesn't give him a bedtime either and wakes him before 6am for day care so he doesn't get much sleep.

We welcomed our 3rd , 7th September 23, 2010!
MyCalling is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 09:12 PM
 
Ruthla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 43,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
I'd call CPS. They can force her to get counseling for him, or put him in foster care if she doesn't. In this case, it sounds like his issues may be too severe for her to handle, and he may be better off living elsewhere.

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 13(homeschooled)
Ruthla is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
 
MyCalling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Central NC
Posts: 273
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ok, so how should I tell her in a way she might reap some benefit that I don't want her child around mine anymore? Now remember I'm a coward and don't want to hurt her feelings, nor make her brush this all off thinking it's me with the problem and keep making excuses for her kid! :

Ruthla, wow if they take him away she would flip out! She truly thinks she is a wonderful mother and people are jealous of how cute her little red-haired son is. Meanwhile I'm thinking people are not jealous those are actually looks of disgust by the way he's acting in public!

We welcomed our 3rd , 7th September 23, 2010!
MyCalling is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 09:18 PM
 
Ruthla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 43,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
There's probably nothing you can do to convince her that it's HER kid with the problem if she insists on buying her head in the sand. Just tell her that her DS frightens you and you don't want him around your family or your pets. If she wants to think you're being an overprotective bitch, let her think that.

Ruth, single mommy to Leah, 19, Hannah, 18 (commuting to college), and Jack, 13(homeschooled)
Ruthla is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 09:23 PM
 
Venice Mamacita's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Posts: 438
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Like I said, I don't know where you live, but hopefully CPS would invesitagate and require the child be in psychotherapy at the very least.

I want to very strongly emphasize that this is not an issue of discipline (or lack thereof) -- this is an issue of safety. It is illegal to torture and kill animals -- at any age -- and this boy's mother's inaction constitutes neglect.

If intervention does not take place immediately, he will be lost forever. Wouldn't you call for help if he were bleeding?

Daughter since '68 ~Sister since '72 ~Wife since '97 ~ Mama since DS 5/03& DD 10/08
Venice Mamacita is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 09:31 PM
Banned
 
boongirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: a place where freedom lives
Posts: 4,450
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiMami
This is definitely a good reason to call cps. THe mother doesn't want to get her child the help he needs. There needs to be some intervention
I would agree with this and call them asap. There is tons of research showing that killers often start with animals as children. This is a very sick child who needs help asap before he kills a child, or another animal. I would honestly consider this an emergency and also report him to the police. I don't know about where you live but in WA state it is illegal to kill a pet.

And, I would not worry one iota about how to tell her you don't want her son around your child. Just tell her as simply as possible that you are scared by his behavior and worried about your child getting hurt. She needs to be told the truth so she can assist in getting him the help he needs. If you pad the truth to spare her feelings you will not be giving her the message that this is a very serious issue, which it is. Be respectful, but blunt and simple.
boongirl is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 09:41 PM
 
guestmama9924's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Conch Republic
Posts: 2,227
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyCalling
He has also strangled my dog
He has jumped up and down on my child's head
smashed his head into the tiles.
Another time threw a brick and cut my son's forehead down to his skull.

After the last cat died I told her he needed counseling.
that sounds like conduct disorder, and it can lead ( and it DOES lead) to serious anti-social behavior including the behavior known to those incarcerated for serial murders. no I am not being flipant. I am serious.
http://health.discovery.com/encyclop...le=2834&page=1
THere are many articles on the link between hurting animals and later hurting people, that is very serious. If it was ME, I would talk to couselors/teachers at school ( if they attend the same school) and let the parent know that they cannot turn their back on any illness the child has , including mental.

Violent acts toward animals have long been recognized as indicators of a violent psychopathology that does not confine itself to animals. "Anyone who has accustomed himself to regard the life of any living creature as worthless is in danger of arriving also at the idea of worthless human lives," wrote humanitarian Albert Schweitzer. "Murderers...very often start out by killing and torturing animals as kids," according to Robert K. Resler, who developed
profiles of serial killers for the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). Studies have now convinced sociologists, lawmakers, and the courts that acts of cruelty toward animals deserve our attention. They can be the first sign of a violent pathology that includes humans.
guestmama9924 is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 09:49 PM
 
AutumnMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest US
Posts: 4,333
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
His behavior is extremely disturbing, and I agree with the other posters that something needs to be done. NOW.
Hopefully this can be stopped and reversed before he moves beyond killing/torturing animals and onto humans
AutumnMama is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
MyCalling's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Central NC
Posts: 273
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Here's another aspect that worries me. If I were to do both call and tell her I don't want her son around, she'll know I was the one to call and she would retaliate by calling them on me! She would and has on her child's father for calling on her about sexual acting out by this boy (which is one of the signs on the RAD link).

