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  Topic Review (Newest First)
10-16-2012 04:44 AM
mtiger
Quote:
Originally Posted by pek64 View Post

With it being volunteers and teachers also playing, I imagine they were fairly well behaved. See the Dodge ball thread in Talk Amongst Ourselves for some other stories. And post yours there as well!

 

Oh, I gather it was rather fierce.

10-15-2012 11:53 AM
pek64 With it being volunteers and teachers also playing, I imagine they were fairly well behaved. See the Dodge ball thread in Talk Amongst Ourselves for some other stories. And post yours there as well!
10-15-2012 11:22 AM
mtiger

Both of my kids' HSs had dodge ball competitions. Completely voluntary. My son's HS had no guidelines regarding the make-up of the teams, my daughter's did (1 student from each grade, two of each gender, plus a teacher). She was always the last one standing. Everyone had a good time - the kids participating, and the kids watching.
 

10-14-2012 09:23 AM
pek64 I HATED dodge ball! The boys always tried to hit the girls so hard it left marks! That "game" should be outlawed!

I imagine that comment will revive what should be a dying thread. After all, the event is over. Maybe I'll start a different thread about dodge ball.
10-14-2012 09:09 AM
CarrieMF
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtiger View Post

It really sounds as though they watered the whole thing down.

 

Or it was never originally as big of a deal as made out to be in this thread.

 

Our school has duct taped teachers(all volunteer) to the flagpole outside the school before as part of a goal for fundraising.  The last time they did it a male & female teacher were duct taped together on the pole.   The students watched them be taped up.  When they were done being taped & photos were taken for the yearbook & the local paper they were cut out.  It was not violent, they were not humiliated.  

 

In June at our family fun day there is always a dunk tank.  They also do a sponge throwing thing where the students stand behind a plywood knight and have their faces in the hole, the rest of their class throws the sponge at their face.  With both the dunk tank & the sponge only those who wish to go behind or in the tank do.  If they forced the kids to go in the tank or behind the plywood cutout I could see it being violent, but they don't.  Everyone has fun doing this.  This year at family fun day 2 of the teachers snuck up on the top of the school and started throwing water balloons towards the kids & parents.  Again everyone had fun.  

 

Nobody in the school takes these events and tries to do them to the classmates at other times.  They don't go around dunking kids when they are swimming for gym, they don't have random water balloons flying around, they don't go around duct taping kids to the walls.  

 

I don't see duct taping a teacher to the wall, dunk tanks, pie in the face events to be any more "violent" than dodge ball.

10-12-2012 08:07 AM
mtiger

It really sounds as though they watered the whole thing down.

10-12-2012 05:59 AM
puddle

OP again.  Last update.  The duct taping event actually occurred this week.  I'm not sure if this is how she did it in the past or not, but what she did this year was have the kids who met fund raising goals released from class for a few minutes at the end of the day, 1-2 grades at a time, to come stick their pieces of tape on her.  They filed past and added their tape and then went back to class.  Everything was cleaned up and put it away before school was dismissed, so only the kids participating ever saw anything.  I saw it from my car in the school pickup line.  I think what the kids were most excited about was getting to leave class for a few minutes.  They'd probably be a million times more motivated if she just let them leave class for a 10 minute snow cone party with the principal.  I think there are much better ways to show she's approachable than having them do something like this to her.  Like the way she wore an oversized football jersey and danced around with the kids at our school's family night out, also this week.  That was awesome, and I feel like that kind of thing goes a lot further with the elementary age group.  Anyway, it's over now and most of the kids never saw it or had anything to do with it, and it's unlikely to happen again at our school in the future.
 

10-09-2012 07:05 AM
AllisonR

I find it disturbing, in the torture/humiliation vein. I don't think I would want my 5yo and 8yo to see it. Maybe I would feel differently if they were teens, maybe even pre-teens. Interesting to read all the different views. I'd really rather see the principle on a tricycle with a wig. 

10-08-2012 07:56 PM
Tigerle I actually think my 5yo first grader would not think it fun but be seriously upset.
And i do not think that it should be taught to kids that age that humiliating somene who is helpless is fun...its just different if it is an activity that the person who is making an ass out of herself can control and show she is enjoying, like the trycycle idea, thats just cute.
I am picturing now the principal openly showing how much she is enjoying being duct taped, including her mouth...redface.gif
....and with that image printed indelibly inyour head, I'll bow out of this thread.
- runs off -
10-07-2012 11:24 PM
LynnS6

Is it any worse than having some of hte teachers shave their heads? Or the hands-free pie eating contest they're going to do at our school.

