Asked to leave GS event...because I had my 9 week old w/ me in sling - Page 3 - Mothering Forums
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#61 of 76 Old 06-17-2008, 10:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by zeldamomma View Post
I guess I don't understand what you want. I'm an unschooler. I believe in empowering children and taking them seriously, but I don't think that means that every event needs to welcome all ages. Different ages have different needs, and sometimes an organizer only has the energy/facilities/time/money to focus on a particular age group. I would hate for people to stop offering events because they can't manage to accommodate all ages.
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we are not talking here about hijacking an event meant for a specific group (in this case, 5 year old people who, for some reason need to have XX chromosomes, but that is another topic) and turning it into an all-ages event. That is something that should not be discussed the day of the event, obviously. This is about an infant in a sling, not disturbing anyone or anything.
I am not saying that every activity for children should be for all ages, I specifically said that it was not what I was talking about. This was a private event by a private organization for their members so the parents already agreed that it was just for girls (which IMO is awful, but that is not the topic here) so the matter of making it accessible to all ages is a completely different question. What we are talking about here is someone who was allowed to be there, who in fact had to be there but was told to leave because she happened to have an infant in her sling. An infant who did not participate in any activities, for whom no accommodations were required and whose presence would not have any impact on the event, except perhaps for people interested in seeing him.

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#62 of 76 Old 06-17-2008, 11:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by soso-lynn View Post
I am not saying that every activity for children should be for all ages, I specifically said that it was not what I was talking about. This was a private event by a private organization for their members so the parents already agreed that it was just for girls (which IMO is awful, but that is not the topic here) so the matter of making it accessible to all ages is a completely different question. What we are talking about here is someone who was allowed to be there, who in fact had to be there but was told to leave because she happened to have an infant in her sling. An infant who did not participate in any activities, for whom no accommodations were required and whose presence would not have any impact on the event, except perhaps for people interested in seeing him.
Ok.

I wasn't understanding your point. The OP was not required to be there, her daughter was required to be accompanied by an adult (not necessarily her mother), if they chose to participate. We don't know if accommodations were required or if the infant had an impact on the event. The insurance for the event didn't cover siblings, and so the organizers may have lost their jobs if they'd allowed her to stay.

FWIW, I think an all-girl environment can be empowering for girls being raised in our often misogynistic society.
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#63 of 76 Old 06-18-2008, 12:01 AM
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I just wanted to add, that I was a co-leader for my dd's brownie troop this year, and me and the other leader always had our younger children with us (I had my two little ones, as well as a baby I was sitting during the fall). We went on field trips with the little ones as well, with no problem. We didn't go camping with them, true. And, it may be that we were breaking some rules, but it was never disruptive (maybe a little chaotic, but I think the other 7 year olds played a part in that as well!) to the troop's activities.

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#64 of 76 Old 06-18-2008, 12:02 PM
 
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How awful. Maybe there's something that fits your and your daughter's needs more than Girl Scouts? I know neither of my girls would have been ok being left with someone else, even their wonderful daddy, at 9 weeks. Maybe you can write a letter and explain how un-supportive of breastfeeding this policy is. I hope you can find a group that works better for your family!
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#65 of 76 Old 06-18-2008, 06:14 PM
 
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I am a leader in Girls' Brigade here in the UK and I have always taken my dds to company evenings plus camps. Our captain took her dd (just turned 18 now!) away for a week camp at 6 weeks old!

The rules are that I (or other designated adult) are solely responsible for any child under 8 (we don't take girls away before they are 8) and I pay a nominal amount for her food. As long as we inform HQ that she will be there, she is covered by our insurance under the terms stated above.

They have these rules for a reason but they should have been explained to you earlier.

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#66 of 76 Old 06-19-2008, 02:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by zeldamomma View Post
I don't think the policy sends the message that "mothers are second class citizens", nearly as much as "this is not a place for babies".

It's tough when you have a big kid that can't do what they want because of their baby sibling. Sorry.
I agree. I think it is disappointing but not unfair.

