Midwife Reviews in Oregon? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 27 Old 08-15-2011, 06:27 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I found this site and I'm not sure what to think of it. Some of the stories are really scary. What do you think?

 

http://oregonmidwifereviews.blogspot.com/

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#2 of 27 Old 08-17-2011, 10:57 PM
 
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It is full of lots of half truths.  There has been a lot of fighting going on to try to stop midwives in Oregon, but especially in the Portland area from practicing, The thing that most of the doctors and nurses that are behind this don't understand is that they would not be getting more patience they would just be forcing the mothers to chose to go unassisted instead. 


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#3 of 27 Old 08-17-2011, 11:13 PM
 
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If you do not know who to believe, you can google and see if those stories come up in other sources.  I was on FB on Birth WithoutFear when I read posting by Margarita. Later her story was in newspaper. It is pretty sad and I do now understand how OR state can allows anyone to call themselves a midwife.

 

When I was choosing an OB it was really easy for me to see if she/he has any sanctions against him/her etc. It does not seem to be so easy with MW in OR

http://www.registerguard.com/web/newslocalnews/26717619-41/sheikh-midwives-baby-birth-son.html.csp

 

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#4 of 27 Old 08-17-2011, 11:24 PM
 
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The laws are pitifully lax for midwives in this state... anyone can hang up a shingle. Babies have been harmed.
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#5 of 27 Old 08-18-2011, 01:50 AM
 
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One of the comments on the blog from the OP's link compared the site to "Fox News About Home Birth". From the looks of things... that sounds about right. I think calling that site a place to get "midwife reviews" is incredibly inaccurate. If midwife horror stories are what you're looking for... awesome. You got it all right there. LOL

 

That said, I've never been too fond of birth centers, Alma and Andaluz included. And frankly, most of the midwives I know aren't too fond of them either. 

 

You know what laws are pitifully lax? The ones in the U.S. that require the accurate reporting of maternal deaths by doctors and hospitals... oh wait, they don't even have those here... they're just "guidelines" that no one follows. And guess what? Even the guidelines they do follow show that the U.S. is significantly lagging among other developed nations in the number of maternal deaths.... hmmm. No wonder home birth is trending upward. Let's face it, MDC is swayed toward home birth and the medical industry is not. The only way to get the real facts is to do the research and read the reports yourselves, ladies. When your life and your child's life is on the line... who else are you going to trust? I read it ALL and then dismiss most of it as fear-based crappola. I don't trust everything on MDC, but what I do trust here can ALSO be found and researched further in other serious publications... not just on Facebook.


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#6 of 27 Old 08-18-2011, 09:04 AM
 
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Have you looked at CDC web site? Read Joint Commisssion reports?

 

Hospital are required to track and report everything.

 

Every time there is death in US hospital that could have been even remotely preventable, an M&M meeting is called. It is very frank and honest peer review aimed at changing the protocols.

 

OBs and RNnd CNM's and hospital also have malpractice insurance. Should something go wrong because of the provider's's fault, at least the patients, or the parents of the paties have court as their remedy.

 

 

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#7 of 27 Old 08-18-2011, 09:08 AM
 
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As far as maternal deaths, if you actually read the entire  Amnesty International report, you feel see that white middle class maternal death is not the problem. We do have good healthcare, if you are privileged to get it. US maternal death indicators are not heterogeneous across the border. We have very bad indicates among African_American, Hispanic and Native American because these population tend to have lower incomes and less access to health care.  We need universal health care if we want to improve out maternity death numbers among those populations.

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#8 of 27 Old 08-19-2011, 07:52 AM
 
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RE: US maternal death rate - I think that's probably more a comment on the growing poverty issues in America than anything else, honestly.  Being poor = bad nutrition, and we all know how important nutrition is to mom and baby!  It's very sad, and I don't think it's getting better any time soon, economy going down the tubes *sigh* And I live in one of the worst states for it, in the south, very poor place and one of the worst places for kids sadly.  Its why I homeschool! 

But - I heard about what happened with Margarita (sp?)  I can't believe what those two did to her. I guess when picking a midwife just be reeeeeeaallly careful and do lots of research and see if you turn up anything they are trying to bury, literally or figuratively.  There's some great midwives out there, but also some really terrible ones.

