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#1 of 43 Old 09-29-2010, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Xposted on Birth and Beyond forum

Hi, I'm 32 weeks pregnant and I'll be avoiding the vit. k, eye ointment, and hep b shot. Here's a little background:

Our state only does religious exemption for newborn screening. After I spoke with the nurse from the state health dept. she said that they don't do exemptions for newborn screening and I need to go to the hospital where I'm delivering (IMC) to get the religious one. Then I explained to her further what I am trying to avoid and that the law in our state only does religious exemption for newborn screening. Then she said that I need to go to my local health dept. and get a religious exemption there, so now I'll be checking the hospital for an exemption and the local health dept here but I doubt the hospital would have it, I always thought you got those things at the health dept.


So my question is this: Is the religious exemption for newborn screening any different than a religious one for immunizations? I know that for the hepatitis B shot I can just refuse it.

TIA
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#2 of 43 Old 09-30-2010, 03:23 AM
 
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Did someone tell you that you needed an exemption for this? We didnt do any of that either, and no one at the hospital even batted an eye about it. We just said no, and no one even brought it up again.

Well we did do the Vitk, but at first we were NOT going to, and no one had a problem with us not doing it.. we changed our minds after Xav came out bc he was posterior and shot out like a freaking rocket, and he had a massive bone bruise on the top of his head, so we changed our minds to be safe. But we didnt do any shots, PKU, or eye goop.

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#3 of 43 Old 09-30-2010, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hey Melissa, which hospital did you deliver at? I'm delivering at IMC. The thing is I read online at this site http://www.vaclib.org/exempt/utah.htm that our state requires a religious exemption to not do those three things and the pku as well. Also last year when I had Landon his birth was a traumatic one so we did the vit. k (not knowing what we know now but now I'm glad we did) except we didn't want the hep B shot and they kept pressuring me so much that I finally just gave up, I was too weak to fight them and caved in to the shot. So now we're doing a birthing plan just to make sure that our wishes are met. I xposted this on the birth and beyond forum and a Utah mama said that when she had her son a couple years ago she wanted to avoid all three of these procedures and so they signed a waiver at the hospital and that was that. So I'm hoping it'll be as easy as that for us, just signing a waiver, but we'll see.
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#4 of 43 Old 09-30-2010, 01:48 PM
 
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I didnt even have to sign a waiver, or at least I dont remember doing so. I was at the U. I think they are pretty laid back there, no one cared that we didnt want him bathed and left his vernix on either, or anything else we did out of the norm.

Was this the hosp you had Landon at too. or is it going to be new to you? If they give you any grief, just keep saying no, or make it your husbands job to keep saying no, and dont let the LO out of your sight.

The U told us the only legally mandated thing in Utah is the hearing test, so we had that done and my husband went with Xavi and stayed with him the whole time. Even though they were great, I still didnt trust them, I've heard too many stories of babies taken away for tests, and coming back after having a shot or some other thing parents did not want (like that poor boy who was just circed against his parents wishes!!!)

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#5 of 43 Old 09-30-2010, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks Melissa. Yeah unfortunately it's the same one. For a while I didn't have a health care provider and we wanted to go with a midwife but we couldn't afford one and the U isn't covered in our insurance. (I've heard great things about them) my mom was a cna there at the nicu for a while and she loved it.

Anyway that's good to know. I don't want them bathing him or poking him. At least not in the first day. I'm still researching about pku testing and the benefits but I just think that poking and squeezing the heel is so harsh, and this time for sure not the hep b shot. The thing is my ob is fine with us refusing the hep b shot he just doesn't know yet that we also want to refuse the other things (I'm sure he wont care). Last year it was the nurse and the anesthesiologist that kept pressuring us. When I had Landon I made sure he roomed in with me at all times and I walked him to the hearing test. I don't trust them either but holy cow I've never heard of a baby boy being circed against his parents wishes. Wow was it here in Utah? Poor baby
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#6 of 43 Old 09-30-2010, 04:51 PM
 
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No, this recent one was in Florida There was another one a while back, where two babies/mamas were in one room, nurses took the babies for tests, and circ for one. They circed the wrong baby I read about that one while I was preg, and it freaked us out.

We did do the PKU, but not in the hospital. I totally agree its pretty harsh to do to a 1 day old nb. We had our Ped do it, and we only did it because I am hypothyroid, and one of the things the PKU tests is thyroid function, we needed to make sure his TH levels were ok bc mine were off.

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#7 of 43 Old 09-30-2010, 05:13 PM
 
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There was a baby in our mom/baby group that could not metabolize fat. It was a total shock to the parents. There was absolutely no family history to indicate this was even a remote possibility. It was found in the newborn screening. Had he not had that test he would have died. Through dietary changes he was flourishing the last time I saw him. He is the rare child that has any of the diseases they screen for. He is the child that justifies testing of seemingly healthy babies.

