If I don't drink it, why would I use it on clothing on my body? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 44 Old 02-25-2005, 09:11 PM
 
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hmmmmm...interesting... i don't drink koolaid either, but not all the clothes i wear were dyed with plant-based dyes.

i am interested in doing some tie-dyeing and would like the kids to be able to help. i'm a very unaccomplished/novice tie-dyer, but back in the day i used to do fabric painting. while browsing around i surmised that procion® dyes seem to be very popular for tie-dye, but are perhaps not so earth and kid friendly. dharma trading co has some non-toxic pigment dyes that they say kids can use, but i imagine that's sorta like the koolaid (which wouldn't work on cotton anyway i don't think). do the plant based dyes last on cotton? i'm thinking of going the pigment route from dharma, but am open to suggestions.

p.s. great organic cotton tees available at www.americanapparel.net

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#32 of 44 Old 02-25-2005, 09:25 PM
 
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Thank you Reese for posting those links. Yes, it is way more constructive to offer options and inspire with examples than simply put others down. I for one have posted several threads here looking for info on dyeing cotton naturally and one mama, ONE mama has consistently answered my questions. Oh, and that mama has not posted on this thread so far... So for those who think their way is the only way, share the love ladies! Pass it on, don't just snub at others who make different choices.

On the other hand I still find the information on dyeing cotton with plants etc confusing. Some sites say to mordant with salt, some with soda ash and alum, some just alum... kind of frustrating. So far the only dyeing I've done has been with teabags because I didn't need to worry about mordanting :



Quote:
Originally Posted by reeseccup
what does how much $$ someone spends or their political leanings have to do with nfl? what, only ubber poor and leftist political leaners have the monopoly on nfl?

as for the natural dyes, not everyone has the same opportunities to be able to just walk outside and pluck blooms or dig up and onion to use for dyes. Not everyone KNOWS there is a more natural option. Instead of showing disdain for using koolaid dyeing, why not show and explain plant dyes and how to dye with plants.

some plant dyeing info:
http://www.quilthistory.com/dye.htm
http://www.pioneerthinking.com/naturaldyes.html
http://www.aurorasilk.com/info/naturaldyes_faq.shtml
http://www.textilelinks.com/dye/natinfo.html
just to get one started

instead of complaining about not so "natural" being used, offer up more natural products to be used instead...instead of m&m's, use organic caro chips or organic chocolate chips...instead of cool whip, organic heavy whipping cream with homemade vanilla extract and either raw honey/organic cane sugar/mollassas/organic maple syrup whipped up nice and fluffy..offer up OPTIONS for the reader to have more natural choices when they may not have known or thought of.

I thought the point of this forum was to also help guide towards that direction those that wish to become more natural with the resources they have available?
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#33 of 44 Old 02-25-2005, 09:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madrone
Thank you for giving a perfect example of why I do not venture very far at MDC these days Leila. If you do not see the intrinsic harm in materialism and consumption, I really do not want to try to explain it to you. It is possible for someone to become caught in the web of consumption in the realm of environmental products also.

AngusChick1, I am pming you.
Why, thank you ... I did not really want you explaining it to me anywayAnd by the way, judging me as so is wrong. You don't even know me

Due with number 5 in August. We do all that crunchy stuff.
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#34 of 44 Old 02-25-2005, 09:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheena
Hmm... is it natural to be judgemental? Not everyone is perfect enough to grind their own cochineal but we're all here because we're striving to live a natural life. Judgemental snobbery just drives people away.

And, it's dyeing not dying.
I agree!!!

Due with number 5 in August. We do all that crunchy stuff.
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#35 of 44 Old 02-25-2005, 09:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sohj
Yup, lead is natural, but it is never as concentrated in nature as it is in manufactured products. Nor is it ever in a "pure" state. It is unrefined. So, it is in a compound that might have some buffering or protective qualities. (Or, maybe not.)

I don't know the ingredients in Dharma Dyes. If they are vegetable based, they would be far less harmful in the concentrations you'd be using for dying...and they would have less "persistence". Many of them would be completely harmless. They also would degrade in the wastestream.

Speaking as a civil engineer (my profession), I can ASSURE you that the waste from a chemical dye plant needs special treatment in the WTP (Wastewater Treatment Plant) to make it fit to be considered "clean".

Of course, you should check the ingredients in everything and consider the possibility of allergic reactions, etc.

Using the argument of whatever-the-element-is-natural-too evades the issues of concentration and persistence. It is also a red herring, because by that logic, lettuce should be avoided during the day as it is a soporific.

And, yes, many pottery glazes are potentially toxic. That is why care should be taken in using them. And using stuff that is glazed. Or made from clay that contains high concentrations of aluminum (kaolin) or other potentially harmful metals. (You cannot avoid metal in clays: Clay is clay and NOT silt because of the presence of ions. You need metallic particles. That's what makes it sticky.)
Well, speaking as an artist, I already know all about clay and glazes and paints. ALL glazes are toxic. The colors are made from mineral concentrations. It is the firing process which makes glazes ok to touch and use once finished. And some colors such as blues, are even toxic still after that.
Thank you for your input. But I do beleive we also need to be very aware of even using natural substances, as they can be just as harmful. Powder from glazes and clay dust will stick to your lungs forever. And i wouldn't feel any more comfortable knowing that those substances got into my water supply than I would koolaid.

