Short luteal phase = definite miscarriage? If so, when? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 24 Old 05-10-2010, 10:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I've been searching and searching, but haven't found an answer.

If you conceive during a cycle with a short luteal phase, does this automatically mean a miscarriage? And if so, what is the longest a women will go before losing the baby? Is it possible for the baby to have a heartbeat, and then pass?

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#2 of 24 Old 05-10-2010, 11:01 PM
 
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AFA I know the short luteal phase means there isn't enough time for the fertilized egg to implant properly, thus there wouldn't be enough hormones to prevent your AF from coming.

If the luteal phase causes a 'miscarriage' you will get AF as though you were never pregnant, iirc.

How short is your luteal phase?

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#3 of 24 Old 05-10-2010, 11:11 PM
 
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The luteal phase is the time between ovulation and menstruation. If the luteal phase is too short, there isn't enough time for the egg to implant, and there will be a very early miscarriage around the time that the woman would have expected her period - at that stage, there will probably not be a heartbeat.

However, this miscarriage occurs entirely because the fetus doesn't have enough time to implant. Once you get through a sufficient amount of time post-ovulation, the fetus is well-established and has chances as good as any other fetus at that developmental stage.

Since the fetus develops a heartbeat at ~18 days after conception, many miscarriages involve babies whose hearts beat for a while before they passed.
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#4 of 24 Old 05-11-2010, 01:01 AM
 
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I've conceived 3 times (DD1, DD2 & this current pregnancy) with a very short luteal phase, short enough where I didn't think it would be long enough for an egg to implant. My luteal phases range from 5-8 days. For all my charted cycles since my first pregnancy chart with DS (so, since my December 2003 cycle) the only time my LP has ever exceeded 8 days was when I was pregnant. (Charts, if you're curious. http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/zythe )

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#5 of 24 Old 05-11-2010, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks for the information.

I haven't been charting temps, but do track the days I have my period on a calendar. I have been having 28 day cycles for the most part, with an occasional longer cycle every few months. Since DH and I were only together once last month, I know that I conceived on day 21 of my cycle. That puts me 19 days out from DTD, and I'm trying to figure out if I am "safe" from any complications due to what I am assuming is a short luteal phase.

I had been having menstrual issues 3-4 years ago, got pregnant, and lost the baby at around 8 weeks after a strong heartbeat over 150. It was my second loss. I'm very nervous now.

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#6 of 24 Old 05-11-2010, 09:13 AM
 
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I had been having short cycles of about 25 days for a while, with one or two long ones of 31 days in the year before I got pregnant. The month I conceived, I o'd on day 17. I assume that, since the pg stuck, I probably had a long cycle that month.

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#7 of 24 Old 05-11-2010, 10:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breathless Wonder View Post
Thanks for the information.

I haven't been charting temps, but do track the days I have my period on a calendar. I have been having 28 day cycles for the most part, with an occasional longer cycle every few months. Since DH and I were only together once last month, I know that I conceived on day 21 of my cycle. That puts me 19 days out from DTD, and I'm trying to figure out if I am "safe" from any complications due to what I am assuming is a short luteal phase.

I had been having menstrual issues 3-4 years ago, got pregnant, and lost the baby at around 8 weeks after a strong heartbeat over 150. It was my second loss. I'm very nervous now.
I would not assume that your luteal phase was short this month - you might easily have gotten lucky with one of those longer cycles.

I totally understand the nervousness. The unfortunate thing is that while you are "safe" from complications of the potentially short luteal phase, it's not like that's the only risk out there.

You're about four and a half weeks pregnant right now. Once you hear the heartbeat on a doppler (not on an ultrasound) the odds of miscarriage drop considerably. Hang in there. I hope that everything goes well for you this time, and eight months or so from now you have a beautiful babe in your arms.
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#8 of 24 Old 05-11-2010, 12:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breathless Wonder View Post
Thanks for the information.

I haven't been charting temps, but do track the days I have my period on a calendar. I have been having 28 day cycles for the most part, with an occasional longer cycle every few months. Since DH and I were only together once last month, I know that I conceived on day 21 of my cycle. That puts me 19 days out from DTD, and I'm trying to figure out if I am "safe" from any complications due to what I am assuming is a short luteal phase.

I had been having menstrual issues 3-4 years ago, got pregnant, and lost the baby at around 8 weeks after a strong heartbeat over 150. It was my second loss. I'm very nervous now.
Also wanted to add that DTD on CD 21 doesn't mean you conceived then necessarily. It means you could have conceived some time the week after that, so all the way up to CD 28 possibly.

We dtd on CD 12 and I didn't ovulate until CD 19 and we still conceived.