Genetic tests don't need to be traumatic. Just do it while they're nursing. Both my kids were tested that way and it was no big deal. Make sure they warm the heel before they poke then nurse away.

When my son was born and my daughter was adopted we did the expanded newborn screening. http://www.perkinelmergenetics.com/NewBornScreening.htm

It tests for more than 50 genetic diseases. It really bothers me that states don't mandate all the tests when genetic screening is done. There are children who will fall through the cracks because of that. What a shame.

My daughter received the hep b shot before we could get to her. The birthmom did not have prenatal care and was at risk for hep b. I think that is an appropriate use of the vaccine, to prevent hepatitis in a newborn. However, once we got back the mom's hepatitis results our daughter has had no more vaccines.

BTW, I hope the parents of the child circed filed a lawsuit. I think they should also press criminal charges for child abuse, sexual abuse, false imprisonment (tying the child down) etc. Child abuse must be stopped and people like that are in a position to make some headway.

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#8 of 43 Old 09-30-2010, 06:52 PM
 
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Genetic tests don't need to be traumatic. Just do it while they're nursing. Both my kids were tested that way and it was no big deal. Make sure they warm the heel before they poke then nurse away.
I nursed X for his PKU and when we checked his iron levels at 9 mo.

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BTW, I hope the parents of the child circed filed a lawsuit. I think they should also press criminal charges for child abuse, sexual abuse, false imprisonment (tying the child down) etc. Child abuse must be stopped and people like that are in a position to make some headway
They are, not sure exactly what all the charges are though... There is a big thread on it in the circ forum here. So so so sad though.

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#9 of 43 Old 09-30-2010, 09:02 PM
 
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Livia, I had Claire at IMC, you don't need any kind of exemption to decline those things. The only thing they gave us grief about was the PKU, which we wanted to do at our midwives, but we went ahead and did it at the hospital because they said something about how if we declined that then there was a chance our insurance wouldn't pay for anything blah blah blah because it was a law. We had them do it the last day we were there. We had one nurse that was really rude about stuff- "Ew, If we don't bathe her, then we have to wear gloves every time we touch her" "Um, I'm actually not asking for permission, I'm just telling you that we're doing a blood sugar test per our policy". We told the head nurse that we never wanted to see that girl again, and we didn't. Make sure your husband knows everything you want to decline and that he can say "NO!" if you feel pressured. If you get a lame nurse, ask for a new one. And don't let him out of your site! We even got charged for Hep B, but I KNEW that she didn't have it because she was with one of us at all times.

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#10 of 43 Old 10-01-2010, 02:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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No, this recent one was in Florida There was another one a while back, where two babies/mamas were in one room, nurses took the babies for tests, and circ for one. They circed the wrong baby I read about that one while I was preg, and it freaked us out.

We did do the PKU, but not in the hospital. I totally agree its pretty harsh to do to a 1 day old nb. We had our Ped do it, and we only did it because I am hypothyroid, and one of the things the PKU tests is thyroid function, we needed to make sure his TH levels were ok bc mine were off.
How sad . I'd be so livid if it were my baby. Anyway I'd like to do this test on my baby because after reading more about it would be a good one. I would love to do it at the ped's office while nursing him. I wonder if this hospital will be okay with that. Thanks for posting
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There was a baby in our mom/baby group that could not metabolize fat. It was a total shock to the parents. There was absolutely no family history to indicate this was even a remote possibility. It was found in the newborn screening. Had he not had that test he would have died. Through dietary changes he was flourishing the last time I saw him. He is the rare child that has any of the diseases they screen for. He is the child that justifies testing of seemingly healthy babies.

Genetic tests don't need to be traumatic. Just do it while they're nursing. Both my kids were tested that way and it was no big deal. Make sure they warm the heel before they poke then nurse away.

When my son was born and my daughter was adopted we did the expanded newborn screening. http://www.perkinelmergenetics.com/NewBornScreening.htm

It tests for more than 50 genetic diseases. It really bothers me that states don't mandate all the tests when genetic screening is done. There are children who will fall through the cracks because of that. What a shame.

My daughter received the hep b shot before we could get to her. The birthmom did not have prenatal care and was at risk for hep b. I think that is an appropriate use of the vaccine, to prevent hepatitis in a newborn. However, once we got back the mom's hepatitis results our daughter has had no more vaccines.

BTW, I hope the parents of the child circed filed a lawsuit. I think they should also press criminal charges for child abuse, sexual abuse, false imprisonment (tying the child down) etc. Child abuse must be stopped and people like that are in a position to make some headway.
Hey SundayCrepes how's it going? Thanks for posting and for the website. I'm still looking through it, very interesting. I definitely want to do the genetic testing while I'm nursing my baby. I still have some questions about it though since I'm still researching and learning about it. Yeah in your case it was good that they used the hep B vax, in my case they were really pushy with my first one and since I was in the middle of my cesarean still wide opened when they pressured me I had no strength left to fight them.

