Need Advice From People That Have Dealt With Cps In PA - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 16 Old 08-19-2012, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok this is very long so here it goes:

 

     My husbands ex girlfriend has three children. She had a child before they met and were together. She found out she was pregnant with my husbands child and ended the relationship. It came out later that's all she wanted was another child and he fell for it. I met my husband when she was around 3 months pregnant. The day after I met him we were in a serious relationship. It was very quick I know but I knew that's what I wanted. His son was born in June of 08. We got married in October of 08. From 2008 to April of 2012 she made it impossible for us to have contact with his son. Flash forward to April 2012, all three of her children were removed from her care. She had another child in 2011.

 

The children were removed because:

  1. She left an infant unattended in a motor vehicle while she went into a bar and partied
  2. Her boyfriend was physically/Mentally abusive to children
  3. Her home is disgusting
  4. She could not clean or do any simple household tasks
  5. She lives with her parents and does not have a stable home without them and CPS didn't like it
  6. The children are afraid of her boyfriend
  7. Her boyfriend threatened the lives of the children, ex girlfriend, her parents, and agency staff with an assault rifle
  8. The children would scream and cry when left alone with him, begging to go too
  9. The children were left alone with him
  10. Not enough food, clothing, etc

 

     After the children were placed into Foster Care, my husband fought for custody of his son. In April we were granted Primary Physical Custody of his son. We were told the case was open from CPS because of him being in foster care but that case would be closed because he was no longer in foster care. My husband and I have three children together. Now four and a half months later we are still dealing with CPS.  

     CPS is harassing myself and my family. Anything is a "Safety Hazard" to them, and I literally mean anything. My dog being able to bump into the kids, my 11 month old son drinking his bottle on the living room floor, me having an electric stove because the coils stay hot, an open can of ravioli that the kids had just eaten on the kitchen counter because I was cleaning them up from eating it and hadn't gotten to throw it away yet. You  name it they pointed it out to me. I'm not proud of it, but I lost my patience with them and let them have it.

     My children are not abused, or neglected. My home gets messy absolutely. We have four children ages 4,3,2,and almost 1. So yeah I'm one person I can only accomplish so much at a time. I have lowered the number of toys they have downstairs to help with clean up time. I cook, I do dishes, I vacuum, I shampoo the floors, I dust, I sweep and mop, I keep the counters and stove clean. I mean what more do they want?

      I just want them to leave us alone and go help the children who are in need and who are being abused, and stop wasting their time on people who have done nothing wrong. This is all very frustrating. CPS is at my home biweekly. Harassing me, making it out like I can't do anything right with my children. Our discipline is Gentle. She asked me if we put our children in Time outs. When I answered "No." She looked at me confused. I told her we use the "Gentle Discipline" method. She looked at me like I was nuts and like she did not understand what I was talking about. Another thing I do not like is every time they come here they want to inspect my bedroom and my children's bedrooms. Do I have to let them look at those areas? I feel my privacy is violated when someone wants to go through my sleeping space. My children are uncomfortable with it also. I'm starting to feel like these people will never go away.

 

So here are my questions:

  1. Do I have to let them inspect our bedrooms?
  2. Is this harassment?
  3. Do I have a legal case agaisnt them?
  4. Has anyone dealt with them before when they wouldn't stop harassing and quite frankly being a pain in the ass over every little tiny thing?
  5. How can I get them to just leave me alone?
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#2 of 16 Old 08-19-2012, 03:29 PM
 
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What county? I'm suing cps in luzerne county bc they just investigated for 2 months without a legal cause. They'd complain about things like crayon on the wall and my ugly flooring that looks dirty when its clean. I rent, I can't do anything about the floor but they'd come out every week and tell me to clean it. More than once they made my parents take my kids because my house was "dirty". They of course were talking about the clean kitchen floor, the fact that my children have a lot of toys (that were put away of course) that I wasn't willing to throw in the garbage, and my "clutter". We are 5 people in a 2 bedroom apartment, we have space issues so there's some clutter but its hardly a safety issue.

One day, the social worker saw a small pile of toys because the kids were playing and she said, "you need to get that cleaned up because on the event of a fire, Logan could trip over a toy, fall on the floor and knock himself unconscious". Apparently only one of my kids was at risk for that. Yes, she was seriously complaining about a very small mess of toys- in their bedroom. Something that is found at one time or another in any house with kids!

They told me that there was no open case but that they were investigating me to see if a case needed to be opened. Every week, unnanounced (sometimes at 8:30 in the morning), for 2 months. They never actually found anything but they were mean and were nitpicking.

They made me sign hipaa release forms for the kids and then spoke to all their doctors. They questioned why we don't vax and felt it was important to notate that ds3 still nurses. That stuff was irrelevant to the report.

They forced me to sign up for a program that will help me parent purely because they don't agree with my ap style of parenting. I am, according to them, to enforce strict eating times and rigid bedtimes. BTW I'm also not allowed, according to them, to let my children eat anywhere but the kitchen table, despite the fact that my floors are clean and there is no food mess anywhere.

They also almost got me evicted because one of them made a scene in my driveway while my landlord was out there. When she left, the landlord flipped out on me and threatened to kick me out (bc he's worried about his image).

