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My four year old. . .

7K views 151 replies 56 participants last post by  koofie 
#1 ·
is wearing me down. We've had three weeks of constant battles. I just don't know what to do. I feel terrible for him and for me. Typical example: Today daddy was taking a nap. Ds was being a dinosaur right out side the bedroom. I said, daddy's napping, we need to be quiet. He continued roaring. I said, Hey lets go outside and be dinosaurs. He hid under the table and continued roaring. Honey, if you don't stop you will get in trouble. Daddy is trying to sleep and you need to make noise away from the door. He continues. . . .I picked him up and took him to his room and which point he is kicking and scratching me. Later we make up, talk about it, he promises to listen. . . an hour later we are locked into a similar situation. All day long. Why? Why? Why? I don't like it. He doesn't like it.

I guess this could be a gentle discipline issue, but I'm wondering more about the brain of a 4 year old. What is he getting out of this?
 
#53 ·
So THIS is where I should have put my thread

I just posted this in GD

today I asked for 10 minutes of alone time in my room to watch a few minutes of tv while the baby slept and her and her sister painted, I set up all the paint stuff (which she loves to paint) and she did it for about 5min then came in my room and started rolling around near me, on me, etc, I asked her nicely to give me 5 minutes to relax, I honestly dont think this is unreasonable to me to ask, so she doesnt leave, I tell her in a calm tone to play in the living room or to paint, again she doesnt leave

well thats how it started, she went off, then I tell her if she keeps it up she is going in time out, ok she keeps it up, time out, screaming kicking flipping out, tell her to stop or the toy she got at preschool is getting put away for the day, keeps screaming, toy up on shelf, flipping out over toy, time out over, she tells me she hates me, back in time out, flip out, now in time out in room, kicking door, banging wall, wake up baby, throwing books in room, tearing sheets off bed, I go in tell her she needs 4 minutes of quiet time then she can get out, set timer, she throws timer at wall and screams in my face, etc etc etc, I want to throw her against a wall, never would but really want to, start to cry call DH he says he doenst know why she pushes me so much (this has been for about 9 months now several times a week)

she has always had a temper I remember at her 18month check up asking the doctor if there was terrible 18months before terrible 2's, she will be 5 in Jan and it just gets worse

she fights w/her sister constantly, is wonderful w/ baby and is an angel at preschool

when she is sweet she is THE sweetest girl you could ever meet, when she is mad/angry/being naughty its like the devil worked its way into my child

I could have taken bits and pieces of SO MANY of the responses here, and YES is it good to see we are not alone
I do wish there were more answers, maybe we can figure out some together,
OR on the days we have good days post our observations about the day??
Make this an ongoing thread like a PP suggested??

I RIGHT there with you all, lets figure this out!

WE ARE GOOD MOTHERS WHO LOVE OUR KIDS!!!!!!!!
:
 
#54 ·
all around here!

I agree that 4 is a developmentally difficult age for both the kids and their parents! My DD is 4 years and 4 months old. (Now that I see that age written out, it reminds me that she's always been a bit early on her 6-month developmental pendulum swings.)

I actually found this thread while trying to figure out where to post a gripe about my DD after she purposefully peed on the carpet in the family room behind her art desk. Yeah, we've been having some regressive potty issues lately, but accidents are one thing. This was completely different. AAACK!


We've been having a tough time since July, about a month after her 4th b-day. She and I had a really scary fall together in a friend's garden. DD was shaken up And I somehow managed not to squish her, but (long story short here) I am currently 2-1/2 weeks post-op from a surgery to fix my wrist as a result of this accident.

I am right-handed but I haven't had much use if my left hand since the accident and this soft tissue injury takes a long time to recover. Why am I explaining this? Not for sympathy, really!
It's because I've noticed a huge change in DD's behavior since the accident. I used to just physically scoop her up and hug her when she started getting totally out of control and unhappy. She weighs 41 pounds. There is no way I can do that now - and I know part of our problem is that she feels scared I can't rein her in when she needs it.

