Oh My G*D! 16yo boy asks my 3.5yo ds to - UPDATE in post 129 - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 03:03 PM
 
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I don't understand why it matters that he is willing to take a lie detector test...you don't think he hasn't seen Dr. Phil or something? Come on, he would say anything to get out of that, he KNOWS it is wrong. I can't make you do the right thing, I just want you to re-think this. I don't know about you, but at 16 I was pretty smart, and good at lying to my parents no doubt he is just as savvy.

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#62 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Benji'sMom View Post
Was this before he licked your son's face, or before he tried sticking his tongue in your son's mouth? :
this was on Wednesday afternoon and ds1 told me about this incident on Wed night.

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#63 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't understand why it matters that he is willing to take a lie detector test...you don't think he hasn't seen Dr. Phil or something? Come on, he would say anything to get out of that, he KNOWS it is wrong. I can't make you do the right thing, I just want you to re-think this. I don't know about you, but at 16 I was pretty smart, and good at lying to my parents no doubt he is just as savvy.
Believe me, I'm rethinking my decision each minute and have since Wednesday.

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#64 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 03:10 PM
 
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You know, over 90% of investigations of abuse are dismissed (even though sometimes there really is abuse occurring, they just can't determine conclusively that there was). I really think this isn't your call to make. Make a factual report and let the authorities decide in their investigation.

A woman I know had her son develop a bruise in the shape of an adult handprint after coming home from daycare. She reported it, they were not able to make any sort of conclusion, but there was a report on file in case other complaints were made, it would be noted not to be a first report. I think it's important even if it is unlikely that anything will come of it.
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#65 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 03:11 PM
 
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Aren't you wondering at all at how she just suddenly and conveniently "recalls" this conversation that manages to explain it all away? You don't want to think that about someone you know and care about, but people do all kinds of crazy things to protect their family and income.

, , , and
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#66 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 03:15 PM
 
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I know that every time I lied to my parents, I offered to take drugs tests and lie detector tests knowing that 1. they wouldn't make me and 2. they are easy to pass. I was 15, 16...a child yes, but not stupid.
I'd report it.
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#67 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 03:15 PM
 
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QUOTE:
So I talked with L again on Saturday and she recalled a conversation in which she was explaining to ds1 and another daycare kid about "we cannot kiss babies on their mouths because our mouths and tongues have germs". After L was done talking with them, 16yo was near ds1 and the other child and ds1 asked more about our mouths/tongues having germs.

Ummm, my 4 yo old knows about germs. I highly doubt this kid needed to be told about germs. This whole situation stinks.

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#68 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 03:19 PM
 
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Please, Please, Please report this. I greee with the PP that maybe nothing will come of it, but there will be a record of what happened incase there is another incident.

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#69 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by sebarnes View Post
Aren't you wondering at all at how she just suddenly and conveniently "recalls" this conversation that manages to explain it all away? You don't want to think that about someone you know and care about, but people do all kinds of crazy things to protect their family and income.
You know, honestly, no. I know how crazy busy it is there all day long and well, I'm sure a conversation like the one we had really just slapped her in the face. I've always believed her to be an honest person and she is *very* religious.

Honestly now, haven't you ever been surprised by a conversation or turn of events and re-thought the ENITRE day, trying to think of what went wrong, and then suddenly a light bulb goes off?

I will call CPS and find out what would happen next if I made the report. In fact, I just tried, but there are closed today for MLK.

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#70 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I know that every time I lied to my parents, I offered to take drugs tests and lie detector tests knowing that 1. they wouldn't make me and 2. they are easy to pass. I was 15, 16...a child yes, but not stupid.
I'd report it.
my brother used to do that too, but he was older (22).

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#71 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 03:26 PM
 
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I'm so sorry your and your family are going through this. :

My 14yr old stepson lives with us and I've been with his dad since he was 4 years old. I know htis kid verrrrrrry well. He has always had a problem telling the truth, especially if he thinks he's going to get in trouble. One of the ways we have come to KNOW he is lying is if he tells us, "NO... you can ask so & so (mom, teacher, etc)" Every time he throws up the defense of telling us to ask an authority figure, we know he's lying.

The 16yr old offering to take lie detector test doesn't necessarily mean he is telling the truth. Some kids do that in an effort to throw you of their trail. Don't fall for it. Better yet, take him up on the offer. Even if it's not admissible in court, it might be what you need to put your mind at ease in how you make your decision to report the incident or not.
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#72 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 03:28 PM
 
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I respect your desicion yo're the one that is in the situation if you don't feel right reporting it don't. You know this people better than any online person here. I say trust your instincs on this one either way.