 

I get the concern with duct-tape over the mouth, but I think people are taking this far too seriously. They could just do away with that, and I'd be fine. It's the principal doing something silly to encourage the kids. Given the pressure that teachers, principals and kids can feel over school performance, having something to laugh about together is a good thing.

10-06-2012 09:10 PM
erigeron

Hmm, a lot of interesting points in this thread. It does seem to me that there are enough silly non-damaging things that could be done that something borderline-violent doesn't need to be chosen.

 

When I was in middle school, kids would put money in the teacher's jar and the teacher with the most money had to kiss a pig. Then in pharmacy school, same general idea, except you'd pay for a ticket and put it in the professor's jar and the professor with the most tickets would be pied, and if the ticket with your name on it was pulled you would get to hit them with the pie. (I think it was really whipped cream in a pie tin, or maybe shaving cream.) The only bummer about that was that only some professors would volunteer to participate and it was never the ones who you really WANTED to hit with a pie. lol. 

10-06-2012 08:36 PM
NiteNicole
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmarroq View Post

I know this has been going on for a long time with pies in the face or dunk tanks, etc. It still seems pretty disrespectful, no matter what it is that they are humiliating the principal with. The whole tradition seems weird and disrespectful to me, and the duct tape is just too extreme. It is restricting her movement. There was a daycare worker arrested around her for taping a child's mouth shut. It is not something to joke around about. The Kaylee Anthony case was right here in our back yard, and she too had her mouth duct taped. I would say something about it making you uncomfortable...the fact that they are physically "tying her down". I am sure they can do some other prank (I like the the singing of the school song from the roof of the school) or she can dye her hair the school colors or something less creepy. 

 

Plus, my kids watch TV and all those horrible kid's channels like Disney, Nick and CN have shows that have kids disrespecting adults constantly...and then they put that bad laugh track behind it, so kids think it's funny to be mean to adults...they don't need to see that in real life too! 

 

I think the point is that it's not supposed to be disrespectful, it's supposed to be fun.  It's supposed to show the principal or teacher is a good sport.  It's supposed to be like hey, the principal is not scary.  He/She has a good sense of humor and can laugh at herself.  It's such a switch from how we were supposed to view our principal when I was in school!  We were actively encouraged to be terrified of the man.  If the principal is willing to be a "good sport" for the sake of the school, it probably makes him/her a lot more approachable.  I'm not for or against it.  I just don't think it's all that deep.

 

I don't like those shows either, partly because it's such an us v. them mentality - parents are stupid, teachers are mean and stupid.  Gross is funny and it's funny to be mean.   We don't watch them.  And we talk about why we don't watch them. 

10-06-2012 07:06 PM
pek64 Another great idea -- coloring her hair the school colors! Plenty of options.
10-06-2012 06:59 PM
jmarroq

I know this has been going on for a long time with pies in the face or dunk tanks, etc. It still seems pretty disrespectful, no matter what it is that they are humiliating the principal with. The whole tradition seems weird and disrespectful to me, and the duct tape is just too extreme. It is restricting her movement. There was a daycare worker arrested around her for taping a child's mouth shut. It is not something to joke around about. The Kaylee Anthony case was right here in our back yard, and she too had her mouth duct taped. I would say something about it making you uncomfortable...the fact that they are physically "tying her down". I am sure they can do some other prank (I like the the singing of the school song from the roof of the school) or she can dye her hair the school colors or something less creepy. 

 

Plus, my kids watch TV and all those horrible kid's channels like Disney, Nick and CN have shows that have kids disrespecting adults constantly...and then they put that bad laugh track behind it, so kids think it's funny to be mean to adults...they don't need to see that in real life too! 

10-06-2012 06:31 PM
Natalya

To me it just seems stupid.  If I was a kid I don't think it would really make me want to sell more stuff.  It also doesn't seem that fun or funny...she couldn't think of anything better to do?
 

