NC Certified Professional Midwife (CPM) ARRESTED!! - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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Old 02-27-2011, 06:25 AM
 
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Chrissy, these facts are all over. You just have to find them.

 

 

 

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Perhaps it was a baby who would have died no matter where he or she was born, due to either birth defect(s) or accident of birth that would have happened anywhere.

 

Why do people ALWAYS say this??


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Old 02-27-2011, 02:34 PM
 
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All over?  Really, like where?  Show me a credible account.  Just because you read it on the internet, on somebody's blog, doesn't mean it's true.  People make a lot of things up.

 

I don't know why people always say that.  The reason I said it is because it isn't fair to assume that the midwife was liable for a death, when in fact there could be other circumstances.  I'm not about to assume that it was the midwife's fault.  That doesn't mean that I don't still grieve for the family whose baby has died, not AT ALL.  One thing has nothing to do with the other.  No matter why or how a baby dies it is ALWAYS a tragedy.  There are certainly no circumstances in which a baby's death would not be tragic.  I hope I didn't imply that because I never ever meant to.  I just mean that sometimes babies do die no matter where they are born, and I don't know whether or not that is the case here.  Blaming a midwife without knowing the facts doesn't help anybody. 

 


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Old 02-27-2011, 02:56 PM
 
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I have to concur with Chrissy, mamato5, I really do not think you nessesarily have a good idea of what is going on. 

 

In my experience of being a part of the local and national birth scene for 15 years there is always a lot of speculation but often you will never know unless you are a part of a peer review process where you have access to all charts (homebirth and hospital), and have heard all sides, parents and midwives.   

 

Certainly getting your information from the media when trying to decide the facts does not hold much credibility, they often have little or incorrect information and unless it is an in-depth piece rarely cover all sides of the story.   Mostly they are sensationalist pieces.

 

I have seen midwives who have practiced poorly, but more often I have seen ones that have been raked over the coals for political reasons, not because they did anything wrong.

 

And to address "why people always say that" is because the stats for neonatal death at a planned homebirth with a trained professional vs.  normal birth in the hospital are the same statistically.  So, often times a true emergency would not turn out differently at home or at a hospital as only the big city tertiary care centers are prepared to do an immediate section for those rare unforeseen emergencies.  For example if I have a catastrophic uterine rupture at home the amount of time it would take me to transport from home is less then it would take the team at the local community hospital to assemble for a crash section, and in a catastrophic uterine rupture the baby prob would not make it no matter location of birth....maybe at a tertiary care center, maybe not... does that make sense?    Most reasons to transport at a homebirth are not stat emergencies, things mostly take there time to get that bad, enough time to transport before it gets too ugly.

 

Anyway there are so many variability's that go into each scenario that I think it very unhelpful to speculate.  If I were you I would talk to the folks at NC Friends of Midwives and explain that it may look bad to you and some others that the min of silence is only about Amy and not also about the families...maybe this will make them change their approach/wording?

 

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Old 02-27-2011, 05:46 PM
 
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I already posted on NCFOM's facebook wall :)


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Old 02-28-2011, 07:11 AM
 
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Here is an article and where I'm getting that there is 1 stillbirth around January 20th, and 1 transfer for a baby whose condition was unknown "last weekend" which would now be 2 weekends ago.    

 

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/26990747/detail.html

 

Can we get some clarification from someone in terms of what is being done for these families?  It's got to be horrific enough to have a stillbirth or a child ill in the hospital, but when you put having your midwife arrested on top of it and having your birth in the news, those families probably need a *lot* of kindness and care right now.  What is the home birth community in NC doing to care for them throughout this period.  The "could these tragedies have been prevented" discussions are pretty irrelevant right now.  There is one family with a baby who has died, and one family with a child in the hospital in unknown condition, and they are in our court as the home birth community.  Home birth is about supporting women and families, and now they do not have their midwife available to be able to care for them.  How are they being cared for, honored and remembered throughout this struggle?  Can someone on the ground in NC please find out and get back to us on that?

 

Thank you!


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Old 02-28-2011, 06:49 PM
 
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Well, I am in NC and I don't know these families at all. I don't know how I would go about finding them, and I kind of feel like trying to do so would be quite intrusive.


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Old 02-28-2011, 06:59 PM
 
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"Well, I am in NC and I don't know these families at all. I don't know how I would go about finding them, and I kind of feel like trying to do so would be quite intrusive."