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#9 of 24 Old 05-24-2010, 06:41 AM
 
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Does anyone have any information about using Vitamin B6 to increase the luteal phase? I have heard about this a few times and was wondering where to find credible info

I'm Olivia. I blog about physiological childbirth, homebirth, and unassisted homebirth!
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#10 of 24 Old 05-25-2010, 09:48 PM
 
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Does anyone have any information about using Vitamin B6 to increase the luteal phase? I have heard about this a few times and was wondering where to find credible info
I'm curious about using B6, too.

blessed Catholic mommy to DD 10/07 and DS 2/09, little one due 8/12!

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#11 of 24 Old 05-27-2010, 02:03 PM
 
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I'm curious about using B6, too.
What is weird to me is that lots of different websites say B6 is great for increasing the luteal phase, but I have seen no indication that it's evidence-based. Yet it is presented as a fact. What's their source? Are there any studies that say B6 really works? Oh, I have even seen Vitamin C listed as a method of lengthening the luteal phase. What's the deal with that? I guess trying to see if it works is the best thing?

There are no side effects or negative aspects, right?

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#12 of 24 Old 06-03-2010, 09:15 AM
 
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Just wanted to add my experience: i charted my cycles. Despite the appearance. Of a lovely 28-day cycle, it was obvious that i ovulated on CD 18 or 19, then got AF 10 days later, if I was lucky. The only times I made it past the 10 day mark were the 4 times I was pregnant. If I ever had a miscarriage bc of the short LP I don't even know it as it seemed like AF.
~ regarding your question about the miscarriage/short LP, if the time has passed since AF should have come, your chance of that concern has passed. Not to say that other miscarriage concerns have vanished, but the short LP problem would be behind you.
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#13 of 24 Old 06-06-2010, 05:20 PM
 
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Im thinking about the same thing. I am nursing, and my luteal phase has been short because of it. Before i was ttc, it was at 8-10days. Once i started ttc two cycles ago, i took progesterone to be on the safe side.

This cycle, my third, i wasnt able to confirm O, so i started the progesterone late, on 5dpo (usually its 3dpo). B ut in the meantime, i got some spotting! (can start as early as day 5 apparently, even day4)

the thing is, it could be implantation, in which case, i dont need the progesterone so much because its already implanted.But...what if it was an early period. I freaked out because my LP has never been that short, and ds is nursing less.
So, to be on the safe side, i took the progesterone last night. Of course, the spotting stopped today.

But ill never know, unless i get the bfp, whether is was implantation or and early period.

if it was an early period, then i am in trouble :-)

I hope you get some answers, because im not getting any.

Maya
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#14 of 24 Old 06-10-2010, 08:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MittensKittens View Post
Does anyone have any information about using Vitamin B6 to increase the luteal phase? I have heard about this a few times and was wondering where to find credible info
I have not heard anything about using B6 to increase luteal phase but I have heard that vitex does. I am doing my best to take it 2x daily. I had an early miscarriage in March; my first month ttc. My luteal phase has been shorter than normal.
http://www.gaiaherbs.com/product.php?id=268

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#15 of 24 Old 06-23-2010, 05:48 PM
 
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I have not heard anything about using B6 to increase luteal phase but I have heard that vitex does. I am doing my best to take it 2x daily. I had an early miscarriage in March; my first month ttc. My luteal phase has been shorter than normal.
http://www.gaiaherbs.com/product.php?id=268

Kymberli Z.
I heard about vitex. Has it lengthened your luteal phase so far?

Sorry to hear about your miscarriage

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#16 of 24 Old 06-24-2010, 03:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MittensKittens View Post
I heard about vitex. Has it lengthened your luteal phase so far?

Sorry to hear about your miscarriage
Thank you! Yes I do think it is helping. I took a few months off from ttc and my cycles have been longer since I started the vitex. I will be keeping better track this month to see how long my luteal phase is. When I take it regularly it also helps with PMS and cramping.

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#17 of 24 Old 04-26-2011, 05:07 PM
 
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I have a short luteal phase, maybe the reason I never got pregnant over years of randomly "not-not trying" to conceive. Last fall I did some OPKs and saw my LP was always 9 days before my period. I read that 50-100mg B6, vitex, and raspberry tea can help, and that natural progesterone cream topically applied during the LP can help, so I did all the supplements for about 2 months, then got pregnant on the first cycle I used the prog cream and tested positive at 11 dpo, 2 days after my period would normally have arrived. I find the cream pretty non-intimidating, and get it from my natural food store. I don't know if it is making the difference or not, but because I've read that corpus luteum can produce less than enough progesterone to maintain implantation, I've kept up the progesterone cream 2x a day all the way into week 13 just to be on the safe side and give my body a little extra progesterone. I had a great ultrasound yesterday, and I'll probably stop the cream at the end of this week. I've found the cream has the added bonus of upping your libido. :)


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#18 of 24 Old 04-27-2011, 06:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MittensKittens View Post

Does anyone have any information about using Vitamin B6 to increase the luteal phase? I have heard about this a few times and was wondering where to find credible info

I had a 7-9 day LP prior to conceiving my first.  I read about B6 and started taking 50mg.  My LP did increase over the next several cycles to 10-12 days, though I average 10 days.  So it may not be evidence based, but there is anecdata.