Add that to the regular F'ing 4's stuff and we've been having a wild ride over here lately.
:

I think today's peeing incident actually stemmed from DD trying to get my attention as well as her showing me that she's in control. Amazingly. I did not yell at her tonight. I just cleaned up the mess (while she said I couldn't get to it because the desk was too heavy for me to move - yeah right, it's Step 2). We had planned a train trip to visit some out of town friends, but DH ended up with work "emergencies" and we had to change our plans completely. DD doesn't do so well with transitions.

Interestingly enough, this evening, after I was able to spend a little time with DD and give her some mommy-hugs, her behavior improved immensely. This was one instance of GD working well. The rest of our day before this? Not so much, mostly because I wasn't able to step back from things before. But some days are just hard, KWIM?

In conclusion of this wordy post, I think it's extremely important to have a break now and then just to recollect oneself in order to care for oneself. If I don't do this I end up feeling resentful - then I feel guilty about feeling resentful. Not good, but it does wake me up to what's going on. (The accident was a cumulative effect of multi-tasking and not taking care of DD's mommy - me!)

My advice for when your DC makes you so angry it's hard to remember why you love them? Look at them while they are sleeping. That works for me at the end of the day. (No naps over here in ages so maybe I'll print out a picture to use during the day time.)

One last thing (really!) - DH and I have noticed sometimes that when DD is acting out aggressively (hitting & kicking us, etc.), she seems to be asking for some physical attention and often responds well to tickling, chasing/tag-type games, and more "hands-on" kind of play. Usually this ends up being with daddy, but sometimes she wants to "rough house" with mommy, too. DD is very tactile though, so some of it may just be her personality.

Hope that helps. It actually helped me to collect myself and regroup a bit! Thanks and
to us all and our kiddos in the F'ing 4's!
 
#55 ·
I wanted to post that we had a fairly good day yesterday - for the first time in months ds2 actually played contentedly for a couple of stretches. No shrieking drama! I got to talk on the phone for 5 min uninterrupted!! Perhaps I saw some light at the end of this tunnel... giving him more positive hands-on time may be paying off & helping him feel more secure. Lots of EFT too. To have a good day for once was so nice.
 
#56 ·
Wow, yesterday was BAD. DS was a crazy man after school, I think he was tired. We decided to take the halloween decorations down, he was all for it - until I took a ghost down. He flipped out. He wanted the ghost hung back up. I told him he could keep the ghost and hang it in his room. It was just a piece of tissue that he drew eyes on. He was not having it. He threw himself on the floor (his newest trick) and screamed at the top of his lungs. The he started spitting so he went into time out. He stood on the chair and screamed for a while so I asked him to go to his room for quiet time. He screamed for a while, but stayed in the room, then after about 10 mins he came out and seemed fine. About 5 mins later he was flipping out again because his little brother was looking at him
This went on for most of the night.
 
#57 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jilian View Post
Wow, yesterday was BAD. DS was a crazy man after school, I think he was tired. We decided to take the halloween decorations down, he was all for it - until I took a ghost down. He flipped out. He wanted the ghost hung back up. I told him he could keep the ghost and hang it in his room. It was just a piece of tissue that he drew eyes on. He was not having it. He threw himself on the floor (his newest trick) and screamed at the top of his lungs. The he started spitting so he went into time out. He stood on the chair and screamed for a while so I asked him to go to his room for quiet time. He screamed for a while, but stayed in the room, then after about 10 mins he came out and seemed fine. About 5 mins later he was flipping out again because his little brother was looking at him
This went on for most of the night.
Sounds like a typical day at our house!
: The only thing ds would do differently is rip the ghost up, then proceed to scream about how it's broken for an hour.
Seriously, there's some days that I count the hours until dh gets home. Then I start counting the hours until bedtime. *Everything* is a major tantrum with both kids lately. Ds1 whines for hours on end over an alleged "boo-boo on my finger". Ds2 attempts to jump off of counters, then when I move him he flings his body to the ground and screams about how I "pushed him down".

Sigh.
 
#58 ·
subbing!

dd can be the most amazingly wonderful, sweet, funny thing. OR, she can be 4. moods can change on a dime. i can't keep up with all the questions and incessant talking.

i find that we definitely feed off each others' moods which makes for a craptacular combination
PMS was misery this month & she & i had a horrendous week! she doesn't give dh nearly the misery she gives me and i know part of it is that his feathers just don't get ruffled the way i do but i also think we're just wired really similarly which can be great & awful all at once.

it's so good to hear similar stories! i question myself all the time!!!
 
