any radical feminists on MDC? - Page 9 - Mothering Forums

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Old 06-20-2011, 12:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I love long hair on males!  Little boys with long hair is just the cutest thing in the world to me!  I generally keep my hair pretty short these days.  I'm growing it out, but short hair on mothers makes perfect sense to me. LOL

 

But what is a nugget girl?  What does that mean?

 

The long hair thing must really depend on where you live.  Around here, it's totally normal for males of all ages to have long hair.  Other places...not so much.  I remember when I shaved my head a few years ago.  I guy I was sleeping with basically stopped talking to me, he was so upset.  He said, "I liked your hair!"  I replied, "It's hair.  It'll grow back." 

 

People are just weird with hair.  Sorry your son is going through crap because of it.  They're probably just jealous. ;)

 

As far as the topic of the kids being "enough": HECK NO they're not necessarily enough.  I think people say that because they have been brainwashed and/or have some childhood pain with regard to their mothers.  The mentality of having children somehow fulfilling you on every level (and now you can die in peace since you have grown a human and expunged it through your vaginal cavity!...or otherwise) is so classically sexist, it throws me off every time I encounter it.  I am a human being, regardless of birthing status and I don't need to be intercepted by sperm in order to find all the joy and happiness life has to offer.  It's possible that I may look further than my uteral and vulvar regions for life satisfaction.  Who knew?!

 

Good luck, Mama Soltera.  Maybe start looking into what would make you happier, career-wise, and start taking baby-steps toward it. 


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Old 06-20-2011, 01:30 AM
 
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Thanks for your replies. I really appreciate it, both of you. I absolutely do need more intellectual stimulation. My current job is not giving that to me and, despite the fact that I graduated at the top of my class, I cannot seem to get another job. I just get rejection after rejection. I think part of that is that my experience is in fields unrelated to my degree (I'm trying to change my career path).

 

Also, as a solo mother, I really need a romantic adult relationship/partnership. But I am having no luck there. I really hate the double standard where a man with children has little to no problems dating but women with more than one child, well, it's very hard. And there are not a lot of feminist men out there that I have seen.

 

Anyway, sorry to vent. I am just feeling very stuck in my life and it doesn't help when people have the attitude that, "Well, you're a mom (and a full-time single mom at that) so you just have to work and support your kids and if you have no satisfaction or happiness or down-time in life, oh well, the kids are worth it. End of story." I just cannot survive like that. I truly cannot.



Really? Do you think there is a significant difference in dating if you have two kids vs one kid? That is interesting. I am solo with two kids as well, but I am not interested in dating.


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Old 06-20-2011, 11:30 AM
 
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I feel like it makes a difference when you have three. lol I guess I can see how that would be scary to some men.

 

I believe the kid meant that my son was a girl with balls. Nice, huh? He also told him to get a haircut. They go to an alternative school and no one would ever say anything (much less notice) about the long hair thing. I agree, boys look adorable with long hair. It's just interesting to me to see how many alternative/natural/feminist type women still keep their boys' hair very short and traditional looking. Maybe it does come from a place of not wanting their kids to stand out and risk getting made fun of. I can understand that but then that is why things take so long to change. Fear.

 

Princesstutu, thanks so much for your thoughts. I really agree with you and I am starting to take those baby steps. It's a little scary when my kids are depending fully on me financially but having a miserable mom is not good for them either. I appreciate your encouragement. :)

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Old 06-20-2011, 11:46 AM
 
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mama s.. i don't think that it's healthy or normal to 'live for your kids.' 

i think humans need companionship and love from a variety of sources, and also need a good bit of self expression, in whatever form that takes, to be truly happy. 

like, i like to make stuff.  and sit on my butt and read.  and play in the woods sometimes.  and if i don't get to do those things, it makes me a little off balance.  i have a great career.  i am lucky.  but i have had this career when i didn't have a kid or a significant other, and it sucked.  a career can't sustain someone/ just as the love of your children, however meaningful it is, cannot. 

 

would people be saying this to just lift you up a little?  i have noticed that in our society, when anyone alludes to being depressed (or upset with anything- the current political situation or the price of gas or whatever) then people automatically put those "you shouldn't be unhappy" kinds of trips on you.  like depression isn't a normal state and they have to talk you out of it. 