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Also wanted to add that DTD on CD 21 doesn't mean you conceived then necessarily. It means you could have conceived some time the week after that, so all the way up to CD 28 possibly.
Yep... ds was conceived 5 days after DTD.  You conceive when you O, not when you DTD.

 

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AFA I know the short luteal phase means there isn't enough time for the fertilized egg to implant properly, thus there wouldn't be enough hormones to prevent your AF from coming.

If the luteal phase causes a 'miscarriage' you will get AF as though you were never pregnant, iirc.

Yes, this is my understanding as well.  Basically a chemical pregnancy.  I had 2 of these types of m/c.  The first time I got a very faint BFP on 12 DPO and AF arrived the next day.  The second time I didn't test in time, but my LP was a full 3 days longer than my longest LP and I recognized other early pg symptoms. 

 

I just noticed this thread is about a year old!
 

 


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#19 of 24 Old 04-28-2011, 10:28 PM
 
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I know! How did I miss that and end up posting in this thread? It is a mystery...


First baby due Oct/Nov 2011. Slowly finding my way...

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#20 of 24 Old 04-29-2011, 10:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breathless Wonder View Post

I've been searching and searching, but haven't found an answer.

If you conceive during a cycle with a short luteal phase, does this automatically mean a miscarriage? And if so, what is the longest a women will go before losing the baby? Is it possible for the baby to have a heartbeat, and then pass?


You really have no  reason to think you have a short luteal phase. When a short LP gets in the way of pregnancy you never get a BFP because the egg never has a chance to implant.  Like other posters, my LP is way too short, but I DID have a successful pregnancy...this is my first month charting after I get my IUD out, I can't wait to see what my LP is like now...

 

A short LP would not have anything to do an MC at 8 weeks... I am so sorry for your two losses :( When you get pregnant again you can ask your OB/Midwife about testing your progesterone...

 

Is there any other reason you suspect a short LP? A 28 day cycle is textbook. You could take the Fertility Friends lessons and use it to chart, it will tell you so much about your cycle!

 

Good luck!

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#21 of 24 Old 04-29-2011, 01:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmouse View Post

I know! How did I miss that and end up posting in this thread? It is a mystery...



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#22 of 24 Old 01-26-2012, 10:26 PM
 
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I would like to introduce a new concept here- a short luteal phase is more likely to indicate a lower quality egg ( which may be more likely to have genetic errors as well as cytoplasmic errors).

Thus, a pregnancy resulting in such a cycle, even if implantation occurs successfully, may be more at risk for miscarriage.

This is not a hard and fast rule, but seems more plausible.

I've had two pregnancy losses with conceptions occurring in cycles where my lp would be a short 11 day deal.

My luteal phase has increased after I took vitamin D3.

More information is on my blog.

Http://aboutplanb.blogspot.com
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#23 of 24 Old 09-05-2012, 09:50 AM
 
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progesterone would be my first guess as to a later miscarriage.A short LP (too short) will not supply enough progesterone for implantation..You can not know what your LP was until your next AF comes.Some people are lucky to have a textbook cycle (same length each month) and o the same time every month.Most woman do not have that upper hand. in may my cycle was 25 days with an LP of 9.In june,my cycle was 27 days with an LP of 11. july was 28 days with an LP of 13. august was 28 days with an LP 12.Fertility Friend is a great tool.However,if your cycles differ often(i dont mean irregular)..any tool can be confusing.

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#24 of 24 Old 09-29-2012, 10:19 PM
 
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Just wanted to add my two cents...

 

For as long as I've been charting (about three years), I've always had a luteal phase around seven days. Sometimes it varies (six or eight days), but that is very rare. My son was conceived the second cycle we tried... The preceding two months, my luteal phase was only seven days.

 

We've been TTC again and I've tried B-50 complex and B-100 complex, and my luteal phase has remained at seven days. I had a chemical pregnancy last month. 

 

I've done quite a bit of reading about short luteal phases, and my understanding is that many reproductive endocrinologists are now calling the "luteal phase defect" a myth. Anecdotally, I've also seen stories of quite a few women who have easily conceived with a short luteal phase. 

 

I just wanted to throw that out there so women don't become disheartened by having a short luteal phase. FWIW, my son was conceived quite easily with a seven-day LP. 

 

Thanks!

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