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  Topic Review (Newest First)
12-04-2008 02:21 AM
flowmom zahirakids, I do not believe that the vegetarian diet is optimal if you are dealing with ECC. Dd developed severe ECC during a stage when our family was vegan-ish, due some health issues that my dh is experiencing. I believe that our avoidance of animal foods during that time contributed to dd's developing ECC. Part of the problem is that my picky toddlers gravitate towards carby foods when animal foods are not available (they are not sitting there chowing on , and that's not ideal for nutrition. I would not recommend using soy products, especially soy milk, which is an ultra-processed food that contains chemical compounds that some believe to have anti-nutritional properties. It sounds like you do not have a safe source of raw milk, so stick to organic pasteurized cow or goat milk. If that doesn't work for you, then make your own nut milk - it's easy and yummy.

12-04-2008 02:08 AM
flowmom I haven't read the other replies, but...
Originally Posted by NatrlCatholicMama View Post
I'm starting Rami's protocol TODAY, but have a question - how to get MARROW into our diet?
You can get marrow bones from your natural/organic butcher. Natural pet food stores usually stock them as well. I roast them and my ds *loves* eating the marrow :.
Originally Posted by NatrlCatholicMama View Post
How do you prepare seaweed?
Most kids love dried nori as a snack.

12-03-2008 06:51 PM
WildCanaryCait yay what a great thread!

I have a question about the 'look' of fluorosis-vs-decay. Many photos I've seen online , of fluorosis, look like Aidan's top four front teeth. His ped-dentist disagrees, and says it is simply decay.
My belief is that the bit of decay there is fluorosis 'induced'. I'm not well versed enough (yet! to question/debate/discuss this with him. How do you tell ?
We are having some cavity healing success! One molar at least. I'm staying tight on our regimen, hoping those front four will follow along the remineralization route.
....while I stand my ground on the anti fluoride issue with the dentist. He seems to think that a tooth is an isolated environment and fluoride applied via cement under whatever covering will not travel into a childs system. <cough>
I am overwhelmed with research stating otherwise an off to more reading !
12-03-2008 11:11 AM
NatrlCatholicMama Bumping for HELP!!! Each of my children's teeth have been worse than the previous.

The first got cavities constantly from age 2-4. Then we started eating all whole grains.
The second got "baby bottle mouth" from about age 18mo.
The third at about age 20mo started having serious tooth wearing away. I thought it was a chip until I saw it was getting worse. Within a few months, most of a few of his front teeth all but disappeared.
#2 & #3 stopped getting cavities the very day I switched to raw milk and no more dry cereal & crackers. I was confidant the fourth would be spared.
The fourth at age 20 started getting "bbm" and now, just a month later, all four front top teeth are massively worn, one so much it is loose and nearly broken in half. Four molars have big cavities - all big enough for me to see easily. He eats sugar only once a month or so, never juice, never white or processed grains. Full WAP diet.

It seems obvious to me now - my own maternal stores were too depleted to pass on good ones to them. Obviously I have to start bulking up on nutrient-dense food for the next one. But I have to help #4 now.

So we've been doing CLO, but not 3x/day. I'm starting Rami's protocol TODAY, but have a question - how to get MARROW into our diet? I get marrow bones when we order a whole cow for the freezer, but not nearly enough to eat it regularly.

How do you prepare seaweed?
11-05-2008 12:21 PM
Peacemamalove I got a dreaded phone call from the dentist last night my son has one cavity in the back right molar. I feel like such an awful mom I have tried so so hard to protect my children from cavities. After reading the article I feel so so overwhelmed and don't even know where to begin, what to believe etc.

We are also vegetarians how do you go about this if you do not eat meat???? What do you eat?? I feel so confused sad and upset.

I am very scared about raw milk 3 people in my area have had salmonella poisoning from it and my own father almost died because of a parasite in the raw milk he drank. We also drink Silk soymilk.

How to I begin ?? What should I start with ?? I don't feel comfortable with letting the cavity rot out either that just seems wrong.though maybe I do not understand this whole concept.

This whole thing has me so very upset I really need some guidance please.
11-04-2008 04:15 PM
fluttermama Am I too late? My son has an abcesse tooth in the front that they want to pull, needs crowns...there is white lining on molars between tooth and gums, and 12 cavitites! He has always had awful teeth, but I had no idea it was this bad! He is 4. The dentist wants to do GA in the hospital rather than put him through 5 times of coming to the dentist and having to sit still and be fully conscious.

