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#241 of 698 Old 04-22-2009, 01:10 AM
 
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Hi everyone!

I'm a longtime lurker at MDC, but only recently jumping in to comment. I just found this tribe, and, while I don't really self-identify as an atheist/agnostic (my beliefs are in flux), I am definitely not religious and I definitely want to raise my daughter secularly. I am not sure yet how we will celebrate (or not) holidays, whether we will attend a UU church, or if we need to tell my mom she can't take my DD to church with her when she visits.

Anyway, I'm glad to find this thread. I'm subbing.

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#242 of 698 Old 04-22-2009, 11:45 AM
 
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(in fact.. i need to go check that old thread in the DDC; you and I might have the same midwife! wouldn't that be a riot! LOL)

ETA: i was close!
Not quite the same midwife, but close indeed. I assume mine isn't of LDS persuasion, though... not that I'd really care too much about having an LDS midwife, so long as she wasn't insisting on priesthood blessings or something like that.

We really used to have a good ex-mo tribe, but it got lost when MDC restructured a while back. Someone should start a new one, eh? Being ex-mo is different than just having been christian and then no longer christian, you know? It's a culture that is pounded into your bones, into every aspect of your life, especially when you are born into it. FWIW, I never believed the church was true, even as a kid, so I really tried to up the cultural stuff so that I could pass. My LDS friends are really amused at how much of the culture I retain even though I haven't even self identified as LDS for over 10 years.
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#243 of 698 Old 04-23-2009, 02:20 PM
 
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Someone should start a new one, eh?
Are you volunteering?
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#244 of 698 Old 04-24-2009, 07:28 PM
 
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No way. I know I'd put it in the wrong place and get in trouble for hurting someone's feelings.

FYT? Religious studies? Spirituality?

ETA: Do I eye spy the big fat "Y" in your (I'm assuming) engagement photo? How things change, eh?
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#245 of 698 Old 04-24-2009, 07:36 PM
 
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It would go in Spirituality, unless you're looking for a discussion/debate, then it'd go in Religious Studies. HTH

So....DD and I were grocery shopping yesterday and were proselytized to AGAIN. I swear we are in the most conservative part of the country...and it's not the south!! I must have Atheist tattooed onto my forehead or something...good grief! It was this little old lady inviting me to her church up the road from my house. I know the church, they are VERY conservative/fundamentalist/evangelical Baptist. They come door knocking every spring/summer...ugh.

Anyways, I took her tract and said thank you and threw it away in trash can in the next aisle. One of these days I'll have the guts to say "We're atheist, no thank you". But it'd start WWIII, so I have some hesitation about it. YKWIM?

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#246 of 698 Old 04-25-2009, 01:03 AM
 
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ETA: Do I eye spy the big fat "Y" in your (I'm assuming) engagement photo? How things change, eh?
Maybe...:

It's one of my best pictures and I figure most people won't notice nor know what it is.

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One of these days I'll have the guts to say "We're atheist, no thank you". But it'd start WWIII, so I have some hesitation about it. YKWIM?
I totally understand. Sometimes it's just not worth the conflict, especially when the chances of changing minds is slim to none.
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#247 of 698 Old 04-25-2009, 01:12 AM
 
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Exactly, it's not like granny-blue-hair is going to say ohhhh ok well I see your point. And I'm certainly not going to fall into epileptic spasms of repentance....so what's the point?

I just hope someday it's not such a freaky thing that you have to even THINK about being careful who you mention it to. It's cool to be gay, it's cool to be multiracial. But atheist?? OMG....THEY are psychos!

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#248 of 698 Old 04-25-2009, 03:06 PM
 
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It's cool to be gay, it's cool to be multiracial. But atheist?? OMG....THEY are psychos!
I'd say it all depends on where you are. It's definitely not cool to be gay or multiracial to some people in certain places. And that's sad.

But yeah...it is weird how people can't seem to understand how someone could be atheist. That's why I like this quote:

Quote:
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
- Stephen Roberts
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#249 of 698 Old 04-25-2009, 07:46 PM
 
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Omg i love that quote!!! Thank you so much!!!!

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#250 of 698 Old 04-26-2009, 06:24 PM
 
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That's interesting

Anyone here see Religulous? We just watched it last night...AWESOME!

Yes! LOVED it. He raised some amazing points. My hubby and I kept having to pause the movie to discuss some of the things he brought up.


Can I join? I'm agnostic, leaning towards atheism. I just haven't found the time to make up my mind My hubby is definitely agnostic leaning the other way, but so far, we've come out unscathed. Our hope is to raise our DS to be a tolerant, embracing member of society. The only issue that we've run into is Christmas, and I seem to be fighting a losing battle on that one. I'll keep working on it though :P


I'm glad this group is here!
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#251 of 698 Old 04-26-2009, 06:25 PM
 
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Hi!