ETA: Forgot to ask, when you did the expanded genetic testing did you take a package from them with you to where you delivered or was the place affiliated with them?
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#12 of 43 Old 10-01-2010, 03:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Livia, I had Claire at IMC, you don't need any kind of exemption to decline those things. The only thing they gave us grief about was the PKU, which we wanted to do at our midwives, but we went ahead and did it at the hospital because they said something about how if we declined that then there was a chance our insurance wouldn't pay for anything blah blah blah because it was a law. We had them do it the last day we were there. We had one nurse that was really rude about stuff- "Ew, If we don't bathe her, then we have to wear gloves every time we touch her" "Um, I'm actually not asking for permission, I'm just telling you that we're doing a blood sugar test per our policy". We told the head nurse that we never wanted to see that girl again, and we didn't. Make sure your husband knows everything you want to decline and that he can say "NO!" if you feel pressured. If you get a lame nurse, ask for a new one. And don't let him out of your site! We even got charged for Hep B, but I KNEW that she didn't have it because she was with one of us at all times.
Thanks Brie. Yeah we had a really crappy nurse too (wonder if it was the same one) but we had no idea back then that we could switch if we wanted to. I was also not wanting them to bathe my baby but I'm not sure if I can decline that or not. Yeah I'm definitely having my husband stay with the baby at all times. I can't believe they charged you for the hep B shot even though she didn't have it. Absurd!
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#13 of 43 Old 10-01-2010, 03:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Okay so with the pku why does it have to be done twice? Can it be done just once? Does it have to be done at the hospital? I would really like to do it at the ped's office, can you alter the results though if the test is done later rather than sooner? Thanks again for the responses. I guess I should start a new thread on this on the BaB forum.
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#14 of 43 Old 10-01-2010, 03:40 AM
 
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The reason for 2 tests is that some of the results are better if they've been eating longer. Their bodies have more time to adjust to food intake and you can get a better sense for how their bodies tolerate food. My guess (though I don't know) is they draw the first to screen the babies whose families will not take them in for the second test. At least they can test them for some diseases. They draw the second test to see how the baby tolerates food.

My son was born at a birth center and we went home hours after birth. We already had the expanded genetic test at home and went back to the birth center to have them draw it at whatever age the test required. We did the second test--I can't remember. He was having lots of jaundice problems at that point. I can't remember if we did the next test at the birth center or the lab.

Our daughter was born at a hospital and we took her home at 24 hours. Because we were doing the expanded test the pediatrician wrote an order stating not to do the routine test. Since she was so unexpected (we got the call at 9:42 am about a baby born at 8:22 am. I was nursing her at 6 hours of age) and she born on a Sunday, we had to wait to order her genetic test. I think we had it drawn at the lab. I think we had the second one drawn at the lab as well.

I was surprised at how good the lab was at doing heelsticks. I used to work in the NICU so I know the humane way of doing heelsticks. If they weren't doing it right or were having trouble, I would just take over. When my son had jaundice he had to be hospitalized and had lots of sticks. I was horrified by how those techs on the pediatric unit wanted to do the sticks. My letter of complaint was taken very seriously by the hospital. They should only stick the baby once (some in the hospital wanted to start out with 2 sticks.) However, sometimes the stick just isn't good. If that's the case then a second stick is the most humane way to do it.

I would have the test done at the hospital if I had a really compassionate, competent person doing it. If the staff is icky, tell the pediatrician you want it done in their office or at a lab.

I know it's horrible for your baby to get stuck. However, missing a preventable death or serious brain damage is worse. Here's more information http://www.marchofdimes.com/pnhec/39679_834.asp

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#15 of 43 Old 10-01-2010, 03:48 AM
 
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Yeah in your case it was good that they used the hep B vax, in my case they were really pushy with my first one and since I was in the middle of my cesarean still wide opened when they pressured me I had no strength left to fight them.
Hospitals can suck. Says an RN who's worked in several (and won't take my kids to one of those I worked at for a brief time.)

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#16 of 43 Old 10-01-2010, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Hospitals can suck. Says an RN who's worked in several (and won't take my kids to one of those I worked at for a brief time.)
Unfortunately yeah. I mean even if I were pro vax how unethical to ask a woman in the middle of surgery about it. Wait till I'm recovering at least.

Anyway thanks for the link. I'm thinking about doing the expanded genetic testing done, I have to sit down and discuss it with dh and he's out of town on a business trip. Here's a question about it: (sorry for so many questions ) if we were to use this expanded genetic test is it something my dr. has to approve or the pediatrician? Either way I'll be definitely asking them to warm up the foot before they poke him.
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#17 of 43 Old 10-01-2010, 05:56 PM
 
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Unfortunately yeah. I mean even if I were pro vax how unethical to ask a woman in the middle of surgery about it. Wait till I'm recovering at least.