#59 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by L&IsMama View Post
Seriously, there's some days that I count the hours until dh gets home. Then I start counting the hours until bedtime.
Totally. Almost every day. I just posted a huge long thing in the GD forum. I am at a loss about how to deal with this age without losing it.
 
#60 ·
I would tell him that if he cannot listen to you and follow your easy request then NO MORE PLAYING dinasour at all. If he continues... he's to sit down and be quiet for 4 minutes and think about another quieter game to play while daddy is sleeping. If he does it again... then he isn't allowed to play dinasour in the house.
 
#61 ·
I countdown until bedtime some days too, but it gets depressing when there is still 7 hours to go
Luckily DS has began playing alone in his room when I ask him to. When he's really pushing my buttons and I'm at the end of my rope I either ask him to play quietly in his room or put a TV show on for him
: We have DVR and I record Clifford and Little Bear for emergencies.
 
#62 ·
Ds went through a strange peeing stage, too. He's been potty trained for years, but for about 2 weeks he was peeing everywhere. He stood on his brothers bed and peed all over his sheets (what???). I was totally unprepared for this. Wasn't an accident, but how can I really control his pee?? He went behind a desk on his carpet a few times too, then just stopped.
: He's been spitting, too. That is really hard for me to deal with. Being spit on just violates something inside me-- but he knows that and it seems to be a way for him t o say "I'm REALLY mad." I get that, but I still don't want to be spit on.

We 've had a good weekend (though, we did have a bit of a battle about Halloween decorations, too!). I'm trying to be careful to keep food in his body, but so often he just doesn't want to eat, then seems to have a hard time from being hungry. We are working on hugging each other when he feels bad instead of lashing out at me. He agreed that that was a better option!
 
#64 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by bobica View Post
subbing!

dd can be the most amazingly wonderful, sweet, funny thing. OR, she can be 4. moods can change on a dime. i can't keep up with all the questions and incessant talking.

i find that we definitely feed off each others' moods which makes for a craptacular combination
PMS was misery this month & she & i had a horrendous week! she doesn't give dh nearly the misery she gives me and i know part of it is that his feathers just don't get ruffled the way i do but i also think we're just wired really similarly which can be great & awful all at once.

it's so good to hear similar stories! i question myself all the time!!!
You describe my DD and myself almost exactly. I get a much harder time from her than DH does, but he doesn't get upset and feed into it as much as I do. DD and I are extremely alike as far as personality goes, and we butt heads all of the time. I went through the same thing with my mom, but now we are the very best of friends (so at least there's that to look forward to
)

And the part about questioning yourself.....I hear ya sister. Just before I logged on here I was crying to DH about how much I suck at being a mother to my 4 yr old.
 
#65 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by transformed View Post
My ds spits on his sister all the time. Today she came in to see me and had chewed up carrot all over her head. I have routinley seen him spit water on her. He also does it to me. He also coughs in peoples faces so they can "see."

it sucks!!!!
My DD does both of these things. She's mostly stopped spitting on us, but she'll still do it on the floor or on the furniture, sometimes on the dog.


DD also does the "cough" in peoples' faces and when she's mad, she'll either "bum" us by sticking her bottom out at us, or more often lately, she'll blow air through her nostrils at us - annoying and rude at best, completely disgusting at worst.


Guess maybe she's not so weird as I thought.
 
#66 ·
Wow, so many of these stories sound JUST like my 4 yr. old!
He's a very, very sweet, affectionate kid. He has lots of friends, gets plenty of time outside every day, loves his brother to death, but sometimes he just gets out of control. He even tells me, "I can't stop!" when he's just freaking out tantruming or crying.
The most irritating thing is the crying-- he will start sobbing at the drop of a hat. If someone speaks to him too sharply, "WAAAAAAAH!" and it takes several minutes to make him stop. I've started sending him to his room when he starts because it grates on everyone's nerves and he just can't cry ALL the time! I swear, 5 minutes of picking up toys takes 20 minutes because he cries every time I ask him to do anything!

