Is there a tribe for people who tend to alienate others? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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#61 of 144 Old 10-21-2008, 08:39 PM
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I belong here It's also hit-or-miss with family because when I do things differently, it's sometimes seen as an attack on their methods. But you know, to each their own.
Me, too.

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#62 of 144 Old 10-22-2008, 10:56 AM
 
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Sounds like you need to spend as little time in contact with her as possible.
We have so much history and some interesting ties: she was in my wedding and I was in hers; she is my son's godmother; her brother-in-law dated my now-deceased sister; and her mother and my other sister have bonded through AA. Even if I wanted to just cut her off, my sister and her mother remain good friends, and my son does realize that she is his godmother, even though that role isn't all that meaningful.

A few years ago, I tried to work through some of my issues with her, and the only result was a lot of hurt feelings. We have quit trying to recapture the friendship we once had and have settled for being cordial to one another.

I guess the good news is that she lives a thousand miles away, so I don't have to see her very often.
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#63 of 144 Old 10-28-2008, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Verity - that's good. Sometimes it's best to let things fade into the background.

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#64 of 144 Old 10-28-2008, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Arrgghhh. I know it's just me. I think I just can't maintain proper friendships.

I seem to overstep things quite a bit. Not even in a bad way, but enough where I think people are getting tired of me. Sigh.

Things were better when I had no friends. I mean, yes, I was lonely, but I didn't have to have people misunderstand me or my kids.

Mama of 3 girls: 7.5 , 6 , and 4.5
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#65 of 144 Old 10-31-2008, 04:37 PM
 
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OK - This is too weird! I was just thinking, the other day, "what's wrong with me?" I do have a couple of close friends, but I often feel like the only reason these people like me is because I'm an easy doormat! Also, my own sister likes to make it her recreation to talk about me behind my back - with my own parents! Stuff about how I don't have a "job" - I have six kids and my husband works - how I'm elitist because I don't drink (I do drink once in a while, frankly I just don't like it a lot) and lots of other things. In fact, my sister once dissed me on the phone to my parents in front of my 15 year old daughter! She was so upset about it!

Anyway...I know I'm a bit of a "weirdo" - at least to them - I'm pretty crunchy, I like to stay home with my kids and I could give a frack about how much money I have. I prefer intellectual pursuits to beer-related ones. I like to read and I like to help people, which seems to make me a bit of a pariah. But if my own family feels that I'm a freak, I don't know how I could even have close friends.

I truly feel unlikeable - except by my kids and hubby! Thank God for them, though... Am I lonely? No, not really...but I do feel like I did in high school - everyone with their little group and me on the sidelines...

Anyway...I like this tribe...can I join?

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#66 of 144 Old 11-01-2008, 04:24 AM
 
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You can join. We can be our own little group.

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#67 of 144 Old 11-02-2008, 02:25 PM
 
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I don't suffer fools at all, and I also genuinely don't care about the opinions of other people when it comes to me or my choices, so I am truly a pariah!

Plus I'm a researcher by trade, so if someone says ANYTHING to me that they can't back up, I call them on it... Unless we're having a friendly discussion about opinions.

I didn't mutilate my son's genitals, I cloth diaper and I married my mentor who is twice my age. I really tick a lot of people off by my life choices.
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#68 of 144 Old 11-02-2008, 02:48 PM
 
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Plus I'm a researcher by trade, so if someone says ANYTHING to me that they can't back up, I call them on it... Unless we're having a friendly discussion about opinions.
That is my problem. In an online argument, if you don't post a link to back up your assertion, it is bad form, imo. In any other forum I've ever been part of you would be run out of the place if you didn't back up your arguments. I don't think of it as rude to insist on this because it's been drilled into me that it's rude not to provide the link. Apparently, most people here are the opposite and think you should have to ask for a link, which throws me off completely.