 

is there something besides kids and work you like to do?  or have always wanted to do?  could you find some fulfillment taking a class or doing some kind of performance art or something?  my advice is to do that thing.  as soon as you can. 

there are feminist men out there.  they do exist!  :) 

 


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Old 06-21-2011, 06:54 PM
 
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Mama Soltera- I can definately see where you are coming from. I think that while your children are obviously an important part of your life- too many women make them the only focus of their lfie shutting out all other opportunities. If you are happy doing that it is one thing, but many of us need other sources of fulfillment. Hang in there with looking for a new job. Do you have the opportunity to join any outside activities/do volunteer work? Sometimes those kind of non-networking things can lead to jobs and even relationships ( and adult time!!) My job is stressful at times but I really feel like I am making a difference and that social work is my "calling" and that is why I work- I don't feel "guilty" that I am not home with my son as I dont think I would be nearly as good at being a stay at home mom!!


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Old 06-23-2011, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well, I'd like some input on a challenge I am facing in my life.  I think this pertains to radical feminism.

 

I have real, fundamental, philosophical, ethical, and spiritual problems with capitalism.  Always have. 

 

However, this challenge is getting in the way of my financial freedom and success.  (Well, of course it is, right?)  I do not do well as an employee (emotionally) and so I am working to move past my issues with capitalism in order to be successful as an entrepreneur.

 

Anyone else struggle with this? 

 

I have plenty of (I think) great ideas and I am passionate about them...up until the marketing perspective comes in.

 

Now, I have tried to convince myself that I can just "do my thing" and money will follow, but that hasn't worked out to my financial benefit.  Any ideas?  Book suggestions?  People to research and emulate? 

 

 


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Old 06-23-2011, 01:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princesstutu View Post

Well, I'd like some input on a challenge I am facing in my life.  I think this pertains to radical feminism.

 

I have real, fundamental, philosophical, ethical, and spiritual problems with capitalism.  Always have. 

 

However, this challenge is getting in the way of my financial freedom and success.  (Well, of course it is, right?)  I do not do well as an employee (emotionally) and so I am working to move past my issues with capitalism in order to be successful as an entrepreneur.

 

Anyone else struggle with this? 

 

I have plenty of (I think) great ideas and I am passionate about them...up until the marketing perspective comes in.

 

Now, I have tried to convince myself that I can just "do my thing" and money will follow, but that hasn't worked out to my financial benefit.  Any ideas?  Book suggestions?  People to research and emulate? 

 

 


What kind of ideas are you after? Career ideas? In that case - running or being part of non-profit organizations that support a cause you agree with, women's centers, ecological organizations, something like that. If you are a writer, writing for alternative publications can also be an option. It is important to realize nobody can escape the system and that it is possible to be employed or be an employer yourself (an ethical one)while still working for change. Another option would be to be employed, but to be active in a trade union to further the rights of workers as well. 

 


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Old 06-27-2011, 09:56 AM
 
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What kind of ideas are you after? Career ideas? In that case - running or being part of non-profit organizations that support a cause you agree with, women's centers, ecological organizations, something like that. If you are a writer, writing for alternative publications can also be an option. It is important to realize nobody can escape the system and that it is possible to be employed or be an employer yourself (an ethical one)while still working for change. Another option would be to be employed, but to be active in a trade union to further the rights of workers as well. 

 




I second this. I do not have any literature recommendations, but I do see the ambiguity in my daily life as well.


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Old 06-29-2011, 12:20 PM
 
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We had a run-in with gender stereotyping today, and I am feeling particularly lost write now. You can read about it on my blog here http://www.writeaboutbirth.com/index.php/gender-stereotyping-can-you-free-your-kids-from-it/rambling/ if you have the patience. 

 

How do we free ourselves from this? It sucks so badly.


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Old 07-01-2011, 04:54 PM
 
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It always sneaks in somehow. We are immersed in the culture whether we agree on it or not. But here's what we have going for us: We are actually thinking about these things and open to discussing and dissecting them. It comes out in our kids at a certain age but luckily that's the age where we can start talking to them about it and explaining (depending on their age just a little or a lot) what our culture says about things and why and (more importantly) what we have to say about it and why. The older my kids get, the more we discuss it, and the more they learn what ways they feel comfortable accepting or rejecting the cultural status quo when it comes to gender. But yeah, I know what you mean about that sinking feeling where you see how much of it they've actually absorbed despite your steadfastness. Just know you're not alone.

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Old 07-22-2011, 06:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princesstutu View Post

Well, I'd like some input on a challenge I am facing in my life.  I think this pertains to radical feminism.

 

I have real, fundamental, philosophical, ethical, and spiritual problems with capitalism.  Always have. 

