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Old 06-26-2009, 10:31 PM
 
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It looks like just what I was afraid of happened:

The other day, the girl I babysit was playing picnic with my DD. I looked up and she was showing her how to pray. My innocent little DD was sitting silently, eyes closed, hands together under her chin! "God is great, God is good..."

I was shocked but didn't say anything because I wanted to see how she'd handle it. She seemed confused, and just went along with it like her friend was reciting a nursery rhyme.

My response was to say my own "prayer" over our lunch. I lit candles and thanked the things involved with making our food: the sun and water for helping the grass grow, the grass for feeding the cows, and the cows for making the milk for our yogurt. My DD was delighted (because it makes sense!) and the other girl looked totally bewildered.
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Old 06-27-2009, 05:25 PM
 
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My response was to say my own "prayer" over our lunch. I lit candles and thanked the things involved with making our food: the sun and water for helping the grass grow, the grass for feeding the cows, and the cows for making the milk for our yogurt. My DD was delighted (because it makes sense!) and the other girl looked totally bewildered.
I love it! laughup

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Old 06-29-2009, 05:01 PM
 
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It looks like just what I was afraid of happened:

The other day, the girl I babysit was playing picnic with my DD. I looked up and she was showing her how to pray. My innocent little DD was sitting silently, eyes closed, hands together under her chin! "God is great, God is good..."

I was shocked but didn't say anything because I wanted to see how she'd handle it. She seemed confused, and just went along with it like her friend was reciting a nursery rhyme.

My response was to say my own "prayer" over our lunch. I lit candles and thanked the things involved with making our food: the sun and water for helping the grass grow, the grass for feeding the cows, and the cows for making the milk for our yogurt. My DD was delighted (because it makes sense!) and the other girl looked totally bewildered.
awesome way to handle the situation, and what a sweet prayer, actually. If only they were all that elegant in their honesty and simplicity!
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Old 06-29-2009, 10:11 PM
 
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It looks like just what I was afraid of happened:

The other day, the girl I babysit was playing picnic with my DD. I looked up and she was showing her how to pray. My innocent little DD was sitting silently, eyes closed, hands together under her chin! "God is great, God is good..."

I was shocked but didn't say anything because I wanted to see how she'd handle it. She seemed confused, and just went along with it like her friend was reciting a nursery rhyme.

My response was to say my own "prayer" over our lunch. I lit candles and thanked the things involved with making our food: the sun and water for helping the grass grow, the grass for feeding the cows, and the cows for making the milk for our yogurt. My DD was delighted (because it makes sense!) and the other girl looked totally bewildered.

What a good way to handle it. I'm not sure what I would have done...
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Old 07-09-2009, 09:18 PM
 
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"Parenting Beyond Belief: On Raising Ethical, Caring Kids Without Religion"

I showed this to DH the other day - it's on my wishlist on amazon, and to my surprise he was really offended. To him, the sub-title implies that it's difficult or surprising to be able to raise ethical, caring kids without religion. Basically, to him, the title of the book is simply pandering to and feeding into the belief that the religious of the world have (or feel they have) a monopoly on morality.

Thoughts?

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Old 07-09-2009, 09:33 PM
 
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Well what if you flipped it? What if the title read, Parenting Within Belief: On Raising Ethical, Caring Kids Through Religion instead? Would that imply that raising a child with ethics within a religion is difficult? I think not.
The book is not necessarily geared towards athiests. It is geared towards anyone that wants to raise children to think for themselves, including deists, agnostics or those that haven't given up god. Sadly to most Americans it is an assumption that one cannot have ethics and morality without religion.
This book is not a how to manual, it is a collection of essays written by people brought up athiest, people raising their children without religion, and even two by ministers. It's focus is on helping children think for themselves whether your family is religious or not. Your husbands thoughts would make more sense if this was a parenting book, but it's not. Again it is a collection of essays that center around the topic of teaching values without the crutch of religion. As an athiest parent I don't get to say "because Jesus said so". So my job may be a little harder, I have to have logical, justifiable reasons for what I do. This is a great book and I hope you don't let the title put you off.
I know there was a blog post somewhere by the author about this very topic, but I can't find it just now.
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Old 07-10-2009, 06:57 PM
 
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"Parenting Beyond Belief: On Raising Ethical, Caring Kids Without Religion"

I showed this to DH the other day - it's on my wishlist on amazon, and to my surprise he was really offended. To him, the sub-title implies that it's difficult or surprising to be able to raise ethical, caring kids without religion. Basically, to him, the title of the book is simply pandering to and feeding into the belief that the religious of the world have (or feel they have) a monopoly on morality.

