Non-Flaming Mommas! Tribe - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#31 of 88 Old 11-15-2007, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
 
Salihah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Minneapolis!
Posts: 1,180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaughterOfKali View Post
I think it's a good idea to strive to remember that we are dealing with real people, with real feelings.

I sometimes fall off the Nice wagon but I try not to let that happen very often.
Like my former sig said "Be kind. If you can't be kind, then be Quiet."
Beautiful. I saw a bumper sticker the other day that said,

"Open minds come with mouths that close. Closed minds come only with mouths that open."

Sort of the same idea and made me think of the quote you shared.

Remember to update your sig lines, mamas, if you want to!

Salihah סליחה صالحه Mama to four boys, another due Dec 4th.
Salihah is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#32 of 88 Old 11-15-2007, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
 
Salihah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Minneapolis!
Posts: 1,180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeanne D'Arc View Post

I am wondering what everyone thinks flaming is, specifically?

Is it being hostile? Is it arguing? Is it provoking or baiting people?

Just curious.

I was trying to define that, too. I found this quote online, I am looking for the source again...

"Flaming is hostility sans content or relevance. Flaming is inflammatory, vicious, gratuitously nasty, malicious, spiteful diatribe. Flaming is not only bullying manipulative provocation against the target, but also manipulative intimidation and aversion more widely, for the purpose of online Relational Bullying,"

To me, flaming is when one purposefully comments on another's situation or words with the conscious intent to belittle or insult them, put them down, and/or pass hostile judgement without any attempt or feeling of mercy, empathy, or compassion. To me, flaming is the opposite of merciful, empathetic, compassionate, and friendly conversation.

I also think that making statements in reply like, "you think _____ " (telling others what they think or feel) are hostility provoking and bound for argument.

What do you all think?

Salihah סליחה صالحه Mama to four boys, another due Dec 4th.
Salihah is offline  
#33 of 88 Old 11-15-2007, 01:04 PM
 
eco_mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,072
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeanne D'Arc View Post

I am wondering what everyone thinks flaming is, specifically?

Is it being hostile? Is it arguing? Is it provoking or baiting people?

Just curious.
I would say that I see it the way Wikipedia describes it here.
eco_mama is offline  
#34 of 88 Old 11-15-2007, 01:20 PM
 
Paddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Happy ;-)
Posts: 8,137
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This totally says it for me: "Flaming is hostility sans content or relevance."

Ange. Mama to boys. Yup. All Boys. All Intact. A bunch of other NFL, crunchy credentials too.
Paddington is offline  
#35 of 88 Old 11-15-2007, 02:21 PM
 
mamasgroovin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: in a faerie tale happily ever after
Posts: 24,795
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
OK. I promise not to flame.

If you can't take the heat get out of the Kitchen.
mamasgroovin is offline  
#36 of 88 Old 11-15-2007, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
Salihah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Minneapolis!
Posts: 1,180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sending a big hug to you all!



Hope your day is great!

Salihah סליחה صالحه Mama to four boys, another due Dec 4th.
Salihah is offline  
#37 of 88 Old 11-15-2007, 04:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
Salihah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Minneapolis!
Posts: 1,180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Corasmama...CONGRATULATIONS on your marriage!! I just saw your sig line!

WELCOME to all the mamas joining us!!

Salihah סליחה صالحه Mama to four boys, another due Dec 4th.
Salihah is offline  
#38 of 88 Old 11-15-2007, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
Salihah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Minneapolis!
Posts: 1,180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This discussion is really insightful, mamas, thank you so much!

I am wondering, what things can we do to prevent flaming? We've talked about "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" to voicing opinions or even healthy debate in a constructive manner rather than judgment lacking content. But do you think there are ways of posting/writing that possibly invite flamming responses more so than other ways? My idea is that maybe it isn't always the one that responds, but perhaps also the original post? I have no idea or specifics in mind, but it just came up when I was thinking, if maybe there are ways to even head off a mama giving a flaming response more so than others? What do you think?