It was based on a false report that my house was dirty and cps found nothing to substantiate it when they came out the next day. They found nothing (other than occasionally I hadn't run my vacuum for the day yet) any time they showed up but still kept coming. At one point, they were coming out twice a week.

They also went and inspected my parents home to make sure it was clean and safe, even though no report against them was ever filed.

I have a recording of one workers aide telling my mom that the house was dirty on a day she did not come in and couldn't possibly know what condition it was in. It was clean mind you, but o had a bad toothache and didn't want to deal with her. The same tooth got root canaled a few days later...just for an idea of how much pain I was in. She was also trying to find out if my mom had the kids that day bc she "didnt hear them" from the porch. My mom did have them but they could have been playing quietly or sleeping bc it was 8:30 am....

Here's some info, they are bound by the 4th ammendment. This means hat you do not have to let them in. However, if you stand up for yourself, they get worse. My lawyer advised cooperating but taking notes.

Feel free to pm me for more info.
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#3 of 16 Old 08-20-2012, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Tioga County. That's what Tioga county is doing to me, they complain about stuff like the living room light falling off the ceiling. I rent also, and I'm not an electrician and niether is my husband, so we can't just go messing with the wires and stuff to try to fix it. I have ugly carpet too, it's a dark blue with like a white color in it, so it looks dirty when it's not. My kids have alot of toys too, I just put most of them up yesterday so they don't have very many downstaris now until these people are gone then they can have as many as they want down stairs. There are 6 of us in a smaller sized three bedroom apartment, I know how you feel with space. I have some clutter too, who doesn't? I know not one person who can say that they don't have any type of clutter what so ever. Um Okay? In the event of no fire my kids could trip over thier own feet and knock themselves unconscious, what do toys have to do with it? Bruises on my kids is apparently another issue, they are clumsy what can I do about it? My almost 2 year old laughs so hard standing in one place that she literally falls over. Nothing I can do about it. Every 2 weeks when they come here to my house, they want to see the bedrooms every single time. The only mess that is ever in there, is clothes that my trhee year old throws out of her drawers onto the floor while looking for something that she wants. It's not like it takes more than five minutes to clean them up again. The piece inside of the doorknob on my bathroom door that makes the handle spin is broken we we have to break into the bathroom with a card or a butterknife, not my problem to fix it, that's the landlord's responsibility. And I don't know how to fix it, and my husband has weird work hours so he has no time at all to fix it. They won't answer my questions on why my case is open. I have asked the caseworkers coming here, I have asked the supervisor. Nobody wants to tell me. They have came here as early as 8:30 in the morning. I'm not one of these people that jumps out of bed at 6 am with a big smile on my face. If my kids sleep until 8am, your damn right I get up at 8 am. I have a teething 11 month old baby, so yeah nights I don't get to bed until 1 or 2 am I sleep in if the kids do. The mean and nit picky thing is what really pisses me off. There is no reason to be like that toward someone. My kids are vaxed but I do thiers late. So my almost 2 year old still hasn't had her 1 year shots yet, and I'm assuming that is going to be a concern or an issue. My kids hardly ever eat out in the kitchen, if it starts in the kitchen it ends in the living room either on the couch or on the floor in front of the tv. I don't have a food mess either, It is cleaned up and shampooed either that night or the very next morning depending on time. I have a neighbor that lives below me, she has her Social Work degree, she is in grad school. She doesn't want to work with children and youth. But she told me it's ridiculous how much they are messing with me, and she told me to feel free any time they are here to go get her and she will come up here. It makes me feel better to know that other people have dealt with thier harassment and bullying too. They want us to do some program too, like a homemaker thing because they don't like my discipline style, which makes no sense at all because it works. They dont like it either that the kids have set meal and bedtimes. The only time I change meal times around is if they take a nap around that time for some reason, then yeah it's hard to get a kid to eat lunch or dinner if they are crashed out on the couch.

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Originally Posted by DBassett View Post