Exactly! I have no ties to this case, just been reading through, but seriously I would be so angry if my personal family information was given out to the "community". Not to mention that they are protected by HIPPA laws.
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Old 02-28-2011, 09:29 PM
 
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I don't know that it's unreasonable to think that NCFOM could have made a formal recognition that Amy Medwin got arrested as the result of caring for families who experienced tragedy, so we think of and support both Amy and the families who were under her care.  While collecting funds for Amy's legal defense, I think it would have been good karma and good PR to simultaneously help people be able to donate to a fund to help the families with medical expenses, funeral expenses, counseling, etc.  

 

I am alarmed at how quickly Amy Medwin being arrested for her participation in the care of a family experiencing a stillbirth and a family experiencing an emergency with their newborn went to "Amy was wrongfully arrested!" and then to "we're not talking about Amy anymore, but legalize CPMs in NC!"  It was very clear that NCFOM supports Amy Medwin, but home birth isn't just about midwives but about the families they serve welcoming new lives in peace and safety.  To not directly simultaneously say anything about the families is, to me, very problematic.  I am a home birth mom (3 home births now), but if I wasn't and I heard that a midwife was arrested after one baby died and another baby was transferred and hospitalized, and the response I was seeing from NCFOM was "our midwife was arrested for breaking a law that is ludicrous" instead of "two families in our community experienced tragedy this past month, and now to add insult to that prosecutors are exploiting their suffering to wage a political battle against CPMs, going so far as to arrest their midwife because she had offered them care"... I would not have a positive impression.  

 

Maybe NCFOM just botched it PR wise, but this chafes and it makes me deeply uncomfortable.  


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Old 03-01-2011, 05:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by loveneverfails View Post

I don't know that it's unreasonable to think that NCFOM could have made a formal recognition that Amy Medwin got arrested as the result of caring for families who experienced tragedy, so we think of and support both Amy and the families who were under her care.  While collecting funds for Amy's legal defense, I think it would have been good karma and good PR to simultaneously help people be able to donate to a fund to help the families with medical expenses, funeral expenses, counseling, etc.  

 

I am alarmed at how quickly Amy Medwin being arrested for her participation in the care of a family experiencing a stillbirth and a family experiencing an emergency with their newborn went to "Amy was wrongfully arrested!" and then to "we're not talking about Amy anymore, but legalize CPMs in NC!"  It was very clear that NCFOM supports Amy Medwin, but home birth isn't just about midwives but about the families they serve welcoming new lives in peace and safety.  To not directly simultaneously say anything about the families is, to me, very problematic.  I am a home birth mom (3 home births now), but if I wasn't and I heard that a midwife was arrested after one baby died and another baby was transferred and hospitalized, and the response I was seeing from NCFOM was "our midwife was arrested for breaking a law that is ludicrous" instead of "two families in our community experienced tragedy this past month, and now to add insult to that prosecutors are exploiting their suffering to wage a political battle against CPMs, going so far as to arrest their midwife because she had offered them care"... I would not have a positive impression.  

 

Maybe NCFOM just botched it PR wise, but this chafes and it makes me deeply uncomfortable.  


I agree with every bit of this. From an objective standpoint, this strategy seems very shady. 

 

Also, in no way do I expect NCFOM to be releasing the names of the families involved. I would just like to know that they are getting attention and support. I cannot imagine what they must be going through right now. 

 

 

 


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Old 03-01-2011, 05:42 AM
 
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Perhaps it was botched PR.  I really don't know.  It is not clear WHAT the impetus for the arrest was.  Yes, there are plenty of rumors, but there has not been any statement (that I know of) either from Amy, the NCFOM, or families.  So, while there are RUMORS that a baby was stillborn and that a baby was transferred to the hospital, in my opinion, none of this is FACT.  You can't really rally behind a family, when you don't know who they are or any details of what happened, or if anything even happened.

 

I am not saying this to minimize anything, though I know some of you are going to see it that way.  If a family were to come forward with their story, I would absolutely do what I could to support them. 


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Old 03-01-2011, 10:22 AM
 
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How is it a "rumor" that there was a stillbirth and a baby in the hospital when that is what multiple news organizations are reporting the police in two different counties are saying? 