Due with number 5 in August. We do all that crunchy stuff.
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#36 of 44 Old 02-25-2005, 09:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madrone
Thank you for giving a perfect example of why I do not venture very far at MDC these days Leila. If you do not see the intrinsic harm in materialism and consumption, I really do not want to try to explain it to you.

AngusChick1, I am pming you.
I have one more issue ....Why would anyone want to follow an example of someone with this attitude?Seriously- have you, like, arrived?

Due with number 5 in August. We do all that crunchy stuff.
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#37 of 44 Old 02-25-2005, 10:15 PM
 
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Speaking as someone who was very unnatural before kids, I can give a little insight. After I had my first, well really while pregnant, I wanted to give her a better healthier life. I took better care of what I ate. That is what started it. Then I knew I wanted to breastfeed. Which led me to AP. And that led me other places. I eventually found this site. And it has opened my eyes so much. I have learned the dangers of shampoo, and now koolaid. Gosh we used to have a kool aid stand every weekend when I was little. Now I know I have poisioned people and took their 10 cents I feel awful. I am trying though. And everytime I learn something new on here. I share it with my husband, who has been very good about all the no poo and everything else I experiment with. But I don't fit in anywhere now it seems. I can't really go to Babycenter, say, and talk about how I am still bf my 3 year old. Or that I ec my baby. Gotten bashed about that enough. So are all of us that are trying to live a better life and looking for you to help us that bad? I was never shown this sort of life before, how could I know that this was an option? And to throw out everything that I used to think was safe and good is a little hard at first. But I am working on it. And I am betting that there are a lot of others working on it to. So instead of saying that we don't belong here, help us belong.
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#38 of 44 Old 02-26-2005, 12:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madrone
Thank you for giving a perfect example of why I do not venture very far at MDC these days Leila. If you do not see the intrinsic harm in materialism and consumption, I really do not want to try to explain it to you. It is possible for someone to become caught in the web of consumption in the realm of environmental products also.







:nana: :nana: :nana: :nana:


bravo madrone.... you have added greatly to this thread. thanks for the brief venture out, and saying what has needed to be said.
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#39 of 44 Old 02-26-2005, 12:55 AM
 
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I use lots of things, chemical and no, in different ways.

All matter is made from atoms. All substances have a chemical makeup. Water is a chemical -- not just water coming from dyeing plants, but ocean water, tap water, water in spit. And you know, if you (or esp. a baby)drink too much water, it can kill you.

I use, for example, poke root to heal myself of mastitis. Very harmful to kids, in any kind of quantity. If you soak your breast in poke root you can't nurse on it for several days. Nasty stuff. But powerfully healing used right.

I use dye-free, fragrance-free vegetable-based soap to wash my clothes and sometiems my skin and also my house. But I don't eat it.

I use vodka to disinfect. No -- I DON'T buy organic vodka for this purpose. Better than lysol, IMO. But nothing I'd give my kids.

Dharma dye has many downfalls. So do the powerful mordants needed to seal natural dyes.

Just because a thing is natural doesn't mean it's good. Lots of natural things are harmful, toxic, carcinogenic, and the like.

Judging a person for dyeing with KoolAid is insane. What if I crushed up mistletoe berries to dye with? Would I be a good person for harvesting or a bad person for using a toxin that I wouldn't eat?

It is natural to judge and to be unkind, and easy to do in faceless forums such as these. Natural or not, it's still not nice. And I bet it doesn't dye up into very pretty karmic colors.
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#40 of 44 Old 02-26-2005, 01:26 AM
 
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Valerie, very nicely said - thank you!

I know I don't moderate over here, but I'm a bit concerned that some of the posts here are becoming personal attacks. You're all lovely momma's who obviously care about creating a better life for your family. Let's not lose site of that.

This is an interesting topic. Can we try to keep this a discussion and not turn it into personal attacks? I think there's so much we can all learn from each other.

This is a quote from our UA - if you have any questions, please feel free to PM a moderator or Cynthia.

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Thanks!
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#41 of 44 Old 02-26-2005, 05:04 AM
 
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This thread has completely depressed me, thank you very much. I grew up drinking lots of grape koolaid, I spent about 10 years mixing and using clay and glazes with very spotty use of respirators, gloves, etc., and I just spent several pregnant months periodically dyeing fabrics with procion dyes, again without gloves, mask, etc.

Crap.
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#42 of 44 Old 02-26-2005, 05:13 AM
 
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yeah, your next baby will probably come out all weird just like Katie, eh?
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#43 of 44 Old 02-26-2005, 05:17 AM
 
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(PS... for anyone who doesn't know, Katie is one of the most extraordinarily perfect beings --spitting to ward off evil eye-- to ever grace the planet. So that was kidding to my lovely pregnant pal.)

Man, I should not post this late at night.
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#44 of 44 Old 02-26-2005, 10:09 AM
 
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Although there is a lot of wonderful information we can share with each other, this particular thread has gone too far into attacking comments.

I am closing this thread now and I encourage you to post freely about the benefits of natural dye options as well as to post helpful threads about natural craft options whenever you would like.
And here is a link, once more, to a fabulous post on dyeing with plants
Plant Dyes


Warmly~
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