What county? I'm suing cps in luzerne county bc they just investigated for 2 months without a legal cause. They'd complain about things like crayon on the wall and my ugly flooring that looks dirty when its clean. I rent, I can't do anything about the floor but they'd come out every week and tell me to clean it. More than once they made my parents take my kids because my house was "dirty". They of course were talking about the clean kitchen floor, the fact that my children have a lot of toys (that were put away of course) that I wasn't willing to throw in the garbage, and my "clutter". We are 5 people in a 2 bedroom apartment, we have space issues so there's some clutter but its hardly a safety issue.
One day, the social worker saw a small pile of toys because the kids were playing and she said, "you need to get that cleaned up because on the event of a fire, Logan could trip over a toy, fall on the floor and knock himself unconscious". Apparently only one of my kids was at risk for that. Yes, she was seriously complaining about a very small mess of toys- in their bedroom. Something that is found at one time or another in any house with kids!
They told me that there was no open case but that they were investigating me to see if a case needed to be opened. Every week, unnanounced (sometimes at 8:30 in the morning), for 2 months. They never actually found anything but they were mean and were nitpicking.
They made me sign hipaa release forms for the kids and then spoke to all their doctors. They questioned why we don't vax and felt it was important to notate that ds3 still nurses. That stuff was irrelevant to the report.
They forced me to sign up for a program that will help me parent purely because they don't agree with my ap style of parenting. I am, according to them, to enforce strict eating times and rigid bedtimes. BTW I'm also not allowed, according to them, to let my children eat anywhere but the kitchen table, despite the fact that my floors are clean and there is no food mess anywhere.
They also almost got me evicted because one of them made a scene in my driveway while my landlord was out there. When she left, the landlord flipped out on me and threatened to kick me out (bc he's worried about his image).
It was based on a false report that my house was dirty and cps found nothing to substantiate it when they came out the next day. They found nothing (other than occasionally I hadn't run my vacuum for the day yet) any time they showed up but still kept coming. At one point, they were coming out twice a week.
They also went and inspected my parents home to make sure it was clean and safe, even though no report against them was ever filed.
I have a recording of one workers aide telling my mom that the house was dirty on a day she did not come in and couldn't possibly know what condition it was in. It was clean mind you, but o had a bad toothache and didn't want to deal with her. The same tooth got root canaled a few days later...just for an idea of how much pain I was in. She was also trying to find out if my mom had the kids that day bc she "didnt hear them" from the porch. My mom did have them but they could have been playing quietly or sleeping bc it was 8:30 am....
Here's some info, they are bound by the 4th ammendment. This means hat you do not have to let them in. However, if you stand up for yourself, they get worse. My lawyer advised cooperating but taking notes.
Feel free to pm me for more info.
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#4 of 16 Old 08-20-2012, 12:55 PM
 
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Yeah they're ridiculous.  They kept trying to tell me that if my husband couldn't help with the kids then they might have to remove them because I clearly couldn't keep up with everything on my own.  DH was working 7pm to 7am on a rotating schedule so he was pretty much sleeping when he was home.  I was basically all alone and all they could find in here was minor stuff like what I mentioned before so I think I was doing a pretty good job keeping up with everything on my own.  Plus, I'm pregnant (they never knew that) so I'm tired and nauseous a lot.

I asked the worker's aide the one day, "do you have a child with special needs?" and she actually said, "yes, my son is ADD and my house was always clean".  My brother is ADHD and I hardly classify that as a "special need".  My son has multiple food allergies, eosinophilic esophagitis, and a rather significant cognitive delay that also impacts his behavior.  When he was evaluated, instead of measuring at 5 years of age, he measured at < 3 years...so it's basically like having 2 toddlers here.  He's an absolute sweetheart but it doesn't change the fact that caring for him is challenging.  The EE causes a lot of vomiting and constipation (which means a lot of pain) for him and a lot of cleaning for me.  He has to take a laxative every single day which means he has frequent accidents and wears pullups.  The pain means that he refuses to use the toilet sometimes because he's most comfortable having a bowel movement while curled in a ball.  His GI and pediatrician have no advice for us other than to keep trying because eventually, he'll prefer to use the toilet- when he's more developmentally mature/when he feels better- whichever comes first.  This is my life every day and she tried to compare it to having a child with ADD and tried to say that I need to be doing a better job at cleaning up.  Offended is not the word for what I felt.

Right this minute, my floor is a bit of a mess (kids were playing), I need to mop the kitchen and wash the dishes.  Oh and I have some laundry to fold. It's not like it's filthy in here but they'd have a field day with it, I'm sure.  Instead of doing those things, I've spent the day so far nauseous (I suspect HG but I don't know much about it), breaking up multiple fights between DS2 & DS3, changing 2 kids, pleading with DS3 to wear a cloth diaper instead of one of his brother's Goodnights and trying to get DS2 to stop trying to wash the dishes (read: flood the kitchen).  Now I have to go fix them lunch (which will make me sick), try to feed myself, make some phone calls, and then if there is not another crisis to avert, I'll get the other stuff done.  If not, DH can do it when he gets home from work since his new job allows for him to be around more. :)

I dare one of those social workers to live my life for a day and then tell me that my house should be spotless.


The lawyer said they had no business contacting my parents at all and they had no business inspecting their home. That was definitely an illegal search but that means nothing to these people.  Every time I told them they weren't welcome here and that their barging in anyway was a violation of my 4th amendment rights, they kept claiming that people working in a child welfare capacity are exempt from that law.  I talked to the lawyer about it and she confirmed that they are indeed bound by the 4th- as all government entities are.  I kept telling them that every time they showed up and the one day, the worker's aide said, "Well, I don't know anything about the law!" and then announced loudly that she was taking that as a refusal of entry, stormed down the stairs (I followed her to tell her she was being ridiculous) and she started yelling at me in front of the landlord, which of course made him angry.

One of them also told the landlord that we "weren't improving"  (weren't improving what exactly?)...even after telling me that they're not allowed to disclose any information to him. 

The lawyer also told me that while they technically are allowed 60 days to investigate, if after 30 they haven't found anything, they're supposed to go away.  Also, I was supposed to have to sign a safety plan every time they made my parents take the kids and they not only didn't do it, they told me that it didn't apply because they were my parents and they already babysit from time to time. (This is not true).

Pretty much everything they did, the lawyer said they can't do.  When I told them this, they got angry and meaner.  I also know a social worker that works with Children and youth  in Lycoming county and she agreed with everything the lawyer said. Of course, they are such a messed up organization that she said if she were to step forward and report them or defend us, she'd lose her job!