Anyway thanks for the link. I'm thinking about doing the expanded genetic testing done, I have to sit down and discuss it with dh and he's out of town on a business trip. Here's a question about it: (sorry for so many questions ) if we were to use this expanded genetic test is it something my dr. has to approve or the pediatrician? Either way I'll be definitely asking them to warm up the foot before they poke him.
Like the baby's liver was going to shrivel up and die if they didn't give the shot right after birth. Give me a friggin' break. Let the baby figure out how to breathe before you inject it with foreign substances.

To answer your question, the pediatrician. It's a test on the baby so the baby's doctor needs to be involved. That said, when we had our son's drawn at the birth center, they mailed it in. The pediatrician wasn't involved. However, you're going through a hospital so you have to do it their way.

Our pediatrician had the results for our daughter so when she ended up having chronic diarrhea (from an amoeba) all she had to do was look at the results and verify she did not have cystic fibrosis.

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#18 of 43 Old 10-02-2010, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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To answer your question, the pediatrician. It's a test on the baby so the baby's doctor needs to be involved. That said, when we had our son's drawn at the birth center, they mailed it in. The pediatrician wasn't involved. However, you're going through a hospital so you have to do it their way.

Our pediatrician had the results for our daughter so when she ended up having chronic diarrhea (from an amoeba) all she had to do was look at the results and verify she did not have cystic fibrosis.
Thanks for the info. Yeah I'll be going through the hospital, but I'm going to tell them not to do it right away since I'll be having a cesarean again this time. I want to recover and have my baby nursing already before they do it. Thanks again.
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#19 of 43 Old 10-02-2010, 11:47 AM
 
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Thanks for the info. Yeah I'll be going through the hospital, but I'm going to tell them not to do it right away since I'll be having a cesarean again this time. I want to recover and have my baby nursing already before they do it. Thanks again.
Most likely they won't want to do it until close to discharge. They want the baby to have gotten as much milk as possible.

As I recall, when we did the expanded test they actually recommended it be drawn earlier than I expected, like around 48 hours.

You aren't going to try a VBAC?

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#20 of 43 Old 10-02-2010, 09:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Most likely they won't want to do it until close to discharge. They want the baby to have gotten as much milk as possible.

As I recall, when we did the expanded test they actually recommended it be drawn earlier than I expected, like around 48 hours.

You aren't going to try a VBAC?
Good to know.

Well, not to derail much OT but I do need to vent about trying a vbac. I'm sorry if this is long .

I want to try a vbac so much. After much research we just couldn't go with a midwife. My OB is the same one that delivered my son last year when my original dr. wasn't available. Last year I was going to do a natural birth at the hospital. My original dr. knew everything I wanted and was okay with it but my son came early and my dr. was out of town. Well turned out that I abrupted really bad and so had to have emergency c-section. Surgery went well but a few weeks later I had dvt. Had to stop bf so fast forward I don't know if you remember I was often in the bf forum relactating for my son. I got milk but he never took my breast so I dried up. Fast forward again to this pregnancy. When we decided to go with this dr. everything went downhill. He right away wanted me to schedule a cesarean at 39 weeks to prevent what happened last time (after much research and talk with different drs. I found out that no one knows why an abruption happens and it's really rare to occur even for those that it's happened to).

Then he wanted me to be on a heavy dose of heparin (shots) to prevent blood clot. Got a second opinion per his request from a high risk dr. and got tested for blood clotting factors. Everything came out negative so that high risk dr. and I decided that just being on a low dose baby aspirin twice a day would suffice, and after the baby is born start a low dosage of heparin (shots to prevent blood clot). I've been doing that. Well so back to my original dr. he sent me to another high risk dr. who pressured me and then he pressured me into taking this medication. After several times saying no he got frustrated. So recently I lied and said I was taking it. Now I have an appointment to get my blood drawn (they need to check the platelets for osteoporosis among other things) and I'm stressed. The thing I kept telling him what the other dr. and I decided together is that I would be on aspirin for now and after baby is out start the heparin, but no that's not good enough according to him and this other dr that agrees with him.