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#9 of 27 Old 08-19-2011, 11:39 AM
 
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Firstly, being required to track, and being required to track accurately are two different things. The list of death causing conditions among women in their first year post-partum is significantly lacking in the US when compared to the tracking methods adopted voluntarily by other developed nations (like the Netherlands, for example). In those countries, ALL deaths except accidents and homicides are tracked as maternal deaths within the first year post-partum, whereas the US allows for a doctor to determine whether or not a maternal death is reportable as such.

 

Secondly, researching facts about the US that are published by US sources such as the Joint Commission and the CDC is laughable to me. It's like asking toddlers to babysit themselves.

 

Thirdly, the words "frank and honest peer review" are subjective and essentially mean nothing.

 

And lastly, midwives in Oregon are required to have malpractice insurance too. And it's just as comprehensive as the policies that doctors carry.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

Have you looked at CDC web site? Read Joint Commisssion reports?

 

Hospital are required to track and report everything.

 

Every time there is death in US hospital that could have been even remotely preventable, an M&M meeting is called. It is very frank and honest peer review aimed at changing the protocols.

 

OBs and RNnd CNM's and hospital also have malpractice insurance. Should something go wrong because of the provider's's fault, at least the patients, or the parents of the paties have court as their remedy.

 

 


 

 


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#10 of 27 Old 08-19-2011, 11:46 AM
 
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Amnesty International is a good source... unfortunately statistics can be read a million different ways and you really need to have a statistics background to interpret them properly, which I do. The primary reason why whites have better healthcare outcomes is (as a PP mentioned) directly related to the poverty levels of countries with primarily whites vs. blacks. If however, you go to a statistics site like Gap Minder and choose only developed countries, you will note that the US, when compared to other developed countries (as I have been saying all along), has comparatively poor outcomes for maternal death... and that is, even with our inaccurate reporting tactics, which are IMO (see how I did that? I identified my opinion as separate from facts? Take note there)... designed to hide the reality of maternal deaths in this country. Hmmm.

 

But yes, I agree with you on the need for universal healthcare to help with those populations in the US. Even so, you really can't compare international health outcomes to domestic ones... they're an entirely different set of facts and circumstances, no matter how closely the US distribution of health outcomes mirrors the rest of the world in terms of race.
 

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Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

As far as maternal deaths, if you actually read the entire  Amnesty International report, you feel see that white middle class maternal death is not the problem. We do have good healthcare, if you are privileged to get it. US maternal death indicators are not heterogeneous across the border. We have very bad indicates among African_American, Hispanic and Native American because these population tend to have lower incomes and less access to health care.  We need universal health care if we want to improve out maternity death numbers among those populations.



 


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#11 of 27 Old 08-20-2011, 12:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mommel View Post

One of the comments on the blog from the OP's link compared the site to "Fox News About Home Birth". From the looks of things... that sounds about right. I think calling that site a place to get "midwife reviews" is incredibly inaccurate. If midwife horror stories are what you're looking for... awesome. You got it all right there. LOL

 

That said, I've never been too fond of birth centers, Alma and Andaluz included. And frankly, most of the midwives I know aren't too fond of them either. 

 

 

May I ask why you are not find of those particular birth centers? I was really happy with the prenatal care I received at Alma, but was disappointed in how they handled certain aspects of my labor, and postpartum care. It was and still is  emotionally painful for me. I don't know that I would refer anyone there, but I'm confused about it. Maybe my midwife was going through a bad time? Maybe the other midwives there are better?

 

I never read or heard anything negative about them when I was pregnant. In fact your comment is the first I have read. I've been struggling to put my experience in perspective.

 

My baby is healthy, nothing life threatening happened. But there was a certain coldness and lack of care that shocked me. I had a homebirth, btw.


Mama to my daughter born in February 2011.
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#12 of 27 Old 08-20-2011, 12:43 PM
 
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What is going on in one's personal life does not spill into one professional life. This is something people in healthcare follow. When my son has issues, I do not take it out on people I work with and people I help. If I can;t handle it, I take a day off. This is what your MW supposed to have done as a true professional.

 

It is especially ironic to hear that your MF was "cold" and "lack of care"  while the HB MWs like to go on and on how rude  and uncaring  OBs are.

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#13 of 27 Old 08-20-2011, 12:47 PM
 
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Too true :(


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#14 of 27 Old 08-20-2011, 02:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

What is going on in one's personal life does not spill into one professional life. This is something people in healthcare follow. When my son has issues, I do not take it out on people I work with and people I help. If I can;t handle it, I take a day off. This is what your MW supposed to have done as a true professional.