I don't know about changing diet right now because he already has the abcess and we have lots of food issues...celiac, no corn syrup, dairy is iffy. I've done WP in the past, but not too much with him, I didn't feel too well on it. Anyway...any suggestions for me at this point?
10-20-2008 08:39 PM
RileysmamaNM I honestly just don't understand all this I feel like such a horrible mother when it comes to my ds teeth. The two front teeth are just horrible and he's going in for caps in December. I do the best I can. I was raised eating really bad im the only one in my entire family that raises their children like I do. Im a young mother and I don't have anyone to go to on advice. My Mom didn't even know you needed to brush baby teeth. Im just totally lost on vitamins, minerals CLO..... This all seems like great advice but I don't get it...

10-16-2008 04:04 PM
WuWei Bumping.

05-20-2008 12:17 AM
Originally Posted by momhugs View Post
How about Vitamin C and a multivitamin?
Vitamin C is important for dental health:

The Invisible Toothbrush

Just don't get the chewables because they are bad for teeth .

My children and most children I know adore nori seaweed because of the saltiness and papery texture. It's an easy snack that is widely available where Japanese foods are sold.
05-19-2008 09:45 PM
Panserbjorne Often just the store (Whole Foods) I order some the kelp noodles! I also get some from David Wolfe, but only if I happen to be placing an order for something else. Whole Foods here has a great selection.
05-19-2008 09:22 PM
tanyalynn So firefaery, where do you get your seaweed?
05-19-2008 09:02 PM
Panserbjorne yeah, we use the mint. I think it's pretty nice!

My kids are seaweed fanatics too. That was one of their first foods and they adore it. IT's great because it's so portable.
05-19-2008 08:16 PM
tanyalynn Pookietooth, there's also a mint flavor, also from Green Pastures. Not sure if mint's ok, but I thought I'd mention it.

I'm interested in the seaweed too, and the fact that your child is so willing to eat it. I've been assuming that it's too strong-tasting so I have never really pursued seaweeds. And cool that it's doing good stuff!
05-19-2008 08:01 PM
Pookietooth My problem with the high vitamin Cod liver oil is that it only comes in cinnamon and citrus flavors, and ds is allergic to both of those things. And the plain flavor tastes like a refrigerator, not nice at all (I don't mind fishy, I just don't like stale tasting).

DS loves some kinds of seaweed -- let us know what kind you got!
05-17-2008 04:45 PM
laugh i know! i was skeptical but the brownness has become just a faint yellowness and i see definite improvement after only a couple of weeks (and she's had the spots for many months)! i can't remember which kind of seaweed it was, unfortunately. but next time i see it at the store, i will get back to you on that!
05-16-2008 08:11 PM
Originally Posted by laugh View Post
i am amazed! i've been feeding my daughter tonnes of seaweed (thankfully she loves it!) and sofar i've noticed the brown spots reduced by about 50%! anyone else having success?
Which kind of seaweed??
05-16-2008 06:17 PM
I understand that I'm supposed to be taking the following each day: Cod liver oil, x-factor butter, raw dairy, bone broth. How about Vitamin C and a multivitamin? Can any of these be purchased at Whole foods or Trader Joes?
If not, where can I find them? What would be the dosage for adults and children? Thanks in advance.
In case no one more knowledgeable chimes in....

We use cinnamon tingle flavored cod liver oil from Green Pastures. There are many places online to buy it, so check around for prices (sometimes there are discounts for buying multiple bottles, but that can get pricey, and there are differences in price for just 1 or 2 bottles). It has a bit of fish flavor (gotta be honest) but I sell it as "cinnamon oil!" in a happy tone, and the kids suggested that I sprinkle cinnamon on top, and it turns into a big production and they are enthusiastic. A bit of marketing was needed.

The x-factor butter oil is only available online, but not from as many places, I don't think. Not sure about price, we don't use it (we're not healing cavities, I've got other health things I'm working on for the kids). I've chosen to use Thorne's synthetic K2 (Price's x-factor turned out to be vitamin K2). It's synthetic and doesn't contain the co-factors that the butter oil does, but I'm ok with the trade-off for us because I think the flavor is easier to disguise and it is more economical. I got mine from amazon. One bottle lasts roughly 2 months when using 15 drops/day (1mg/drop). We're using less than that now, so the bottle is lasting longer.