One thing that has been helpful lately is his observation that when I get cranky, he gets cranky, and vice versa. So we've been trying not to let that happen in either direction-- if I'm getting cranky, I'll say, "I'm getting cranky now." He'll say "Well when you get cranky it makes me cranky too!" so I'll say, "How about you finish picking up your toys and give me a few minutes of quiet time so I can stop being cranky?" and it works! It wouldn't have 6 months ago, but it does now. We're both learning how to deal with each other's personality and how to maintain a happy, healthy relationship.

I'm actually thinking 5 will be okay. It's getting better. The "F#^& you!"s and "I hate you!"s are few and far between these days, hopefully not to return for another 10 years.
 
#67 ·
Today was just awful.

It started out OK... I had an unexpected day off from work, so I kept DS home from school (he was a little under the weather and I needed to take him to the doc for a refill on his allergy meds). The morning was fine, we had lunch with my Dad, went to the doctor, went shopping, then we came home and tied up a bunch of wood bundles for the recycling pick-up... and then things started to suck.

The mosquitos were biting so I wanted him to come in the house rather than playing outside because he always wants Benadryl spray and can't have any right now because he's already being medicated for allergies. Anyway I made him come inside, so he had a screaming fit.

He also had screaming fits over me wanting to watch a TV show, me correcting him for being too rough, various other indescrections, and finally for UNFOLDING all my FOLDED laundry. Yeah, I was a total shrew to him all evening, but that last one took the cake. Of course, he bawled the whole time I made him put away the laundry, but I was about to freaking lose it.

I feel totally unequipped to deal with this right now. I want us to have positive interactions, but it's just not working out.
 
#69 ·
*sigh* two steps forward, one step back...

Ds got mad while drinking and dumped his entire juice on the floor. He was fine one second, an instant later, furious. There was no chance at all for me to do anything to help him or stop him.

I just went to a meeting for the county's preschool/ece workers and we learned about a program that teaches social/emotional skills. It sounds like just what I need for my four year old. It systematically introduces the concepts of empathy, identifying feelings, managing strong emotions and problem solving. It is being taught to teachers at every level so that they can use & teach emotional skills in age appropriate ways all through the grades. But I can see that using it at home would likely have the most impact. I wonder if there's a resource just for parents that would be useful as a guide for those of us who aren't in areas where this program is being used.
 
#70 ·
Quote:
Interrupting DH and I when we talk. If I say in a minute he will yell "Mommmiiieee!!!" until I snappishly ask "What IS IT DS???" and he will say "Nothing"
My 4 year old dd used to interrupt us constantly at the dinner table. We were also interrupting ourselves to remind her to say excuse me. That wasn't working, so we came up with a sign to remind her to say excuse me. I would touch my nose with one finger. Then another sign to show her that I heard her lovely request and would answer her as soon as there is a pause in the conversation.

It was like this:

(Mom and Dad having conversation.)
DD: Mom!
(Mom touches nose.)
DD: Excuse me.
(Mom touches ear.)
(DD waits.)
(Mom answers DD.)

The first few times we did it, I didn't make her wait too long. I wanted to show her that it will work. Now that she's used to it, she can wait a few minutes until we're done talking about whatever it is we're talking about. We've been doing this for a few months now and all I have to do now is touch my ear. Hope this helps someone. I'll be
: for more solutions too!
 
#71 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by twopinknoblue View Post

And the part about questioning yourself.....I hear ya sister. Just before I logged on here I was crying to DH about how much I suck at being a mother to my 4 yr old.
Oh, I've had that conversation with my husband too. My therapist told me the other day to go easy on myself, and she is so right.

How do these little people make us feel so completely inadequate?
 
#72 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by olliepop View Post
My 4 year old dd used to interrupt us constantly at the dinner table. We were also interrupting ourselves to remind her to say excuse me. That wasn't working, so we came up with a sign to remind her to say excuse me. I would touch my nose with one finger. Then another sign to show her that I heard her lovely request and would answer her as soon as there is a pause in the conversation.

It was like this:

(Mom and Dad having conversation.)
DD: Mom!
(Mom touches nose.)
DD: Excuse me.
(Mom touches ear.)
(DD waits.)
(Mom answers DD.)