I also want to add, I hope this thread doesn't turn into a MDC bash or a place to voice complaints about other threads, as the mod gently mentioned. As we all know flamming happens all over the www, sadly. I'm glad we're all coming together here in a positive way to work for solutions, understanding to this common internet communication plague, and to pledge our commitment to productive and positive posting online.

Salihah סליחה صالحه Mama to four boys, another due Dec 4th.
Salihah is offline  
#39 of 88 Old 11-15-2007, 05:44 PM
 
summerbabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 448
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Live4Today View Post
This discussion is really insightful, mamas, thank you so much!

I am wondering, what things can we do to prevent flaming? We've talked about "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" to voicing opinions or even healthy debate in a constructive manner rather than judgment lacking content. But do you think there are ways of posting/writing that possibly invite flamming responses more so than other ways? My idea is that maybe it isn't always the one that responds, but perhaps also the original post? I have no idea or specifics in mind, but it just came up when I was thinking, if maybe there are ways to even head off a mama giving a flaming response more so than others? What do you think?
I'm not sure about the original post question, but I do think caution should be used in using the "if you can't say anything nice..." rule. I think that could be dismissed as a stifler of discussion and any disagreement. Expressing disagreement is fine, as is lively debate, but both can be done respectfully. The dynamic that I think is so pervasive and destructive here is the underlying theme in so many posts not of "I disagree" or "here's another way to look at it," but rather "OBVIOUSLY (you idiot), you're doing it all wrong." People often point out that tone is easily misunderstood in internet discussions, and that can be true at times, but I think more often than not tone can be and is pretty clearly conveyed by the written word. And of course, blatantly judgemental and belittling language is crystal clear regardless of "tone" .
summerbabe is offline  
#40 of 88 Old 11-15-2007, 09:49 PM
 
Jeanne D'Arc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Native Californian,Washington trans
Posts: 1,976
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by summerbabe View Post
I'm not sure about the original post question, but I do think caution should be used in using the "if you can't say anything nice..." rule. I think that could be dismissed as a stifler of discussion and any disagreement. Expressing disagreement is fine, as is lively debate, but both can be done respectfully. The dynamic that I think is so pervasive and destructive here is the underlying theme in so many posts not of "I disagree" or "here's another way to look at it," but rather "OBVIOUSLY (you idiot), you're doing it all wrong." People often point out that tone is easily misunderstood in internet discussions, and that can be true at times, but I think more often than not tone can be and is pretty clearly conveyed by the written word. And of course, blatantly judgemental and belittling language is crystal clear regardless of "tone" .
I agree, we should be able to disagree just... in a civil manner.

I also think it might be a good idea if someone does flame you
after you have been as polite and diplomatic as you can the
best thing to do would probably either leave the conversation
or ignore the poster. Of course depending...if the person
genuinely thinks you are in error you can try explaining yourself
but, like I said if it becomes just some excuse to smear you then
I would leave it be.

I also think we should pledge....as Non-Flamming Mommas, to
protect those who do get flamed,who are not necessarily ourselves or
those of us in the tribe. I think we might see some turn around here
if there were several mommas who spoke out, and reprimanded flaming.

Now, the job for us is to discern the line between truly warranted
flaming ( which I, so far have rarely seen here ) and someone who
is getting attacked undeservedly. It's also important to address
TRUE concern when it is apparent, but I can usually tell
true concern from blatant castigating.
Jeanne D'Arc is offline  
#41 of 88 Old 11-15-2007, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
Salihah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Minneapolis!
Posts: 1,180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeanne D'Arc View Post


I also think we should pledge....as Non-Flamming Mommas, to
protect those who do get flamed,who are not necessarily ourselves or
those of us in the tribe.
Great perspective and idea!