Thoughts?
That's an interesting point of view.

Now when I look at the title, I do sense a bit of the same thing, that in order to raise caring, kind, ethical children, you'll need help because religion generally does the "work". I think I see that thought because of the above comments, so I can't say I would have automatically seen that and thought, "huh? That's odd".

I do think though, and I have this point of view with all books (I read a lot), specifically with parenting books- take what works, and leave the rest. Sure, the title might make you cringe, but there may actually be some amazing words of wisdom in Chapter 3 (haven't read the book, so I don't know whats in the chapter, but, you get what I mean). I try to ignore titles for the most part, because they are designed to market and sell.

I think the thing is though, it is easy to raise moral, ethical, kind children in this world. It just requires more thinking then spitting out, "Jesus said, so that's it"
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:05 AM
 
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Well the ILs are coming to town on Friday. This is going to be a very interesting weekend (see my other threads about whats going on with my life....lets say it sucks big time.)

Anyhow, we are going to tell them we are Atheist.: No more faking the blessing before dinner anymore! Woot! :

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Old 07-22-2009, 12:02 PM
 
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Good luck KatWrangler! I totally identify with the blessing issue. ILs usually ask one of the kids to do it. My 15yo usually says no thanks, but my 8yo will sometimes do it. We have done some basic 'thanking the earth' kinda stuff with them before, so that's pretty much where she goes with it. In the end though gma and gpa don't tend to notice, so we'll leave it at that.

For me, 'outing' ourselves to some of our family would really hurt and scare them. These are people who FUNDAMENTALLY believe that if you don't agree with their beliefs you will burn in a literal hellfire. It's a real fear to them, and while their way might be dogmatic and incorrect, it's still something that I'm just not on this planet to do. I broached the subject with my Aunt a few times and she was SOBBING, heartbroken that I'd even admitted to going to a UU church! Our ILs are the same way. I know these people have done a lot of harm because of their religion, but I'm at a point that I just don't think that was ever their intention, it's the result of years of programming that I was lucky enough to escape. Crashing their world down isn't going to help our relationship or anyone's happiness or stress level, so it's just not something we feel obligated to do.

At the same time we are definitely at the point that when we meet new people who ask what church we go to, we do say we're atheists. We even go to the UU church sometimes, but I'm done pretending to have religion to make a total stranger feel more comfortable!

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Old 07-23-2009, 03:25 PM
 
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Good for you for "coming out". I'm pretty open about being agnostic, but I tend to steer away from it in conversations. Most of the time, when it does come up, it leads to some good conversation. With my family, they speak of their religion all the time, but I wouldn't dare broach them with the subject of the other possibilities out there, like, they might be wrong, and there really is nothing.

I got into a bit of a debate the other night when we were at my IL's regarding what the Mormon church believes versus what they don't. I held my ground pretty well, despite my DH's grandpa thinking that the "rules" were guidelines and you didn't have to follow them. I explained that they present them as such, but generally speaking, they are rules to be followed, since guidelines don't generally lead to punishment. We got into a good discussion about interpretation, and the difference between those who follow the letter of the law and those who take it to a whole new level (fundamentalists). It applies to all religions I think. I think DH's grandpa didn't know I knew as much as I did- but he tends to think he knows everything about everything, so whatever.

Did anyone catch the Oprah yesterday about the FLDS commune in Texas? Sure was an interesting, and heartbreaking episode
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Old 07-24-2009, 12:50 AM
 
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Do you have a link for the Oprah thing teale?