 

However, this challenge is getting in the way of my financial freedom and success.  (Well, of course it is, right?)  I do not do well as an employee (emotionally) and so I am working to move past my issues with capitalism in order to be successful as an entrepreneur.

 

Anyone else struggle with this? 

 

I have plenty of (I think) great ideas and I am passionate about them...up until the marketing perspective comes in.

 

Now, I have tried to convince myself that I can just "do my thing" and money will follow, but that hasn't worked out to my financial benefit.  Any ideas?  Book suggestions?  People to research and emulate? 

 

 



Huge radical feminist right here!! love.gif I'm so happy I found a bunch of other women who "get it" in regards to the importance of feminism and why patriarchy is even detrimental to men!!

 

Princesstutu, check out the documentary "The Economics of Happiness" I think you might find it inspiring. I understand what you mean, and have decided that I want to teach philosophy and feminist theory someday, and I want to work, possibly, in family and civil law in the non-profit sector so I can help people who live in poverty not be victimized by a system that caters to people with the most money. I've also found the work of Jane Addams to be extremely inspiring, and would love to start my own settlement house someday!!luxlove.gif


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Old 07-23-2011, 12:37 PM
 
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princesstutu, that's exactly why i do what i do for a living. 

as you probably know dh & i are anticapitalists and anarchists.  dh owned his own business when we were married.  he sold it, though. 

he felt that it was perfectly fine for him to do this as it allowed him to work for himself and he resolved never to have employees, which is what we have philosophically the most problem with. the business was based also around supplying products to people who enjoyed a particular DIY activity (to be perfectly vague).. that sounds illegal.  it wasn't ;)  he also didn't make an extraordinary amount of money. 

i guess it depends on the business you want to run.  you know that there are many collectively run businesses out there, if you're planning on having people work with you & that's what kind of business you have in mind, take a look at some of those.. there are lots of bakeries and coffeeshops out there (just google collective bakery etc)

sorry to point you to wikipedia (lazy me) but there's a really good entry on worker cooperatives.

did you have a business in mind already or are thinking of ideas? 

collective labor is not capitalist.  it's anti capitalist <3


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Old 07-23-2011, 02:05 PM
 
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 I am boggled by women who are not pro-choice. I understand it's their right, but...I just don't comprehend how one feels that's even a possibility. How could you NOT think you should be able to do what you need to do with your own life and body?


peace


Hi Princess!

 

I want to introduce another perspective on the issue, one of a woman who is pro-life, but considers herself to be very involved with women's rights. I don't call myself a feminist (because I believe that the feminism of the 70s is dead, unfortunately, and because I don't like "isms" or "ists" in general), but I do make life decisions based on my awareness of patriarchal schemes and historical control. Now, back to the issue at hand. Although I consider myself to be a liberal on other political issues, the reason I never belonged to a political party is that there is one issue I just don't agree with. And this is it. Have you ever considered that the people who are pro-life (other than the religious nuts who are..well, extremists) may feel this way for reasons other than they don't think that what a woman does with her body and life should be up to her? I certainly believe that. But my conflict is that I feel that from the moment a child is conceived (actually, possibly even before that if you consider my spiritual inclinations) it is a human being. It is a person, an innocent being, that just HAPPENS to need a body within which to develop enough to be born. The theory that it is a woman's body is lost on me, as it is not a woman's arm, leg, ear, or fingernail. It is a separate being brought into existence residing INSIDE the woman. To me, killing a baby (and to me, a baby is a baby from the day it is conceived regardless of whether you call it a zygote, embryo, or fetus. Those are scientific names for a child in a certain stage of development. Saying it is not yet a human is like saying a 5 year old is not yet a human because she is not as developed as a 7 year old.) is murder. It doesn't make a difference to me whether you stab a person in front of you or within you, just like it doesn't make a difference how old the person is. I don't mean any disrespect, and I don't want to bring judgement into it. Just wanted to offer my views and possibly another perspective since you said you couldn't understand. Abortion, as I see it, is not a right, no more than murder is. It has nothing to do with feminism ro self-empowerment. It is a separate issue and I wish people would remove it from bundles of political views which have thus far guided our country on it typical path. Peace!

 


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Old 07-23-2011, 03:52 PM
 
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As far as I am aware, MDC does not host abortion debates, for good reason. The last thing I want to hear on the 4th anniversary of my abortion is you calling me a murderer. cold.gif

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Old 07-23-2011, 04:41 PM
 
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As far as I am aware, MDC does not host abortion debates, for good reason. The last thing I want to hear on the 4th anniversary of my abortion is you calling me a murderer. cold.gif


I'm sorry you feel I am calling you a name. The PP stated she didn't understand how women could be anti-abortion and I was simply offering my standpoint. I specifically refrained from judgement of other MDC members or name calling. Peace to you, mama!


