breech turning help, poss. vaginal breech-friendly doc in NNJ? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 50 Old 02-12-2009, 11:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi all,

At 39 +4 I was just informed the baby is sitting head-up.

Can anyone recommend:

1. a good chiropractor in or near the Northern NJ area I could turn to on short notice for the Webster technique, and if that doesn't work...

2. a Dr. who does versions with a good success rate, and preferably is also experienced with vaginal breech birth just in case, and if that doesn't work...

3. does anyone know where I can go (hospital, doctor, midwife?) where they will try a normal vaginal breech delivery, preferably without hysterics? (it's my first pregnancy)

Desperately looking for anything I can possibly do to fix this at this point, I really, REALLY do not want surgery and if they "won't do" a vaginal breech birth at Palisades, I will not go there if I can find somewhere else that will possibly do it.

Thanks,
Amanda
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#2 of 50 Old 02-13-2009, 12:31 AM
 
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Dr. Howard Werfel (Chiropractor) in Suffern NY does the Webster technique and he'll see you immediately, he's open tomorrow a.m. (I used to work there!) ...and he's awesome.
845-368-4100...he might be able to recommend someone if you need a chiro that's closer to where you are, but I'll tell you know he's worth the drive wherever you have to come from!

As far as a completely different provider goes, you could try Lonnie Morris (CNM) I believe she practices out of Paramus, or Ft. Lee...? Not sure anymore (She used to be at the Pascack Valley birth center which closed down. I know of a LOT of people who used her and LOVED her.

Hope that helps.

*Meghan* - Mom to Sam (5/14/08) and Joseph Scott born 9/10/09! and wife to amazing hubby Mike : ! WE LOVE OUR : FAMILY!
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#3 of 50 Old 02-13-2009, 04:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Lonnie IS my midwife! And she told me that if I walk into the hospital with the kid in breech, they WILL give me a c-section. So I'm looking for a midwife, dr or hospital where they will do a vaginal breech birth because a policy against it is absolute BS.

I'll call that chiro first thing in the am though, thanks for the recommendation!
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#4 of 50 Old 02-13-2009, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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!
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#5 of 50 Old 02-13-2009, 12:04 PM
 
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Are you only looking for a hospital provider? If you would consider a homebirth, try Jessica. http://www.newjerseyhomebirth.com/

They can have their policies all they want, but you can refuse to consent to surgery and they cannot turn you away in labor. If it comes down to it, walk in pushing.
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#6 of 50 Old 02-13-2009, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Are you only looking for a hospital provider? If you would consider a homebirth, try Jessica. http://www.newjerseyhomebirth.com/

They can have their policies all they want, but you can refuse to consent to surgery and they cannot turn you away in labor. If it comes down to it, walk in pushing.
Sent them a message, thanks!

If you walk into a hospital trying to push out a breech baby, and they decide you have to have a cesarean, won't they force one on you whether you refuse or not? I'm sure I've heard of that happening.
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#7 of 50 Old 02-13-2009, 01:12 PM
 
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Try Bagnell Chiropractic in Langhorne Pa. Good Luck!!

They have a website: www.drbagnell.com
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#8 of 50 Old 02-13-2009, 01:51 PM
 
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nak

It has happened but it is illegal. I guess they just figure they're more likely to get sued the other way and play the odds. I think it's less likely now than say 10 years ago; I dunno that anyone wants the press associated with forced surgery in this day and age, especially with all the press that unnecessary cesareans trend has been getting lately.

Is your partner on board?
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#9 of 50 Old 02-13-2009, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My husband's priorities and mine are 100% aligned when it comes to this whole, entire baby-having thing, thank God. I don't think I'd get through this if he wasn't 100% behind me.

He enthusiastically took to shining a flashlight around my lower abdomen, and only laughed out loud when I told him I'd just come home from being stuck with needles and having incense burned on my pinky toes - and I can't blame him for that, really.

So I spoke to Jessica, and she says she's not comfortable doing a first-time breech home birth (neither am I, really) but I have an appointment with her tomorrow to see if she can convince him to turn around the traditional way before I try the OB way with machines and drugs and whatnot. If it doesn't work, I'll just keep the version appt. with the OB on Monday. Thanks for that!