I'm not a sue happy person but these people spent 2 months torturing us and sending my nursing toddler away for sometimes a week at a time.  While our 60 days are up and they can't bother us again, I'm angry and these people are going to pay for all the trouble they put us through.  I'm also afraid that they're going to try to show up anyway and of course, since now their presence is completely illegal, they can't come in..and I'm afraid that they'll force their way in and take my kids.  I have an anxiety disorder so I spent 2 months in a constant panic because of them and I'm still living in fear.  Every time I hear a thump or any kind of noise, I get panicky and think they're here.  They're not going to just get away with that.

Also, it's important to note that while they had no business being here in the first place (the report they received was illegal- long story), I cooperated and jumped through their hoops at first.  Then I just couldn't take anymore of their nitpicking and I started to stand up for myself.  They were here several times, without finding anything, before I started pushing back.  

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#5 of 16 Old 08-20-2012, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
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Yeah they're ridiculous.  They kept trying to tell me that if my husband couldn't help with the kids then they might have to remove them because I clearly couldn't keep up with everything on my own.  DH was working 7pm to 7am on a rotating schedule so he was pretty much sleeping when he was home.  I was basically all alone and all they could find in here was minor stuff like what I mentioned before so I think I was doing a pretty good job keeping up with everything on my own.  Plus, I'm pregnant (they never knew that) so I'm tired and nauseous a lot.
My husband works 10pm to 7am so most of the time he is home is spent sleeping also. I'm basically all alone too so I understand where your coming from. I'm not goin to lie, it's a challenge to keep up with dishes, toys, laundry. When your only one person and out numbered by kids but that doesn't mean we can't do it.
I asked the worker's aide the one day, "do you have a child with special needs?" and she actually said, "yes, my son is ADD and my house was always clean".  My brother is ADHD and I hardly classify that as a "special need".  My son has multiple food allergies, eosinophilic esophagitis, and a rather significant cognitive delay that also impacts his behavior.  When he was evaluated, instead of measuring at 5 years of age, he measured at < 3 years...so it's basically like having 2 toddlers here.  He's an absolute sweetheart but it doesn't change the fact that caring for him is challenging.  The EE causes a lot of vomiting and constipation (which means a lot of pain) for him and a lot of cleaning for me.  He has to take a laxative every single day which means he has frequent accidents and wears pullups.  The pain means that he refuses to use the toilet sometimes because he's most comfortable having a bowel movement while curled in a ball.  His GI and pediatrician have no advice for us other than to keep trying because eventually, he'll prefer to use the toilet- when he's more developmentally mature/when he feels better- whichever comes first.  This is my life every day and she tried to compare it to having a child with ADD and tried to say that I need to be doing a better job at cleaning up.  Offended is not the word for what I felt.
Even children without special needs aren't easy to clean up after nor take care of lol. That doesn't make us bad parents it makes us human. Everyone has messes, nobody's house is completely clean 100% of the time so they can kiss my ass. I'm sorry your son has those problems, I send my hugs and hopes that it starts to get better for him.
Right this minute, my floor is a bit of a mess (kids were playing), I need to mop the kitchen and wash the dishes.  Oh and I have some laundry to fold. It's not like it's filthy in here but they'd have a field day with it, I'm sure.  Instead of doing those things, I've spent the day so far nauseous (I suspect HG but I don't know much about it), breaking up multiple fights between DS2 & DS3, changing 2 kids, pleading with DS3 to wear a cloth diaper instead of one of his brother's Goodnights and trying to get DS2 to stop trying to wash the dishes (read: flood the kitchen).  Now I have to go fix them lunch (which will make me sick), try to feed myself, make some phone calls, and then if there is not another crisis to avert, I'll get the other stuff done.  If not, DH can do it when he gets home from work since his new job allows for him to be around more. :)
The floor here is a mess too right at this minute, kids have some toys out, they have diapers out, and for some reason they are folding my dirty laundry. I have some dishes to do and the kitchen floor needs moped here too. Breaking up fights is endless lol. Changing kids seems endless. Oh I understand completely this is a normal day right there lol. And there is nothing wrong with any of that either, they just need a nice smack up side the head.
I dare one of those social workers to live my life for a day and then tell me that my house should be spotless.


The lawyer said they had no business contacting my parents at all and they had no business inspecting their home. That was definitely an illegal search but that means nothing to these people.  Every time I told them they weren't welcome here and that their barging in anyway was a violation of my 4th amendment rights, they kept claiming that people working in a child welfare capacity are exempt from that law.  I talked to the lawyer about it and she confirmed that they are indeed bound by the 4th- as all government entities are.  I kept telling them that every time they showed up and the one day, the worker's aide said, "Well, I don't know anything about the law!" and then announced loudly that she was taking that as a refusal of entry, stormed down the stairs (I followed her to tell her she was being ridiculous) and she started yelling at me in front of the landlord, which of course made him angry.

One of them also told the landlord that we "weren't improving"  (weren't improving what exactly?)...even after telling me that they're not allowed to disclose any information to him. 

