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#61 of 114 Old 03-17-2007, 11:42 PM
 
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Question: You say your DH isnt alloweed to wash your DD's privates, what happens if you are away and they need baths. I am only asking because my X and I are divorced and I have no choice, I trust him without a doubt BUT....I was touched by my step-dad as a child so i dont feel it is appropriate either but what how would you handle this??

Again, I agree with you but just asking on what would you do thing?
Obviously not the person you asked,but I would think 3 or 4 is old enough to wash their private areas.
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#62 of 114 Old 03-17-2007, 11:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow! As a culture we are so uptight! It's to bad that a young child's curiosity about something so natural is sexualized and interpreted as abuse. It seems to me that the best place for a child's curiosity about body parts to be met is in the home. It's sad that the best that can be done is look at a often less than accurate to real life picture. But just like a PP mentioned we live in this culture and it is our responsibility to keep our children safe within it by not opening up our family to abuse allegations.
I totally agree. Well said.
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#63 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 12:07 AM
 
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my 7 year old dd played an active role in the birth of our newest babe, so she definately got an eyeful would you allow your dc to be there for the birth of another child? this is an interesting discussion & i just thought what about during labor?
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#64 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 02:11 AM
 
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I think this discussion can vary widely depending on the child's age.

Until about 3 or so I think that it is perfectly acceptable and appropriate to show your genitals to your dc.....yes, even spreading your legs.....
I mean if you don't want to that's fine too but I see no reason why it's not OK.

Getting closer to 4 and up (and of course this depends on each child) I would definately approach it differently.....nudity is certainly fine, I think and maybe showing parts but not up close with legs spread......
at this age the child is really aware that he/she is a separate entity and is starting to really become a part of the outside world......

after like 6 or 7 I may get more discreet (but that's me and also I think it depends on the child).......that being said I think nudity in general is fine and natural......but after about 10 or so I imagine my dds may not want to see me walking around naked after a shower.....but haven't crossed that bridge yet.....

but all in all, I'd say that if you have hangups, they probably will too unless you're really conscious about not transferring those hangups......
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#65 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 02:17 AM
 
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I think this discussion can vary widely depending on the child's age.

Until about 3 or so I think that it is perfectly acceptable and appropriate to show your genitals to your dc.....yes, even spreading your legs.....
I mean if you don't want to that's fine too but I see no reason why it's not OK.

Getting closer to 4 and up (and of course this depends on each child) I would definately approach it differently.....nudity is certainly fine, I think and maybe showing parts but not up close with legs spread......
at this age the child is really aware that he/she is a separate entity and is starting to really become a part of the outside world......

after like 6 or 7 I may get more discreet (but that's me and also I think it depends on the child).......that being said I think nudity in general is fine and natural......but after about 10 or so I imagine my dds may not want to see me walking around naked after a shower.....but haven't crossed that bridge yet.....

but all in all, I'd say that if you have hangups, they probably will too unless you're really conscious about not transferring those hangups......
I'm just curious,why do you think it's ok for a younger child to look at your genitals up close and all,but not an older child? And,I hardly call not feeling comfortable and refusing to spread eagle for your kid to see your vagina a "hangup". : It's just not right at ANY age,imho.
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#66 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 02:37 AM
 
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at 2 the child is still so connected to the mama, he/she barely realizes they are separate entities......he has no thought that the genitals are any different than any other part of the body....
at 4 a child is very aware that this is a part of the body that is hidden, a little mystifying, and considered private......

a child at 5 can understand very well that something is private and she is expected to respect that, at 3, not as much......

just as any other aspect of parenting, how you approach things with a child is very dependant on their age and level of consiousness on this earth......

if people are not comfortable showing their vaginas to their children then they shouldn't show it but it does send a message to them......
our society is definately hung up about nudity....whether we like it or not, we're pretty prudish......I'm sure there are many cultures around the world that would find this whole conversation ridiculous.....
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#67 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
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my 7 year old dd played an active role in the birth of our newest babe, so she definately got an eyeful would you allow your dc to be there for the birth of another child? this is an interesting discussion & i just thought what about during labor?
If we knew anyone around here that well, I would, absolutely!!! Maybe I should post something in the Maine tribe! Might be someone willing to let us be there.