If we're talking about a product, or have you heard of this? and someone says yeah, I read about this but I don't recall where I saw it, that's not such a big deal, but if you're making an argument, especially against someone else who did provide a link, I just cannot get past feeling like you should provide a link of your own.

Then there's the whole urban myth thing. When people repeat urban myths as fact I have a tendency to just link snopes, which I suppose could be construed as rude. But no matter how I say things it seems like most of what I say gets misconstrued by someone anyway, no matter what the subject or context.

Sometimes I feel like I could use an entire page of smileys and someone would still find a way to assume I meant something entirely different from what I did anyway, yk?

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#69 of 144 Old 11-04-2008, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Yeah, I get that. I'm always backing up things with links. If I don't know, I say so. It doesn't necessarily bother me when others don't, but if I'm interested in something, I do ask if they know where they have found that.

The urban myth propagated via email is a pita though. I've gotten to the point that I just ignore those emails. Particularly if they have been forwarded. If I have a piece of info I want to pass along to others, I don't use forwards, I actually compose a short email about it, why I think it's important, and provide at least two links to reputable sources.

It doesn't always matter, most things I find important to pass on fall on deaf ears anyway. Like lead in toys, breastfeeding topics, etc. Some people just don't want to deal with anything that complicates their already busy lifestyles.

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#70 of 144 Old 11-04-2008, 03:28 PM
 
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Yeah, they'll take the time to pass on misinformation, but they're too busy to tell you where they got it. I'm always the irritating one who insists on knowing where it came from.

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#71 of 144 Old 11-10-2008, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Sigh...

I managed to alienate my daughter's teacher the other day at a PT conference.

In my insistence on following the rules and doing what's right, not what's comfortable or easy, I called my daughter's special needs teacher on being in non-compliance with the IEP she has.

Somehow, I got the teacher to feel insulted, to assume I was getting defensive (I was not, I was proving my points and being incredibly persistent about them), to tell me I was "potentially damage my working relationship" with her, to tell me to "lighten up" about my daughter because she's picking up on MY anxiety, all during a 15 minute parent-teacher conference.

Man, I wish I really was as unemotional and unequivocably right (in my own mind anyway) as Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory. I wouldn't have spent a full 10 minutes of the p-t conference with a flaming red face, a sick feeling in my stomach, and no words to describe how I attacked I felt.

What the heck is wrong with people?

And yes, you can bet teacher got a letter today expecting two weeks to clarify herself in writing and to fix what's wrong.

Mama of 3 girls: 7.5 , 6 , and 4.5
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#72 of 144 Old 11-13-2008, 06:23 PM
 
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Many times I am accused of being argumentative because I ask "why, how, or what information do you have to back that up?" kind of statements. I am a critical thinker and a skeptic.
Yes, I contine to be confused and perplexed about this response to me. People constantly accuse me of arguing with them when I am really seeking information. My tone of voice and body language seems to have very little to do with it.

Just yesterday I got into a discussion with someone at work about work related issues. I thought we were enjoying an exchange of ideas and information, but I later learned that she took it as an argument. At one point I was trying to make sure I understood correctly and I said, "Do you mean..." and asked a clarifying question. She blew up at me and said, "F**k! I am so not going to argue about this with you!" I think she interpreted "do you mean" in the threatening/argumentative way that statement could be made. But I am not sure how she got that impression, because I am pretty sure it was not consistent with my tone of voice. I thought it was very clear in my tone that it was a clarifying question.

I later went and apologized to her about how the conversation had gone, and told her that I am just interested in how things work and that I was enjoying the exchange of ideas. She couldn't bring herself to reciprocate my apology and only said that she hoped future conversations were productive.

Actually, that whole incident, which had other problematic elements, is what led me here. I couldn't stop crying all yesterday afternoon because this gal in the office here was yelling at me and being extremely critical of my views (but not able to articulate her exact problem with my views in any way that made sense to me when I broke it down). So I posted on my blog about it: http://becausethatiswhatmylifeislike...expansive.html and then over at the Special Needs forum because I know I have some neurological special needs that may have played into all this. Over on the SN forum, I was referred to this tribe.