The lawyer also told me that while they technically are allowed 60 days to investigate, if after 30 they haven't found anything, they're supposed to go away.  Also, I was supposed to have to sign a safety plan every time they made my parents take the kids and they not only didn't do it, they told me that it didn't apply because they were my parents and they already babysit from time to time. (This is not true).
This part really stands out to me, because we have been open for not only 60 days but over 4 months now. 4 Months! And they won't tell us what they supposedly found, or anything they all talk in circles to us.
Pretty much everything they did, the lawyer said they can't do.  When I told them this, they got angry and meaner.  I also know a social worker that works with Children and youth  in Lycoming county and she agreed with everything the lawyer said. Of course, they are such a messed up organization that she said if she were to step forward and report them or defend us, she'd lose her job!

I'm not a sue happy person but these people spent 2 months torturing us and sending my nursing toddler away for sometimes a week at a time.  While our 60 days are up and they can't bother us again, I'm angry and these people are going to pay for all the trouble they put us through.  I'm also afraid that they're going to try to show up anyway and of course, since now their presence is completely illegal, they can't come in..and I'm afraid that they'll force their way in and take my kids.  I have an anxiety disorder so I spent 2 months in a constant panic because of them and I'm still living in fear.  Every time I hear a thump or any kind of noise, I get panicky and think they're here.  They're not going to just get away with that.
They have spent four months torturing us now, my husband and I barely argued about anything and now it seems like every time i turn around I'm biting his head off over something stupid or he's doing it to me, they stress people out so much it's not even realistic. I'm scared that since they haven't gone away after four months that they are going to try to pull some sneaky BS and remove my kids or something. I have a day here or there where it's screw the dishes and whatever it's a play day! but last time I knew that wasn't illegal.
Also, it's important to note that while they had no business being here in the first place (the report they received was illegal- long story), I cooperated and jumped through their hoops at first.  Then I just couldn't take anymore of their nitpicking and I started to stand up for myself.  They were here several times, without finding anything, before I started pushing back.  

I was very nice at first too. Until Friday I lost my crap on Friday. I let them have it good. I even asked the two caseworkers that were here at my home to leave three times. and they woudln't leave they didn't leave until my husband woke up and came downstairs to use the bathroom, he let them have it, and they left. I don't know how much more of this I can take.

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#6 of 16 Old 08-20-2012, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Well today stuff got even more interesting. I talked to a supervisor on the phone about why my case is open. She told me that there have been many reports made about my husband and I which were: Diry floors (4 kids under 4 nothing more than kid messes I don't see how that's dirty) My dog (She is a big baby) my parenting (Um ok?) and my stepsons transition with living with us. She told me that if we don't cooperate with the homemaking program they want to refer us to that our case will be open for a lot longer, and if thier concerns are not allieveated they will take it to court and try to remove my children. I called my lawyer but she didn't answer so I have to wait until tomorrow.... I can't even think straight right now, I don't know what to do... I don't know what to think...

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These people are evil. Once, in my entire life, I've seen them actually help somebody.

A kid in my sons school stabbed somebody but the mom still has custody of her child and my parenting (and yours) is being questioned? They shouldn't be allowed tp investigate of they can't find a real problem after a short time. It's a waste of resourcese.

I had yet another nightmare tonight about them. I know pregnancy causes weird dreams but I keep dreaming that these people are here again.

I hope your lawyer gets back to you soon.
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#8 of 16 Old 08-21-2012, 06:03 AM
 
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Pr3tty - sounds like they are being hard asses about this but other than the dog, it sounds like an easy fix.  Sometimes with foster to adopt (yes, I know it's different but from their viewpoint - it's the same), you just have to play their games.  As far as the dog is concerned... is there a family member or friend who can take it until you get this all is over with?  One less stress producer - kwim?

 

A dear friend of mine is dealing with CPS in Philadelphia due to some stuff her daughter said to a school counselor (basically attention seeking - nothing true but it triggered an investigation).  From what she's told me, it's been a blessing in disguise and her daughter is getting some help with some emotional stuff that they just couldn't find a resource for due to CHIP not having enough child psychs in the area.

 

Wishing you much luck.


Walking to raise money for Apraxia - feel free to join me if you are in the area or donate http://www.apraxia-kids.org/southjerseywalk/juliefoxx
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#9 of 16 Old 08-21-2012, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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no i dont have anyone that can take my dog thats what scares me

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Pr3tty - sounds like they are being hard asses about this but other than the dog, it sounds like an easy fix.  Sometimes with foster to adopt (yes, I know it's different but from their viewpoint - it's the same), you just have to play their games.  As far as the dog is concerned... is there a family member or friend who can take it until you get this all is over with?  One less stress producer - kwim?

 

A dear friend of mine is dealing with CPS in Philadelphia due to some stuff her daughter said to a school counselor (basically attention seeking - nothing true but it triggered an investigation).  From what she's told me, it's been a blessing in disguise and her daughter is getting some help with some emotional stuff that they just couldn't find a resource for due to CHIP not having enough child psychs in the area.

 

Wishing you much luck.

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#10 of 16 Old 08-21-2012, 11:41 AM
 
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She shouldn't have to get rid of the dog and I don't recommend it at all.  They will try to twist it and say that she didn't trust the dog and shouldn't have had it there in the first place.

