breech turning help, poss. vaginal breech-friendly doc in NNJ? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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Old 02-17-2009, 08:38 PM
 
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Amanda,

dlm194 is brilliant, these are truly wise sage words to live by.
Thanks NJ ICAN dlm194

"I tell this to women a lot: if it rained on your wedding day, no one would fault you for being sad about that or tell you that it doesn’t matter because the important thing is that you are married. People understand how special a wedding day is and how hard a bride works to make it a perfect and special day. For some reason, we don’t treat birth the same way. "




go go girl.
I hope you found Ellen Chuse # in the healthy guide, she is a such a good birth counselor, having her care and support will make a difference dealing with you're feelings.
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:33 PM
 
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Amanda,
Just wanted to say I am so sorry things didn't turn out the way you hoped. I don't fault you for wanting to get it over with, I feel the same way about surgery and can understand not wanting to think about it too much. I know how hard you worked and researched - you had a vision of welcoming your baby in a beautiful waterbirth and this must seem like the farthest thing from it. I hope that you are already snuggling your baby and its all over. I think dlm is very wise to remind you that you have permission to mourn - but I hope that you also find peace with everything that has happened.

You know that this is NOT a failure of your body to birth vaginally - good news for possible VBAC, if that's on your mind, and also for your own inner peace. Its just one of those flukey things that happens.

In a way, you could look at this as your baby, even before (s)he comes into the world, asserting an individual personality. I'll take this moment to say, welcome to motherhood! This is only the first time, but not the the last, that your child will not do what you expect, what you hope, or what you request! In fact, I can imagine a child with this beginning carving a totally unique path in life - not the easiest road, not the road most travelled - but choosing firmly and sticking to the choices (s)he makes. I wish you joy in meeting your baby and in the rest of the days you'll spend being surprised and changed.
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:06 PM
 
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Hi Amanda,

I am so sorry things had to go this way for you. I hope you and the baby are ok and recovering well.
I want to ask a "stupid" question of the responders to this thread at this point: why won't anyone do a breech vaginal birth in the hospital? Aren't there any "crunchier" providers who would be willing?
This thread made me quite scared and upset... for Amanda and anyone else going through this. I know that birth can be a process that we can't ultimately control and plan even if we did everything to make it happen naturally, but why this flat-out refusal to not do a vaginal breech? I am planning on VBAC'ing with Pam and Louise and am wondering if they'd be willing to do it...I will ask at my appt tomorrow.
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Old 02-18-2009, 04:33 PM
 
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Amanda. I'm sorry that things did not work out better.

It seems like it's even harder to get a breech vaginal birth than a VBAC. I wonder if part of it is because there are certain breech positions which are generally incompatible with safe vaginal birth, and it can be hard to be sure whether the baby is in one of those positions, baby can move in between u/s and birth time, not everyone is skilled at palpating to determine exact position at the moment. But it's a shame because there are some positions which are very compatible with breech vaginal birth, every bit as safe as head down.
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:57 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mom2Jordan View Post
Hi Amanda,

I am so sorry things had to go this way for you. I hope you and the baby are ok and recovering well.
I want to ask a "stupid" question of the responders to this thread at this point: why won't anyone do a breech vaginal birth in the hospital? Aren't there any "crunchier" providers who would be willing?
This thread made me quite scared and upset... for Amanda and anyone else going through this. I know that birth can be a process that we can't ultimately control and plan even if we did everything to make it happen naturally, but why this flat-out refusal to not do a vaginal breech? I am planning on VBAC'ing with Pam and Louise and am wondering if they'd be willing to do it...I will ask at my appt tomorrow.
They won't do breech VBACs. I asked too. Pam told me that if my baby ended up being breech (Thank God she wasn't) my only option was The Farm and they wouldn't take me with a single layer suture anyway. Not sure for a breech in a good position, like a frank breech on someone with a prior vaginal birth. Maybe Dr. Burbella would... They had a VBAC last month who was a double footling breech and wouldn't consent to the c/s (very small mom, big baby, bag of water and feet protruding, cord around the neck, the whole nine yards). Eventually the parents did consent but P & L were pretty upset because it was a dangerous situation and they were worried for the mom and baby. I said to Pam that if it was me and the baby was in breech but in a different position I don't know if I would consent either. Its a hard call. She did say that they had a surprise breech homebirth once.