As for labor, it would probably be boring to them, and somewhat scary, but then again, if they were able to see / hear some of that, they would be able to be educated about what was really happening. And this is probably a whole other topic, so sorry for hijacking my own thread : , but I'd only do that for a home birth.

probably I would just promise to wake them up when the baby was ready to come out.

Boy, that would probably satisfy the vagina interest for a while.
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#68 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 12:21 PM
 
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if people are not comfortable showing their vaginas to their children then they shouldn't show it but it does send a message to them......
our society is definately hung up about nudity....whether we like it or not, we're pretty prudish......I'm sure there are many cultures around the world that would find this whole conversation ridiculous.....
Yes it send the message that our genitals are our private parts and not to be shared. And the problem with that is? And I would love to know in what culture it is normal to spread your legs and your labia and give a child an up close and personal view of your vagina. yes their are lots of cultures where people are nude but I am pretty sure they are doing doing spread eagle for their kids.

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#69 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 12:44 PM
 
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I agree with many of the mamas here. We are a naked home a lot and my DD has seen me and even my DP naked, she has seen her little friends naked as well. We draw the line at touching and staring. I dont think i would ever be comfortable with really showing her. She knows people are different and that is enough for now. I am all for the educational pictures and stuff i think that is more then okay. I am in the school of thought that the more they know the earlier the safer they will be later. Sex stuff keeps getting younger and younger so the more ahead of the game you are the better.
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#70 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 01:03 PM
 
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I don't think its a matter of being "uptight" if you aren't willing to show your inner privates to your child. We are very lax/comfortable about nudity in our house. Ds sees me naked alot. But when he asked specifically to see exactly where my pee comes out, I simply wasn't comfortable showing him.
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#71 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 01:29 PM
 
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DH, DS and I all took a big happy shower together last night.
DS (2.5 years old) announced "you have a penis dad. I have a penis too. mama has NO penis. She only has a vulva."

Funny -- only a vulva, like I am missing something

Anyhow, we are all naked together, but I would NOT feel comfortable being a human anatomy lesson. DS has asked me a couple of times, and I just say no.
Actually, he was more interested in seeing whether or not I had a penis, not in seeing my vulva.

I find the whole thing quite funny!

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#72 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 01:32 PM
 
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I am not particularly modest at home. Dd and I bathe together sometimes and I dress in front of her. However, personally I don't think I'd feel comfortable with being the focus of an anatomy lesson, and it sounds like the OP has reservations that might make the entire "learning experience" stressful. So I would say no. But I'm not sure I'd judge someone who decided it was OK for them and their family. I think that using books/illustrations is definately the way to go and that the request could also be used as a way to discuss privacy and set up realistic expectations.



Interesting thread.

Happy Mommy to one amazing girl (6y) and one sweet boy (2y), and wife to DH since 7/03 : :
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#73 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 01:41 PM
 
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Yes it send the message that our genitals are our private parts and not to be shared. And the problem with that is? And I would love to know in what culture it is normal to spread your legs and your labia and give a child an up close and personal view of your vagina. yes their are lots of cultures where people are nude but I am pretty sure they are doing doing spread eagle for their kids.
Absolutely. I really doubt one would find any culture where parents who don't wear any/much clothes would spread it for their kids to see.
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#74 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 02:18 PM
 
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I hardly call not feeling comfortable and refusing to spread eagle for your kid to see your vagina a "hangup
Ditto that.
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#75 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 02:28 PM
 