And yes most of the cases os abussed get dismissed if you the person who is making a complaint are not sure about what happened, I would say the chances are that it will be dismissed, again I'm not advising either way just do what feels right to you
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#73 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 03:33 PM
 
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IMO I think it's horrid that so many of you are willing to ruin a family by insisting that she report the DCP. CPS tears apart families regardless of the outcome.


Steph you know you DS better than any of us do, and only you and your DH can determine whether DS is portraying the situation correctly or is skewing things as any 3.5yo normally does. You are doing what's best for your family by removing your children from the situation. My only suggestion is to see if DCP and 16yo are willing to try some counseling as it appears that 16yo is willing to prove that everything is okay.
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#74 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 03:34 PM
 
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I really think this isn't your call to make. Make a factual report and let the authorities decide in their investigation.
Regardless of what the family says in their defense, I would still feel obligated to file a report.
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#75 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 03:55 PM
 
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soygurl, I understand what you are saying and that's partly why I've decided not to file a report. Even though my ds1 has never made up a story like that, I can't help but to think that perhaps his recollection is partly true and partly pretend.
Reporting this is not the same as convicting him. By not reporting it, you are allowing him to continue without HELP. my sister who is a juvenile prosecutor says that this is a prime age for this kind of abuser to get started. And yes, there usually is abuse in the child's past. Or some sort of other mental health issue.

This 16 year old is troubled. His mom died, his dad came out as gay and moved in with another man, and he's living with a stepmom. WITHOUT the indicents you report, this screams a situation where this child needs counseling. And, add the situations you've said and it screams a child (yes, I believe 16 is a child) who is on the path to something worse. He's got lots of unmet needs -- is he trying to fulfill them with inappropriate contact with little kids? It's happened before.

I agree that meeting has no purpose, but really, to not report inappropriate contact that happened TWICE? You are putting other children in danger. Why are you not willing to report it, but also not willing to send your kids back?

Make a factual report. He's a juvenile. He's troubled. You have a moral obligation to report it.

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#76 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 04:09 PM
 
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I have to say you should report this.
This boy could do this to another child and go further with it next time.
I think its our responsibility as parents to keep children protected.
He may need help and does not know what to do, maybe this will be a good way for him to get it.

The little boy that I watch went to a daycare for 4 years and was touched by the providers son.
After CPS stepped in he admitted that he touched EVERY child there.
And there was about 10 children.
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#77 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 04:13 PM
 
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The fact the 16 year old is willing to take a lie detector test doesn't mean anything. I'm a licensed attorney. People can and do beat lie detector tests. The tests are unreliable. They're not admissible in criminal court. So why are you hesitating because the teenager is willing to take a test that is in no way conclusive or reliable?

You have a duty to your child and to other children. Protect them. Stop worrying so much about the sitter's livelihood. Stop worrying about the teen. Stop talking to them! Worry about what your son will think of you years down the road when you haven't done anything about this predator and he does something far worse like raping and sodomizing. You'll have that on your conscience.

Please report this to the licensing authorities and the police. Do it NOW!

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#78 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 04:14 PM
 
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Why are you not willing to report it, but also not willing to send your kids back?
Exactly what I was thinking. If you truly believe it was nothing why would you keep your boys away??? If you feel something inappropriate happened and don't want your boys there why would you leave it alone and risk other kids??
I understand small children sometimes get things mixed up but honestly how does "tongues have germs" turn into "stick your tongue in my mouth"?
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#79 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 04:19 PM
 
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oh my gosh, steph, i am so SO sorry to read that you & your family are going through this. : it must just be tearing you up inside.

i offer no advice or judgment, but wish you strength & solace.

feel free to pm me if you need a hug, to vent, etc. i will be thinking of you.
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#80 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 04:35 PM
 
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So, I really don't know what the whole story is, BUT after careful consideration, I'm not willing to make a report about this under these circumstances. This boy attends the school dh works for and he actually told L that maybe he should switch schools.
I didn't see this. If your husband works for a school, he's probably a mandatory reporter. What are the implications for him if he doesn't report?

And upon second thought too - just what did you expect the 16 yo to say to his mom when she asked him? "Gee mom, I did ask a 3.5 yo to put his tongue in my mouth?" Of COURSE he's going to deny it.

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#81 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 04:53 PM
 
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I read through this, and I think the part that alarmed me the most actually was that the DCP - L - felt a need to even explain to her 16 year old son that he shouldn't kiss babies on the mouth?!?! And said that it was because he had germs?

Is the 16 yo developmentally disabled? I would think that by that age, his adopted mother should no longer be concerned about him kissing other MUCH younger children on the mouth. He should have realized that it's not acceptable behavior on a level that goes much deeper than the germs in your mouth.