Taryn-31 Crunchy Conservative Catholic SAHM with DH-32
DS 7.5, DD 5 (vbac), DD 2.5 (vbac), and DD 12/30/13 (vbac)

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Old 02-18-2009, 11:35 PM
 
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Licensed homebirth midwives in NJ are not allowed to do breeches. They can lose their license if they do. I believe it is the same for NY...someone correct me if I am wrong. Those who are not licensed are often afraid of litigation in any event because if you are attending a breech birth and anything goes wrong, the provider will be blamed for not transporting/agreeing to do a breech birth. Breech is unfortunately not seen as a variation of normal like it once was and many providers are never trained in how to handle breeches.

It is not the case here in PA (we are not licensed so don't have to fear losing it), so if one wanted to have a vaginal breech birth and was willing to travel to PA to have that birth it is a possibility with a homebirth midwife who is not a CNM (again, CNM's can lose their license if they attend breeches at home knowingly).

There are certain criteria that must be met and the mother and father have to be fully aware of the risks and benefits of a vaginal breech birth. Baby can't be stargazing (head must be tucked), there should be lots of cord (don't want the cord to be too short and end up with a problem of baby not descending), and ideally the baby would be a complete or frank breech (footling breeches are more problematic, particularly in primips, but anyone who has seen Psalm and Zoya knows that that is not always the case, and if you look at the homebirth mutiny site [google it] from the homebirth midwife in Australia you'll find tons of good breech info), and ideally the mother has had a vaginal birth before (though again, there is debate about this).

Homebirth Midwifing mama to five blessings in Northeastern PA.
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:37 PM
 
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Thanks dewi ~ this is obviously something I am very passionate about! It's hard because some women really don't care about their birth experience. But many do and our feelings should not be voided because other women think going in for surgery is a fabulous option (I know I'm preaching to the choir here!). Of course many women go through awful drugged up vaginal births so they believe that c-sections are easier, better etc. Our society is way too desensitized to this.

Mom2Jordan ~ Taryn is right. Pam and Louise do not do breech deliveries. I think it's less about "them" and more about what they are allowed to do via their back up doctor and hospital. If I remember correctly (I could listen to Pam tell birth stories all day!) even back when they did attend breech deliveries, a doctor had to be present. Their back up doctor might be willing to attend a breech delivery but probably not in a first time vaginal birth. It's not a hopeless situation if your baby is breech though. There are some doctors and homebirth midwives in the area who might be willing to attend you. In the regular birth forum, someone with a breech baby mentioned that The Farm will no longer do breech deliveries in a first time vaginal birth (just like they won't attend single layer suture VBACs). The poster did mention that they have a list of homebirth breech-friendly midwives though.

If you live not far from Pam and Louise's office, I would highly recommend Louise's chiropractor - Dr Glenn Gabi (sp?). He is wonderful! Also the Bagnells that were previously mentioned in this thread practice down in Langhorne PA (where Sesame Place is). As much as possible, you really want to keep that baby head down!

Proud mommy 9/2004 ribboncesarean.gif , 11/2007 vbac.gif, 2/2011 ribboncesarean.gif
ICAN of New Jersey --> find 2010 NJ hospital birth stats here!

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Old 02-18-2009, 11:42 PM
 
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The farm is no longer doing first time vaginal breeches? That's really a shame. But then, so is their single layer policy, which is not evidence based.

Homebirth Midwifing mama to five blessings in Northeastern PA.
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Old 02-19-2009, 12:06 AM
 
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I've been following this thread religiously.

Amanda, I'm thinking about you.

My daughter was breech and although the 2nd version worked (nothing else did) I ended with a c-section anyway. I am now PG with number 2 coming via VBAC in Aug / Sept... and know that I am at risk for repeat breech. So following this thread. Even had a dream of walking into hospital pushing last week.
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Old 02-19-2009, 01:34 AM
 
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Good point Jen - there are a number of births that are illegal for licensed homebirth midwives in NJ to attend: hbacs, breeches, before 37 weeks or after 42 weeks, twins, babies that are measure very large, etc.

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The farm is no longer doing first time vaginal breeches? That's really a shame. But then, so is their single layer policy, which is not evidence based.
That's what the poster was saying in this thread: http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1038454


Proud mommy 9/2004 ribboncesarean.gif , 11/2007 vbac.gif, 2/2011 ribboncesarean.gif
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Old 02-19-2009, 12:13 PM
 
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That is just so wrong. I'm quite disappointed that the Farm has taken that approach.