The first few times we did it, I didn't make her wait too long. I wanted to show her that it will work. Now that she's used to it, she can wait a few minutes until we're done talking about whatever it is we're talking about. We've been doing this for a few months now and all I have to do now is touch my ear. Hope this helps someone. I'll be
: for more solutions too!
I MUST try this. Thank you!
 
#73 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by happyhippiemama View Post
I MUST try this. Thank you!
I'm gonna try it too. They use something like this at DS's school. It is the peace sign, and it is supposed to mean peace and quiet. I can think of a few other signs I'd like to use instead of the peace sign when DS interrupts me for the 20th time!
:
 
#74 ·
Thank you everyone for keeping this thread going. I really need it.

DH and DS pick me up from work at 5:30pm. It's a 30 minute commute with traffic. DS talks (and interrupts) DH and I the whole car ride home.

Before I get in the car, I ALWAYS give him a hug and a kiss before jumping in the front seat. It's draining because I haven't had time to transition from Employee-->Wife-->Mommy

Because they BOTH (DH and DS ) require my attention at the same time. DS will start asking questions, I try to answer them patiently with as much information as I can(sometimes, I just.don't.know. the answer to his questions
and he will have a complete meltdown if I don't know so then I start making things up enough to satisfy him)...then DH proceeds to tell me about his day. DS interrupts and asks "What's that Mommy?" "Is that a Police?"

So I've been stopping DH in mid sentence to answer his questions (hoping that was the last question...but it's not!).

So when I become firm with DS and say "DS, Mommy is talking to Daddy okay?" He then starts kicking the back of my chair (in the car). And kicking it hard!

DH yelled
: at DS yesterday for kicking the back of my seat. He apologized to him but he was frustrated as it was dealing with bumper to bumper traffic.

So, I'm dealing with that. Kicking my chair when I'm talking to DH to gain my attention.

And again, he refuses to go to sleep. Last night, he went to bed at 12:30am. I tried laying down with him and tried to pretend like I was sleep (you know to make it boring for him) and when I peeped my eyes open, he was wide awake! After I've layed with him for 30 minutes.

So, to keep from being resentful because I hadn't taken care of myself (had dinner, had a hot bath and wash my hair to get ready for the next work day), I got up, kissed him and told him to good night).

He starting crying for me to come back and I did until he finally passed out...at 12:30am...

But I understand the culprit there (a 5:00-5:30pm power nap) which is something DH cannot control. He and DS leave the house at 5:00pm to come and pick me up from work and DH says the minute he buckles in DS he's fast asleep. And he gets to me by 5:30 so that's a good 30 minute nap. Which is ALL DS needs for his second wind for the evening and he goes non stop.

That's why I'm so tired all of the time.
 
#75 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by lisac77 View Post
I feel totally unequipped to deal with this right now.
You've hit the nail for me. I couldn't quite figure it out, but there it is. There are lots of good suggestions here, I just need the time to internalize them.

Between work and home, there never seems to be enough time to reflect.

But now I have a starting point.

to us Mamas today.
 
#76 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by olliepop View Post
My 4 year old dd used to interrupt us constantly at the dinner table. We were also interrupting ourselves to remind her to say excuse me. That wasn't working, so we came up with a sign to remind her to say excuse me. I would touch my nose with one finger. Then another sign to show her that I heard her lovely request and would answer her as soon as there is a pause in the conversation.

It was like this:

(Mom and Dad having conversation.)
DD: Mom!
(Mom touches nose.)
DD: Excuse me.
(Mom touches ear.)
(DD waits.)
(Mom answers DD.)

The first few times we did it, I didn't make her wait too long. I wanted to show her that it will work. Now that she's used to it, she can wait a few minutes until we're done talking about whatever it is we're talking about. We've been doing this for a few months now and all I have to do now is touch my ear. Hope this helps someone. I'll be
: for more solutions too!

I'm going to try this, thank you!
 
#77 ·
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jilian View Post
I'm gonna try it too. They use something like this at DS's school. It is the peace sign, and it is supposed to mean peace and quiet. I can think of a few other signs I'd like to use instead of the peace sign when DS interrupts me for the 20th time!
:
 
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