THE LAW in Arizona... - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 17 Old 08-18-2008, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok...first can a Dr 'fire' a patient in AZ? If mom is 39wks and doesn't agree with being induced at 40wks 1 day (yes, it is ludicrous) can she say NO to the Dr without fear of repercussions?
My dear niece/friend is really wanting her body/baby to do this as natural as possible and her Dr isn't really making it easy for her. As a first time momma I am hoping we can give her as much info/legal info as possible so she can be an advocate for her self and her baby.
Can you believe he checked her (at 39wks) at 1.5cm and then mentioned induction??
Any info would be a big help! Thank you in advance!!
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#2 of 17 Old 08-18-2008, 08:49 PM
 
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Unfortunately I can believe that this happened. It is sad, but it seems like OBs do things like this to cover themselves from malpractice.

I don't know the law or the standard of practice in this case, so I apologize for not being much help in that department.

Has your niece been fired already? Does she need info on who to go to or where to deliver?

I am so sorry this happened. Please keep us updated on how things are going.
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#3 of 17 Old 08-18-2008, 08:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Miss Blue View Post
Unfortunately I can believe that this happened. It is sad, but it seems like OBs do things like this to cover themselves from malpractice.

I don't know the law or the standard of practice in this case, so I apologize for not being much help in that department.

Has your niece been fired already? Does she need info on who to go to or where to deliver?

I am so sorry this happened. Please keep us updated on how things are going.


She has not been fired...and it is my understanding that a DR cannot fire a patient in the 39th month...anyone know the law?
She is a strong woman who knows her body and trusts it and the baby...she should NOT be bullied by the powers that be!!!
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#4 of 17 Old 08-18-2008, 09:21 PM
 
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no, they cannot without making sure she is covered by someone competent.

If she goes in there with studies, research, informed reasoning on WHY she is going to let her body do its own thing- she can in fact lodge a complaint against him if he fights her.

Tell her to tell the doctor that she wants copies of medical ressearch saying that an induction is warranted at 40 weeks, 1 day.

Tell her to ask him what the standards of practice are, in writing.

~jen~ )O( mama to k 07/05 o 5/08 and c 12/09
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#5 of 17 Old 08-19-2008, 02:01 AM
 
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Hi, Fellow Nov. 06 mama :

Not sure of the law in this field, sorry...Good luck and keep us informed!
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#6 of 17 Old 08-19-2008, 02:31 AM
 
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The problem I forsee is that even if she gets past this hurdle her OB is going to be constantly trying to scare her into an induction most likely and then even if she makes it to the hospital without being induced he'll prob come at her with the typical interventions. A doc who wants to induce this early for no medical reason is going to be intervention happy with all things.

What city is she in? I've heard of women switching providers as late as just hours before birth. Maybe someone here could give a good recommendation.

Rachel, mom to Jake (5/04) and Alexia (7/07) a surprise UC thanks to hypnobabies!
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#7 of 17 Old 08-19-2008, 03:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs_Hos View Post
Ok...first can a Dr 'fire' a patient in AZ? If mom is 39wks and doesn't agree with being induced at 40wks 1 day (yes, it is ludicrous) can she say NO to the Dr without fear of repercussions?
My dear niece/friend is really wanting her body/baby to do this as natural as possible and her Dr isn't really making it easy for her. As a first time momma I am hoping we can give her as much info/legal info as possible so she can be an advocate for her self and her baby.
Can you believe he checked her (at 39wks) at 1.5cm and then mentioned induction??
Any info would be a big help! Thank you in advance!!
In the USA Doctors have every right to not see or stop seeing a patient, just as much as a patient has a right to stop seeing a Doctor they don't agree with ...
Doctors have the right to determine their own rules and procedures ..

Your niece might want to get a copy of the "rules" and office procedures she signed when she first went to this doctor..
More than likely there is a clause that states that the doctor has a right to refuse service if the patient refuses to follow his way of doing things..

Your niece can go to another Doctor at any time during her pregnancy..
,
My sister used one Doctor for check ups , up until birth and then had another Doctor deliver my baby due
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#8 of 17 Old 08-19-2008, 06:49 PM
 
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as much as someone may think that a physician has the same rights - only with conditions-- a subsitute has to be provided for and with due care a statement from a court ruling below- the thing is as Shelsi has pointed out the doctor will continue to push his agenda --- and there is lies the biggest trouble--


here is the ruling
"The general rule is that a physician is not liable for a substitute's negligence unless the substitute physician is in his employment, or is his agent, partner, or unless due care is not exercised in making the substitution." Reed v. Gershweir 772 P. 2d. 26 (Ariz. App. 1989)."


-----------------------
here is another bit of info on the subject

"Medical malpractice dominates the headlines, but a more basic legal question involving medical care is the affirmative duty, if any, to provide medical treatment. The historical rule is that a physician has no duty to accept a patient, regardless of the severity of the illness. A physician's relationship with a patient was understood to be a voluntary, contracted one. Once the relationship was established, the physician was under a legal obligation to provide medical treatment and was a fiduciary in this respect. (A fiduciary is a person with a duty to act primarily for the benefit of another.)