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Old 08-03-2009, 02:35 PM
 
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does anybody else get forwarded religious emails from christian family/friends? I have some in-laws who send me that junk and I always just ignore it since I'm a closet non-believer around them. It's usually feel-good stories, but my bil just sent the story about the atheist professor and Einstein as a student who humiliates him. I want to reply so bad, if nothing else to just say that it is false that Einstein ever did that. Do any of you ever reply to stuff like this?
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Old 08-03-2009, 05:21 PM
 
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does anybody else get forwarded religious emails from christian family/friends? I have some in-laws who send me that junk and I always just ignore it since I'm a closet non-believer around them. It's usually feel-good stories, but my bil just sent the story about the atheist professor and Einstein as a student who humiliates him. I want to reply so bad, if nothing else to just say that it is false that Einstein ever did that. Do any of you ever reply to stuff like this?
Yes, I get tons of this crap from my 80 year old grandma. Yeah, most was feel good stuff, but so dang corny. Once it became offensive, I had no qualms saying so. I emailed her back and I told her exactly why the email was offensive (something about only Christians deserve the good things in this world and another about Christmas trees are for Christ - mas and I had to give a short synopsis about how the tree has nothing to do with Christ). She took it very well when I pointed out there are many types of people in this world and condemning a whole group of them is not a nice thing to do and not a nice message to spam the internet world with. Now I just get the nice emails from her.

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Old 08-06-2009, 04:24 PM
 
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Do you have a link for the Oprah thing teale?
Here's the link to an article on her site. It looks like there are some extensive links from the show on it.

http://www.oprah.com/article/pressro...polygamy-ranch
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Old 08-06-2009, 04:27 PM
 
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does anybody else get forwarded religious emails from christian family/friends? I have some in-laws who send me that junk and I always just ignore it since I'm a closet non-believer around them. It's usually feel-good stories, but my bil just sent the story about the atheist professor and Einstein as a student who humiliates him. I want to reply so bad, if nothing else to just say that it is false that Einstein ever did that. Do any of you ever reply to stuff like this?
I think I do, but I just ignore it. Any forwards from my mom they go in the trash. We had a debate about gay marriage one day on the phone, and I was bombarded with ridiculous emails about how wrong it is for days. I finally sent her an email and told her I didn't agree, wouldn't never agree with her point of view, and she needed to stop.

I try not to engage people like that though. I've found that most of them send them to people who don't believe to start something, whether it be to cultivate some interest, or to start a flame war.
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Old 08-11-2009, 05:20 PM
 
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Bumping up!

So ladies, it seems as though my parents have not let go of their dream of me returning to their church. My younger brother has been staying with us for the past week or so, and he's informed me that my parents are doing everything in their power to get me, my husband and my son back into the church.

To say I'm livid, doesn't even touch it. They apparently think because I discuss their religious life with them, that it means I am still attached to it. Apparently, because my best friend is serving a mission, and I write her, it means I still want to go to church in some messed up way. I'm annoyed. I'm frustrated.

This is the thing, if I don't respect their religion, and let's be serious, I don't, but I'm civil to them about it, and engage them regarding their daily routines within it, I'm going to have to be done with them. I mean, my parents are literally, and I say this with deep sadness, nothing without their church. I'm not sure they would know how to function without the church in their life, and if I take that out of our relationship- we'll have nothing.

Now, all these past angry feelings are popping up. I'm angry about the fact that they missed their grandson's 1st birthday because it was a Sunday. I'm angry that they have gone behind my back and sent missionaries to my door despite my pleadings NOT TO. I'm angry that they continue to pray for me (I know that I can't help this), but I'm just tired of being so damn respectful to them about their beliefs, despite how I feel about them, only for them to disregard MY life, and MY choices.

And even worse, it sucks knowing that your parents are NEVER going to love you fully unless you come back to their religion.

I need to get my named removed from this church, I want this to send the message home that I am finished, and will no longer tolerate any behavior like this. I'm done being nice about this. I'm done hearing them tell me I'll come back because they've had visions and dreams. I need them to know that it's NEVER going to happen.

And boy, are they in for a rough ride when they realize that they are pushing my brother away, and he wants nothing to do with the church too.
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Old 08-11-2009, 07:44 PM
 
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teale

I am so sorry for what you're going through. My grandmother is Nazarene, and to say she's been...pushy...about her faith is putting it mildly. My aunts on that side are also extremely devout Nazarene, and it took me REALLY pissing them off to get them to leave me alone. (I think the most evil thing they said was something about not seeing my babies in Heaven...until my father died and my grandmother said, "I hope he didn't die a Roman Catholic. I would like to see him in Heaven." Grrrrr.

I hope you find a way to find peace with this decision. For me, I had to do what you're contemplating...walk away and not look back at them. Of course, these are my aunts and grandmother, not my parents. This must be very hard for you.