One other thing is ironically this high risk dr. who agrees with him and has been pressuring me to take this medication said I could have a vbac. My baby right now is on the 80th percentile. They checked my glucose and everything came out okay except one of the results from the test was high so now my dr. wanted me to check my glucose with a glucometer. Have been and all the numbers are in normal range. Seriously I'm so mad I just don't know if at this point I can change providers. So to sum it up I am seriously thinking about an unassisted birth and then getting my baby checked but I don't know if that would be irresponsible yk. I just feel like I have no control whatsoever about my health or that of my baby's but they know better than I do. Also through all of this I'm always told that baby's fine and doing great so...again I've just been feeling mad and frustrated and I'm not sure what I'm going to do at this point. Maybe just cave in I guess. Anyway SundayCrepes thanks for reading this long post. I feel better just writing all this down.
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#21 of 43 Old 10-02-2010, 10:53 PM
 
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I don't think it's too late to switch. As you've already experienced, the doctor who delivers isn't always the same doctor who has treated you all along. You're delivering at IMC, right? The maternal-fetal medicine doctors there are awesome - the midwives switched my care over to them a month or so ago, but I've been seeing them since 14 weeks because I'm considered high risk. I've seen 3 different doctors in the practice and they've all been OK letting me VBAC with twins over age 35 (just barely over, though, so I don't know how much of a factor that is). I can recommend 2 doctors there specifically if you'd like. You might need a referral from you current doctor, though.

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#22 of 43 Old 10-03-2010, 02:02 AM
 
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BRmama,

I thought I recognized your name. Must be from the relactating thread.

I am so glad you and your little one survived the abruption. When I was working in a hospital based birth center there were a couple times when I had to introduce a baby that died from an abruption (despite a c-section) to its parents. I'd carry the still body wrapped in a blanket so everyone thought I was just a nurse carrying a baby. Then I'd go into the room and the parents would be so sad. I'd leave them alone with their baby if they wanted and go sit in the nursery all depressed. Another time I was working in the NICU. The baby had survived the abruption because of an emergency c-section but had such severe brain damage that it was not going to last for long. For complicated reasons they could not bring the mom up to the ICU to see the baby until the father arrived. I spent all day wringing my hands that the baby would die before the mom could meet it. Finally, towards the end of my 12 hour shift they brought the mom upstairs. The baby was so close to death (it had been on a ventilator all it's life) that we didn't take in any heart monitors. We didn't want the parents to freak out if they saw the monitors. It is so hard to help a mom meet her baby knowing that in moments the baby will die. Frankly, that experience was probably one of the best things I ever did for a patient. I helped them greet and say good-bye to their baby in a way that I feel proud of.

So, the reason I am telling you all these sad stories is to remind you how lucky you are that everything worked out so well for you. The second is to implore you not to do an unassisted birth. I am sad I didn't get to do a homebirth, but I got what I really wanted, a healthy baby. You did not get the birth you wanted before, but you and your baby walked away from a near death experience. (Then you survived a DVT. You were doubly blessed.) If I were in your shoes I would feel so lucky and just wouldn't fret about what I missed out on. (I'm not saying that you don't realize how lucky you were, I just want to re-emphasize it.)

All that said, if I were in your shoes I would also switch providers. It sounds like rachel can give you the names of some docs who are supportive of VBACs. Meet them. They should be willing to work with you in a way that keeps you safe but also lets you have your fantasy birth.

I have a history of a rapid heartbeat. When I was pregnant I saw a cardiologist to come up with a birth plan regarding my labor. She said I would be given IV medications. I know that you have to be on a heart monitor to get cardiac drugs by IV. I pointed out that I would be birthing in a birth center that doesn't have cardiac monitors. She immediately came up with a plan that had me taking oral medications. She didn't try to pressure me, she worked within the framework of what I wanted. If I had a serious, serious heart problem it would have been inappropriate for me to birth without cardiac monitoring, but that's not where I was. She was a good enough doctor to be aware of that.

You've already got one doctor telling you a VBAC would be fine. This tells me that it's not unrealistic to expect a VBAC. So, get the names of the new doctors, tell them that you are going to be doing a VBAC and you want to come up with a plan to keep you and the baby safe. It is not their decision whether you have a VBAC or not, that is your decision and you've got support that it is a safe decision. It is their job to keep you safe when you do it. If they cannot support you through that then find a doctor that can. So, find someone who will support you in that choice.

I hope I haven't come off too harsh or dramatic or anything here. I am trying to help you get a safe VBAC. There are risks to VBACs so I wouldn't want to do a UAC, but they're safe enough that I would work hard to get one.

Created an instant family (7/89 and 5/91) in 1997. Made a baby boy 12/05 adopted a baby girl 8/08. Ask me about tandem adoptive nursing. Now living as gluten, dairy, cane sugar, and tomato free vegetarians. Homeschooling and loving it.