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Old 07-23-2011, 04:58 PM
 
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Topos, when people say "her body" they mean her body. Pregnancy and childbirth wreak some serious havok on a woman's body. And I'm not talking about putting on weight or anything like that. It effects her health, her metabolism, can cause all kinds of complications, it permanently moves bones, rips and scars skin in delicate and not-so-delicate places, even breaks bones sometimes. Your body as you know it will never be the same  after carrying and delivering a full-term baby.

 

I respect the opinions of others but I'm pretty shocked you expect everyone else to accept your comparing an abortion to murdering a child. Everyone has different experiences and beliefs but a blastocyst and a young embryo are *extremely* different things than a full-term fetus or a toddler or a child.


I can understand your wanting to respond to tutu's comment, but your post did come across and extreme and inaccurate and was probably hurtful and upsetting to many. I do think it's a good topic to explore as far as feminism goes, but I think that telling a woman she is the same as a person who would murder a seven-year-old and assuming that your spiritual/intellectual beliefs are the only right ones is not the way to go about it. Just my 2 cents.

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Old 07-23-2011, 05:01 PM
 
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Oops, I forgot to add that my point in talking about "her body" is to say that it is the right of no one but her to decide if she is willing and able to put her body through all of that. Forcing a woman to do it would be a crime, imo.

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Old 07-23-2011, 05:03 PM
 
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Adeline's mama, your baby looks so sweet and beautiful. She's very lucky to have a mama who wanted her 100% and was ready to give her the absolute best. I hope you don't still have the chills.

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Old 07-23-2011, 05:17 PM
 
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Topos, when people say "her body" they mean her body. Pregnancy and childbirth wreak some serious havok on a woman's body. And I'm not talking about putting on weight or anything like that. It effects her health, her metabolism, can cause all kinds of complications, it permanently moves bones, rips and scars skin in delicate and not-so-delicate places, even breaks bones sometimes. Your body as you know it will never be the same  after carrying and delivering a full-term baby.

 

I respect the opinions of others but I'm pretty shocked you expect everyone else to accept your comparing an abortion to murdering a child. Everyone has different experiences and beliefs but a blastocyst and a young embryo are *extremely* different things than a full-term fetus or a toddler or a child.


I can understand your wanting to respond to tutu's comment, but your post did come across and extreme and inaccurate and was probably hurtful and upsetting to many. I do think it's a good topic to explore as far as feminism goes, but I think that telling a woman she is the same as a person who would murder a seven-year-old and assuming that your spiritual/intellectual beliefs are the only right ones is not the way to go about it. Just my 2 cents.


I don't expect people to accept anything they don't feel comfortable with. I am sorry my opinion seems extreme and that it hurts people's feelings, but it is my genuine opinion, just as pro-choice is yours. I find pro-choice beliefs to be inaccurate, hurtful, and upsetting. But I live with the legality of abortion daily. That's the beauty of opinions. They CAN'T be inaccurate.That's the beauty of America, as well. We have differences of points of view. I was offering another perspective in regards to how SOME (myself included) may consider themselves to be feminists without sharing the popular feminist abortion view. I disagree that a blastocyst and a young embryo are extremely different from a toddler. That is not what I believe spiritually. By nature, my spiritual/intellectual beliefs are right for me. They may not be for you. I wasn't trying to convert anyone to them. I was stating them to make it clear how a pro-life feminist views the topic. I respect you and your point of view and did not want to hurt anyone's feelings. I was just being honest. I didn't say what you assert in the last two sentences, so I don't feel I need to defend it. 

 


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Old 07-23-2011, 05:18 PM
 
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Adeline's mama, your baby looks so sweet and beautiful. She's very lucky to have a mama who wanted her 100% and was ready to give her the absolute best. I hope you don't still have the chills.



I agree with this. I am sorry you are hurt by my opinion. It is not directed at you personally. It is my societal and spiritual view. Your baby IS gorgeous. joy.gif


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Old 07-24-2011, 12:10 AM
 
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We had a run-in with gender stereotyping today, and I am feeling particularly lost write now. You can read about it on my blog here http://www.writeaboutbirth.com/index.php/gender-stereotyping-can-you-free-your-kids-from-it/rambling/ if you have the patience. 

 

How do we free ourselves from this? It sucks so badly.