That is exactly what they tried to do to me.  They tried to say that my kids were at my parents because they didn't want to be home- even though in the last 2 months, my kids were primarily at my parents because they kept telling me to send them there (illegally and without cause).  My parents do watch my boys anyway but it's because they all enjoy visiting.  They used to live 5 hours away so now that they live closer, they're getting as much time with their grandchildren as they can- there's nothing wrong with that but they still tried to twist things around.

 

CPS has mutated from an organization that was meant to help people into this group that occasionally helps someone but primarily seeks to remove kids.  Our family friend that works for CYS in Lycoming county said that some of her coworkers go into homes with the intentions of removing kids before the investigation even begins.  CYS in my county has been sued for removing children without cause numerous times.  In the US, we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty but the moment CPS becomes involved, we're automatically guilty.

My situation literally just got worse as I was typing this!  I have anxiety problems.  It's not anything that affects my parenting but because I don't trust people (learned response from bad experiences), I can't hold a job for very long.  I sought therapy myself before these people came into our lives.  They forced me to sign a release so they could speak to my therapist which is counterproductive anyway.  How am I supposed to trust a therapist that I know I do not have a confidentiality agreement with anymore? My therapist just called to tell me that because I ended our sessions, she has to notify CYS.  She said that they required this of her- I'm not sure how much I believe that they can do that.  She said the form they had her sign is good for a year.  The case is closed out but they're still able to receive my personal information for the next year?!?!?  I ended my therapy because DH started a new job last week and because of a change in insurance, I can't see her anymore.  I can't afford to pay out of pocket ($120 a week) so I terminated my care.  I didn't have any choice in the matter.

We were being "investigated".  There was never an open case whatsoever.  They have a 60 day maximum for "investigations" and that ended Monday (of last week).  According to their own policy, if a decision is not made whether or not to open a case within 60 days, it is automatically closed out.  They are no longer allowed to come out to my home.  I am afraid that now they're going to restart the clock and investigate us all over again because of something that is simply a change of insurance.  It may sound very paranoid to someone who has never had to deal with them but for those of us who have been harassed,  we know that this is a very real possibility.
 

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#11 of 16 Old 08-21-2012, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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She shouldn't have to get rid of the dog and I don't recommend it at all.  They will try to twist it and say that she didn't trust the dog and shouldn't have had it there in the first place.
I agree I shouldn't have to get rid of my dog. I know she is cranky around kids and doesn't care for them very much. that is why my dog and children are sepearted. My dog does not have the slightest chance to be mean to one of my kids. If I felt that my dog was a threat to my kids, I would have gotten rid of her three years ago. The reason they are sepearated is purely because 4 kids, 1 dog, and 1 of me. I can't be on top of all of them at the same time to make sure nobody is being mean to the dog, or that the dog isn't being possessive over a ball or whatever. I love having my dog because of my husbands work hours, I feel bad for the smarty pants that decides to break into my home, I know that she will protect the kids and myself if it comes down to it. I feel alot more secure and safe with having her than I did when I didn't have her.
That is exactly what they tried to do to me.  They tried to say that my kids were at my parents because they didn't want to be home- even though in the last 2 months, my kids were primarily at my parents because they kept telling me to send them there (illegally and without cause).  My parents do watch my boys anyway but it's because they all enjoy visiting.  They used to live 5 hours away so now that they live closer, they're getting as much time with their grandchildren as they can- there's nothing wrong with that but they still tried to twist things around.

This right here ^^ is what I have been worried about them trying to do to me. I feel really guilty about it right now as I'm typing this, but I have severly limited how much time my kids spend away from me because this thought has always terrified me. Please, don't take that the wrong way I agree there is nothing wrong with grandparents spending as much time with thier grandchildren as possible, I absolutely agree with you. The thought that they can say this stuff, and take action like that over nothing is absolutely terrifying.