I have noticed my problems worsening since moving to New England a little over a year ago. My personal style does not seem to be the best match for my geography. Actually, I called one colleague who works in my same city yesterday because I was so distraught over what happened. She told me, "Well, you do think differently than most people." I was relieved last night when I-- still distressed-- called my friend and colleague from back in the state on the west coast where I previously lived. I told her that what our mutual colleague had said, and my friend was like, "you do?"

I don't know if that is because my friend is my friend because we think alike, or because we both think like west coast folks, but I felt a little better after that. I mean, I know I had the same difficulties back west, but nowhere near the extent of my problems now in the northeast.

Other things about me that apparently alienate people, beside my desire to learn and find out how things work and where exactly people are coming from:
  • When I am really interested, engaged, and animated, people think I am being passiontely argumentative.
  • If I am willing to engage with an idea for the duration of a conversation from a fairly singular viewpoint in order to give me a particular homebase with which to critically and skeptically evaluate an opposing idea, people assume that I am passionately, fervently, and genuinely attached to that viewpoint. And it doesn't matter if I give the disclaimer that I am engaging with the viewpoint for the advantage of a place at which to contrast another viewpoint in order to look critically at it. So few people apparently engage in this type of thinking, that it is the rare gem who can accept me at my word.
  • I am not a know-at-all, and I try not to act like one. Actually, I tend to be very humble. However, people frequently seem to mistake me being opinionated for being a know-it-all. The two seem distinctly different to me, and I am easily convinced that my opinion is wrong when it is, if I am presented with information that indicates I am wrong. I do not claim to have all the information I need before forming an initial opinion.
  • Apparently people are turned off by my neutral or thinking faces. I am told regularly that I have an angry, uspet, frustrated face when I am in fact just deep in thought or just sitting neutrally with little emotion at all. This is actually one of those things that I find most hurtful.
  • I am direct, and bottom-line in my style of communication. I am completely confused by the emotional undertones that people seem to assign to much communication. I am blown away by the way people read emotional information in factual statements I make.
  • That said, I am an emotional and sensitive person. I have obsessive anxiety about almost every single relational exchange I have with people. My conversation yesterday with the gal from my work probably blew over for her in a couple of hours, for me, I am still tearful about it today. This itself doesn't really alienate people, but I do think it makes me too fearful about seeking relationships.
  • I too am highly empathetic, and I am particularly defensive about underdogs or vulnerable people (or animals).
  • I care deeply for people but tend to somehow be very transient in my relationships. I seem to float in and out of engagement with people. Just because I haven't called someone I love for more than a year doesn't mean I love them any less. For me, even though I am an extrovert and seek social relationships, I have trouble with committed behavior in my friendships.
  • I am very forgetful. Many times people have to remind me of conversations we've had, things we've done together, or information they have shared with me. For me, it isn't a reflection of importance. I have a problem in my brain where I just can't access stored information easily.
  • I'm highly intellectual. I don't think of myself as particularly smart, but I am wired to think non-stop and to always be seeking to learn. My leisurely activities include research, political engagement, reading (often non-fiction), writing (often non-fiction), and educational events such as parenting workshops. I have little energy or patience for most of the "relaxing pastimes" of my peers.
  • I am not interested in the least in drugs or alcohol, and I tend to be pretty anti-smoking. After my son developed severe asthma and we constantly had to worry for his respiratory health, I apparently alienated friends of dw by feeling that the loving choice was for them to take every precaution not to expose my son to second hand smoke.
  • I am a verbose person. This turns some off. On the other hand, sometimes words fail me when I need them most. Especially in emotional situations. This turns others off.
  • I have difficulty processing spatial information. And also keeping track of time. Believe it or not, my ability to get lost even in situations when I should know exactly where I am going, and my trouble with keeping track of time have both impacted my relationships.
  • People sometimes think I am critical because I look at things critically.
  • Despite being extroverted, I can be very shy. This doesn't alienate friends, but it does make it hard to meet friends in the first place. It also makes people read various emotional states into my silence at say, a party when I don't know many folks or am just starting to get to know people.
  • I have trouble modulating the volume of my voice in day to day conversation. I am often told I am yelling, especially when I am engaged and animated in conversation. Other times, people complain I am mumbling or speaking too softly.
  • I am the last to grow tired of many debates/conversations. I sometimes stick on a subject for too long, and when other start to think it is running round in circles, sometimes I am seeing finer and finer nuances emerge or am just coming to understand another viewpoint with greater and greater clarity. I also have been accused of being repetative when I talk because I tend to see important but subtle nuances in language as if they have been highlighted mid-air.
  • I can be perseverative in a narrow range of interests.
  • I have difficulty with sustained eye contact.
  • I usually differentiate more than others between challenging someone's ideas, even deeply held beliefs, and challenging or attacking someone's person. I don't mind debate in the least...its an activity I've enjoyed since childhood. And I don't have to even have an attachment to the topic.
  • In the last couple of years I have become totally pop culturally illiterate.

