Bladder control and 8 year old girls - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 21 Old 07-29-2008, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Someone please tell me it's totally normal for them to have none?

I've been noticing DD is still having a LOT of accidents. I pick up her laundry from her basket to wash nightly and there are usually about 7 or so pairs of soaking wet panties and a few pairs of shorts. I feel like with her own bathroom a few feet away, she should be able to make it more often than that. She had an accident at the store the other day knowing where the bathroom is and didn't bother going. She squatted beside the basket but I thought she was looking at something. Stood up and told me she peed her pants. : That was really irritating because we were in no hurry and she knows that store well and has been to the restroom there a zillion times. Plus she never mentioned needing to go at all.

With school starting again soon I'm getting concerned. I had to drop everything last year at least twice a week to take MORE clean clothes up to the school because she'd wet her clothes. I'd stick clean clothes in her backpack, she'd use them and not say anything to me and then they'd call with her in the office needing another change. In the middle of grocery shopping or a dr's appointment, not fun for anyone.

This isn't a new problem by any means but I'd expected it to get better over the years. We had her tested for kidney reflux and bladder issues at 6 because of recurrent UTI's and bladder control problems.

So I'm torn. Should I take her back to the Dr? Should I just buy her some liners and accept that she can't hold it? She does have ADHD and isn't being treated for it if that matters at all... I have no idea.
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#2 of 21 Old 07-29-2008, 09:55 PM
 
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Sorry I wish I could tell you it's normal, but my gut is telling me there's something wrong. I would definitely take her back to the Dr. If it's not medical, there's a good possibility it's psychological. My friend's DD is 6 and has a problem with accidents every now and then...the Dr. found that she has an abnormally short urethra and the muscles that normally hold back urine weren't effective. Has she been looked at for that?

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#3 of 21 Old 07-29-2008, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't think so. I'll see about getting another referral to the urologist.
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#4 of 21 Old 07-29-2008, 10:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh and I don't think it's psychological. She sees a psychiatrist for OCD and we've talked to them about it. They seem to think it's just a matter of her not wanting to stop what she's doing.
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#5 of 21 Old 07-29-2008, 10:06 PM
 
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No, that's not normal at all. I wet the bed until I was 7, and I thought that was "late"- but my issue was sleeping deeply and not waking up in time to get to the bathroom- I stopped having daytime accidents at age 4 or so (except some leakage as an adult. )

There's either a physical problem or an emotional one- or possibly both. From what you described, my first guess would be a problem with recognizing the feeling of a full bladder- maybe she really doesn't feel it before she goes.

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#6 of 21 Old 07-29-2008, 10:10 PM
 
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I had accidents like you describe well past an age I'd care to admit. At age 21 I was finally diagnosed with pelvic floor dysfunction.

It was a physical therapist, in conjunction with my gyn., that finally was able to help me. Biofeedback/EEG can be used, totally noninvasively, to check pelvic floor strength and control. If it were my daughter, I would think about taking her to a PT that specializes in incontinence.

What ever you do, I strongly suggest not forcing her. My parents really played up the "she's lazy; she's just too busy playing" angle and came down like a ton of bricks. I have lasting chronic muscle spasms and pain, that have affected my sexual function, childbirth and day to day life, that were exacerbated by "traumatic toilet training." I have peer-reviewed medical literature to back me up on it. That function and part of your body is so critical to so many things it's really something that calls for gentleness.
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#7 of 21 Old 07-29-2008, 10:13 PM
 
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They seem to think it's just a matter of her not wanting to stop what she's doing.
See, this just burns me up. That's what was said about me 30 years ago and I read it all the time, nothing's changed. "Lazy." "Just gets busy". "Can't be bothered." Having gone through what I did, I don't buy it for a minute. No 8 year old just can't be bothered; I strongly believe that if she could manage herself this she would. What her particular struggle is I'm not sure, but I hate to see it dismissed as not wanting to stop playing.
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#8 of 21 Old 07-29-2008, 10:20 PM
 
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What tests did they do? What did the results show? I agree, this isn't normal.

Anne, Mama to Conner 2/27/04 blahblah.gif  Gabrielle 2/6/06 W/LMC-TCS, Neurogenic Bladder, AFO & KAFO wearer, Neurogenic Bowel energy.gif & Delaney 5/12/08 mischievous.gif &  Beethoven cat.gif& Gizmo cat.gif

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#9 of 21 Old 07-29-2008, 10:22 PM
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I agree with previous poster. This is something that needs investigating. I also don't buy into the "don't want to be bothered" idea, especially if it happens at school. No one wants to be known as the girl who wets her pants. My dd, also 8, has had occassional accidents. Sometimes the urge is suddenly there. So, instead of running to the bathroom and making a mess everywhere, she (like your dd) would just squat so that it wasn't so obvious that she was peeing. Unlike your dd, I can count these accidents on my fingers.