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Ditto that.
Me too. It is almost one of those "I'm more crunchy than thou" threads on TAO, but, it becomes "I'm more comfortable w/my vagina than thou"
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#76 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 03:08 PM
 
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Why does this have to turn from an interesting thread into rediculousness?
Some of us feel comfortable with this others do not. Some of us are somewhere in between. There hasn't been any "crunchier-than-thou" stuff. If anything, the ones who are terribly uncomfortable have been defensive and accusatory. I mean come on.
Please don't go down the "crunchier-than-thou-whine" path. It's getting old.
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#77 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 03:09 PM
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my 7 year old dd played an active role in the birth of our newest babe, so she definately got an eyeful would you allow your dc to be there for the birth of another child? this is an interesting discussion & i just thought what about during labor?
My kids are both going to be present for the birth of our new baby. I think that's quite different than 'spreading them' as it were.
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#78 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 03:31 PM
 
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interesting thread. i've got a new scenario for you. i get my well woman check ups at the birth ctr where my dd2 (now 3) was born. since she's not in daycare/preschool i usually just take her along, so she's been there when i've gotten a pap smear. i really can't remember if she decided to watch or not. at one point she was up on the exam table with me. that situation didn't make me uncomfortable at all, and i think it's really common in that office, too. it's a very child friendly place.

if one of my dd's asked to see where my vagina is, though, that would make me a bit uncomfortable. i doubt i'd do it and would probably redirect. i agree with the poster who mentioned the different ages. i would feel more uncomfortable with my dd1 (6) than with my dd2 (3).

very interesting thread.

if you're looking for appropriate books i recommend one of the Robie Harris books like this one -- http://www.amazon.com/Its-Not-Stork-...4242637&sr=1-3 .

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#79 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 03:45 PM
 
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Why does this have to turn from an interesting thread into rediculousness?
Some of us feel comfortable with this others do not. Some of us are somewhere in between. There hasn't been any "crunchier-than-thou" stuff. If anything, the ones who are terribly uncomfortable have been defensive and accusatory. I mean come on.
Please don't go down the "crunchier-than-thou-whine" path. It's getting old.
You misread my post. I am not saying that if one shows their vagina to their child they are "more crunchy", I said it is almost like one of those aforementioned threads, but instead becoming a "I'm more comfortable w/my vagina" thread. Please reread someone's post before you decide to attack them.

And I do take offense if I think it is inappropriate to lie spread eagle for my sons that I have some kind of "vagina hang-up". That is offensive.
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#80 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 04:15 PM
 
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A tiny bit off subject, but there was a performance artist in the 90's named Annie Sprinkle. She used to do shows where she would show her vagina, even put a speculum in and have people come and look. She was an interesting lady- I studied her in Women's Studies in college. I mean, i studies her as an artist. I never saw her show or studied her vagina.
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#81 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 04:17 PM
 
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a performance artist in the 90's named Annie Sprinkle. She used to do shows where she would show her vagina, even put a speculum in and have people come and look.

Wow
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#82 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 04:25 PM
 
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wrong..one sorry
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#83 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 04:35 PM
 
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No one was asking what to call a penis or vagina. The OP was about seeing the mother's vagina.

Who doesn't want to hear vagina or penis? I teach my children vulva, vagina, penis, and scrotum.

I don't see how it is possibly disturbing.

I find it disturbing to hear children who don't know the proper names.

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#84 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 04:58 PM
 
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I mean, i studies her as an artist. I never saw her show or studied her vagina.
I totally just choked on my water. The way you phrased that
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#85 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 05:01 PM
 
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#86 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 05:15 PM
 
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A tiny bit off subject, but there was a performance artist in the 90's named Annie Sprinkle. She used to do shows where she would show her vagina, even put a speculum in and have people come and look. She was an interesting lady- I studied her in Women's Studies in college. I mean, i studies her as an artist. I never saw her show or studied her vagina.
Dude, but Annie Sprinkle is also an ex-prostitute and porn star. So, there's some predisposition to exhibitionism for profit there.