Salihah סליחה صالحه Mama to four boys, another due Dec 4th.
Salihah is offline  
#42 of 88 Old 11-15-2007, 10:33 PM - Thread Starter
 
Salihah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Minneapolis!
Posts: 1,180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by summerbabe View Post
I do think caution should be used in using the "if you can't say anything nice..." rule. I think that could be dismissed as a stifler of discussion and any disagreement.
I agree! That's why I mentioned "to voicing opinions or even healthy debate in a constructive manner rather than judgment lacking content" in the same sentence. I've learned so much about myself from discussion from another's perspective, and there is a whole world of perspective out there, as unique as each of us. Like the PP have been saying, nice and respectful can be done in many contexts of discussion, even debate.

Salihah סליחה صالحه Mama to four boys, another due Dec 4th.
Salihah is offline  
#43 of 88 Old 11-16-2007, 12:06 AM
 
annettemarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the Restricted Section
Posts: 34,451
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeanne D'Arc View Post
I also think we should pledge....as Non-Flamming Mommas, to
protect those who do get flamed,who are not necessarily ourselves or
those of us in the tribe. I think we might see some turn around here
if there were several mommas who spoke out, and reprimanded flaming.

Now, the job for us is to discern the line between truly warranted
flaming ( which I, so far have rarely seen here ) and someone who
is getting attacked undeservedly. It's also important to address
TRUE concern when it is apparent, but I can usually tell
true concern from blatant castigating.
This would actually be against the User Agreement:
Quote:
Do not post to a thread to take direct issue with a member. If you feel a member has posted or behaved inappropriately in a discussion, communicate directly with the member, moderator or administrator privately and refrain from potentially defaming discussion in a thread.
and
Quote:
Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email or private message. We will make every effort to remove objectionable messages within a reasonable time frame, if we determine removal is necessary. If you feel another member is behaving in a manner that is in violation of these rules, do not take matters into your own hands. Let us try to resolve the situation. Simply alert the moderator of the forum or the Board Administrator.
Also, we're coming close to crossing the line about discussing other threads negatively and discussing the behavior of other members, even though we're not naming them. That needs to stop, please. Thanks!

Flowers, fairies, gardens, and rainbows-- Seasons of Joy: 10 weeks of crafts, handwork, painting, coloring, circle time, fairy tales, and more!
Check out the blog for family fun, homeschooling, books, simple living, and 6 fabulous children, including twin toddlers

annettemarie is offline  
#44 of 88 Old 11-16-2007, 12:47 PM
 
annettemarie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the Restricted Section
Posts: 34,451
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I was thinking about this last night and want to clarify.

You may discuss your own behavior here. You may not discuss other members' behavior, named or not. Feel free to PM me with any questions.

Flowers, fairies, gardens, and rainbows-- Seasons of Joy: 10 weeks of crafts, handwork, painting, coloring, circle time, fairy tales, and more!
Check out the blog for family fun, homeschooling, books, simple living, and 6 fabulous children, including twin toddlers

annettemarie is offline  
#45 of 88 Old 11-16-2007, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
Salihah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Minneapolis!
Posts: 1,180
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by annettemarie View Post

Also, we're coming close to crossing the line about discussing other threads negatively and discussing the behavior of other members, even though we're not naming them. That needs to stop, please. Thanks!
Thanks so much annettemarie! Could you please tell us which posts here in this thread have talked negatively about other threads or members specifically? From what I've read, we're just been discussing the issue of flamming in general as an issue unique to online communication across the www, how to understand it, and solutions to prevent or turn such conversation back to productive and beneficial discussion. I personally am interested in this as a communications major, seeing online communication as a relatively new phenonmenon with its own dynamics unique from communication as we've known it in the past. I personally have never had a flamming issue here at MDC.

I was wondering where we had mentioned specific members or threads in our discussion here? That way we can prevent doing so in the future.

Thank you for checking in with us and helping us stay on track with MDC.

Salihah סליחה صالحه Mama to four boys, another due Dec 4th.
Salihah is offline  
#46 of 88 Old 11-16-2007, 09:58 PM
 
mamasgroovin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: in a faerie tale happily ever after
Posts: 24,795
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I do not think that any infractions have occurred just yet, it is my thought that AM is saying that we cannot confront one who is flaming as a PP suggested or support someone who is being flamed, as that would be taking a direct issue with a member, YK? It kind of all goes back to the whole idea of If you can't say anything nice...