The list probably could go on.

I relate to the humor thing to a certain extent, but it seems I differ here from many of you. My eldest sister has an extremely sarcastic sense of humor, and uses sarcasm liberally throughout the day. Though I can appreciate small doses of sarcasm, I find it very wearing and difficult in larger doses, and I actually avoid spending much more than an hour or two with my sister because of this. It's not that I don't *get* sarcasm, it is just there is a point for me where it becomes rude or passive-aggressive. That said, however, I have a very dry, dead-pan sense of humor that many folks don't relate to here in the states.

Miss Information, I can totally imagine myself in the exact same type of PT conference. I've certainly been there in IEP meetings. And I too wish I could just be confident like Sheldon, rather than getting red-faced and emotional, and coming home only to get sick.

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#73 of 144 Old 11-13-2008, 11:44 PM
 
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Just yesterday I got into a discussion with someone at work about work related issues. I thought we were enjoying an exchange of ideas and information, but I later learned that she took it as an argument. At one point I was trying to make sure I understood correctly and I said, "Do you mean..." and asked a clarifying question. She blew up at me and said, "F**k! I am so not going to argue about this with you!" I think she interpreted "do you mean" in the threatening/argumentative way that statement could be made.
I'm sorry the conversation left you feeling so upset, and I can relate to that as well. I really, seriously, wholeheartedly dislike the thought of people feeling that way toward me, or of misinterpreting me in such a negative way. I too can get really hung up on that (not sure if you read it, but we discussed that same issue earlier in the thread). It seems many of us here are frequently accused of being argumentative when we are not attempting to be and actually have genuine motives. I think you handled it well, and did what I would do which would be to go back to the person and chat with them about it. There is not much you can do beyond that.

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[*]If I am willing to engage with an idea for the duration of a conversation from a fairly singular viewpoint in order to give me a particular homebase with which to critically and skeptically evaluate an opposing idea, people assume that I am passionately, fervently, and genuinely attached to that viewpoint. And it doesn't matter if I give the disclaimer that I am engaging with the viewpoint for the advantage of a place at which to contrast another viewpoint in order to look critically at it. So few people apparently engage in this type of thinking, that it is the rare gem who can accept me at my word.
I had a negative encounter with a mom last week at a small parent coffee for my DD's preschool class. The teacher was talking about options for Kindergarten and when to start (should a child start at the appropriate age or wait another year). One mom who I didn't know pipped up and made some blanket statements about how kids are all held back so they can be better at sports. There were 3 mom's in the room (of about 10 people) who I knew who had intentionally waited a year for K for completely different reasons. As I've said before, I do not deal well with absolutes or exclusionary verbiage and I started rattling off some statistics on the benefits of waiting a year and listing many other reasons why some people would make that choice. The mom reacted very defensively to what I said even though I made no judgment call on the issue. I believe the mom assumed that I held my child back and took offense to her comments for that reason, while the opposite is true; we looked at grade skipping for our DD1 if she were to go to a certain school.