CPS has mutated from an organization that was meant to help people into this group that occasionally helps someone but primarily seeks to remove kids.  Our family friend that works for CYS in Lycoming county said that some of her coworkers go into homes with the intentions of removing kids before the investigation even begins.  CYS in my county has been sued for removing children without cause numerous times.  In the US, we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty but the moment CPS becomes involved, we're automatically guilty.
I agree. It's effin ridiculous. The first day that cps came here because of a report they got, the kids had just gotten done eating breakfast, I was literally just starting to clean it up. They made a big deal out of scrambled egg being on the kitchen floor. I let the hubby deal with them and kept cleaning it. They obviously know I clean and kids are messy when they eat. When mostly my daughters are done eating, if I don't get thier plate away from them in time, they throw whatever is left all over the kitchen floor. Which is fine, broom + dustpan = clean lol but that was a big deal to them, here I thought it was normal maybe I'm not normal then :) Another thing they are making a big deal out of is the last time they were here, the kids had dumped a bag of my doritos out all over the floor in my living room, guess that's what I get for walking away to get myself a drink, They had also dumped a big bag of cheeseballs and squished them into the carpet. Not a big deal to me either, I have a vacuum. So I was picking up the cheeseballs before i vacuumed up all the crunchy crap from it. That's when they got here, and apparently that means that my carpet is dirty. Um no it's not dirty I have KIDS. I don't know what part of that they don't understand.
My situation literally just got worse as I was typing this!  I have anxiety problems.  It's not anything that affects my parenting but because I don't trust people (learned response from bad experiences), I can't hold a job for very long.  I sought therapy myself before these people came into our lives.  They forced me to sign a release so they could speak to my therapist which is counterproductive anyway.  How am I supposed to trust a therapist that I know I do not have a confidentiality agreement with anymore? My therapist just called to tell me that because I ended our sessions, she has to notify CYS.  She said that they required this of her- I'm not sure how much I believe that they can do that.  She said the form they had her sign is good for a year.  The case is closed out but they're still able to receive my personal information for the next year?!?!?  I ended my therapy because DH started a new job last week and because of a change in insurance, I can't see her anymore.  I can't afford to pay out of pocket ($120 a week) so I terminated my care.  I didn't have any choice in the matter.
I have been thinking about seeking therapy for myself but I probably won't know if they can talk to the thearapist. That's ridiculous. I wouldn't be able to trust a therapist when there is no confidentiality either. Anyone that would is out of thier mind! Yeah that makes no sense at all why it's closed but yet they are still able to recieve your personal information for the next year. I would not have been very nice about it.... lol.
We were being "investigated".  There was never an open case whatsoever.  They have a 60 day maximum for "investigations" and that ended Monday (of last week).  According to their own policy, if a decision is not made whether or not to open a case within 60 days, it is automatically closed out.  They are no longer allowed to come out to my home.  I am afraid that now they're going to restart the clock and investigate us all over again because of something that is simply a change of insurance.  It may sound very paranoid to someone who has never had to deal with them but for those of us who have been harassed,  we know that this is a very real possibility.
Oh no I don't think your being paranoid at all. Hell, i started a journal of writing down every thing that i've cleaned and how long it took me every time i clean something so they can't say I don't do it. Now that sounds crazy to me just reading that as i typed it.... I think another problem with all this harassment is my age. My husband is 31 years old, and I'm only 23 I'm younger than thier litle sidekick trainees. I think that is part of thier problem with me is because they don't think at 23 I can handle the responsibility of four kids, a dog, myself and my husband. Little do they know, my father was an alcoholic abusive jerk, my mother worked all the time so she didn't have to be home to deal with it. So the responsibilities of my little brother and sister fell on who? Oh yeah, me. When I was only 8-9 years old I was cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, changing diapers, you name it I did it. I had to grow up fast that has nothing to do with my age and maturity. I got married to my husband when I was 19... because I wanted to.. I don't feel that any of that is thier business, and my age is ridiculous. I would much rather be at home with my kids playing and dancing around like a moron making a complete jackass out of myself just for them to laugh and giggle than to be doing what most people my age are doing. I don't go out, I don't drink, I'm not on any drugs, I smoke but I do outside I don't smoke in my car, I don't smoke around my kids, but yeah I'm apparently a safety hazard to them... hmm... Just because I'm not 50 and just starting to have children doesn't mean I don't know anything. I wish they would realize that.

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#12 of 16 Old 08-21-2012, 01:03 PM
 
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I think you are probably right about the age.  The supervisor that was out here told DH and I that we are "just babies" when she found out that we're 26.  She was super nice so I didn't take offense to the comment but it did occur to me that perhaps the social workers themselves did look down on us for being 26 and having 3 kiddos- one of which is 10.  I think the knowledge that I was a teen mom, and that DH is not his bio dad also affected their behavior.  I also think, for us, our income has a lot to do with why they were bothering us so much.  We are low income through no choice of our own.  I was fired a week after having a miscarriage (yay for ethics!) and neither of us could find a decent paying job since then.  We can't afford childcare (and for childcare assistance they require 4 paystubs before they will even put you on the wait list :eek) so we can't both work.  This means that we'd get halfway to DH's next paycheck and be out of money.  We paid bills in order of who was shutting off what first.  DH was working 60 hour weeks (12 hours each night) while still trying to find a better job.

Being poor doesn't mean we're bad people.  I'm thankful that his new job kind of just fell into his lap last week because it's more than twice what he was earning.  That means that once we're caught up on bills, money can't be an issue for children and youth anymore.

and I do believe it was a factor because every time they were out here, they asked about his job and whether we had paid our bills.  The report was about a supposed dirty house.  Why did our financial information matter? Furthermore, why did our medical information matter either? The only thing that should have mattered was my house, which was clean- just not to their extremely high standards.

Oh, I didn't mention this before but they actually said something to me about the my stained carpets. Not dirty- STAINED.  I have a child who spent most of his life vomiting if you so much as looked at him cross-eyed.  My beige carpets have suffered.  Boohoo.  They've been shampooed Idk how many times. Stained and dirty are not the same thing.  Stained carpets are none of CPS's business.  That is between me and my landlord.

I still can't get over the fact that you have an open case and they come out biweekly but I didn't even have a case- I was just being investigated and they were here every week, sometimes twice a week!  I can't understand how they find stuff like that acceptable.