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Old 08-15-2009, 02:29 AM
 
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Hey Mama's, I hope it's okay if I post this here. I'm not sure if it's ever been brought up before so I apologize if it has. I could really use some advise though.

My soon to be 6 yo dd has been thinking about death lately. My grandfather recently passed away and my husbands grandmother passed away a little over a year ago so I think that is why she is having these thoughts. She always asks me if I'm old, is Daddy old, is Mom-Mom and Grandaddy old and I know she asks because she's afraid we're going to die. I just tell her "No, we're still very young." and you can tell she's relieved.

Well tonight she crawled into my lap and whispered in my ear "Mommy, I'm scared to get old and die." and she had tears in her eyes. I felt so horrible for her. I just hugged her tight and said you don't need to worry about that sweetie, it's going to be a long, long time before you are old. So this brings me to the question, what would you say to your child, have you talked to them about death, what do you say?
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Old 08-16-2009, 02:33 AM
 
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The book called "Parenting Beyond Belief" touches on this really well! I remember when my dd snuggled up and said the same thing. I think it's developmental, when they really 'get it' that life isn't forever.

Anyways, we talked about what happens to everything when it dies. The body stops working and the earth uses it to make more life.

Hope that helps

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Old 08-19-2009, 08:23 PM
 
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I'd like to chat about biblical teaching in schools .... my son goes to a private christian school (all the private schools around here are christian) and while I like it that he is getting taught good values and learning about the bible, I Hate it that they are pushing their dogmatic christian views on him and brainwashing him ... for example "if you don't do X, you are going to burn in the everlasting damnation of hell." He comes home all worried about stuff and talking about how Jesus is real and lives in our hearts and minds ... I Know it is more upsetting for DP because he is atheist and I'm only agnostic and was raised in a christian home. I think DP actually told DS last year that god is make-believe, which didn't go over well with his kindergarten teacher! Just wondering if anyone is in the same boat.

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Old 08-25-2009, 11:19 PM
 
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Hi. Nice to find all of you here! My DH and I are atheist and raising our two kids without religion. We are both recovering Catholics. Will write more later...
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Old 09-13-2009, 02:57 PM
 
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bump bump!

Atheists should *always* be on the front page! lol

So how is everyone doing? I haven't posted here in awhile...my son is now 8 weeks old (tomorrow!) and my dd just started kindergarten last week (and of course she's already sick! makes me wish i would've just homeschooled after all!).

DH and I are planning on going to UU again soon - probably the 27th for the yom kippur (sp?) thing...i thought it sounded interesting.

Anyway, just saying hi and seeing what everyone is up to!
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:31 PM
 
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I'd like to chat about biblical teaching in schools .... my son goes to a private christian school (all the private schools around here are christian) and while I like it that he is getting taught good values and learning about the bible, I Hate it that they are pushing their dogmatic christian views on him and brainwashing him ... for example "if you don't do X, you are going to burn in the everlasting damnation of hell." He comes home all worried about stuff and talking about how Jesus is real and lives in our hearts and minds ... I Know it is more upsetting for DP because he is atheist and I'm only agnostic and was raised in a christian home. I think DP actually told DS last year that god is make-believe, which didn't go over well with his kindergarten teacher! Just wondering if anyone is in the same boat.
But he's at a Christian school, so what are you expecting? Of course they're going to be "pushing their dogmatic christian views on him...", it's part of the curriculum. That's what you agree to when you send your kids to a religious school. In my opinion, you have to work hard to combat those messages at home and understand that he will learn those things in school; or send him to public school. It's one of the reasons that although I believe I got a fantastic education in Catholic school, I am not going to send my kids to Catholic school.
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:59 PM
 
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I haven't posted here in quite some time. I have a son in 1st grade, one who is four and a baby girl. I haven't really gotten into explaining much to them yet. I've been feeling like I'm surrounded by super-religious people lately. My neighbors on both sides are and it seems many people as ds1s school are. It wierds me out. I'm trying to prepare to field the questions when they come. I am once again going to drive 20 minutes each way to go to take ds2to the preschool that ds1 went to. It is in a UU church, but not afiliated with it at all. Wonderful school and worth the drive. Closer to home, most people send their children to religious preschools and I did not want to do that for ds1 and won't for any of my other children.