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Originally Posted by srlpenny View Post
a trip from 8am to 10pm
That seems like a pretty long day (14 hours straight!) for a five year old. What was it, and how far away from home? When I had very young siblings, I called in my sister or dp to attend stuff like this with the older sib. My sister works for herself so sets her own hours, and dp used a vacation day now and then, or made up the hours that week or whatever.

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Originally Posted by zeldamomma View Post
Girl scouts is supposed to be about the girls, not their moms-- it is a shame that the policy wasn't explained when it should have been, but if the camp was planning for each Daisy to have an adult assistant, a woman who is already busy caring for an infant may not be able to fill that role.

To say that a woman should be able to bring her infant in a sling everywhere is absurd-- should military pilots bring their babies on missions? Should surgeons wear their babies in the operating room? Acknowledging that mothering a baby is a task that takes time and effort does not make mothers or babies second-class citizens.
I think it is hard to find common ground when some believe that babies/toddlers should be allowed everywhere without exception and some don't. In this case (Girl Scouts), it really is about the insurance. This policy has been explained to our troops as well. There are some activities that are for the entire family, but not generally. I think it is nice to have something that is just your own - when you are a kid in a family with siblings.

I wouldn't take it personally. I wouldn't go on a letter-writing campaign. I wouldn't pull my 5 year old from her Daisy troop. I'd just ask the leaders beforehand if the babe-in-arms would be a problem. Sounds like you already were told the insurance policy. So in the future, baby can stay with dad or gramma or auntie or your best friend - or any of those people can take dd to her meeting/activity. For $10, an adult can be registered and therefore covered by troop insurance and able to chaperone/participate in GS activities.
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#67 of 76 Old 06-19-2008, 07:40 PM
 
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[QUOTE=PiesandAbrosmama;11471795]Could the rule be changed to say something like "Babies in arms", I mean a 9 week nursing babe is certainly much different it's an extention in my opinion of the mother.QUOTE]

When you were pregnant, he was still a seperate person. Did they buy extra insurance for him then? You were allowed to bring him with you then, right? I know that there are rules for a reason, but rules can be changed. Obviously this one should be.
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#68 of 76 Old 06-19-2008, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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"That seems like a pretty long day (14 hours straight!) for a five year old. What was it, and how far away from home?"

It was a Jamboree, it was a half hour from home. Brownies and up stayed the night, Daisies were only allowed for the day.

"I wouldn't take it personally. I wouldn't go on a letter-writing campaign. I wouldn't pull my 5 year old from her Daisy troop. I'd just ask the leaders beforehand if the babe-in-arms would be a problem. "

I had asked the troop leader and told it was okay. It was a council staffer that kicked me out.

"Sounds like you already were told the insurance policy."
No actually, not until I was being kicked out.

So in the future, baby can stay with dad or gramma or auntie or your best friend - or any of those people can take dd to her meeting/activity. For $10, an adult can be registered and therefore covered by troop insurance and able to chaperone/participate in GS activities.

Unfortunately we have no local family, so if I don't take DD she doesn't go, as I'm sure father's would not be welcome either. And I'm not leaving my 9 week old for 14 hours, especially when I'd have no way to pump.

Thanks

Mom to DD 7, DS 6, DD 4.5, DD 2.5, DS 1.5 and expecting DD4 anyday now. Planning my second : and ready for fun!
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#69 of 76 Old 06-19-2008, 09:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by srlpenny View Post

Unfortunately we have no local family, so if I don't take DD she doesn't go, as I'm sure father's would not be welcome either. And I'm not leaving my 9 week old for 14 hours, especially when I'd have no way to pump.

Thanks
Policy-wise, dads are welcome at GS events.

-Angela
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#70 of 76 Old 06-19-2008, 09:44 PM
 
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I admit I haven't read all the replies to this but I wanted to say that I am a troop leader, and I don't think I've ever had an event that siblings weren't present. At the same time if we attend a larger event that is not just our troop I make sure the families know in advance if parents/siblings are allowed. If possible let another adult/older child (16+) family member/friend (of either gender) take her to those events until the siblings are old enough to be left with someone else. She needs to be accompanied, but not necessarily by you.
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#71 of 76 Old 06-19-2008, 09:46 PM
 
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Policy-wise, dads are welcome at GS events.