 

It is especially ironic to hear that your MF was "cold" and "lack of care"  while the HB MWs like to go on and on how rude  and uncaring  OBs are.


Maybe this is the way that it should be, but it is not always the way it is.  With my first pregnancy and birth I was with an OB that on several occasions was very short and even rude to my DH and I and said that it was because he had been having a bad day or week.  I was young and did not really understand that even though I was on state insurance at the time I had the right to change doctors. 

When I lost my last pregnancy almost a year ago the nurses at the hospital were very rude to me and only after I had finish miscarrying were they at all nice.  They stated that they did not realize that I was that close to miscarrying and that it was late and they had thought I was just wasting their time.

 

The only health care providers that have ever treated me like a person instead of a waste of their time were the midwives at Andaluz. 

I am in no way saying that others have not had bad or horrid experiences with them and other birthcenter midwives, but I had two wonderful experiences and really wish that I still lived in Oregon so that I could have more babies at their birthcenter. 

 

In my case it has a lot to do with wanting to have control over my own birth.  I do not see the midwives as all powerful, all knowing beings.  They are not there to deliver my baby.  I deliver the babies.  My midwives are there to do prenatal care and to clean up the mess after wards.  Once I am at the birthcenter they did take heart tones every half hour or so, but other then that I did not want them in the room at all and so they were not.  During the pushing stage which with my last baby was 3 or 4 pushes they sat in the corner out of the way in chairs.  I caught my own baby, and they stayed out of the way.   If you are not interested in having some responsibility in your own birth and making informed decisions with help from them then no this type of midwives are not for you.

 

Here in Idaho if I get pregnant again I do not have the option of wonderful places like that, so I will be using a CNM for prenatal care and then will accidentally on purpose deliver at home.  I would prefer to have a slightly more knowledgeable person available during the birth, but I do really bad during birth with people being anywhere near my space, and everyone who I talk to here state that even the midwives (CNM) are very up in your face during labor and birth. And that most of them require constant monitoring.


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#15 of 27 Old 08-21-2011, 01:40 PM
 
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May I ask why you are not find of those particular birth centers?

Sure... I don't like the model of care provided at birth centers... especially ones attached to hospitals, which are very medicalized, IMO. The midwives are often rushed to provide care for more women than they can feasibly handle and a few of the home birth midwives I interviewed had begun in birth centers and were disillusioned with the care model, and I have also heard stories like yours... the care was "okay", but not as good as they expected.


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#16 of 27 Old 08-21-2011, 06:02 PM
 
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I think it's a pretty good site.

 

Of course they don't paint the whole picture....but then, neither do midwives and homebirth supporters.

For most of us, all we have to go on is OUR area of expertise and experience.

 

So do moms to be need "scary" stuff too? I think yes.

I think we need to know about stuff that has gone wrong, homebirth midwives that were unprofessional (from the patients view), we need to know about the risks.

Otherwise, how are moms supposed to make informed, educated choices, if they only get told about the bright and shiny stuff?

 

We need to hear both sides.


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#17 of 27 Old 08-28-2011, 01:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanna View Post

So do moms to be need "scary" stuff too? I think yes.

 

Fear. It's what's for dinner. nut.gif

 

I think facts are different than scare tactics and fear-mongering... but that's just me. Scary stories are different than statistics and factual reporting. I don't like to be sold to. From either side of the issue.


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#18 of 27 Old 08-28-2011, 03:06 AM
 
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Well, when will MANA publish its stats?

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#19 of 27 Old 08-28-2011, 12:39 PM
 
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Bah. I expect any practitioner who has been working long enough to have some complaints from clients. You can't please all the people all the time, and you can't expect to never have a loss either, it's just a matter of probability. I'm not impressed with the site. Nor am I impressed with the OP's thinly veiled attempt to expose more people to her blog.

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#20 of 27 Old 08-28-2011, 04:02 PM
 
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I read reviews on OBs when I was looking for one. There complaints and there complaints. There loss and there are losses.

I also looked at the aevrage number of lawsuits...and if it was above average, OB was off my list.

 

I looked at the stage board action too, if there was any, the OB was off my list.

 

I think having info and reviews is great

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#21 of 27 Old 08-28-2011, 11:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mommel View Post

Fear. It's what's for dinner. nut.gif

 


Geez. Just because you read something "scary" doesn't mean you suddenly have to be so scared, you go hide in a closet all day.