He honestly sounds like a very odd young man, not someone I would feel comfortable aiding in the care of my child, and based on the two incidents you've had with him crossing the line into unacceptable behavior, I would file a report with DSHS, or whoever takes care of in-home child care providers.

As the mother of a very very young man, I would be shocked if another parent at my day-care had had this happen to her son and not reported it or informed the other parents.
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#82 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 04:54 PM
 
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IMO I think it's horrid that so many of you are willing to ruin a family by insisting that she report the DCP. CPS tears apart families regardless of the outcome.


Steph you know you DS better than any of us do, and only you and your DH can determine whether DS is portraying the situation correctly or is skewing things as any 3.5yo normally does. You are doing what's best for your family by removing your children from the situation. My only suggestion is to see if DCP and 16yo are willing to try some counseling as it appears that 16yo is willing to prove that everything is okay.
How in the world would a 3 year old come up with the idea of someone sticking their tongue in his mouth unless the idea was presented to him first???????
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#83 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 05:00 PM
 
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16yo told me I had to stick my tongue in his mouth if I wanted to go downstairs to play.
Honestly, this is the part that gets me. My DD has an incredible imagination, but she could NOT make this up. The idea that they were discussing germs and all that has no relevance to this statement-- this kind of statement sounds exactly like what a predator would say.

My opinion is to call as you would call a doctor . . .you call the nurse triage when you aren't sure if you should come, and they assess the situation. Call the pros and let THEM make the decision.

Wouldn't you hope, that if someone else were going through this, that they would do it for YOUR son? How about the other children in the daycare? You know your sons are protected-- what about the others? I think being a preying on children is one of the absolute worst atrocities in this world; it is our ultimate job to protect ALL children. Please reconsider.

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#84 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 05:01 PM
 
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I think in every state, teachers are mandated reporters (I could be wrong though, so please don't yell at me if I'm wrong). However, you could look at it this way - If your DS had told your family doctor or a teacher (if he has one) you can guarantee that they would call CPS. CPS will investigate the incident and file a report. It's quite likely you'll never hear about it - I've filed a few reports and never heard back about the outcome.

In fact it's quite likely that the only people who will know are the family and if they don't tell anybody nobody will ever know they were investigated. It's not like CPS is going to make an announcement on the local news (unless they decide there's some validity to the report and the kid is arrested). It is always a better idea to err on the side of caution, regardless of how difficult it is.

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#85 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 05:09 PM
 
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I support in you in whatever decision you go with. You know your son and this family. You will know the right thing to do.

: for everyone involved

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#86 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I didn't see this. If your husband works for a school, he's probably a mandatory reporter. What are the implications for him if he doesn't report?

And upon second thought too - just what did you expect the 16 yo to say to his mom when she asked him? "Gee mom, I did ask a 3.5 yo to put his tongue in my mouth?" Of COURSE he's going to deny it.

I don't know the answer to that question. He probably is REQUIRED to report. I'll have him follow up with the Prinicipal.

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#87 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I read through this, and I think the part that alarmed me the most actually was that the DCP - L - felt a need to even explain to her 16 year old son that he shouldn't kiss babies on the mouth?!?! And said that it was because he had germs?

.
Umm, I must not have been very clear. L was explaining to the young children in her care (not her son, though he was present during the conversation.) Some of the young children were kissing the mouths of babes - not L's son.

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#88 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 05:47 PM
 
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Umm, I must not have been very clear. L was explaining to the young children in her care (not her son, though he was present during the conversation.) Some of the young children were kissing the mouths of babes - not L's son.
That is what I got from what you read. DC kids were kissing babies not the 16 yr old.

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#89 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 05:49 PM
 
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Man, this is such a terrible situation for you! I really do understand how conflicted you must be feeling. You love this day care provider; she does a great job; you respect her; you dont want to harm her or her business; the idea of falsely reporting child abuse is horrifying and terrifying. I totally get that. How awful it would be for the poor boy and his mom if he truly is innocent and was accused! I would be loathe to report anyone I knew to CPS unless it was really blatant and clear cut. However, I have to say, I agree that what is suspicious to me is the statement, "You have to stick your tongue in my mouth if you want to go downstairs." That kind of conditional bribery thing, coupled with it being the second instance, makes me think I would err on the horrifying idea of calling CPS. The puppy dog kisses comment might have been a three year old's imagination, but this form of description and with the condition........Im sorry you are going through this!
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#90 of 157 Old 01-15-2007, 05:52 PM
 
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Yeah, my grandfather denied molesting me too.

ALWAYS believe your child. Do what is necessary to protect him. And do what you can to ensure the behavior doesn't continue with other children.

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