I know she would call on me in a heartbeat and as she said "do whatever it takes to get their kids taken away." Including lie and exagerate. I have a: homebirthed (one without birth cert), homeschooled, unvaxed, no checkups, 2 kids sleep in our room, two share a bed in another - family. They are also always dirty since they play outside all day and track it in no matter how much cleaning I do. I'm sure you all understand our lifestyle and why I'm hesitant.

We welcomed our 3rd , 7th September 23, 2010!
MyCalling is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 10:01 PM
 
Nickarolaberry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Running away...
Posts: 4,468
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This is terrible.

Call CPS right now. Today.

And, frankly, I also would not care one bit about hurting her feelings when telling her she can't bring him near you or yours. She clearly has no compunction about her son hurting yours. You have to be the mama bear here and protect yourself and your family. He cannot come within fifty feet of you, your kid, your premises, your dog, your sofa, nothing.

This is a really bad thing waiting to happen....

 "Now bid me run, and I will strive with things impossible." (William Shakespeare -- Julius Caesar)

Nickarolaberry is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 10:04 PM
 
StephandOwen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 8,613
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyCalling
Ok, so how should I tell her in a way she might reap some benefit that I don't want her child around mine anymore? Now remember I'm a coward and don't want to hurt her feelings, nor make her brush this all off thinking it's me with the problem and keep making excuses for her kid! :
Let's backtrack a minute here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyCalling
He has jumped up and down on my child's head and scarred his face another time by scratching him, and sat on another son's back pinning him face down on a tile floor and smashed his head into the tiles. Another time threw a brick and cut my son's forehead down to his skull.
I don't envy your position, but put those images of your children bleeding, crying, screaming, whatever was happening in your head right now. Not a pretty picture, was it? Now go call you friend, write her a letter, email her, whatever and tell her that you will not sit back and let her son harm your children. Mama, those were not just little bruises- he's really hurting your kids! Please do not wait around until something more serious happens. This child needs help. He may be put in foster care for a while until his mom knows how to provide this help but if you do nothing- can you live guilt free if he seriously harms or kills another child?

Steph, DH Jason (1-1-11), DS Owen (10-3-03) and DS Kai (10-13-11)

StephandOwen is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 10:24 PM
 
mom2olivia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Northeast US
Posts: 729
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I feel terrible for the position you are in, but you need to tell her that her son was a bit too rough for your liking during his last visit and to ensure the safety of your children and your dog you simply cannot allow him in your home.
mom2olivia is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 10:28 PM
 
frannyfresh's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: in the house
Posts: 169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Very disturbing situation. When I was growing uo there were quite a few boys like the one you discribe and they ended murdering people when they became teenagers. Stay away from this kid
frannyfresh is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 10:37 PM
 
jlutgendorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Please, if you don't call CPS, at least call Animal Control, The Humane Society, SPCA, whoever is incharge of animal welfare in your town and see if you can't at least get the cat taken in to custody so it's doesn't have live out the rest of it's sad, short life, tortured and abused.

See what you can do to get her family put on the blacklist of your shelters and rescues so she won't be allowed to adopt. (though it won't stop her from being able to answer "free to good home" ads).

Even that much may save the life of a helpless animal and start some sort of documentation about her sons behaviour. And even if she calls the same people on you, I doubt that your childrens dr.s records will warrant taking your dog away.

Sending you some (((vibes))) to help you with this difficult task.

~Julia
jlutgendorf is offline  
Old 08-14-2006, 10:38 PM
 
bobandjess99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Northern IN
Posts: 5,835
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'd call CPS.
This is serious.
This child will progress to hurting more and more people, and eventually to murder.
Unfortunately, there is likely very little that can be done, short of lifetime incarceration.
You must stop being this persons friend, and under no circumstances let your child near this child.
Think of it this way..if you knew a convicted rapist/murderer lived down the block, would you let your kid visit?
That's what this little kid is....just a few years down the road.
Protect your child.

CPST
bobandjess99 is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off