Scary stuff is a part of life and if women weren't able to face "scary" stuff on a day to day basis, none of us would ever leave our homes.

Crossing a road with lots of traffic is dangerous too.

And yeah, ugly car accidents DO happen and are on the news regularly.

Do I stop crossing roads or driving my car because of either? No.

Do I wear a seatbelt and have an airbag?

Yes.

Because, thanks to the news and the information, I know that doing without either can be dangerous, so I adapt.

 


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#22 of 27 Old 08-30-2011, 03:37 AM
 
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I never said some facts aren't scary... I just said that spreading fear without facts is inaccurate at best and dangerous at worst.

 

Here is the link for the OR regulatory board run by the state to regulate midwifery in Oregon: http://www.oregon.gov/OHLA/DEM/about_us.shtml

 

You can find records of complaints and check on specific midwives there. FACTS, people... not just scary campfire stories that go bump in the night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanna View Post

Geez. Just because you read something "scary" doesn't mean you suddenly have to be so scared, you go hide in a closet all day.

Scary stuff is a part of life and if women weren't able to face "scary" stuff on a day to day basis, none of us would ever leave our homes.

Crossing a road with lots of traffic is dangerous too.

And yeah, ugly car accidents DO happen and are on the news regularly.

Do I stop crossing roads or driving my car because of either? No.

Do I wear a seatbelt and have an airbag?

Yes.

Because, thanks to the news and the information, I know that doing without either can be dangerous, so I adapt.

 


Edit to correct link.

 


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#23 of 27 Old 08-30-2011, 04:01 AM
 
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Here's a status report on demographics of home birth in Oregon from 2008 stats: http://www.oregon.gov/OHLA/DEM/docs/Publications/OHLA_DEM_Midwifery_in_Oregon_2008_07_09.pdf?ga=t

 

And if you want to check on a specific midwife in Oregon, use this site, choose DEM as the board and choose her license type (even if it's unlicensed: https://elite.hlo.state.or.us/elitepublic/LPRBrowser.aspx This can also be used for OBs as well... but I haven't seen any other stats on OBs, so I'm wondering where they come from... anyone with a link to that claimed information?


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#24 of 27 Old 09-12-2011, 05:02 PM
 
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http://oregonmidwifereviews.blogspot.com/2011/09/game-of-risk.html

 

There's a new post about risk factors and regulations. Not sure what to think about this.

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#25 of 27 Old 09-14-2011, 02:19 PM
 
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I think that you need to realize that what written here is not necessarily true. This blogger has a lot to say about midwives due to her bad experience, but it is far from the experience of most midwives clients. I also want to point out that she wrote a blog entry about a family's twin/breech birth and when the family commented about their actual experience and feelings they were pretty much insulted then all the comments were taken down. I truly don't think this blogger has women and babies best interests in mind. She is pushing a her midwife hating agenda and will not take any unlike comments seriously or publish them anymore so we are not getting the whole picture here.

 

 

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#26 of 27 Old 09-15-2011, 02:15 PM
 
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Just to clarify something a pp said, too...  Andaluz and Alma are freestanding birth centers, zero hospital affiliation.  I had my son at Alma, don't know a thing about Andaluz, but the way the comments were written, it was as though "birth centers" (specifically those two) are just another set of cogs in the hospital machinery.  That may be true where hospital affiliated birth centers, staffed by CNMs are concerned, but is not the case with the freestanding, CPM staffed model.  Not, I believe, in terms of basic principles, and certainly not in my experience.

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#27 of 27 Old 09-15-2011, 03:02 PM
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This entire thread, starting with the OP, has raised flags. This forum is not a place to debate scope of practice for midwives so many of the posts to this are out of place.

 

Second, we are not hosting reviews of practitioners in the tribal forums. Reviews should be placed in the Practitioners and Services Reviews

 

Thirdly, there are members posting to this thread that are showing a pattern of posting to denigrate or otherwise criticize homebirth and midwifery, demonstrating a personal agenda. If this continues I will issue warnings and consider removing their posting privileges  to specific forums.

 

Finally, oregonmom2011 is another account registered by the same individual who registered and posted as freudian slip, anon of cleves, and whalemilk and even in this thread as Tom Bombadil so I suspect this post was placed with untoward, trollish intentions. I am closing these four acounts. Any questions can be sent to me at [email protected] This thread is closed. 

 

 


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