Homebirth Midwifing mama to five blessings in Northeastern PA.
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Old 02-20-2009, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just wanted to make a quick reply to this thread (whole birth story coming at some point of course) with an update. C-section was had, and despite being the single most horrifying experience of my entire life, it was no where near as bad as I was afraid of. The young dude is almost 2 days old, cute as an ugly, red, somewhat wrinkled little button, and completely fine. I'm limping around very slowly, and we're all taking it easy at the hospital. After the whole thing being turned into a complete fiasco with the practitioners we were with, we made a leap of faith and called up the OB who'd tried to do the version, just kind of to get someone else's advice, and we decided on Wednesday night to go have him do the section at a completely different hospital.

It worked out really well. I don't know what the experience would have been like at the other hospital, obviously, but everything here has gone so smoothly and everyone here is so helpful and friendly, that even though I'm still disappointed about having to have a c-section, we're really leaving feeling pretty satisfied and relieved by the experience.
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Old 02-20-2009, 08:20 PM
 
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Congratulations, mama!! :



Pat

I have a blog.
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Old 02-20-2009, 08:44 PM
 
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Congrats, and thanks for the update!!!

Homebirth Midwifing mama to five blessings in Northeastern PA.
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Old 02-21-2009, 12:15 AM
 
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Congratulations on the arrival of your little guy! I'm sorry that it was not the birth that you had hoped for but I'm glad it wasn't as bad as you expected (I can imagine that the anticipation is worse than the actual procedure). I'm also glad that you went with your gut and called the other doctor up. It's proof that it's never too late to make a switch.

As hard as it is, keep getting up and walking! It will help you heal faster. Take care!

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Old 02-21-2009, 12:52 AM
 
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Congratulations : Babies are the world's most perfect gift!

Wishing you a speedy recovery. :

Sus

Baby the babies while they're babies so they don't need babying for a lifetime.
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Old 02-21-2009, 01:32 AM
 
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Congrats!

Did you end up having a c with Riess and Migotsky at Greenwich? That is where I had mine (Migotsky) and I thought that the staff and hospital facilities at Greenwich were awesome. You're in good hands, if that is where you are.

Hope you heal fast and enjoy that babe!

*Meghan* - Mom to Sam (5/14/08) and Joseph Scott born 9/10/09! and wife to amazing hubby Mike : ! WE LOVE OUR : FAMILY!
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Old 02-21-2009, 11:11 AM
 
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Amanda,
CONGRATULATIONS !!!!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Someone earlier in the thread asked WHY Vaginal breech births are not done anymore.
Simple answer is:
It is not taught in medical school in the USA anymore.
They are taught c/sec for breech.

If a doctor is older or trained to do it, they go up against hospital policy that frequently dictates how a doctor practices in a hospital. Let's not forget defensive nature of practicing obstetrics because of malpractice insurance. Shitty situation! I can actually feel enormous compassion for many doctors.

In the alternative birth community we frequently hear from medical residents and/ or newer practicing OB's who have never seen an unmedicated birth in general So they are not taught many natural techniques to help deliver babies anymore.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Old 02-21-2009, 10:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yes, Dr. Reiss did the surgery. Even though it was the single most horrifying and terrifying experience of my life, even at the time I realized that it had gone incredibly quickly and smoothly. The nurses are all SO friendly and helpful, Dr. Reiss has been back here every day to check on us, all of our questions have been answered, and the food is surprisingly good (the Celebration Dinner? OMG.) And the room looks like a hotel room! All blessings, small or otherwise, to count when recovering from a scary surgery you wish you didn't have to have.

All in all it's like the last four days have been an effort to make me not feel so bad about having to have a c-section, on so many levels.

It is, as my mom said, a "really classy joint".

Dr. Reiss says people have called it "hotel Greenwich".

Quote:
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Congrats!

Did you end up having a c with Riess and Migotsky at Greenwich? That is where I had mine (Migotsky) and I thought that the staff and hospital facilities at Greenwich were awesome. You're in good hands, if that is where you are.

Hope you heal fast and enjoy that babe!
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Old 02-22-2009, 02:07 AM
 
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Well, if it had to happen, you're in the right place. I remember the "hotel Greenwich" reference - that's certainly what it seemed like! My ds ended up having to stay in the hospital after I left and we were an hour away, and the NICU nurses were awesome. I would consider going back there in a heartbeat but unfortunately Reiss and Migotsky DO NOT "do" VBAC's and I don't think they have any midwives on staff there to attend one either. At the moment I am trying to figure out which hospital I CAN birth at without feeling like the deck will be stacked against me from the get-go. I was certainly spoiled by my experience at Greenwich, though. Probably nothing will compare to those facilities after that!

*Meghan* - Mom to Sam (5/14/08) and Joseph Scott born 9/10/09! and wife to amazing hubby Mike : ! WE LOVE OUR : FAMILY!
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