In answer to the original post, heck no...a book works fine. Kids don't get to see everything they want, "I wanna see a kookaburra." Well, then, honey, let me buy some tickets to Australia...we'll have to sell the house first...Saying "no" won't break anyone's heart. And (maybe someone already pointed this out) but learning that there are body parts that shouldn't be intentionally shown and kept private isn't such a bad lesson. It probably wouldn't feel good to have the kid who repeatedly insists on seeing other children's private parts at playdates or at preschool, because mama does it at home and it's all good jolly fun.

So not invited back. I mean, where do you draw the line? Giving anatomy lessons? What if they want to touch?

He'll have plenty of chances to see them later in life, anyhow. He can always get tickets to the Annie Sprinkle Show.
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#87 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 05:25 PM
 
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Just a thought...a mama posted about her dc being present at the birth center for her vaginal. Would you feel comfortable if your dc got up and moved to where she could see better?

What could you do if she did that? I mean your spread eagle on the table, kwim? Any sort of raising your voice or saying that's not ok, might be the start of some weird feelings. Then, if the mw can look at your privates and your dc can't when your on the table, how would that work out? Maybe dc would feel like she wasn't good enough after all you let this mw lady look and not her...

Just thinking out loud.

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#88 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 06:16 PM
 
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You misread my post. I am not saying that if one shows their vagina to their child they are "more crunchy", I said it is almost like one of those aforementioned threads, but instead becoming a "I'm more comfortable w/my vagina" thread. Please reread someone's post before you decide to attack them.

And I do take offense if I think it is inappropriate to lie spread eagle for my sons that I have some kind of "vagina hang-up". That is offensive.
My apologies for coming off as attacking you. I think i'm projecting some of my feelings about a different thread onto our exchange if that makes sense.

FWIW, I don't think anyone has stated that someone has a vagina hang up if they don't spread eagle. In fact, I don't think anyone is advocating spreading eagle at all (except that performance artist!) As I stated, I would not be comfortable spreading eagle but I was comfortable with my son attending his sister's birth. I do not, however, feel it is my place to make sweeping judgments against other mothers who are comfortable with showing their child details, etc. I don't think either position is *wrong*.
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#89 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 06:38 PM
 
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What about a compromise? What about a book with a picture of a vagina? A realistic one, not a drawing. I'm thinking like something like A Child is Born...

LOL about all the Annie Sprinkle talk!
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#90 of 114 Old 03-18-2007, 06:39 PM
 
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My apologies for coming off as attacking you. I think i'm projecting some of my feelings about a different thread onto our exchange if that makes sense.

FWIW, I don't think anyone has stated that someone has a vagina hang up if they don't spread eagle. In fact, I don't think anyone is advocating spreading eagle at all (except that performance artist!) As I stated, I would not be comfortable spreading eagle but I was comfortable with my son attending his sister's birth. I do not, however, feel it is my place to make sweeping judgments against other mothers who are comfortable with showing their child details, etc. I don't think either position is *wrong*.
You absolutely make sense. No problem

I personally do not think it is appropriate to show your son or daughter your vagina. I will not judge those who do, but it feels very very wrong to me. If I heard of a mom who did this IRL, it would definately raise my eyebrows, as opposed to a sibling attending a birth--that would just make my heart melt. That would be my immediate, first, gut reaction.

Now, having worked very closely w/CPS for a number of yrs, I can tell you that showing your child your genitals, would not be looked at kindly. With all the things that us MDCers do that are a tad "odd", extended breastfeeding, no vaxing, homeschooling, etc, this would definately put anyone over the edge of their comfort level.

Now, of course those "odd" things shouldn't be on their radar, but, I see no reason to tip the scales in their favor. In our society this is just something we don't do and we can argue that it is wrong that we are judged in such a way, but, it is what it is.
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