I've been battling this since my DD went into daycare, when I went back to school. Unfortunately for her she has a mama who is very feminine in some ways,I love the color pink and I am very feminine in how I dress, but I refuse to wear makeup and I hate many, many things that are stereotypically feminine, and my DD seems to be following in her mother's footsteps, ie being feminine yet being herself (for now anyway). Some of the ways that I have tried to express my morals and values about societal gender roles is by reading my DD "pedagogical" stories. The ones that I have read to her so far are "Princess Boy" (this one is my personal favorite), "It's Okay to Be Different", and "William's Doll". Ultimately, my goal is to reinforce to her that gender roles are socially  constructed, just like society itself, and that societal roles and rules aren't facts of nature; they can change as humans and society evolve, and are fluid not concrete. 

 

What I find fascinating and ultimately disturbing in respect to western culture is how in many other cultures around the world gender roles aren't rigid they are more fluid, and transgender individuals have an accepted, opposed to ostracized, place in society, and in some cases are considered holy or sacred. I find this subject both fascinating, and disturbing. At the college I go to I have the option of taking a class called "Gender Diversity" that explores this issue even further, and I plan on taking it at some point before graduate, so that I can learn more about it.

 

I'm right with you MittensKittens. I totally understand what you are getting at. thumb.gif

 


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Old 07-27-2011, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ooops!  I posted and jetted, again.  It happens.  Thanks for replying, everyone!

 

Since I got that anti-capitalism post out, I've made headway on my businesses.  I have 3 main ones: life coach (of sorts, more of a telephone cheering squad who also offers clear perspective when needed), continuing to offer my parenting classes, and becoming a fortune teller at farmers markets. ;)  That last one is simply for the fun of it.  Also, I've taken my jewelry-making to another level and have my first order! 

 

I worked for non-profits.  It's not my thing.  I was a community organizer for a bit here in CA and I found it highly depressing after a while.  So many "progressives" are not as spiritually progressive as I need in order to be around them all day.  I don't want my daily life (and the daily life of my baby, who is with me where ever I work since she's been born) surrounded by anger and war mentalities.  Got burnt out really quickly with that.  Not enough love in the industry...and it *is* an industry.  So, I just pushed myself (b/c why be my own impediment any longer?) and made some progress.  I'm really proud of myself! 

 

Also, since I'm a writer, I've written a couple of pieces that I want to submit, but now I just need to find the gumption for all that. ;)  One step at a time.  I'm walking, no matter how slowly.

 

Now, to something a bit more controversial, huh?
 

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Originally Posted by Toposlonoshlep View Post

Hi Princess!

 

I want to introduce another perspective on the issue, one of a woman who is pro-life, but considers herself to be very involved with women's rights. I don't call myself a feminist (because I believe that the feminism of the 70s is dead, unfortunately, and because I don't like "isms" or "ists" in general), but I do make life decisions based on my awareness of patriarchal schemes and historical control. Now, back to the issue at hand. Although I consider myself to be a liberal on other political issues, the reason I never belonged to a political party is that there is one issue I just don't agree with. And this is it. Have you ever considered that the people who are pro-life (other than the religious nuts who are..well, extremists) may feel this way for reasons other than they don't think that what a woman does with her body and life should be up to her? I certainly believe that. But my conflict is that I feel that from the moment a child is conceived (actually, possibly even before that if you consider my spiritual inclinations) it is a human being. It is a person, an innocent being, that just HAPPENS to need a body within which to develop enough to be born. The theory that it is a woman's body is lost on me, as it is not a woman's arm, leg, ear, or fingernail. It is a separate being brought into existence residing INSIDE the woman. To me, killing a baby (and to me, a baby is a baby from the day it is conceived regardless of whether you call it a zygote, embryo, or fetus. Those are scientific names for a child in a certain stage of development. Saying it is not yet a human is like saying a 5 year old is not yet a human because she is not as developed as a 7 year old.) is murder. It doesn't make a difference to me whether you stab a person in front of you or within you, just like it doesn't make a difference how old the person is. I don't mean any disrespect, and I don't want to bring judgement into it. Just wanted to offer my views and possibly another perspective since you said you couldn't understand. Abortion, as I see it, is not a right, no more than murder is. It has nothing to do with feminism ro self-empowerment. It is a separate issue and I wish people would remove it from bundles of political views which have thus far guided our country on it typical path. Peace!