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Old 03-01-2011, 10:24 AM
 
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This article goes into a little more depth and also has some quotes from one of the families.  http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/03/01/2101253/midwives-rally-in-raleigh-to-protest.html

 

And I have to agree about privacy for the families involved.  Clearly from this article the women with the stillborn didn't even want her name mentioned.  NCFOM has been trying for years to legalize CPMs in NC, this wasn't a newly formed group to piggyback on Amy's recent arrest. 


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Old 03-01-2011, 11:23 AM
 
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I was just coming to post that article!  So yes, rumors. 

 

From the above article...

 

"She said no parent has complained about her care.

Medwin was attending a home birth in Charlotte on Feb. 19 when a relative of the parents called 911. The newborn was transported to the hospital. Police checking Medwin's background found a warrant for her arrest in Rowan County. She was not charged with a midwifery violation in Mecklenburg County. The Rowan County charge stemmed from the stillbirth of a child in January. The child's mother, who spoke to the Observer on condition of anonymity, said she'd had two previous home births. This time, labor came quickly, and her third child was stillborn, the mother said.

Medwin, a family friend who had provided prenatal care for free, "wasn't even there."

At the hospital, the mother said she felt law enforcement officers were suggesting she had been negligent by not having a doctor provide prenatal care.

Medwin came forward to acknowledge providing care, and got arrested for doing it, the mother said. "She could have dodged it, but she stuck up for us. I still support her. I'm proud of her."

The mother added that she did not hold Medwin responsible for the stillbirth."


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Old 03-01-2011, 11:26 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loveneverfails View Post

How is it a "rumor" that there was a stillbirth and a baby in the hospital when that is what multiple news organizations are reporting the police in two different counties are saying? 



From what I have read, and I believe that I have read everything published in actual news sources (vs. anti-homebirth blogs), those rumors are NOT published in multiple news sources in 2 different counties.  And, without knowing the cause for the stillbirth, there is no reason to believe it is the fault of the midwife.  And now, in the Charlotte Observer article, we read (from the grieving mother of the stillborn baby), that Amy was not even at the birth.

 

So yes, rumors. 

 

 


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Old 03-16-2011, 12:24 PM
 
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No, not rumors. A lot of information is not being released because it would violate HIPPA, but as a birth professional in NC, I can tell you that they are not rumors. Two babies are now dead. One stillborn, the other was alive at birth and now is dead. The problem here is that NCFOM jumped on the "Pro-Amy" bandwagon before finding out what actually happened. No one has said anything about the dead babies- at all. These women and their dead children have been all but forgotten while the community that they once held dear is instead rallying around the CPM in question. I'm sure that is an absolutely humiliating and very hurtful experience for these families.

 

Additionally, there has been no peer review of the cases. One homebirthing CNM in our community who did call for a peer review was basically told to "put up and shut up". She has since left NCFOM due to this complete lack of peer review and accountability. As a birth professional, I am responsible for my actions. I just am. In order for me to deliver safe care to women, I must be held accountable and take responsibility for my actions- and that includes, most of all, my mistakes. Should we just sweep this under the rug and forget that baby that is now dead? Is it right to exploit the situation for PR purposes and use it to argue for licensing of CPM's? How would CPM licensure have helped in this instance? If CPM's in this state can't regulate themselves, how are the NC legislators and the voting public supposed to believe that CPM's will submit to the regulation of the state, MDs and CNMs?

 

So, yes, NCFOM dropped the ball- big time. If you want respect in the medical community, you have to prove that you are willing to submit to rules and regulations- because that's how you ensure the delivery of safe care. You have to show yourself as ready to hold your peers accountable for their actions and take responsibility for your own outcomes. What we have here is a group of people who appear to be refusing to do that. I can't get behind that. I've had a homebirth myself, but I just can't support an organization that won't hold it's members accountable for their client outcomes.

 

 

ETA: I admit that my information is second hand (as is all of our information) and so could possibly be incorrect. Unless we either are the CPM herself or the parents in question, it's impossible to know exactly what happened.


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Old 03-16-2011, 02:46 PM
 
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So, it is your contention that these deaths were due to the midwife's mistakes?  And you know this how? 

 

There was a quote from one of the families that their baby's death (I believe it was the stillborn baby) was NOT the fault of the midwife and that they do NOT hold her accountable. 

 

Also, in that article, the family asked to remain anonymous.  It would be a violation of their privacy for strangers to try to seek them out.