Thanks also for mentioning the bad press thing - I know legal action usually doesn't help against, but I hadn't thought of threats of publicity, but I'll make sure to have them in our bag of tricks, so to speak, if we wind up at the hospital with the kid still breech.

One thing I'm wondering about - If you're doing all these inversions, dangling off the cough, etc., and the kid does turn vertex, do you need to know that and stop doing them immediately? If you keep doing them after the kid rights himself, will it make him go back to breech?
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#10 of 50 Old 02-13-2009, 03:26 PM
 
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This question came up a several month ago and I think Dr Gae Rodke in NY is the only doctor that will do breech deliveries locally. She does not take insurance though but I think she will give you an honest assessment of your baby's position and the safety of trying a breech vaginal delivery.

The other thing that you CAN do if hop in your car and drive down to the Farm in TN where they will attend breech deliveries.

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#11 of 50 Old 02-13-2009, 03:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I did contact Dr. Rodke's office, and it is right out for us unfortunately. It's not a matter of whether it's worth it, we just don't HAVE that kind of money.

They quoted me, to *start with*, 500 for a consultation, 1500 for an attempted version, then 10,000 for the birth IF the version works. She stressed that there were a LOT of other charges that could, and do, easily pile on in the course of all of this. And this would all have to be up front, by cash, check or credit card. Simply not possible, I'm afraid. It's a shame that having a normal, vaginal breech birth is apparently considered a very high-end luxury around here!

I've heard a lot about this The Farm, but I've always discounted it as being probably a 13+ hour drive away. I should look into it, though. Any idea what they charge?
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#12 of 50 Old 02-13-2009, 03:50 PM
 
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I replied to your thread in "I'm Pregnant" and am pasting my reply here too. Good luck!
------
This website has stats on vaginal breech deliveries by NJ hospitals. http://romancathanachronism.typepad....pitals-br.html. Looks like Pascack Valley Hospital has slightly more breech vaginal deliveries (4%) so maybe try there? I wouldn't think that is too far from your location. Not sure how far Lourdes Medical Center (in Burlington County) is from you but their rate looks to be over 8% (compared with Palisades Med Center at under 1.5%).

Do you know if your LO is footling or frank breech?

The problem sounds more like your hospital than your midwife - she likely isn't allowed by the hospital to prefer breech vaginal deliveries or her hospital rights could be revoked. Why have you been unhappy with her throughout and if unhappy why did you stay with her?

As others have posted, there is Webster chiro, spinning babies.com, etc.

Good luck!

Happy mama to DD (8-11-05) and DS (6-5-09) and married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01.
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#13 of 50 Old 02-13-2009, 04:02 PM
 
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Also have you tried taking Pulsatilla?

Happy mama to DD (8-11-05) and DS (6-5-09) and married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01.
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#14 of 50 Old 02-13-2009, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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No! There's something I haven't heard of at all! Mind elucidating?

I'll google it, too.

Thanks!
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#15 of 50 Old 02-13-2009, 04:35 PM
 
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Hey, I'm nowhere near you. But, my friend just birthed her breech baby daughter at home about 2 weeks ago! She'd had the Webster technique done at 37 weeks to turn her. But, she flipped back. She'd planned a homebirth and decided that is exactly where she needed to be.

Her story of trusting her body to birth is beautiful! You can do it. Have you thought about birthing at home? Contact the local homebirth or doula resources in your area, they'll have some idea for birth support in or out of hospital, so that you can have the birth you want and that your baby wants!

Best wishes!

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#17 of 50 Old 02-14-2009, 10:41 PM
 
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Dr. Michael Fox is an awesome chiro in Millburn who is certified in Webster. Not sure if this is too late for you though.

You might also try to contact Dr. Winsome Parchment in Maplewood. She seems to be very crunchy, and may (or may not) be amenable to delivering a breech vaginally. She delivers at Overlook in Summit and I want to say Morristown. (I've never used her, but have read a ton of positive comments about her).