 



Hi!  Thanks for sharing your perspective with me.  I hear you, I understand what you're saying, I still don't understand the mentality.  I'll explain more further.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post

As far as I am aware, MDC does not host abortion debates, for good reason. The last thing I want to hear on the 4th anniversary of my abortion is you calling me a murderer. cold.gif


I'm sorry you felt that way, Adaline's Mama.  I hope my actions right now are not dredging up more emotional pain for you, but I do want to address the post since it was addressed to me.  I don't think she was calling you a murderer.  I think the problem with discussing things like this is that we take personal what people say about our choices.  Never take anything anyone says personal.  Even if it's about you!  People speak of and for themselves, only.  Even when we call ourselves advocating for others, we are speaking for ourselves.  Much love!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mama Soltera View Post

Oops, I forgot to add that my point in talking about "her body" is to say that it is the right of no one but her to decide if she is willing and able to put her body through all of that. Forcing a woman to do it would be a crime, imo.


I totally agree.  In a society such as ours, where women are still considered and treated as property (of a man, of the state, whatever), this liberty we have to create our lives the way we'd like to (as much as it is possible) is an important one.  I actually think that religions that impose beliefs about what a woman's life and body are for (the family, to procreate, etc.) are passing on an abusive message.  More on that below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toposlonoshlep View Post


I don't expect people to accept anything they don't feel comfortable with. I am sorry my opinion seems extreme and that it hurts people's feelings, but it is my genuine opinion, just as pro-choice is yours. I find pro-choice beliefs to be inaccurate, hurtful, and upsetting. But I live with the legality of abortion daily. That's the beauty of opinions. They CAN'T be inaccurate.That's the beauty of America, as well. We have differences of points of view. I was offering another perspective in regards to how SOME (myself included) may consider themselves to be feminists without sharing the popular feminist abortion view. I disagree that a blastocyst and a young embryo are extremely different from a toddler. That is not what I believe spiritually. By nature, my spiritual/intellectual beliefs are right for me. They may not be for you. I wasn't trying to convert anyone to them. I was stating them to make it clear how a pro-life feminist views the topic. I respect you and your point of view and did not want to hurt anyone's feelings. I was just being honest. I didn't say what you assert in the last two sentences, so I don't feel I need to defend it. 

 

 

I am not going to debate your own beliefs with you unless you want me to.  hahaa!  I will suggest, though, that when we think of life on a more spiritual note (as I do, as well), wouldn't we agree that a spirit is NOT a body and can inhabit another body, therefore making the body non-vital to life, from a spiritual perspective when we are talking about when life begins, etc.? 

 

For instance, I know my kids hung around me before they invaded (haha!) my body.  I invited a few of them in, actually.  So, I jest by saying "invaded".  Because I know spirit exists outside of the material realm, I don't have to worry if I decide I am not willing to create the opportunity for a spirit to come into the world/material life through my body.  I can speak with spirit and ask for understanding about my feelings. 

 

I think to act like it is my responsibility to host a life I am not willing and/or ready to support represents a lack of understanding about how life works on the spiritual level.  Physical life is a privilege and an honor and a choice.  That is my spiritual belief.  As such, I am not beholden to offer anyone the opportunity to become my child.  And, spirit understands.  That is the point of free will.  One of them, anyway. 

 

To say abortion is murder is to need to explain who is at fault for miscarriages.  Both are abortions, technically.  One spontaneous, the other not so spontaneous.  It is so easy to blame a woman, but who gets blamed otherwise?  If we look through time, we can see that women used to get blamed for both.  We can see that they sometimes still are.  When we teach women that it is their sacred duty and position to bring life into the world, miscarriage can carry a LOT of weight to the spirits of the women who have them.  Hence a society full of women who never quite heal from whatever pregnancy outcome they had. 

 

It is enough that women want to have babies.  We don't need spiritual beliefs to indoctrinate a level of fear into something that is a biological happening.  Women are entitled to feel however they want about what happens in their lives.  We don't need legal systems that infringe upon their opportunities to be able to feel however they want to feel about what happens in their lives. 

 

And, that is why I am pro-choice.  Because I don't get to decide for you what spiritual and emotional path your life takes.  That is your right and I respect that.  So, I will not vote for a lack of options in your life.  Which is what pro-life legislature, which stems from pro-life beliefs, does.   It lessens the spiritual and emotional options in a woman's life.

 

Are you telling me that your spirituality supports limiting the spiritual and emotional options in people's lives?  Maybe it does.  I cannot relate or understand, if so, and that's okay with me.  I understand religions having rules for folks to adhere to.  Sometimes, we spiritually expand best within material limitations.  For a time.  But, if I look at the Big Picture, I see that God always seems to say, "You have free will."