I am unable to make a personal judgment on any issue without looking at thoroughly from all sides. I will frequently do as you described, and I am sure many people out there might think that I hold views completely contrary to the ones I actually hold. Too bad we all don't live in the same city, those would be some wonderful conversations held over tea and coffee....

As far as sarcasm... I would probably prefer the word facetious to describe myself just because of the interpretation that sarcasm can = passive aggressive. I abhor passive aggressive communication. FWIW much of how you describe yourself I could have written, much of it.

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#74 of 144 Old 11-14-2008, 09:05 PM
 
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Hi Sierra
I couldn't help but totally relate to almost everything in your post. Reading it, I felt like someone was describing me! except for a few small differences.
It sounds like you *really* know yourself well- and while pointing this out may sound silly, I don't think most people do know themselves that well...honestly. It's a great thing to know your strengths and weaknesses and also to understand how most people perceive you. I think the world would be a MUCH better place if people explored themselves and knew themselves to the extent that you do and if they tried to understand how and why others relate to them in certain ways. So kudos to you
I'm a lot like you in that I really try to understand myself and my relations with others- perhaps it comes with the territory of being very critical/analytical and slightly obsessive! After a long while spent figuring out myself, I've finally realised that the next step is ACCEPTING myself and finding others that accept me and appreciate my qualities. Whenever I see that someone doesn't quite "get" me, I just shrug it off now. I can't get along with everyone and that makes the people that do "get" me, the ones I do get along with, all the more special and interesting...
You sound like a great and interesting person!

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#75 of 144 Old 11-15-2008, 04:49 PM
 
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Thanks! I don't have much time but wanted to let you know I've read and really appreciated your posts.

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#76 of 144 Old 11-26-2008, 03:49 AM
 
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Can I join too?

I have never had much luck with friends. I have been enjoying reading through all of your posts, and can relate to a lot of what you say.

I tend to make friends easily, its keeping them that causes the problem. Like a lot of you I just simply rub people the wrong way. I insist on being informed about the choices I make for myself and my family. I try hard not to come across as a know-it-all. But seem to fall short every time.

I get excited and stimulated when having a good debate!! I don't care if people don't agree with me, what a boring world it would be if we all agreed with each other? But it drives me mental when someone hasn't even thought about the choices they make and so I ask questions in an attempt to better understand where they are coming from. This always comes across like I'm questioning the persons motive, rather than reasoning.

I have an extremely expressive face and find it very hard to control my expressions.... especially when I dont agree with what someone is saying. I also get on much better with men than women, which makes most women suspicious of me.

I am also someone who enjoys quiet time. I need time away from people to recharge my batteries. People seem to think that I don't WANT to talk with them. The best friends I have not only live in a different country, but we go for months without talking and then just pick right back up where we left off.

I thought that after having a baby I would get to meet some other Mum friends and at least we would have children in common........ hmmmmmmm, the best laid plans and all that. I have taken a different route to every other mother I know - babywearing, extended BF, APing etc - and they all seem to take my doing something different as a negative commentary on their choices. OK, so I am a serious advocate for all of the parenting choices that I have made, but I dont begrudge someone else their right to choose what is right for their family.
DS is also proving to be pretty bright, which is just an extra reason for these Mums not to want to talk to me. Its hard not to come across like you are bragging when they are talking about what their LO are up to and yours is obviously ahead.

Well, that is a little bit about me. You all seem lovely. Hopefully will get to know you all better!
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#77 of 144 Old 11-26-2008, 10:50 PM
 
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Can I join too?
I don't see why not. Welcome to MDC by the way!