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Old 03-16-2011, 03:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chrissy View Post

So, it is your contention that these deaths were due to the midwife's mistakes?  And you know this how? 

 

There was a quote from one of the families that their baby's death (I believe it was the stillborn baby) was NOT the fault of the midwife and that they do NOT hold her accountable. 

 

Also, in that article, the family asked to remain anonymous.  It would be a violation of their privacy for strangers to try to seek them out.


Why is it hard to believe that some midwives screw up? Honestly, as a homebirth loss mom, things like this are a slap in the face. In my case, my midwife did try to manipulate us into believing she was not negligent. If this one midwife did that, how do we know this doesn't happen with others? You are scared to speak up. The very people who supported you will turn on you in a red hot minute if you dare blame your midwife of any wrongdoing. I know why parents choose to slink away and not say anything. It can't possibly be the midwife's fault. It's all your fault for A, B, and C. I'm in therapy to help me cope with my role in my baby dying. Perhaps if I didn't have to hear all the time that it was my fault, it wouldn't of gotten to the point that it did.

 

A good midwife doesn't leave a trail of dead babies in her wake.

 


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Old 03-16-2011, 05:07 PM
 
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It is NOT hard for me to believe that midwives screw up, but I am NOT going to assume it when I hear about a death.  I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt until I know otherwise.  I do know the midwife in question and I know that she is very professional.  Do I think this means that she never ever has made a single mistake?  No, of course not.  Everybody makes mistakes all the time.  I do believe that she has not made any mistakes that have caused a baby's death, and I will continue to believe that until there is proof otherwise. 

 

I also don't for a minute believe that it was the parents' fault that their babies died. 

 

What I believe is that there was an unavoidable accident or birth defect, that it was nobody's fault, that it was just a terrible tragedy. 

 

I don't understand why believing that is belittling or hurtful to families who have suffered this kind of immeasurable loss.

 

Mama, I am SO SO SO sorry for the loss of your beautiful baby girl.  I looked at her pictures in your signature and she is truly beautiful.  Losing a baby at, or just before, birth is every pregnant woman's worst nightmare.  I know that every time I am pregnant I worry about it constantly.  I don't believe for a second that you did anything to cause her death.  I am sure that you did nothing but love her and joyfully anticipate her arrival.  I am so so sorry that she did not live and that you don't have her with you today.  I am so sorry if your midwife was negligent in her care of you and your dd and if having another provider would have saved your daughter.  I am just so sorry.

 

 


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Old 03-16-2011, 06:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by chrissy View Post

So, it is your contention that these deaths were due to the midwife's mistakes?  And you know this how? 

 

There was a quote from one of the families that their baby's death (I believe it was the stillborn baby) was NOT the fault of the midwife and that they do NOT hold her accountable. 

 

Also, in that article, the family asked to remain anonymous.  It would be a violation of their privacy for strangers to try to seek them out.



This can not be known for certain unless a peer-review of the case is held, and that is not happening at this point in time, to my knowledge. Also, it is not for the stillborn's parents to decide that their child's death is not the fault of the midwife. Most laypeople have little medical knowledge and these folks probably wouldn't know one way or the other. It is for the peer-review to decide whether or not the CPM in question is culpable. Her culpability can't be determined except by a thorough review of the case by other birth professionals.



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It is NOT hard for me to believe that midwives screw up, but I am NOT going to assume it when I hear about a death.  I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt until I know otherwise.  I do know the midwife in question and I know that she is very professional.  Do I think this means that she never ever has made a single mistake?  No, of course not.  Everybody makes mistakes all the time.  I do believe that she has not made any mistakes that have caused a baby's death, and I will continue to believe that until there is proof otherwise. 

 

I also don't for a minute believe that it was the parents' fault that their babies died. 

 

What I believe is that there was an unavoidable accident or birth defect, that it was nobody's fault, that it was just a terrible tragedy. 

 

I don't understand why believing that is belittling or hurtful to families who have suffered this kind of immeasurable loss.

 

Mama, I am SO SO SO sorry for the loss of your beautiful baby girl.  I looked at her pictures in your signature and she is truly beautiful.  Losing a baby at, or just before, birth is every pregnant woman's worst nightmare.  I know that every time I am pregnant I worry about it constantly.  I don't believe for a second that you did anything to cause her death.  I am sure that you did nothing but love her and joyfully anticipate her arrival.  I am so so sorry that she did not live and that you don't have her with you today.  I am so sorry if your midwife was negligent in her care of you and your dd and if having another provider would have saved your daughter.  I am just so sorry.