 

Because of that, I will not be okay with telling a woman she has no free will when her egg invites in some sperm. 
 

 


Yes, yes.  I'm fabulous. loveeyes.gif  Moving on...

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Old 07-28-2011, 12:11 PM
 
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Very eloquentlly said, tutu. Thanks for sharing your POV with us.

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Old 07-28-2011, 01:37 PM
 
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Just discovered this thread! (Was browsing punkrockmomma's posts and look, and here's the ever eloquent, founding member, princesstutu!)

 

I do consider myself a radical feminist, though odds are my definition won't quite fit with yours. (Darn definitions, always interfering with communication.) I was surprised by the intense reaction to a recent post (ok, it was an angry vent, I admit! I think we get one every 4 years ; ) I made on the Working Parent board and so was excited to see this thread with the term "radical" in the title. I'm still working on the back posts but wanted to say hello and thanks for being here. Looking forward to catching up.

 

In my mind the "radical" term applies to me because I'm always pissing someone off no matter how hard I try to censor what I perceive to be areas of potential offense. (Or as the director of admissions at the business school I attended - see, I'm a raving capitalist which may not sit well with some of you already - "the problem with you is that you're too direct and aggressive" which was a laugh when you are a sometimes timid female research nerd in a 65% male class, all determined to be investment bankers.) Moderation has never been my forte, but I see its value and am working on it.

 

As for "feminist", I consider myself a radical humanist really, but I dislike the way feminist is used as an insult, so happily wear it with pride, even if the particulars don't always fit.

 

Mainly, I dislike useless boundaries and rules and want to be seen as a human being above all, plain and simple. I have worked in a virtually all male environment for the last decade. I decided if you can't beat 'em, join 'em in college. (Not men, but the powerful and rich ... who do generally happen to be men.) My career is the right intellectual fit for me, but I think rectifying the gender imbalance in my line of work would be a good thing for the world and is actually a huge reason I stay in it even when days/months/years go by when I think it's too miserable to carry on. If it was already 50/50 women here, ironically, I might be inclined to call it a day and go do something that brought me joy. (Or maybe if it was 50/50 women, I would have joy in what I do! Not sure.)

 

But despite my penchant for annoying people with my opinions, I have an overwhelming urge that everyone like me. So I'm usually either offending or apologizing - phew. Working on that too. Though in which direction, I'm not sure!

 

Anyway ... hi!


Mother of two since 2007 and 2009. Hoping third time's a charm in 2012.

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Old 07-29-2011, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi! You know, I might need to hang around more "raving capitalists" so...Welcome! LOL

 

Ah, terminology.  I almost decided to be a "womanist" instead of a "feminist" (I am definitely not a humanist...not in the technical way, but one never knows if people mean in technically b/c people like to use "humanist" to mean someone who values all humans in a kind of reference to "feminist", which is not what it means, so...lol!), but I feel that so often, we like to abandon language before the work is even complete and then we have to go through the "recreating the wheel" phase because we have to constantly help form a frame of reference for what we are now calling ourselves.

 

Which never really works b/c people tend to believe whatever they want to believe and/or whatever they're told. 

 

So, I stick with "feminist".  Are there many kinds?  Well, that's okay with me.  I think, though, that basically people can understand what I mean when I say I'm a feminist (I think females are not only not inherently inferior to males, but we are also just as important as males and deserve to be treated as such on all levels of society) and people who can't understand it I mostly think are just trying not to.  Which I'm also okay with.  I like to know where people stand from the gate so that we don't have to waste too much time in miscommunication. ;)

 

 


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Old 07-30-2011, 09:52 PM
 
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Yes, I may have an unnecessary discomfort with labels, partly due to personal experience with them gone awry. When I didn't eat meat I didn't call myself a vegetarian. I think this is the first time in my life I've referred to myself as a capitalist. It is useful to have a frame of reference but I still always feel uneasy using such terminology on myself, particularly since my beliefs are always evolving. (After an 8 year "break" I started eating meat again ...) I just want to be free to be me! ha.