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#23 of 43 Old 10-03-2010, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't think it's too late to switch. As you've already experienced, the doctor who delivers isn't always the same doctor who has treated you all along. You're delivering at IMC, right? The maternal-fetal medicine doctors there are awesome - the midwives switched my care over to them a month or so ago, but I've been seeing them since 14 weeks because I'm considered high risk. I've seen 3 different doctors in the practice and they've all been OK letting me VBAC with twins over age 35 (just barely over, though, so I don't know how much of a factor that is). I can recommend 2 doctors there specifically if you'd like. You might need a referral from you current doctor, though.
Thanks Rachel. My pregnancy is high risk as well so I've been there. The first dr. I spoke to was dr. Draper and he was really nice, then I spoke with dr. Porter, I liked her even though she didn't like the plan that dr. Draper and I had already made about preventing another blood clot and she kept pressuring me to take the medication. Anyway but she said in despite of everything I can still have a vbac. Are any of these two the ones that you recomend? I'd love to know who you'd recommend since I don't know that many drs. there. I've only been there like twice for ultrasounds. My original ob retired otherwise I'd be under him. He was really good.
Anyway I would already have a referral from my ob now so switching shouldn't be a problem. Thanks again
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#24 of 43 Old 10-03-2010, 05:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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BRmama,

I thought I recognized your name. Must be from the relactating thread.

I am so glad you and your little one survived the abruption. When I was working in a hospital based birth center there were a couple times when I had to introduce a baby that died from an abruption (despite a c-section) to its parents. I'd carry the still body wrapped in a blanket so everyone thought I was just a nurse carrying a baby. Then I'd go into the room and the parents would be so sad. I'd leave them alone with their baby if they wanted and go sit in the nursery all depressed. Another time I was working in the NICU. The baby had survived the abruption because of an emergency c-section but had such severe brain damage that it was not going to last for long. For complicated reasons they could not bring the mom up to the ICU to see the baby until the father arrived. I spent all day wringing my hands that the baby would die before the mom could meet it. Finally, towards the end of my 12 hour shift they brought the mom upstairs. The baby was so close to death (it had been on a ventilator all it's life) that we didn't take in any heart monitors. We didn't want the parents to freak out if they saw the monitors. It is so hard to help a mom meet her baby knowing that in moments the baby will die. Frankly, that experience was probably one of the best things I ever did for a patient. I helped them greet and say good-bye to their baby in a way that I feel proud of.

So, the reason I am telling you all these sad stories is to remind you how lucky you are that everything worked out so well for you. The second is to implore you not to do an unassisted birth. I am sad I didn't get to do a homebirth, but I got what I really wanted, a healthy baby. You did not get the birth you wanted before, but you and your baby walked away from a near death experience. (Then you survived a DVT. You were doubly blessed.) If I were in your shoes I would feel so lucky and just wouldn't fret about what I missed out on. (I'm not saying that you don't realize how lucky you were, I just want to re-emphasize it.)

All that said, if I were in your shoes I would also switch providers. It sounds like rachel can give you the names of some docs who are supportive of VBACs. Meet them. They should be willing to work with you in a way that keeps you safe but also lets you have your fantasy birth.

I have a history of a rapid heartbeat. When I was pregnant I saw a cardiologist to come up with a birth plan regarding my labor. She said I would be given IV medications. I know that you have to be on a heart monitor to get cardiac drugs by IV. I pointed out that I would be birthing in a birth center that doesn't have cardiac monitors. She immediately came up with a plan that had me taking oral medications. She didn't try to pressure me, she worked within the framework of what I wanted. If I had a serious, serious heart problem it would have been inappropriate for me to birth without cardiac monitoring, but that's not where I was. She was a good enough doctor to be aware of that.

You've already got one doctor telling you a VBAC would be fine. This tells me that it's not unrealistic to expect a VBAC. So, get the names of the new doctors, tell them that you are going to be doing a VBAC and you want to come up with a plan to keep you and the baby safe. It is not their decision whether you have a VBAC or not, that is your decision and you've got support that it is a safe decision. It is their job to keep you safe when you do it. If they cannot support you through that then find a doctor that can. So, find someone who will support you in that choice.

I hope I haven't come off too harsh or dramatic or anything here. I am trying to help you get a safe VBAC. There are risks to VBACs so I wouldn't want to do a UAC, but they're safe enough that I would work hard to get one.
SundayCrepes thank you so much for sharing that. You didn't come off as harsh at all. Yeah I do consider myself really blessed to have overcome two events in my life that I could be dead. I think part of the problem for me is that I feel so powerless. I mean I have no problem with interventions during my birth and if in the end I need to have a c-section I have no problem with that either. My problem is when I have two doctors who have said that I could have a vbac and my ob would rather do a c-section yk? I need to workout my feelings towards this issue. I mean I always wanted a normal birth without drugs. Well but even if I had to take the drugs I still would have liked a vaginal birth. I know that there are some women here that have had a vba2c but my dr. said that I would never be able to have a vaginal birth after this cesarean. So I'm bummed about that. Just lots of feelings I have to sort out.
Sometimes I have to remember what an ordeal I went through last year to appreciate what I have now. Still for some reason it makes me feel less adequate, like I'm taking the high road if I just have a cesarean as opposed to
laboring and having a vaginal birth.