Good luck!
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#18 of 50 Old 02-14-2009, 10:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Waitwait... is her name seriously Winsome Parchment? I pretty much have to look her up just because of that.

Has anybody actually had the Webster technique and could give me a rough description of how it goes? I went to a chiro today who said he was going to do this Webster technique, but I didn't detect anything different from the usual pregnant-lady-adjustment, it seemed like it was just the normal stuff.
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#19 of 50 Old 02-14-2009, 10:52 PM
 
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LOL - yes, her name is seriously Winsome Parchment. Isn't that a GREAT name??? I've never met the woman, but a bunch of people I know have or are using her for their pregnancies and they all RAVE about her.
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#20 of 50 Old 02-15-2009, 12:29 PM
 
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Amanda,

I agree with you, sadly we have to pay out of pocket for the type of care we want. "Alternative heath care" is a real luxury.

Rodke has not taken insurance for a very long time (she used to be my GYN) and stopped taking insurance when HMO's over took health care in the early 1990's.

If you have health insurance and if they pay for out of network, she would be considered an "out of network provider" and you could call them and see what they would reimburse of her fees. Roosevelt hospital takes all types of insurances so the hospital part would be covered.

She does vaginal breech delivery, so if the version does not work you can go on to try a vaginal breech birth.

Best to you.
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#21 of 50 Old 02-16-2009, 08:36 PM
 
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Any update Amanda?

Homebirth Midwifing mama to five blessings in Northeastern PA.
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#22 of 50 Old 02-16-2009, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I just came back from the OB who was to try to do the version.

He checked everything out, and said there was nothing he could do.
The kid will NOT budge; he's sitting on his feet; big head; low amniotic fluid; cord is all over the damn place including, they're almost 100% sure, around the baby's neck. When a midwife tried to get him to turn this weekend, his heartbeat started to drop, and they had to stop. (It recovered immediately)

It's like a quadruple whammy, huh?

I'm 2 cm and 80% effaced already. They called my midwife and together they told us I should come home and sleep and go to the hospital in the morning.

Thanks, everyone, for your suggestions and advice and for time and energy spent cogitating on the matter for me.
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Take probiotics NOW! And arnica montana 200c before and after surgery. Take probiotics twice a day for a minimum of four weeks. Whole food probiotics are best: kefir, kombucha, yogurt (with active live cultures), fermented vegetables: Bubbies dill pickles and sauerkraut. Avoid dairy, otherwise. Get some Natural Calm for mamas, it will help healing. Eat coconut oil for killing off the candida which comes with the antibiotics they'll give you.

It is ok for the heartrate to drop with laboring. It is ok for the cord to be around the baby's neck. Totally normal. Those are not worthy of interventions. But, any OB will do a section. Take zinc, vit C for healing.

Hope all goes well.


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#24 of 50 Old 02-16-2009, 11:10 PM
 
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I went to Dr. Bagnell just for basic prenatal chiropractic care, and I thought he was fine. I know he has a technique for flipping babies.

Aven
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#25 of 50 Old 02-17-2009, 12:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amandala View Post
I just came back from the OB who was to try to do the version.

He checked everything out, and said there was nothing he could do.
The kid will NOT budge; he's sitting on his feet; big head; low amniotic fluid; cord is all over the damn place including, they're almost 100% sure, around the baby's neck. When a midwife tried to get him to turn this weekend, his heartbeat started to drop, and they had to stop. (It recovered immediately)

It's like a quadruple whammy, huh?

I'm 2 cm and 80% effaced already. They called my midwife and together they told us I should come home and sleep and go to the hospital in the morning.

Thanks, everyone, for your suggestions and advice and for time and energy spent cogitating on the matter for me.
Wow, that sounds like an appt. that ended different from what you expected.

What about waiting until you go into labor so the baby tells you he's ready, rather than someone deciding it's time for him to come out? Was this a part of the discussion?