You're not the only one!
I just saw this! So am I! I credit the hardtime I spent in that religion to why I'm so liberal in my religious/non religious beliefs now.
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#252 of 698 Old 04-26-2009, 06:33 PM
 
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Can I join? I'm agnostic, leaning towards atheism. I just haven't found the time to make up my mind
You can be both. An agnostic atheist is just somebody who doesn't belief in god but doesn't know for sure that god doesn't exist (so, pretty much everybody is agnostic to some degree).

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The only issue that we've run into is Christmas, and I seem to be fighting a losing battle on that one. I'll keep working on it though :P
Are you fighting for or against celebrating Christmas?
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#253 of 698 Old 04-27-2009, 10:16 AM
 
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Ugh-ran into an uncomfortable situation at school with my daughter's classmates teh other day. I was sitting outside one of her sister's classes, when her class was walking back to their room. I've done a lot of volunteer work with her class so they all know who I am and two girls at the end of the line walked past me and ask me if my daughter was a christian. This blew my mind, these girls are 7, maybe 8 years old. She had a lot of problems at her school last year with some girls bullying her about not being christian, but we're at a different school this year and she has not dealt with this to my knowledge. So after picking my jaw off the floor after these girls asked me this, I said to them "what did you say?" I was sure I'd misunderstood them and they said that they'd asked her and she said she wasn't. I told them that was their answer then and they went into their class. She's not close to either one of these girls and luckily this year she's in a montessori school so a lot of the families are open minded like us. I'm glad that it didn't bother her and she felt strong enough to stand up to these girls unlike last year where it just tormented her to deal with these kinds of situations. It still made me sad that she even had to deal with it. We are deep in the south and its just such a big freakin' deal here. I wish I'd had some witty reply to those girls the second they asked me that. I was so shocked though. Things like this always remind me that there are people who spend the majority of their lives in a church and just don't get that everyone else doesn't do that.

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#254 of 698 Old 04-27-2009, 12:38 PM
 
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Yowzer. I am really glad we homeschool DD, how infuriating. Bullied by Christians...the irony.....

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#255 of 698 Old 04-27-2009, 07:20 PM
 
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Yowzer. I am really glad we homeschool DD, how infuriating. Bullied by Christians...the irony.....
We HS and this happens to us ALL the time.

In fact, I was on my way into the gym a few days ago with 5 of my kids, and got stopped by a man who demanded to know if we were Pentecostal. I knew where he was going with this, and felt sorry for him as he was about 85 years old (I know it isn't right to treat people gingerly just because they're old...but still)...

I told him, no, I'm not, and he asked if we must homeschool, since we're on our way into the gym in the early morning, and I said yes, we do. He said something else that indicated we must be Christian...

Sigh. It wasn't worth fighting about. I honestly don't know what to do about these kinds of folks. I got stopped last week in Safeway because one of the guys in the bakery dept thought we "looked like their kind of people." (Turns out he's husband to a preaching homeschooling mother). Yipes.

I just keep smiling.

FWIW, though,, and not to start any arguments...my best friend is LDS and her daughter often spends the night with us. We play a lot of games, and one of them is "The Da Vinci Game." It had a question the other day about how many people lived on Earth during the time of Christ, and of course the LDS version of history is different...I was thrown, we put the question out and went with a different one.

I'd like some sane references to LDS lore, but I also don't want to preach atheism at her daughter, any more than I want her to preach at my kids. It's a really hard row to hoe, being non-religious.

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#256 of 698 Old 04-27-2009, 07:29 PM
 
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You can be both. An agnostic atheist is just somebody who doesn't belief in god but doesn't know for sure that god doesn't exist (so, pretty much everybody is agnostic to some degree).



Are you fighting for or against celebrating Christmas?

I'd like to steer away from it. Not just for the Christian aspect of it, but because of how commercial it has become, even among our families. DH argues that since both our respective families celebrate, we'd have a long battle ahead, and many lines to draw. Of course, some hurt feelings, no doubt.
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#257 of 698 Old 04-27-2009, 07:33 PM
 
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I'd like some sane references to LDS lore, but I also don't want to preach atheism at her daughter, any more than I want her to preach at my kids. It's a really hard row to hoe, being non-religious.
Forgive the double post.

What sort of information are you looking for? It seems there are a few of us who are "post" mormons and mignt be able to help you out there.