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#78 of 144 Old 11-27-2008, 01:26 AM
 
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Well shoot, if I had known I was in such good company I would have stopped whining about how I seem to have a great talent for putting my foot in my mouth and come here to join you all sooner! I can relate SO much to so many of the things in this thread, it makes my head spin a bit to realize it really is not "just me". I have to go put my pies in the 'fridge to set for tomorrow, but take this as fair warning that I will be back to try to alienate everyone :

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#79 of 144 Old 11-27-2008, 02:34 AM
 
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I don't see why not. Welcome to MDC by the way!
Yay! Oh and thanks. I have been a lurky lurker for awhile and couldnt resist when I saw this thread.

Ok, probably a stupid question (I'm good at those ) how do you get your signature things working? When I try it says I am only allowed one icon?
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#80 of 144 Old 11-27-2008, 02:43 AM
 
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Can I join too?

I have never had much luck with friends. I have been enjoying reading through all of your posts, and can relate to a lot of what you say.

I tend to make friends easily, its keeping them that causes the problem. Like a lot of you I just simply rub people the wrong way. I insist on being informed about the choices I make for myself and my family. I try hard not to come across as a know-it-all. But seem to fall short every time.

I get excited and stimulated when having a good debate!! I don't care if people don't agree with me, what a boring world it would be if we all agreed with each other? But it drives me mental when someone hasn't even thought about the choices they make and so I ask questions in an attempt to better understand where they are coming from. This always comes across like I'm questioning the persons motive, rather than reasoning.

I have an extremely expressive face and find it very hard to control my expressions.... especially when I dont agree with what someone is saying. I also get on much better with men than women, which makes most women suspicious of me.

I am also someone who enjoys quiet time. I need time away from people to recharge my batteries. People seem to think that I don't WANT to talk with them. The best friends I have not only live in a different country, but we go for months without talking and then just pick right back up where we left off.

I thought that after having a baby I would get to meet some other Mum friends and at least we would have children in common........ hmmmmmmm, the best laid plans and all that. I have taken a different route to every other mother I know - babywearing, extended BF, APing etc - and they all seem to take my doing something different as a negative commentary on their choices. OK, so I am a serious advocate for all of the parenting choices that I have made, but I dont begrudge someone else their right to choose what is right for their family.
DS is also proving to be pretty bright, which is just an extra reason for these Mums not to want to talk to me. Its hard not to come across like you are bragging when they are talking about what their LO are up to and yours is obviously ahead.

Well, that is a little bit about me. You all seem lovely. Hopefully will get to know you all better!
I can so relate to everything you said. I just made a new friend who sent me an email and apologized for bending my ear all night long at a school function, telling me she sometimes rubs people the wrong way, and I was like no, you're one of us.

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#81 of 144 Old 01-22-2009, 11:52 AM
 
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I'm a bit late to the party, but I promise that I fit in.

I have mellowed a lot as I have grown up but I still have a hard time with people. Part of what is hardest for me is that I often make terrible first impressions. People think I am overly aggressive, hostile, rude, abrasive, etc. Once they get to know me a little better I hear, "I used to think you were just rude, now I really appreciate that you are so honest and up front." I used to make friends really easily but at this point I think that most of those people were "friends" in the myspace/livejournal sort of sense: they aren't your friends they are people you know. Once upon a time I was considered one of the biggest nexxus points for the bay area freak communities. When I got married and went monogamous my popularity evaporated. I guess I know why I was popular.

I'm not even sure that people stopped liking me. I think it is more that the party-crowds value group interactions over individual interactions and I'm not interested in partying anymore.

I alienate my family in a big way though. My family is uneducated, reactionary, and they tend to think that laws don't apply to them. I'm lawful good. (And a complete freakin nerd.) When my family is engaging in behavior that is harmful to minors I report them and then have to deal with fallout for years. And then there is the fact that most of my extended family won't acknowledge that I am alive because I reported my father for molesting me. I should have "kept my mouth shut."