Sus

Baby the babies while they're babies so they don't need babying for a lifetime.
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#26 of 50 Old 02-17-2009, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I dunno, I just don't foresee myself getting any less worked up about it between now and then. I think I'd rather spend one day crying in bed, then proceed there in a calm fashion, than spend two or three or four days crying in bed, knowing I'm going to have to get up and rush there with very short notice at some point.

My nerves can't handle any more of this. Everyone says once it's all over with I'll be able to look back at it and be able to put it behind me, but I have to spend the meantime thinking forward to being operated on while I'm awake, which I really think is the most horrifying thing I can imagine right now.
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#27 of 50 Old 02-17-2009, 01:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Amandala View Post
I dunno, I just don't foresee myself getting any less worked up about it between now and then. I think I'd rather spend one day crying in bed, then proceed there in a calm fashion, than spend two or three or four days crying in bed, knowing I'm going to have to get up and rush there with very short notice at some point.

My nerves can't handle any more of this. Everyone says once it's all over with I'll be able to look back at it and be able to put it behind me, but I have to spend the meantime thinking forward to being operated on while I'm awake, which I really think is the most horrifying thing I can imagine right now.
Good luck mama. I'm so sorry this is happening. I know this is far from your ideal birth but just try to make it the best it can be. Here's a link to a good birth plan with a section for a cesarean birth: http://romancathanachronism.typepad....irth-plan.html

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#28 of 50 Old 02-17-2009, 02:18 PM
 
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It will be ok, mama.


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#29 of 50 Old 02-17-2009, 05:40 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Amandala View Post

My nerves can't handle any more of this. Everyone says once it's all over with I'll be able to look back at it and be able to put it behind me, but I have to spend the meantime thinking forward to being operated on while I'm awake, which I really think is the most horrifying thing I can imagine right now.
Please, please don’t put that kind of pressure on yourself!! People really mean well and they want to be helpful by telling you that it won’t matter how your baby gets here or that “all that matters is a healthy baby.” This isn’t the birth that you want and it’s okay to mourn that. Even a medical necessity for a c-section doesn’t mean that you cannot feel sadness over the birth experience that you lost. I tell this to women a lot: if it rained on your wedding day, no one would fault you for being sad about that or tell you that it doesn’t matter because the important thing is that you are married. People understand how special a wedding day is and how hard a bride works to make it a perfect and special day. For some reason, we don’t treat birth the same way. We have this myth pounded into us that women and children used to die all the time in childbirth so we should just be grateful to get out of it alive. There is nothing wrong with feeling sadness or disappointment over the way that your birth happened while simultaneously feeling incredible joy about welcoming your child into this world.

I am sure your midwife can come into the OR with you. Ask her to tell you what is happening so you can feel involved with your birth. Also ask her to take lots of pictures for you so that you will have another view of your birth and what happened. Part of my sadness about my c-section was being disconnected from the process. I had a midwife who could have made it a much better experience (of course she also could have waited for me to dilate rather than shipping me off to surgery because she was tired of hanging around for me but that’s another story!!)

I hope everything goes well for you!! Hang in there mama.

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#30 of 50 Old 02-17-2009, 05:57 PM
 
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Oh I'm so sorry Amandala

I might end up being in your position too. I'm 36 weeks, so there's some time for the baby to turn, but I'm trying to emotionally prepare for what will happen if the baby is still breech at the end.

I'm really upset about possibly needing a c-section. I'm terrified of surgery, but also grieving the possibility of losing my home birth. I feel kind of alone in my distress, like the people in my life don't really see why it's such a big deal to me. I guess that's why I'm so happy I found MDC! In any case, I'll be thinking of you and sending you lots of healing (physical and emotional) vibes.

I'm thinking of seeing a therapist if I do end up getting a c-section. (Both ahead of time, to try to help myself come to terms with it, and afterward, to process how I'm feeling about it.) I found a few therapists who specialize in pregnancy, labor, and postpartum issues in the Choices in Childbirth NY Guide to a Healthy Birth. You can look at it here if you're interested. I know that some of the therapists will come to your home for a session (so you don't have to worry about making it to their office while healing from surgery and taking care of a newborn). I don't know if they'll come to NJ, but it's worth looking into if you think it might help you.

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