I'm not against this medication that they want me to use to prevent blood clots. I think it's great that it's there. My issue is that I got tested for any clotting factors and everything came out negative and they still want me to take it. If for some reason I had even one clotting factor then yeah I'd be taking that medication for sure. The problem is the pressure. I think personally the reason why I had dvt is because after my surgery I had to stay in observation for four days. During those four days I had no idea and nobody told me that I could go walk around. Even though the next day I felt fine I stayed in bed. Had no clue except when they came in and told me that I could walk my son to the hearing test. Then I went home and was told not to pick anything heavy and take it easy for the next four weeks I think. So that's what I did. Now I know that I can walk around after the cesarean and that especially having had a blood clot you can never walk too much. When I had the clots I had to do lots of walking and exercise (nothing heavy just frequent little walks in my house and outside). I also think part of it could be from the abruption but I could be wrong. The point is this time I'll be walking a lot more after my cesarean and of course taking better care of myself.

Even though I worked many years for a hospice agency I can't imagine what it's like bringing a baby who just barely died to the parents. It definitely takes someone special to do that kind of job. I'm glad there's people like you in hospitals. Anyway I will probably switch drs again. You pointed out something that is so true and similar to what I'm going through. In the end I just want a dr. who will work within the time frame of what I want. What I'd like is a way to labor that I want still within the means of keeping me and the baby safe. If I have to give in a little for that to happen I have no problem as long as the dr. is also willing to meet me halfway. Thanks again for posting.

ETA: Oh one question about the pku test. I xposted on birth and beyond forum and I got a response that maybe you can clarify for me since you're a nurse. After the blood sample is taken out from the baby and screened and everything is done what happens to it (the blood sample)? Does the hospital destroy it? Or does it depend on the hospital to do with what they will? One of the mamas there said that for them they're signing a refusal waiver from the hospital because they're doing it privately. They're not comfortable with the hospital having a sample of their baby's dna. I think that's a good idea to use that company that you referred me to. The more I research them the more I like them and I think the pricing is reasonable imo. I don't think my state screens for everything that test screens for. Anyway thanks again.
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#25 of 43 Old 10-03-2010, 11:11 AM
 
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I think all the hospitals send the blood to an outside lab. I don't know if they hold onto the samples or not.

You've got a good attitude about this whole medical thing--Do intervention where it's necessary. If you can't get a good referral from anyone, just start interviewing doctors.

Maybe call the hospital ob unit and ask to talk to an L&D nurse. Tell her you're new in town and are looking for a doctor that does VBACS. (Don't tell her you're already seeing someone as that could put her in a weird position.) Can she give you several names? Ask her who is most into natural births. You may have to call a couple times in case you get a Nurse Ratchet. Frankly, if you want to know which doctors are good, you need to ask the nurses.

Created an instant family (7/89 and 5/91) in 1997. Made a baby boy 12/05 adopted a baby girl 8/08. Ask me about tandem adoptive nursing. Now living as gluten, dairy, cane sugar, and tomato free vegetarians. Homeschooling and loving it.

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#26 of 43 Old 10-04-2010, 11:09 AM
 
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Thanks Rachel. My pregnancy is high risk as well so I've been there. The first dr. I spoke to was dr. Draper and he was really nice, then I spoke with dr. Porter, I liked her even though she didn't like the plan that dr. Draper and I had already made about preventing another blood clot and she kept pressuring me to take the medication. Anyway but she said in despite of everything I can still have a vbac. Are any of these two the ones that you recomend? I'd love to know who you'd recommend since I don't know that many drs. there. I've only been there like twice for ultrasounds. My original ob retired otherwise I'd be under him. He was really good.
Anyway I would already have a referral from my ob now so switching shouldn't be a problem. Thanks again
No, they aren't the ones I'd recommend - I haven't seen them. Dr. Eller is my main doctor, but I've actually only seen her once. She was really positive about VBAC when we discussed it. I also like Dr. Metz. She told me that if we were planning to have more children, VBAC would be the better option. It seems like if you switch your care to the maternal-fetal medicine group, though, you'll be more likely to get your VBAC than if you stay with your current doctor. He seems to be the only one who thinks you can't have one.

Semi-crunchy Mama to three happy, healthy girls - T(6/08), A (12/10) and B (12/10)
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#27 of 43 Old 10-04-2010, 12:54 PM
 
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OP, one other thing I thought I'd mention. We gave our son the Vit K (my midwife talked me into it.) After he was born I was doing some reading and there's a question if there is protection from GI cancer by not having the Vitamin K. So there may be pluses and minuses to Vit. K. However, I did give the eye ointment. It's not the painful silver nitrate drops they gave years ago, it's just an ointment. No pain involved. I figured it protected his eyes in case I had some sort of infection. I just had them wait until he was falling asleep to give it to him. That way it didn't affect bonding and he got some protection, just in case.

Created an instant family (7/89 and 5/91) in 1997. Made a baby boy 12/05 adopted a baby girl 8/08. Ask me about tandem adoptive nursing. Now living as gluten, dairy, cane sugar, and tomato free vegetarians. Homeschooling and loving it.