Though, a lot of their "lore" is not sane, and it's hard to digest, even with an open mind.
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#258 of 698 Old 04-27-2009, 09:51 PM
 
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Though, a lot of their "lore" is not sane, and it's hard to digest, even with an open mind.
:

But...we might need to be careful what we say on MDC especially since this thread isn't in the religious studies forum. Can't speak for the other post-Mormon mamas but I'm happy to reply to PM and e-mail. I also have a blog on the topic.
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#259 of 698 Old 04-27-2009, 10:27 PM
 
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:

But...we might need to be careful what we say on MDC especially since this thread isn't in the religious studies forum. Can't speak for the other post-Mormon mamas but I'm happy to reply to PM and e-mail. I also have a blog on the topic.
Yup. That's why I'm hesitant to start a new ex-mo tribe. It's hard to talk about at all without ruffling feathers... which is a bummer. Oh well.
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#260 of 698 Old 04-27-2009, 11:56 PM
 
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I don't know where stepping over the line will be here...so I will just happily read the blogs and other info put out there by post-LDS people. My best friend (whose husband became a bishop this last year) is honestly a truly intelligent person, and I don't understand why she really believes all these stories.

If not the "why" then I hope to find out the "what" of what they truly believe. Knowledge is power, right?



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#261 of 698 Old 04-28-2009, 07:29 PM
 
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If not the "why" then I hope to find out the "what" of what they truly believe. Knowledge is power, right?
There are plenty of very good resources online that can answer your questions. If you're curious, PM me.

As to your "Da Vinci Game" situation with the neighbor girl... I was LDS for 30 years and I don't think I would ever have been able to answer that question. I still can't guess how many people were on the planet 2000 years ago. Can I use a lifeline? LOL

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#262 of 698 Old 04-30-2009, 12:34 AM
 
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Yup. That's why I'm hesitant to start a new ex-mo tribe. It's hard to talk about at all without ruffling feathers... which is a bummer. Oh well.
It's too bad. Much like other religions need to gather together for support, I think it would be nice to have support from those who have BTDT in terms of leaving the mormon church.

There are a lot of amazing resources on the net if you are looking for "what" they actually believe. It can be hard to filter through because there are a lot of bitter ex-mo's out there that have sort of twisted the beliefs. For what reason, I'm not sure, but it can be hard to find the "real" information.
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#263 of 698 Old 04-30-2009, 12:49 PM
 
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Can I join?

Maybe i have before, haha, but have the worst memory *ever* and forgot.

I'm an atheist - new to it as of around July 08. I was raised super christian and raised DD5 that way as well, so you know, she still believes. I refuse to pop her bubble though - esp. since I got divorced last year as well...that's a lot for a kid. We've stopped taking her to church and egging it on though...and when she asks about god, I'm honest with my beliefs (in an gentle, age appropriate way). Xdh supports me as he leans towards the agnostic side. My parents are another story.

Anyway, I just got married on the 18th to my wonderful DH (who just so happens to be an ex-mormon, now atheist, which apparently is popular? lol)

So yeah! hello
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#264 of 698 Old 04-30-2009, 02:02 PM
 
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Can I join?

Maybe i have before, haha, but have the worst memory *ever* and forgot.

I'm an atheist - new to it as of around July 08. I was raised super christian and raised DD5 that way as well, so you know, she still believes. I refuse to pop her bubble though - esp. since I got divorced last year as well...that's a lot for a kid. We've stopped taking her to church and egging it on though...and when she asks about god, I'm honest with my beliefs (in an gentle, age appropriate way). Xdh supports me as he leans towards the agnostic side. My parents are another story.

Anyway, I just got married on the 18th to my wonderful DH (who just so happens to be an ex-mormon, now atheist, which apparently is popular? lol)

So yeah! hello

Welcome!

How are you enjoying married life? :
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#265 of 698 Old 05-03-2009, 03:11 PM
 
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#266 of 698 Old 05-03-2009, 04:34 PM
 
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If you start a post-LDS thread in Spirituality it will be ok I'm sure. I can start one if you'd like? I'm not post-LDS, I'm post-fundamentalist though. Similar concept. Different details. Same jello at the potlucks

Does anyone else here go to church on Sundays? I enjoy going, we head to our local UU church that is very atheist friendly so it's really nice to find 20+ people that think like you in a world of religious folk. Plus I love having a place for my kids to be comfortable in their own skin.

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#267 of 698 Old 05-03-2009, 10:42 PM
 
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If you start a post-LDS thread in Spirituality it will be ok I'm sure. I can start one if you'd like? I'm not post-LDS, I'm post-fundamentalist though. Similar concept. Different details. Same jello at the potlucks

Does anyone else here go to church on Sundays? I enjoy going, we head to our local UU church that is very atheist friendly so it's really nice to find 20+ people that think like you in a world of religious folk. Plus I love having a place for my kids to be comfortable in their own skin.
We've contemplated going to the UU, even the Buddhist church here, but I think we're going to stay away from organized religion as a whole. Sundays are generally our "family" day, and since we have so much going on during the week, it's nice to have one day where we hang out at home.