 

I am most likely not using the technical term for humanist. (I looked up both humanism and feminism after making my prior post.) I was thinking of it in terms of, as Wikipedia put well: comprehensive life stance that upholds human reason, ethics, and justice, and rejects supernaturalism, pseudoscience, and superstition. This does potentially encompass feminism as well as other -isms. I certainly don't disagree with your phrasing of feminism, princesstutu, (that is, I agree that that's the appropriate definition and that it represents my beliefs) but by stating that women are equal to men I feel like I'm affirming that it is up for debate. And it just isn't, period. So I don't like to start the conversation there. Sort of like, I don't go around calling myself a "sky's-blue-ist". (Well, duh.) Or how I worry about where the line on talking about racial discrimination improves attitudes or makes them worse (by repeating bad ideas which should be sent to the grave pronto). I never use the word "tomboy" (which implies "boy" characteristics are of greater value). I never say I kept my name when I got married (because it emphasize that action as an aberration when I would like it not to be) but sometimes I like to remark that my husband chose to keep his (to catch people's attention). I dislike "women's issues" as a category (because it specializes what is a fundamental human problem that should be of concern to all involved).  And I will never tell my daughter she can "be anything she wants". (Well, duh. (But also, unfortunately, no human being can be anything s/he wants, goes the little voice in my head, so why not be more specific.))

 

And more than anything, I'm striving to live by idea that actions speak louder than words. (Which doesn't do any good on a internet forum, so I've got to find the right words.) So I don't have to worry about definitions.

 

I am the daughter of a classic 2nd wave feminist and Women's Studies was the first class I signed up for in undergrad, and I spent one semester at an all girls college. That's well over a decade ago now, so the specifics are a bit fuzzy, but ultimately I got very burned out on the victim language of everything I was tuned into on that front, as well as the disregard for statistics and good empirical data. (Hence my obsession with the rejection of "supernaturalism, pseudoscience, and superstition".) And the limited appetite for true debate and dissent (as is common in many well-meaning movements. people are people.) And though I never thought of myself as NOT a feminist, I didn't want to talk about it in that language anymore. I decided to go live life (as it happens, choosing a field and professional that was nearly devoid of women but certainly not for that reason) and see what happened. I wanted to feel powerful and free and, ironically, the time I spent wearing the official "feminist" label made me feel the opposite because the conversation felt so negative and narrow.

 

And as generic as humanism may sound, for me it is the basis of my life approach. The experience of women is of particular interest to me, obviously, but since I have a place in my heart for individuals of all stripes, sizes and aptitudes, "humanism" is a better starting point for me than putting together a laundry list of the human categories I am especially concerned about. And casting the conversation in terms of rational logic and data rather than unverified assertions is critical for me.

 

But certainly, I feel like I have a notion of what someone means when they say "feminist" and I say "right on". And having lived in an atmosphere nearly devoid of women for the last decade has given me a whole new perspective on the issues I was thinking about as a much younger woman. (to say the least! phew.) So I'm feeling ok to put the feminist label back on. But mostly I'm ready to talk to other women again about what's going on and what to do about all of this. Cuz it's been a long, lonely trek I've been on.


Mother of two since 2007 and 2009. Hoping third time's a charm in 2012.

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Old 07-31-2011, 03:46 PM
 
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Hi littlegriff. It's so nice to have your voice added here.

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Old 08-02-2011, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I agree.  It's nice to have your voice here.  And, I feel like I completely understand where you're coming from.  I think I've been on that path although I didn't stop at all the places you did.  For a while, I wanted to find a term that said what "feminist" says...plus more.  In the end, I found that I was fine with "feminist" and drew a little closer to it after dealing with folks who claim to think all humans are equal, and then something racist comes out their mouths. 

 

I've learned that the labels don't mean so much, so if I want to pick one to stand under, I'll do so simply b/c it makes life a wee bit easier, not because I necessarily expect us to see eye-to-eye on most everything.

 

I actually think it makes perfect sense for any member of a blatantly and across-board oppressed group to be a capitalist.  And, there can be many ways to look at what makes someone a capitalist.  I mean, technically, we're all capitalists. lol.gif  Like it or not.

 

I'm the daughter of Black Nationalists turned African-American.  I have bitterness on tap. wink1.gif

 

namaste.gif

 

 


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Old 08-08-2011, 10:17 AM
 
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So, kind of a random subject: Is Patricia Cornwell a total racist or what? I had never read her before, never had any interest. But one of her books came into my posession and I thought, "Why not? Let's find out why she's always on the best sellers list." I'm only 70 or so pages in and I'm pretty appalled at all the racism. I'm not talking about racist characters, I'm talking about her. I write fiction as well and I know the difference. If any of you have read her I would appreciate your feedback. I'm pretty disturbed that this is what America is buying. When are we ever going to reject the same old racist stuff and finally leave it behind? What's even more frustrating is that it's likely most if not all of her readers somehow don't even notice it.

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Old 08-08-2011, 10:27 AM
 
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Just wanted to add that I also found the book dedication to Billy Graham (sp) odd.

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