I give the kids a multi because there are a lot of minerals that are needed for teeth (and other stuff) and I'm sure we've (my kids, I mean) got deficiencies that we're correcting. I think people have done this without a multi. I also give the kids vitC, but for other health stuff. I get mine from Bronson Pharmaceuticals online, item 50B (not a whole foods kind, someday I will look into that and maybe make a switch but for now I've been happy with this).

Have you been to the website? It has cod liver oil dosing for regular maintenance (healthy kids), so maybe starting at that level while beginning to incorporate the other stuff, and then go up. There are a few people who have healed cavities and gave specific dosages, but it was a while ago (not sure if they're around anymore) but this is a good thread to check, closer to the beginning.

Good luck!
05-16-2008 04:40 PM
laugh i am amazed! i've been feeding my daughter tonnes of seaweed (thankfully she loves it!) and sofar i've noticed the brown spots reduced by about 50%! anyone else having success?
05-09-2008 08:51 PM
laugh ksenia, thank you!
05-06-2008 11:37 PM
momhugs Hi. Would anyone be willing to help me outhere? I'm very interested in this thread but also very confused. I understand that I'm supposed to be taking the following each day: Cod liver oil, x-factor butter, raw dairy, bone broth. How about Vitamin C and a multivitamin? Can any of these be purchased at Whole foods or Trader Joes?
If not, where can I find them? What would be the dosage for adults and children? Thanks in advance.
05-05-2008 08:03 PM
flowmom laugh, I would suggest finding out if the yellow spots are decay - pretty important to know IMO. I have to force my dd to have her teeth brushed twice a day. I wish I had started doing that before she got early childhood caries . True ghee is made of clarified butter only. Soyabean and palm oils don't have any dental benefits that I know of. What you want is high vitamin butter oil:
05-05-2008 07:10 PM
laugh hello! this is such a fascinating thread. my daughter has yellowish brown spots on her four front teeth. i think this could be due to night feeding and partly because she hates having her teeth brushed and only tolerates a very quick few swipes. also, perhaps because of severe health problems right before i got pregnant.

i want to remineralize her teeth and have a quick question. i have some ghee but it is made with soyabean oil and palm oil primarily and am wondering if this is the right kind of ghee, or will i need to find another kind? also i was wondering if cooking with it would kill the minerals.

oh and has anyone heard of redmond real salts? they are full of minerals and i'm wondering if those are the right kind of minerals.

also, which homeopathics would be the best to start with? there don't seem to be any cavities, just kind of dark yellow spots along the gums.

thanks very much!
04-22-2008 09:01 PM
ramlita : <-- raw springtime butter
04-09-2008 12:59 PM
Originally Posted by babsiegirl View Post
I have an idea about using xylitol for night nursing. What if you made a solution of water and granular xylitol and put it in a little syringe thingy or dropper and every time your kid nursed at night, you slipped that in and "injected" a little xylitol into the mouth to do its thing?
A great idea . Problem for me is that I can't wake myself up after dd's been on the nipple for 20 min. I've tried but I'm so sleep-deprived from staying up late working.
04-09-2008 04:04 AM
Unconventional1 Babsiegirl: I agree that the mother's nutrition from pre-conception on until weaning has a huge impact on all of our LO's including their teeth. I took a hard look at my current diet after caries appeared on DS's teeth and realized that I was very deficient in vitamin D and calcium- both major problems that I had from pregnancy on. I feel terrible that i wasn't more careful about this and now DS is suffering as a result, but in the 1 1/2 weeks since my radical diet change, DS's teeth have not gotten any worse and there may even be some improvement also. I also stopped using toothpaste and started using xylitol granules. I wipe DS's teeth at least once per night after nursing as well and it also seem s to be making an impact. I will continue posting updates on our progress over the months.
04-08-2008 06:38 PM
babsiegirl Regarding night nursing and all those studies out there connecting night nursing to caries....What about the notion that our nutrition as mothers---the ones producing the milk from our very bodies, our very nutritional reserves----might be deficient in some way, some very important and crucial way, and therefore are giving our kids inadequate breast milk?