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#28 of 43 Old 10-04-2010, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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No, they aren't the ones I'd recommend - I haven't seen them. Dr. Eller is my main doctor, but I've actually only seen her once. She was really positive about VBAC when we discussed it. I also like Dr. Metz. She told me that if we were planning to have more children, VBAC would be the better option. It seems like if you switch your care to the maternal-fetal medicine group, though, you'll be more likely to get your VBAC than if you stay with your current doctor. He seems to be the only one who thinks you can't have one.
Thanks again Rachel, yeah I'm thinking about going with the maternal fetal group because I do want more kids. I'm not closed to a c-section, in the end if I have to have it that's fine, it's just the whole let's schedule a cesarean jic that irks me yk. Anyway thanks for the recommendation.
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#29 of 43 Old 10-04-2010, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I think all the hospitals send the blood to an outside lab. I don't know if they hold onto the samples or not.

You've got a good attitude about this whole medical thing--Do intervention where it's necessary. If you can't get a good referral from anyone, just start interviewing doctors.

Maybe call the hospital ob unit and ask to talk to an L&D nurse. Tell her you're new in town and are looking for a doctor that does VBACS. (Don't tell her you're already seeing someone as that could put her in a weird position.) Can she give you several names? Ask her who is most into natural births. You may have to call a couple times in case you get a Nurse Ratchet. Frankly, if you want to know which doctors are good, you need to ask the nurses.
Thanks SundayCrepes, I'll most likely go with the maternal fetal group at my hospital that I mentioned above. They will probably be more likely to do vbacs. Like I mentioned I'm not against cesarean but it's the whole attitude of let's schedule a cesarean jic the same thing happens last year that bothers me. I was kind of more worried about the fact that since my son was born Feb last year and this one will be born in November this year they'd be 21 months apart and the spacing would not be long enough for me to have a vbac.

Quote:
OP, one other thing I thought I'd mention. We gave our son the Vit K (my midwife talked me into it.) After he was born I was doing some reading and there's a question if there is protection from GI cancer by not having the Vitamin K. So there may be pluses and minuses to Vit. K. However, I did give the eye ointment. It's not the painful silver nitrate drops they gave years ago, it's just an ointment. No pain involved. I figured it protected his eyes in case I had some sort of infection. I just had them wait until he was falling asleep to give it to him. That way it didn't affect bonding and he got some protection, just in case.
Yeah I'm still reading about that one. I'm thinking about doing it orally for him the way it's done in Europe with very low doses (I have to study more so I know their procedure). One poster on b&b forum mentioned where I could buy it but I can't remember off the top of my head. That's a good idea about the eye ointment. Here's my question. I'm not opposing it but here's my worry. Is it some kind of antibiotic put in the eyes? Because I know I have the I think they call it group strep B, and last year when I was in labor they gave me antibiotics through IV. They said it wouldn't affect the baby it'd just make it better when he came out so he wouldn't get that from me. So I'm pretty sure I'll need the antibiotics this time around too, but then if they put an antibiotic ointment on my baby's eyes would that be too much antibiotics for him? Thanks again
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#30 of 43 Old 10-04-2010, 03:18 PM
 
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Thanks SundayCrepes, I'll most likely go with the maternal fetal group at my hospital that I mentioned above. They will probably be more likely to do vbacs. Like I mentioned I'm not against cesarean but it's the whole attitude of let's schedule a cesarean jic the same thing happens last year that bothers me. I was kind of more worried about the fact that since my son was born Feb last year and this one will be born in November this year they'd be 21 months apart and the spacing would not be long enough for me to have a vbac.



Yeah I'm still reading about that one. I'm thinking about doing it orally for him the way it's done in Europe with very low doses (I have to study more so I know their procedure). One poster on b&b forum mentioned where I could buy it but I can't remember off the top of my head. That's a good idea about the eye ointment. Here's my question. I'm not opposing it but here's my worry. Is it some kind of antibiotic put in the eyes? Because I know I have the I think they call it group strep B, and last year when I was in labor they gave me antibiotics through IV. They said it wouldn't affect the baby it'd just make it better when he came out so he wouldn't get that from me. So I'm pretty sure I'll need the antibiotics this time around too, but then if they put an antibiotic ointment on my baby's eyes would that be too much antibiotics for him? Thanks again

No, the antibiotics are fine. I wanted to do oral Vit. K but my midwife told me how in some scandinavian countries research showed it wasn't as effective. It can prevent brain bleeds. i'd research cancer prevention and vitamin k.

Created an instant family (7/89 and 5/91) in 1997. Made a baby boy 12/05 adopted a baby girl 8/08. Ask me about tandem adoptive nursing. Now living as gluten, dairy, cane sugar, and tomato free vegetarians. Homeschooling and loving it.

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