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#13 of 16 Old 08-21-2012, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think you are probably right about the age.  The supervisor that was out here told DH and I that we are "just babies" when she found out that we're 26.  She was super nice so I didn't take offense to the comment but it did occur to me that perhaps the social workers themselves did look down on us for being 26 and having 3 kiddos- one of which is 10.  I think the knowledge that I was a teen mom, and that DH is not his bio dad also affected their behavior.  I also think, for us, our income has a lot to do with why they were bothering us so much.  We are low income through no choice of our own.  I was fired a week after having a miscarriage (yay for ethics!) and neither of us could find a decent paying job since then.  We can't afford childcare (and for childcare assistance they require 4 paystubs before they will even put you on the wait list :eek) so we can't both work.  This means that we'd get halfway to DH's next paycheck and be out of money.  We paid bills in order of who was shutting off what first.  DH was working 60 hour weeks (12 hours each night) while still trying to find a better job.
That's most of the reason I'm a stay at home mom, husband's job only pays $11.20 an hour, so it's not like we have a whole lot of money. It's enough to pay rent, other bills, groceries, diapers, etc, but after we get his paycheck and buy everything we need and food, we don't have anything left hardly. Child care for four children is just ridiculous. It's so stupid how they compare everything with age, it's just a number. Being a teen mom doesn't mean anything, it just means you got to enjoy your child at a younger age and have more time with them :) At least we are young enough to keep up with them haha
Being poor doesn't mean we're bad people.  I'm thankful that his new job kind of just fell into his lap last week because it's more than twice what he was earning.  That means that once we're caught up on bills, money can't be an issue for children and youth anymore.
No it doesn't mean that we are bad people at all. They keep talking down to me, just because I do not have a high school diploma, or a college education doesn't mean that they are any better than I am. No one is perfect. I never claimed to be.
and I do believe it was a factor because every time they were out here, they asked about his job and whether we had paid our bills.  The report was about a supposed dirty house.  Why did our financial information matter? Furthermore, why did our medical information matter either? The only thing that should have mattered was my house, which was clean- just not to their extremely high standards.
I don't understand that either. Because every time they come here they ask us about our finances too. We have a place to live, we have electric, we have cleaning supplies, diapers, toilet paper, shampoo, everything nessecary. We just don't have an over abundance of money like those people do. I don't understand where the medical information matters either. I haven't figured that out yet.
Oh, I didn't mention this before but they actually said something to me about the my stained carpets. Not dirty- STAINED.  I have a child who spent most of his life vomiting if you so much as looked at him cross-eyed.  My beige carpets have suffered.  Boohoo.  They've been shampooed Idk how many times. Stained and dirty are not the same thing.  Stained carpets are none of CPS's business.  That is between me and my landlord.
Exactly! They are complaining about stuff like that with me too! There are a few stains in our carpet that have been there since we moved in here, I have shampooed those several times too, and it won't come out. They are also concerned about fingernail polish that is all over my daughter's bedroom walls. That was also there before we moved in, if they don't believe me they can have my landlord's phone number and take it up with him.
I still can't get over the fact that you have an open case and they come out biweekly but I didn't even have a case- I was just being investigated and they were here every week, sometimes twice a week!  I can't understand how they find stuff like that acceptable.

Oh neither can I. I was actually thinking about that today when I was picking up the kid's toys. It makes no sense at all to harass and bash the people that are doing thier best and the best for their children, but people that abuse the living crap out of thier kids it takes forever to have them removed. My stepson wasn't removed from my husband's ex, until TWO YEARS after the case was opened and the investigation started on her. It took 2 years for them to figure out that him leaving bruises on a baby's face because he was crying was unacceptable, it took them 2 years to figure out that smacking my stepsons face off the wall repeatedly was unacceptable, pushing a pillow into a baby's face because he was teething and in pain, jumping on my stepsons back when he was laying on the couch, pushing into his ex's oldest child's chest with such force causing him to pass out, threatening the children's lives with assualt rifles, the list goes on and on...

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#14 of 16 Old 08-22-2012, 05:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I found an advocate in Tioga County who works with people that cps is doing this stuff to. She agreed to help me, she is not happy by any means that cps is doing this stuff to my family, and she is severly angry that they threatened us with taking all of our children away. She is going to be here at my home tomorrow afternoon, so I will let you know how it goes.

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#15 of 16 Old 08-23-2012, 04:05 PM
 
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Good luck!  I may need to find a different lawyer because this one, while she has 20+ years experience with dealing with CPS doesn't seem interested in staying in regular contact with me.  I almost feel as if I have to beg her to take this case- even though she said herself that they were harassing me and "just jerking me around".  She acknowledged more than once that they can't do what they've done to me but she takes forever to return calls and then the last time she called me back, she said "I can't do anything about it right now, can I call you back in a half hour?" and then never called back.  She has kids so I'm trying to be understanding but it's very hard to believe that she's at all professional.

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#16 of 16 Old 08-27-2012, 08:01 PM
 
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It's really hard to find good lawyers. They are all overworked and underpaid if you have a court appointed lawyer. If you hire one, they generally view themselves as better than everyone. Look for advocates and people suing cps, they are great allies. They can typically tell you the best way to deal with these people.

 

Bureaucracy and perfectionism rule their lives. And, no one is perfect, least of all them. Definitely look up advocates and laws in your area.

 

http://facfightingcpspa.webs.com/
 

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