-Angela
Absolutely, even camping they can go, they just can't share a sleep space with any girls including their daughters. We love fathers involved. My father was a girl scout leader.
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#72 of 76 Old 06-19-2008, 10:04 PM
 
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I'm sorry, that must have been so disappointing. I'd be really pissed. However-

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Originally Posted by srlpenny View Post
What message are we sending these girls? Mothers are second class citizens? Babies don't need to be with their mommies?
Do you really think this is what GS's is saying? The message they are sending is that they don't want to get their a$$'s sued if someone brings a sibling and the sibling gets injured. We live in a litigious society.

I'm a GS leader. I think the policy is a pain in the neck and I think it's notable that similar organizations don't have this same policy. I think event organizers/leaders should be allowed to use their discretion on a case by case situation. I can tell you I wouldn't want a slew of siblings hanging out some of the busy events we've attended. But I think the leader who insisted you not participate should have let it go this time and said, "Please no baby next time."

I think before you start a letter writing campaign you should make a phone call to Council office and talk to a higher up to get some clarification. If you aren't satisfied and are inspired to do so, you might send off your letter writing campaign to GS headquarters, where policy is actually made.

If I have one complaint about GS it's that it is entirely too bureaucratic.

Someone moved my effing cheese.
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#73 of 76 Old 06-19-2008, 11:27 PM
 
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Here's another thing you might want to consider...I don't know what the laws in your state are regarding breast-fed babies, but here in Illinois, nursing babies legally have the right to be anywhere that moms are. Period.
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#74 of 76 Old 05-20-2014, 06:35 PM
 
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I was in GS for years, and my mom was a leader before that and NO ONE ever brought a sibling. Come to think of it, no parents stayed either. Perhaps that is what they are going for. I was worried about that when my son started Cub Scouts, since I would have my daughter with me at times. I approached a leader about it and he said that it was very family friendly, etc. I think it was great that they were so open to families, but people definitely took advantage of this. One particular family with a little girl did NOTHING to keep her quiet and let her run wild during the meetings. Many of the adults used the meeting time to socialize as well, and I found this to be extremely disrespectful. Active little boys have a hard enough time concentrating without all the commotion! 

 

Perhaps the insurance situation is different in GS or at the location you are in. If it's not an insurance issue, then it was pretty ridiculous to make you leave right then and there. She could have let you stay till the end of the meeting at least. 

 

I would think it would be really hard to find many participants who DON'T have a sibling or two who need to tag along. How do the other parents do it...or do they just drop off and leave?

 

Now that my son has crossed over to BSA, things have really changed. At the meetings, there aren't as many siblings. I wasn't told not to bring my daughter, but I feel awkward because I am usually the only one with a younger child there. For camp outs, I was told up front that it was not for families, but rather parents and scouts only. 

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#75 of 76 Old 05-20-2014, 06:58 PM
 
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This is a really old thread, but since I've been discussing this issue recently with other leaders, I wanted to comment on two issues you personally brought up jmarroq.  The issue of family participation is up to the the troop leaders.  There is a fair divide between troop leaders in regards to family and in some GS forums it's been pretty hot there recently on that subject.  But as far as National goes, parent participation is decided on the troop level.  Insurance-wise, only registered GS members are covered under their insurance.  Adults can be registered members and girls 5+.  I'm sure insurance varies at non-troop events.  Each council is very different in how it handles all kinds of things, including this.  For troop-only events, leaders are able to purchase additional insurance for outings like camping, if more people are tagging along.  That is entirely the prerogative of the leaders in each troop.

 

Now this thread has made me curious and I'll read a bit.


Give me a few minutes while I caffeinate.
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#76 of 76 Old 05-23-2014, 05:24 PM
 
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I know sorry! I realized it was old, deleted my post within seconds of posting, and it's still here! Good topic though. 

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