 

 



Shouldn't you withhold judgment one way or the other until the peer-review of the case? This is the difference between a professional organization and a "Good Ole Boy's Club". A professional organization says, "Even though we may be friends, I still must hold you accountable for your actions, and therefore, poor outcomes or incidences of possible negligence will be investigated thoroughly." A Good Ole Boy's Club says, "Eh, we're friends, and I know you're cool and all, so unless someone comes along and proves me otherwise, I'm just going to assume it wasn't your fault so that we can go on being friends."


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Old 03-16-2011, 07:00 PM
 
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I'm not against peer review, not at all.  But I am not a peer.  I am a mother and a supporter and friend of midwives, babies, other mothers, families....  So, my position is to support this midwife.  I would absolutely offer my support to the families as well, if they came forward and seemed to desire it. 

 

I have a legal background, I was a lawyer before I became a mother, and I am a firm believer in "innocent until proven guilty."

 

What is the usual way that stillbirth or birth injury is dealt with in the birth community?  Are you saying that it is usually dealt with by a peer review, but this time it isn't? 

 

It seems to me like you have something against either homebirth in general or this midwife in particular. 

 

 


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Old 03-16-2011, 07:19 PM
 
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I'm not against peer review, not at all.  But I am not a peer.  I am a mother and a supporter and friend of midwives, babies, other mothers, families....  So, my position is to support this midwife.  I would absolutely offer my support to the families as well, if they came forward and seemed to desire it. 

 

I have a legal background, I was a lawyer before I became a mother, and I am a firm believer in "innocent until proven guilty."

 

What is the usual way that stillbirth or birth injury is dealt with in the birth community?  Are you saying that it is usually dealt with by a peer review, but this time it isn't? 

 

It seems to me like you have something against either homebirth in general or this midwife in particular. 

 

 



I have absolutely nothing against home birth (I have had one myself) and I have never met this midwife. Who she is is irrelevant. Intrapartum deaths and injuries require peer-review. This takes place with CNMs and MD/DO's. It should take place with CPM's as well. To my knowledge, there has been no peer-review and there are no plans for a peer-review to be conducted in this case. NCFOM had a significant opportunity to prove to the people of NC that they are capable of self-regulation with this case. They missed that opportunity, which is unfortunate.


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Old 03-16-2011, 07:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by holly6737 View Post
 NCFOM had a significant opportunity to prove to the people of NC that they are capable of self-regulation with this case. They missed that opportunity, which is unfortunate.


NCFOM should have no involvement with peer review. The North Carolina Midwife Alliance is the peer-review group.
 

 

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Old 03-16-2011, 08:11 PM
 
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NCFOM should have released a statement calling for a proper investigation and peer review of this case. No, they would not conduct such a review, but rushing to defend this midwife without calling for a proper vetting of the case was a mistake for their PR.

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NCFOM should have no involvement with peer review. The North Carolina Midwife Alliance is the peer-review group.
 

 



 


CNM mama.

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Old 03-16-2011, 08:23 PM
 
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NCFOM has NOTHING to do with peer review, as it is not a group of peers but of "friends" of midwives.  Why should they have called for peer review?  If NC midwives have peer review, then I am sure there is a peer review in progress. 

 

Where are you getting your information that there is no peer review in this case? 


Chrissy, lucky mama to Noah (9), Lilah (6), Rowan (3) and Laney (1).
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:30 PM
 
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FTR the case was peer reviewed well before the arrest was made.


Amy: Certified Professional Midwife and mom to Max (11) and Stella (6).
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Old 04-06-2011, 05:43 PM
 
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Is there any more updates on Amy? I was just brought aware of this story and I am totally upset. Was there any formal charges and sentence yet? 

 

Thanks Carmen

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Old 04-19-2011, 08:42 PM
 
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she went to court a few weeks ago with over 100 people there to support & The D.A. asked for an extension b/c they weren't 'prepared'. So, next court date is 4/26--we shall see! (in Salisbury)

 

with the bill and changes being made in legislation, all that should help her case. Call your senators & tell them to support!!

 

check out ncfom.org

 

 

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