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Old 09-13-2009, 11:05 PM
 
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I'd like to chat about biblical teaching in schools .... my son goes to a private christian school (all the private schools around here are christian) and while I like it that he is getting taught good values and learning about the bible, I Hate it that they are pushing their dogmatic christian views on him and brainwashing him ... for example "if you don't do X, you are going to burn in the everlasting damnation of hell." He comes home all worried about stuff and talking about how Jesus is real and lives in our hearts and minds ... I Know it is more upsetting for DP because he is atheist and I'm only agnostic and was raised in a christian home. I think DP actually told DS last year that god is make-believe, which didn't go over well with his kindergarten teacher! Just wondering if anyone is in the same boat.
No...sorry, that would be a deal breaker for me. There's no way I'd send my kid to a religious school. The brainwashing is way too powerful, they are way to susceptible and vulnerable. I'd suggest public school or homeschooling, is there a Montessori near you?

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Old 09-14-2009, 07:01 PM
 
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But he's at a Christian school, so what are you expecting? Of course they're going to be "pushing their dogmatic christian views on him...", it's part of the curriculum. That's what you agree to when you send your kids to a religious school. In my opinion, you have to work hard to combat those messages at home and understand that he will learn those things in school; or send him to public school. It's one of the reasons that although I believe I got a fantastic education in Catholic school, I am not going to send my kids to Catholic school.
Yeah, I agree with this. No matter how good the school is, if it's religious, there is no way any of my children will go to it.

I think back to the brainwashing I recieved once a week at my church services (I still remember songs that I learned when I was three, but I can barely remember what I learned in my favorite course in High School, let alone what I made for dinner a month ago). Knowing how much that has affected me, and it was once a week, for just under two hours- I shudder at how further the damage could have been if it had been 5 days a week for over 6 hours.
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Old 09-15-2009, 01:24 AM
 
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There is a reason why religions invest in early education and schooling. Get 'em while they are young, and all that...

You know the attributes for a great adult? Initiative, creativity, intellectual curiosity? They make for a helluva kid...
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Old 09-15-2009, 01:03 PM
 
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I'd like to chat about biblical teaching in schools .... my son goes to a private christian school (all the private schools around here are christian) and while I like it that he is getting taught good values and learning about the bible, I Hate it that they are pushing their dogmatic christian views on him and brainwashing him ... for example "if you don't do X, you are going to burn in the everlasting damnation of hell." He comes home all worried about stuff and talking about how Jesus is real and lives in our hearts and minds ... I Know it is more upsetting for DP because he is atheist and I'm only agnostic and was raised in a christian home. I think DP actually told DS last year that god is make-believe, which didn't go over well with his kindergarten teacher! Just wondering if anyone is in the same boat.
What do you expect? You are paying for your child to be indoctrinated. No way would I ever let DD go to a religious school...
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Old 09-17-2009, 04:51 PM
 
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I'd like to chat about biblical teaching in schools .... my son goes to a private christian school (all the private schools around here are christian) and while I like it that he is getting taught good values and learning about the bible, I Hate it that they are pushing their dogmatic christian views on him and brainwashing him ... for example "if you don't do X, you are going to burn in the everlasting damnation of hell." He comes home all worried about stuff and talking about how Jesus is real and lives in our hearts and minds ... I Know it is more upsetting for DP because he is atheist and I'm only agnostic and was raised in a christian home. I think DP actually told DS last year that god is make-believe, which didn't go over well with his kindergarten teacher! Just wondering if anyone is in the same boat.
Why did you choose this school? What's wrong with your public school (I know, that's a silly question)? What about homeschooling?
We are planning to homeschool. If that didn't work out for some reason, we'd consider lots of alternatives besides public school, but not a religious school.

Student Midwife : Nature Loving Mama : to Quinn : June '08 :::
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Old 09-26-2009, 10:48 PM
 
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Why did you choose this school? What's wrong with your public school (I know, that's a silly question)? What about homeschooling?
We are planning to homeschool. If that didn't work out for some reason, we'd consider lots of alternatives besides public school, but not a religious school.
There are plenty of good public schools out there.

Today my kids were having their little people pray to the flying spaghetti monster and my dd1 was talking about "mind control school." Dh and I have never used that particular phrase around her so it was pretty cool/amusing to hear her say it, knowing that it was in the context of praying and religion.
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