Get help for your dd. OH, I would buy her some liners or something to use when school starts--I think the kids could make her life miserable.

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#10 of 21 Old 07-29-2008, 10:29 PM
 
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maybe she is having a physical problem and when she squatted to look at something pee came out as a result? after my son was born for a few months if i squatted i would pee. i think in my case i had some bladder prolapse stuff going on but it luckily seems to have fixed itself in my case. i would take your daughter to a doctor and find out whats going on and rule out nothing physical. if she really just can't be botehred i would consider that an emotional issue that would need to be taken care of with some sort of counsling.

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#11 of 21 Old 07-29-2008, 11:15 PM
 
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Originally Posted by easy_goer View Post
I had accidents like you describe well past an age I'd care to admit. At age 21 I was finally diagnosed with pelvic floor dysfunction.
Can this affect urination only? The drs I've talked to chalk it up to laziness because my dd goes #2 just fine but never uses the bathroom just to go pee.

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#12 of 21 Old 07-29-2008, 11:22 PM
 
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They seem to think it's just a matter of her not wanting to stop what she's doing.
Really? If that's all they have to offer, I'd be looking for someone else.
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#13 of 21 Old 07-29-2008, 11:33 PM
 
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Oh and I don't think it's psychological. She sees a psychiatrist for OCD and we've talked to them about it. They seem to think it's just a matter of her not wanting to stop what she's doing.

It's not normal, but my 8yo ds has some small accidents (not soaking, but small leaks) and quite frankly it is obviously because he doesn't notice and doesn't want to stop what he's doing. He has Asperger's.

He tends to have some lowered sensitivity to some sensations, heightened to others. It isn't only that he doesn't want to stop what he's doing but he doesn't notice until it's urgent, while he is also extremely focused when he's doing something he likes. He used to refuse to go and still will do an obvious potty dance while not wanting to stop something.

I don't know--medically I don't think there is anything additional wrong with my ds. But it's also usually smaller leaks and rare at school. Knowing each situation is different, and it does sound like yours is more serious, I thought I'd tell my experience. I could definitely imagine attention and sensory issues of ADD being a factor.

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#14 of 21 Old 07-30-2008, 12:13 AM
 
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I don't think an 8yo would let go on purpose. I think there's something going on with here body. The squat and pee seems to suggest pelvic floor dysfunction as easy_goer had mentioned.

A dear friend of mine has an 11yo daughter who has bladder control issues as well. When her daughter stops eating all dairy for a few days (my friend says that she has to be fanatical about it reading all the labels), the issue seems to be go away. When her daughter begins dairy, the issues return with in a day or two.
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#15 of 21 Old 07-30-2008, 09:03 AM
 
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I found this website but I haven't had a chance to look through it all the way.

http://www.bladderdisorders.info/

When you daughter was tested did they say if she has a neurogenic bladder?

Anne, Mama to Conner 2/27/04 blahblah.gif  Gabrielle 2/6/06 W/LMC-TCS, Neurogenic Bladder, AFO & KAFO wearer, Neurogenic Bowel energy.gif & Delaney 5/12/08 mischievous.gif &  Beethoven cat.gif& Gizmo cat.gif

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#16 of 21 Old 07-30-2008, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh Thank you so much for all of the replies!!!!!


She had a VCUG done. I know there was something else as well but that was the only invasive test.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiding_cystourethrogram

She has done this a few times in stores lately. She's not squatting and then accidentally pees. She's squatting to try NOT to pee. Like someone said, she says she doesn't know it's coming and then it's too close for her to even move without peeing.

I don't know. She's a really smart kid. She's going into third grade doing 5th and 6th grade reading. She's just one of those kids who seems to have no common sense though. I am trying really hard to figure this out in a non dismissive or blaming way. She does have some massive sensory? issues. We just had an episode with her chewing up a battery from her remote and getting battery acid all over her bed linens. Thank goodness, not on herself. Things like that. I don't know anything about aspergers but with so many different diagnosis over the years, I'm wondering if it's something to bring up? I've been told PPD-NOS, ODC, ADHD...