So yeah. I've also got the issue that I don't suffer fools. Boy does this blow up regularly.

I have more I want to say but my teething kid who is nursing right now is sucking my brains out of my head with the milk. (I think the occasional bites distract me and keep the train of thought from being consistent.) And I wanted to respond to a bunch of posts individually but it took me two days to read the thread so I have forgotten what. *sigh*

My advice may not be appropriate for you. That's ok. You are just fine how you are and I am the right kind of me.

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#82 of 144 Old 01-24-2009, 05:19 AM
 
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I hope I don't get banned for asking the question, but how come so many posts are deleted? I post here so infrequently 'cause I don't want to respond to something I care about and have it yanked if it disagrees with the MDC rules in some way...

I've been alienating my very religious associates over issues of this election. When I was in high school, I was mildy acquainted with a girl (we were in detention together all the time, we fought once and we spoke but weren't "friends"). She told a few of us one afternoon that she was pregnant with her father's baby. She wound up miscarrying after just 3 months. That really shaped my views about women and their rights and their bodies, and how girls shouldn't ever have to make those decisions.

Anyone who's not intelligent enough to do more than quote slogans and talking points is really gonna be put off by me.

And I seem to be waist deep in those types!
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#83 of 144 Old 01-24-2009, 01:27 PM
 
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I hope I don't get banned for asking the question, but how come so many posts are deleted? I post here so infrequently 'cause I don't want to respond to something I care about and have it yanked if it disagrees with the MDC rules in some way...
If you have specific questions, your best bet would be to PM a moderator or administrator rather than discuss it here on the thread. From the User Agreement:
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Do not post to debate or challenge the MDC User Agreement, the moderators, administrators, or their actions. Constructive criticism and questions for purposes of clarification are best addressed directly to the moderator or administrator by private message or personal e-mail. If this is not successful, see Recourse.
Obviously, to respect members' privacy, we're not going to discuss individual User Agreement violations with you unless they were your User Agreement violations.

Just stick to the UA and you should be fine.

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#84 of 144 Old 02-01-2009, 12:40 AM
 
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Man I need this tribe more than usual lately. Anyone else noticing Mercury's retrograde? I feel like I'm arguing way more than usual and I don't like it.

My advice may not be appropriate for you. That's ok. You are just fine how you are and I am the right kind of me.

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#85 of 144 Old 02-01-2009, 02:28 AM
 
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Man I need this tribe more than usual lately. Anyone else noticing Mercury's retrograde? I feel like I'm arguing way more than usual and I don't like it.
Oh, man....I always get into arguments during Mercury Retrogrades! And I usually find out it's a retrograde after I've resigned from a chat group in a huff and gotten my feelings hurt by someone else, and said something that came out wrong to someone else.....I really should pay more attention to when they're coming up and just hide.

I just posted in TAO, it may not be showing up yet, but my router tried to catch fire yesterday morning and I was without the internet until this afternoon. Is that the ultimate Mercury Retrograde communication snafu, or what? :

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#86 of 144 Old 02-01-2009, 02:00 PM
 
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I can relate so much to what people in this tribe are experiencing! I don't have time to post now, but I hope to commiserate on this thread a bit later ....
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#87 of 144 Old 02-01-2009, 02:31 PM
 
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so can someone sum up the last 4 pages of this thread.

i think my boyfriend is one of you and I'd like to learn about it so I can cope with it because up to right now I've basically just been alienating him right back until we're both alienating each other.
I try to catch myself before I do it but sometimes its just hard to not feel like we're drifting so far apart.