I foresee this as a problem with this tribe. While we can make all the promises and pledges we choose to be nice and considerate, we can't tell anyone else what to do. I make a pledge not to flame, but beyond that, I don't believe I nor anyone else should interfere with another's issue. Should someone need support, I can do that. But isn't unflaming really just another form of flaming?

If a poster is having an issue, perhaps she needs to bring that to the attention of a mod.

I don't mean to bring negativity here, it's just my thought that I am willing to not flame and support that movement but interfering is another issue. Perhaps just by having an anti-flaming tribe, folks will get the idea, YK? I like the idea of the non-flaming mamas insignia. The power of positive thinking.

Just some random thoughts here!

If you can't take the heat get out of the Kitchen.
mamasgroovin is offline  
#47 of 88 Old 11-17-2007, 03:24 AM
 
mom2PJS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 483
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Trying to see if I added this to my sig line. If not I promise not to flame myself, but I am feeling a bit uh challenged
mom2PJS is offline  
#48 of 88 Old 11-17-2007, 03:51 AM
 
mom2PJS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 483
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
OK that's not quite it and I'm afraid I might be breaking some taboo rule or something. I tried to follow the instructions earlier in this thread but I guess I need some help.
mom2PJS is offline  
#49 of 88 Old 11-17-2007, 11:35 AM
 
QueenOfTheMeadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: with the wildlife
Posts: 17,836
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
We can come here to discuss things that we are concerned about that may be flamable on other threads. Basically, we can support each other in a non-flaming environment (as long as the topics don't fall under a UAV). What we can't do is to talk about other threads or other posters actions or our own actions on other thread. The part about promising to come to the aid of someone being flamed is in essence crossing that line, because it is talking about our actions in other threads. Confusing I know! :

I have a question. Do people practice non-flaming IRL? I am really good with most people, but I occassionally flame my dh. I'm working on it though! Why is it so much harder to not flame people that we love and are so close to than it is to not flame posters here that we don't know IRL?

 
QueenOfTheMeadow is offline  
#50 of 88 Old 11-18-2007, 01:13 AM
 
Jeanne D'Arc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Native Californian,Washington trans
Posts: 1,976
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I do my best to not flame IRL, but sometimes i do get really pissy

The best thing to do ( and I know it can be hard for us women ) is
to apologize when we do this if it is unwarranted. Admit we were wrong
and do our best to prevent it next time. Be prepared for an awestruck
DH !

I am doing allot of glandular and hormone support so it doesn't happen
too often.

However there are times when you need to "chew" out someone. If
it's bad enough.

For example, my husband sometimes forgets to feed our daughter...
one night I came in and went to give her some crackers to snack
on and her little hands basically ripped the crackers from my hands
and shoved them into her mouth with her hands shaking horribly.

I almost cried and asked her if she was hungry and she answered
affirmative. That wasn't the first time that has happened. So yes
he got chewed out.

However if someone were to say , leave a dish on the table I don't
think that would be a warranted flame-fest.
Jeanne D'Arc is offline  
#51 of 88 Old 11-18-2007, 11:50 AM
 
QueenOfTheMeadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: with the wildlife
Posts: 17,836
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeanne D'Arc View Post

I do my best to not flame IRL, but sometimes i do get really pissy

The best thing to do ( and I know it can be hard for us women ) is
to apologize when we do this if it is unwarranted. Admit we were wrong
and do our best to prevent it next time. Be prepared for an awestruck
DH !

I am doing allot of glandular and hormone support so it doesn't happen
too often.

However there are times when you need to "chew" out someone. If
it's bad enough.

For example, my husband sometimes forgets to feed our daughter...
one night I came in and went to give her some crackers to snack
on and her little hands basically ripped the crackers from my hands
and shoved them into her mouth with her hands shaking horribly.

I almost cried and asked her if she was hungry and she answered
affirmative. That wasn't the first time that has happened. So yes
he got chewed out.