I remember having problems like this when I was a kid. I guess I hid it because my mom doesn't. I still have to get to the bathroom pretty quickly but I guess I outgrew it for the most part.
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#17 of 21 Old 07-30-2008, 12:16 PM
 
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My 6yo was having a lot of dribbling accidents.

I took her to the Dr. to rule out UTI or other issues.

Dr. said that a lot of bladder issues are actually related to consitpation.

My DD was pooping but not fully eliminating. I had no idea. She pooped every day. But, they sent us for an x-ray and she has stool backed way, way up into her bowels.

The dr. started her on MiraLax and she started pooping massive amounts. Within a few days, her accidents stopped completely and have not returned.
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#18 of 21 Old 07-30-2008, 01:27 PM
 
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Oh Thank you so much for all of the replies!!!!!


She had a VCUG done. I know there was something else as well but that was the only invasive test.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiding_cystourethrogram

She has done this a few times in stores lately. She's not squatting and then accidentally pees. She's squatting to try NOT to pee. Like someone said, she says she doesn't know it's coming and then it's too close for her to even move without peeing.

I don't know. She's a really smart kid. She's going into third grade doing 5th and 6th grade reading. She's just one of those kids who seems to have no common sense though. I am trying really hard to figure this out in a non dismissive or blaming way. She does have some massive sensory? issues. We just had an episode with her chewing up a battery from her remote and getting battery acid all over her bed linens. Thank goodness, not on herself. Things like that. I don't know anything about aspergers but with so many different diagnosis over the years, I'm wondering if it's something to bring up? I've been told PPD-NOS, ODC, ADHD...

I remember having problems like this when I was a kid. I guess I hid it because my mom doesn't. I still have to get to the bathroom pretty quickly but I guess I outgrew it for the most part.
I agree, I think its time to see the Pediatric Urologist. Are you near a Children's Hospital?

My daughter has a Neurogenic Bladder and Neurogenic Bowel (as well as Lipomyelomeningocele and Tethered Spinal Cord). She has had a VCUG 3 times, Renal Ultrasound 6 times and Urodynamics Study 2.

As a PP mentioned bladder and bowel issues are related. Which I had no idea till recently when my daughter was having 14 UTI's in just over a year. Is she constipated at all?

Anne, Mama to Conner 2/27/04 blahblah.gif  Gabrielle 2/6/06 W/LMC-TCS, Neurogenic Bladder, AFO & KAFO wearer, Neurogenic Bowel energy.gif & Delaney 5/12/08 mischievous.gif &  Beethoven cat.gif& Gizmo cat.gif

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#19 of 21 Old 07-30-2008, 03:48 PM
 
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In addition to all the other good advice you've gotten: Teach her to do Kegel exercises. Strengthening the pelvic floor is always a good thing, even if it's not the issue causing this problem!

I used to wet the bed every once in a while when I was sick or sleeping unusually deeply; I would wake up as I started peeing and be unable to stop. When I was about 8, I read in one of my grandma's magazines about Kegels as a way to stop bladder leakage and wondered if that would work for me. Sure enough, it did! I became able to stop the pee at just a few drops and get up and run to the bathroom.

I was able to teach myself to Kegel just by following the magazine instructions to practice stopping peeing while on the toilet, and then squeeze those muscles at other times to exercise them...so it isn't necessary to give your daughter some kind of embarrassing lesson, just to explain!

Good luck!

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#20 of 21 Old 07-30-2008, 04:51 PM
 
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I don't know if this will help but here's what we've learned

my seven-year-old's accidents (we think) are related to allergies.. In fact, she had an allergic reaction when we were talking to her ND about all of this

the theory is that when she eats foods, like citrus fruits, her blood-sugar gets overwhelmed, spikes up and crashes. so, without the sugars- her brain isn't sending her body messages- like bladder full, go pee now. then she gets lathargic and appears to have add/adhd. she also sleeps very heavily- which seems to be from the sugar issue too..

since we learned about all of this (last week) we have limited sugars at night, started a food diary and she has been dry

I don't know for sure that it's an allergy thing but this seems to be working.

anyway..

I really hope you find something that helps your daughter..


(also, Bear isn't a typical allergy kid.. she doesn't have rashes, breathing problems, et cetera- all symptoms were/are inward. we didn't even know until last week just sayin' so you don't totally dismiss the idea..)

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#21 of 21 Old 07-30-2008, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Interesting stuff about the allergies. I don't know how i'd find out?

Constipation- we've had xrays done. She has no excessive amounts like that.
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