Not that momma's milk isn't still the best for our kids, but maybe our epidemic, intergenerational nutritional deficiencies are just catching up with us. I know that my own nutrition was not what it needed to be while gestating my little ones, what with severe morning sickness and a weird pica-like desire to drink soda----even though I normally hate the stuff. And my nutrition growing up wasn't great either, and neither was my mom's or my hubby's or his mom's. Hard to quickly overcome such things, I'd think. Even though now we're on a program of intense "rebuilding of the reserves" through nutrition, maybe this can only do so much once those little kid teeth are messed up, deficient of enamel, full of little holes, etc. ???? I'm not advocating stopping breast feeding, just saying that the best breast milk for our babies may be a thing of the past?

I think we need a real push for preconception nutrition in this country/world. The schools would be a great place for this, but they're a little obsessed with the old food pyramid approach to things. But I digress...
04-08-2008 05:45 PM
babsiegirl Everyone--
I have an idea about using xylitol for night nursing. What if you made a solution of water and granular xylitol and put it in a little syringe thingy or dropper and every time your kid nursed at night, you slipped that in and "injected" a little xylitol into the mouth to do its thing? Easier than waking up the kid....hard on momma because you have to be somewhat alert to pull this off at 2am, but for me, I'm usually half awake all night anyway, what with three kids and a snoring hubby in bed with me! (Fun, wouldn't trade it, but a challenge.) I'm wondering if anyone else has tried something like this.

We just started using zellies products, which, while expensive, are cheaper than dental visits, surgical procedures, etc. And a hell of a lot less invasive. I've read a lot about the stuff and I'm sold on most of it and am willing to use it as part of an intensive program of nutrition and tooth brushing and supplements, etc. Wonder if it'll work? Also, maybe have kids take a mint or chew the gum after brushing teeth and before bed? Or swish with solution of water and xyl.?

Love to hear other's ideas and efforts. Also, congrats everyone on hanging in there on this issue of caries in little kids (so sad) even though it's hard and time consuming and there's no seminal moment of "I was right all along!" or "I finally have the answer!"
Most people just go with the prevailing ideas of the day, so often wrong, and never get to the crux/real cause of the problem. I'm inspired here every time I check in. Grass roots, baby!
04-08-2008 03:57 AM
Unconventional1 eirual- I use Carlsons clo, it is lemon flavored so I can give it by the 1/4 teaspoon full to my son without problems, you can also try adding it to a variety of foods including smoothies, juice, salad dressings, etc.
04-08-2008 03:54 AM
Unconventional1 Ksenia- I don't think hygiene has a whole lot to do with ecc- I think that WAP is correct in his theory that cavities are mainly due to poor nutrition. That is why my family and I did a radical diet change- we are following the WAP advice by eating lots of bone broths; eating lots of raw, grass-fed dairy; taking clo (tested free of 28 different contaminants including lead and mercury) and we have eliminated cane sugar since it leaches calcium from the body (including teeth) and lowers blood serum levels of calcium inhibiting the teeth from building dentin. We also started using xylitol granules to wipe DS teeth down 4-5 times per day, plus 1-2 times per night after nursing (not every time, but it is to help keep his saliva flowing). I am not using a brush because his enamel is so soft that I am afraid of doing more damage right now. As his teeth grow dentin, I will happily switch back to brushing. The xylitol also helps to remineralize teeth.

After 1 1/2 weeks of xylitol use my teeth feel better and my gums don't bleed when I floss anymore. My son's teeth have stopped getting worse, and I see one or two areas of visible improvement. I am doing a photo diary (although it has been a bit difficult) so that I can visibly track the progress that we are making.
04-07-2008 01:45 AM
Any tips for getting CLO into a child?
I've had a couple things that have worked. Some flavors can be hidden in OJ (not a great drink, but I thought it was worth it to get the CLO into kiddos). Works best when the OJ is consumed through a straw. Our current routine is the cinnamon flavored CLO from Green Pastures. And my daughter added a twist--she has me sprinkle cinnamon onto the spoonful of CLO, thinks it's great. For marketing purposes, we call it cinnamon oil. I give the kids Thorne's vitamin K2 supp instead of HV butter oil, partly because it's cheaper and partly because it's easier to understand dosing. But clearly it's not a whole food, or even food-derived--it's synthetic. I don't know if anyone makes HVBO except the folks online (I forgot the name, but I've only seen one brand out there). Are there others?
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