Does any of this make sense?
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#88 of 144 Old 02-01-2009, 07:10 PM
 
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Wow, see, this is me to a T. I'm so glad to know I'm not alone!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierra View Post
  • When I am really interested, engaged, and animated, people think I am being passiontely argumentative.
  • If I am willing to engage with an idea for the duration of a conversation from a fairly singular viewpoint in order to give me a particular homebase with which to critically and skeptically evaluate an opposing idea, people assume that I am passionately, fervently, and genuinely attached to that viewpoint. And it doesn't matter if I give the disclaimer that I am engaging with the viewpoint for the advantage of a place at which to contrast another viewpoint in order to look critically at it. So few people apparently engage in this type of thinking, that it is the rare gem who can accept me at my word.
  • I am not a know-at-all, and I try not to act like one. Actually, I tend to be very humble. However, people frequently seem to mistake me being opinionated for being a know-it-all. The two seem distinctly different to me, and I am easily convinced that my opinion is wrong when it is, if I am presented with information that indicates I am wrong. I do not claim to have all the information I need before forming an initial opinion.
  • Apparently people are turned off by my neutral or thinking faces. I am told regularly that I have an angry, uspet, frustrated face when I am in fact just deep in thought or just sitting neutrally with little emotion at all. This is actually one of those things that I find most hurtful.
  • I am direct, and bottom-line in my style of communication. I am completely confused by the emotional undertones that people seem to assign to much communication. I am blown away by the way people read emotional information in factual statements I make.
  • That said, I am an emotional and sensitive person. I have obsessive anxiety about almost every single relational exchange I have with people. My conversation yesterday with the gal from my work probably blew over for her in a couple of hours, for me, I am still tearful about it today. This itself doesn't really alienate people, but I do think it makes me too fearful about seeking relationships.
  • I too am highly empathetic, and I am particularly defensive about underdogs or vulnerable people (or animals).
  • I care deeply for people but tend to somehow be very transient in my relationships. I seem to float in and out of engagement with people. Just because I haven't called someone I love for more than a year doesn't mean I love them any less. For me, even though I am an extrovert and seek social relationships, I have trouble with committed behavior in my friendships.
  • I am very forgetful. Many times people have to remind me of conversations we've had, things we've done together, or information they have shared with me. For me, it isn't a reflection of importance. I have a problem in my brain where I just can't access stored information easily.
  • I'm highly intellectual. I don't think of myself as particularly smart, but I am wired to think non-stop and to always be seeking to learn. My leisurely activities include research, political engagement, reading (often non-fiction), writing (often non-fiction), and educational events such as parenting workshops. I have little energy or patience for most of the "relaxing pastimes" of my peers.
  • I am a verbose person. This turns some off. On the other hand, sometimes words fail me when I need them most. Especially in emotional situations. This turns others off.
  • People sometimes think I am critical because I look at things critically.
  • I am the last to grow tired of many debates/conversations. I sometimes stick on a subject for too long, and when other start to think it is running round in circles, sometimes I am seeing finer and finer nuances emerge or am just coming to understand another viewpoint with greater and greater clarity. I also have been accused of being repetitive when I talk because I tend to see important but subtle nuances in language as if they have been highlighted mid-air.
  • I usually differentiate more than others between challenging someone's ideas, even deeply held beliefs, and challenging or attacking someone's person. I don't mind debate in the least...its an activity I've enjoyed since childhood. And I don't have to even have an attachment to the topic.
  • In the last couple of years I have become totally pop culturally illiterate.
.
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#89 of 144 Old 02-02-2009, 05:24 PM
 
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so can someone sum up the last 4 pages of this thread.

i think my boyfriend is one of you and I'd like to learn about it so I can cope with it because up to right now I've basically just been alienating him right back until we're both alienating each other.
I try to catch myself before I do it but sometimes its just hard to not feel like we're drifting so far apart.

Does any of this make sense?
Well, we could but you would get more out of it by reading the whole thread. It isn't that long.

The short version: man do we have trouble communicating sometimes. UGH!

My advice may not be appropriate for you. That's ok. You are just fine how you are and I am the right kind of me.

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#90 of 144 Old 02-03-2009, 04:56 AM
 
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Can I join? I swear, I feel like I could write a book on How to Alienate Others. :/. Especially females! LOL.
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