However if someone were to say , leave a dish on the table I don't
think that would be a warranted flame-fest.
Yup! Dh would definately get an earful if he did that. I have lost it on him, occassionally, when I'm just in a super cranky mood and he does something like leaving the plate on the table that I just cleaned off. Definatley not a horrible thing, just bad timing.

Then there are the times that I really have no remorse. Like when I came home and was listening to my 8,6, and 3 year old playing and I hear my 3 year old say, "I'm juggernaut, b*tch!" and run headlong into a wall. It seems that he thought it was absolutely okay to let them watch X-men 3. He's done the same thing with Ghost Busters and a few other movies. sigh. Though, to be honest, he only stopped when we sat down and had a long talk about what was and was not appropriate for the children, regardless of what he watched when he was younger. But I did feel a bit better after chewing him out!

 
QueenOfTheMeadow is offline  
#52 of 88 Old 11-18-2007, 04:01 PM
 
jamsmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: happy hills of vermont
Posts: 344
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamasgroovin View Post
But isn't unflaming really just another form of flaming?
I think you might be onto something here. I guess I didn't really get the definition of non-flaming, because my non-flaming came across as flaming.
jamsmama is offline  
#53 of 88 Old 11-18-2007, 07:53 PM
 
redsfree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: eugene, oregon
Posts: 399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Rock'n idea; I'm in!

Can we also pledge to support by sharing our experiences as oppose to telling other people what to do? Just because something works for my family doesn't mean it will always work for another family. When posting a response to a question, I try to share my own experience with the problem, and the OP can either take it or leave it. It bothers me when I see posts that are basically a To-Do list.

I think people learn (and teach) better through example (experience).

dd 10.06joy.gif
redsfree is offline  
#54 of 88 Old 11-19-2007, 09:51 AM
 
menomena's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: here, for now
Posts: 2,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
This is a great idea. I'm in.

Nessa, DD1 (5) DD2 (3) & expecting again in late February/early March!
menomena is offline  
#55 of 88 Old 11-23-2007, 10:11 PM
 
QueenOfTheMeadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: with the wildlife
Posts: 17,836
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
For those who celebrated it, I hope you had a wonderful Thanksgiving. It was great, but I'm sure glad it's over. Now the buld up to the winter holidays. I'm trying to go as stress free as possible this year. I'm doing my shopping on line, as much as I can. I'm just trying to enjoy the season without falling into the impending doom feeling I get when I get overwhelmed at this time of year.

I think the the stress of the season often rears it's head on MDC too. So it is something to be aware of.

 
QueenOfTheMeadow is offline  
#56 of 88 Old 11-25-2007, 09:11 PM
 
gingerstar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Room of Requirement
Posts: 1,531
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm in! Now to try to fit it in my siggie.....

~*The days are long, but the years are short.*~
gingerstar is offline  
#57 of 88 Old 12-03-2007, 06:29 PM
 
melissakc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Off the mat
Posts: 1,205
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What a wonderful idea. Count me in!
melissakc is offline  
#58 of 88 Old 12-06-2007, 02:27 PM
 
Peacemamalove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Essex Junction,Vermont
Posts: 3,721
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I would LOVE to join too!!! Awesome idea!!

namaste.gif Practicing medicine Mama to four beautiful children 
Peacemamalove is offline  
#59 of 88 Old 12-10-2007, 03:32 AM
 
jsmith2279's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 808
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I want to join as well! You don't need to be nasty to speak a differing viewpoint!
jsmith2279 is offline  
#60 of 88 Old 12-13-2007, 03:34 PM
 
ilikethedesert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: CT
Posts: 1,048
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I agree with lots of what has been said above and love the pp about offering your experiences. Others don't need to necessarily agree, but stating something that happened to you is a nice way to say what you need to without hurting someones feelings.

So many mamas, (and pops) open their hearts on these boards and talk about things they may not be able to in person. I think it is important to feel safe here and know no one is going to say something hurtful.

Great thread!:

Mom to three and owner of Earthetarian Happy, healthy and handmade.
ilikethedesert is offline  
Reply

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off