UU was an interesting concept though!
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#268 of 698 Old 05-04-2009, 12:40 AM
 
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Married life is great, thanks

So I want to know more about UU church? There is one in Eugene, and apparently Eugene is pretty non-religious...i'm wondering how many other atheist/agnostic families would be there?

I'm not sure if I could deal with being preached to...I REALLY don't want to waste my time listening to mythology...how do the services usually go?

I think it would be nice to meet like minded people though...and good socialization for my kiddo

What about tithes? Do they have tithes? I'm just wondering how "christian" UU actually is?

TIA
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#269 of 698 Old 05-04-2009, 02:47 AM
 
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Most UUs really try to embrace the RITUAL of community religious/cultural practices without utilizing the creedal dogma. Today during 'sermon time', for lack of a better term, he took questions that were put in the collection basket (he had asked for them ahead of time). One was 'what is the UU belief on heaven and hell' and he said well, we sure don't study THAT in seminary, we study how to help YOU find YOUR belief, whether or not it includes heaven or hell or just nothing. He pointed out that what we KNOW for a fact is that if you are a good person in life, you will be remembered that way after death. If you are a jerk...well....there ya go. So in that sense he pointed out that's an eternal memory that will get passed to others, do you want to be remembered well, or do you want everyone to be glad you kicked the bucket? Food for thought LOL

Then he shared HIS belief in reincarnation and asked one of our members to share their belief in reality being an illusion (Buddhist) and asked an atheist member to share their belief (this is it, after this is nothing for everyone and that's ok). He did not say 'we don't know the right answer' but he DID say we all possess our own right answers. He did briefly get onto a tangent about heaven and hell and whether or not it applies to aliens (if there are any) because it's a specifically earth centered and christianesque belief, and he quoted star wars, which is a running joke in our congregation that whenever you get too far off course a good star wars quote makes it all worth it.

FWIW our minister (interim) is gay and a practicing Hindu.

Another question was if UUs are just liberal christians, or if UU is even a religion. He said wellllllll, it's not my job to define that for you, it's my job to help you define that for yourself and THAT is the right answer...so by show of hands how many people here think UU is a liberal christian belief system. NO ONE raised their hand. Then he asked if we thought UU was a religion at all, raise your hand. Again, no one.

Keep in mind I'm in a really conservative area of the country...mostly christian. So this is a big deal to find people that are comfortable walking away from religion. And it's an even bigger deal for my kids to have a community of families and kids that welcome them the way they are, that are ok with atheist tshirts and scientific discussion during service. You should see the bumper stickers in the lot for this group....absolutely hilarious!

We celebrate the seasons/earth and quote scientists, peace activists, people who happen to have religion and people who dont. And it's a great venue for us to find social justice causes to focus our energy towards. When everyone around you is a christian, it's nice to just have a place to go to be around like minded folks. We joke that we meet on Sunday mornings because that's when the donuts are on sale

As for tithes...ummm no way! We have a pledge drive though to raise money to fund our building and programs, but it's all 100% transparent and the congregation knows where every dime is spent. It's made clear no one is at ALL obligated to offer any money nor is there any discussion of money that is 'owed to god' or any nonsense like that. It's just a community effort to make it work, if someone can't or doesn't want to contribute, it's a non issue.

We're really laid back LOL There was one sunday someone played the accordion during the meditation moment, and instead of meditating people started clapping and before you could blink a polka dance broke out. People are moving chairs and clapping and stomping feet yelling Opa! (don't know how greek meshed in....but anywhoo) and the minister said this was proof they (the trained ministers) don't genuinely have control over anything...LOL Now when we greet each other at the beginning, half the time he just goes to sit down for a few minutes because people just do their own thing LOL

There is structure to the service, and some is serious time for contemplation. But it's just awesome to feel 'not alone' in this sea of religion...to find a place where we can just relax and be US...happy atheist people!

Sorry for the book...

ETA: This Link is the newcomer questions to the UU in Eugene, from reading it that's pretty much what ours says too. HTH!

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#270 of 698 Old 05-04-2009, 06:43 PM
 
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DH and I briefly considered attending a UU fellowship, but neither of us really craves the kind of social interaction or structured community that a church provides. There is a local Post-Mormon group here that we'd love to hang out with (we are in an online chat group with many of them), but so far haven't really felt drawn to that either, for similar reasons. The "forced socialization" of our religious upbringing kind of turned us off to wanting or needing that. Sunday is our family time, too, and for once it's nice to not have meetings, appointments and obligations. But I do think UU might be a fun way to teach kids about the world's many angles to mythology and belief systems, and at least expose them to various religions without indoctrinating them to any specific one, so that they can come to their own conclusions and make that choice for themselves. (DH and I were both born into a specific faith system, but were never allowed to "choose" one for ourselves, so we want to break that cycle with our own kids.)

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