Once the physician-patient relationship exists, the physician can be held liable for an intentional refusal of care or treatment, under the theory of Abandonment. (Abandonment is an intentional act; negligent lack of care or treatment is medical malpractice.) When a treatment relationship exists, the physician must provide all necessary treatment to a patient unless the relationship is ended by the patient or by the physician, provided that the physician gives the patient sufficient notice to seek another source of medical care. Most doctors and hospitals routinely ensure that alternative sources of treatment—other doctors or hospitals—are made available for patients whose care is being discontinued.

The discontinuation of care involves significant economic issues. Reimbursement procedures often limit or cut off the funding for a particular patient's care. Under the diagnosis-related group (DRG) system of Medicare, part A, 42 U.S.C. § 1395c, a hospital is paid a pre-set amount for the treatment of a particular diagnosis, regardless of the actual cost of treatment. Patients who are covered by private insurance or HMOs may lose their coverage if they fail to pay premiums. Physicians and hospitals must act carefully when this happens, because the fiduciary nature of the relationship between provider and patient is not changed by a patient's unexpected inability to pay. Health care providers must notify a patient and even must help to secure alternative care when funds are not reimbursed as expected."
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#9 of 17 Old 08-19-2008, 10:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Shelsi View Post

What city is she in? I've heard of women switching providers as late as just hours before birth. Maybe someone here could give a good recommendation.

She is in Goodyear, Az

Anyone from around there...know of a good MW or Dr that is taking new patients and who BELIEVES IN A WOMANS ABILITY TO BIRTH NATURALLY??
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#10 of 17 Old 08-19-2008, 11:42 PM
 
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that is basically the Phoenix area there are several midwives she could call- Try Mary Henderson or Pam Qualls to name a couple off the top of my head there are several other mw actively practicing in her area
--
there is a list Arizona midwives online-- if you do a search
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#11 of 17 Old 08-20-2008, 12:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by mwherbs View Post
that is basically the Phoenix area there are several midwives she could call- Try Mary Henderson or Pam Qualls to name a couple off the top of my head there are several other mw actively practicing in her area
--
there is a list Arizona midwives online-- if you do a search
THANK YOU LADIES!

I've passed all of this info on to her...I am hoping she calls one of these mws and is able to have a CHANCE ya know?
I don't have time right now to really preach from my soapbox, but suffice it to say that I'm VERY annoyed with her Dr (and many Drs in general)... (understatement of the year).
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#12 of 17 Old 08-20-2008, 12:22 AM
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Whatever else happens, at this point, she should keep her pants on in his office. Unless she's having a lot of contractions or feeling an urge to push. Exams are too good an opportunity for the doc to mess with her, and he's proven he's pushy.
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#13 of 17 Old 08-20-2008, 04:17 PM
 
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I suspect there may be details that are missing here. First, what repercussions would be involved for the involved parties. Second, has the state supreme court issued an order for mandated care. Roll the dice and take the chances. If a person wants a spontaneous vaginal childbirth, then there is no need for induction, thus no need to schedule or agree to one. The easiest way to not have an induction is not to be in the presence of a party who can do an induction.
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#14 of 17 Old 08-20-2008, 04:23 PM
 
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PS - a "fired" patient will have notes in the medical record indicating the cause for termination, including the manner in which the "firing" was conveyed, be it verbal or in writing. Some practices have a written policy in place, which may or may not be posted publicly. Some practices send certified letters. A patient is not required to keep or send such documentation if the doctor is on the receiving end, but having the refusal or cause for termination written by the doctor after when fired by the patient may reduce the doctor's need to pursue the issue further. That said, if the feeling is mutual between the doctor and patient, it might help empower the patient to fire the doctor before the doctor can fire the patient.
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#15 of 17 Old 08-20-2008, 04:37 PM
 
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The easiest way to not have an induction is not to be in the presence of a party who can do an induction.
AMEN TO THAT!!
That is what I tell most moms who want a natural birth...don't go to the Hospital until you are starting to push! hhahahaahah

Mommy to BigBoy Ian (3-17-05) ; LittleBoy Connor (3-3-07) (DiGeorge/VCFS):; BabyBoy Gavin (10-3-09) x3 AngelBaby (1-7-06)
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#16 of 17 Old 08-24-2008, 02:58 PM
 
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AMEN TO THAT!!
That is what I tell most moms who want a natural birth...don't go to the Hospital until you are starting to push! hhahahaahah
absolutely!!

7th Heaven here we come! Due date early May
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#17 of 17 Old 08-24-2008, 03:11 PM
 
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Mary Henderson did a HB and delievered my youngest sister, my mom really liked her.

Anna
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