10-06-2012 05:47 PM
VisionaryMom

If our school reaches its goal, our principal is going to ride a tricycle through the school hallways wearing a clown wig. The kids are psyched about that possibility!

10-05-2012 07:59 PM
kathymuggle

I don't really like the duct-tape idea - particularly to the mouth.

 

I find taping someones mouth really inappropriate - it reminds me of kidnappings and, yes, torture.  I would not be surprised if some of the older kids in the room were uncomfortable by the whole thing, and, as is evident by this thread, a number of the parents!

10-05-2012 05:25 PM
lauren

When I read your thread title, I assumed you were having issues with your school and were angry enough to 'duct tape the principal to the wall!' I never heard of such a thing and I think it is kind of bizarre.  Some kids might have trauma around duct tape; at least some of the kids I've known in my work. I think it could be triggering for some kids.
 

10-05-2012 02:11 PM
rachelsmama

I still wonder if there are regional differences in feelings about duct tape.  Off to start a spin-off thread.
 

10-05-2012 01:57 PM
pek64
Quote:
Originally Posted by rachelsmama View Post

I think that's a pretty well thought out reason for your objection.  My personal answer to the question would be: I hope my kid grows up to be an adult who understands the difference between the duct-tape for charity scenario and duct-taping as an act of violence and occasionally does goofy and ridiculous things with consenting adults which may or may not include vollunteering to be duct-taped to a wall for charity. 

For the record, I'm not against goofy things. I think T.P. the principal would be acceptable. I think there were a couple other ideas I liked. And I'm sure my son knows the difference, that's not the point. I think either you understand what I'm trying to say, or not. And since the event already took place, anyway, I'll be letting this one go.
10-05-2012 12:54 PM
rachelsmama
Quote:
Originally Posted by pek64 View Post

 Ask yourself "what do I want this person to do or be like as an adult?" when faced with a choice.
If I ask that about duct-taping someone, the answer is "I would not want him to do it; not for charity or as an act of violence". That's my answer. Someone else may have a different answer. That's fine. But it doesn't change *my* answer.

I think that's a pretty well thought out reason for your objection.  My personal answer to the question would be: I hope my kid grows up to be an adult who understands the difference between the duct-tape for charity scenario and duct-taping as an act of violence and occasionally does goofy and ridiculous things with consenting adults which may or may not include vollunteering to be duct-taped to a wall for charity. 

10-05-2012 10:43 AM
pek64 I asked for input from my son on issues that affected him, but that's not quite the same as asking for help making a decision, in my opinion. But maybe that's what you mean.

As far as risking the connection goes -- I refuse to make any parenting decision out of fear. Whethet it be fear of losing a connection with my child, a peer, or a family member, I make my decisions and take my chances.

When making decisions, I use something I was told when I was first pregnant. Remember, children grow into adults, so you're not really raising a child, you are raising an adult. Ask yourself "what do I want this person to do or be like as an adult?" when faced with a choice.

If I ask that about duct-taping someone, the answer is "I would not want him to do it; not for charity or as an act of violence". That's my answer. Someone else may have a different answer. That's fine. But it doesn't change *my* answer.
10-04-2012 11:52 PM
meemee
Quote:
Originally Posted by pek64 View Post

 I wouldn't ask a 7 year old for help in making my parenting decisions.

actually i definitely have had a 7 year old help make parenting decisions. sometimes she knows a situation better than me (not specifically this particular situation) and reminds me its not as big as i am making it to be. dunno just coz i am the parent doesnt mean i know best. 

 

actually i AM listening a lot to what the kids say around me - esp now entering preteen.

 

sometimes being the old fashioned one means losing connection. 

 

so there is the other side too. 

10-04-2012 10:32 PM
pek64 Sometimes a parent has to be viewed as old fashioned in order to be the best parent he/she can be. I wouldn't ask a 7 year old for help in making my parenting decisions. I don't feel a principal needs to be the students' pal to be effective.
10-04-2012 09:55 PM
meemee

i shared this with a 7, 8 and 10 year old and when i told them this was bad, the children looked at me and said - you are old fashioned. they loved the idea.

 

i dont find it offensive either. would a 5 year old try to duct tape their mouth? would they be even able to tear the duct tape? or cut it with scissors without messing it up? 

 

i wish our principal would do something like this. but she steps out of the vogue and hardly connects with the kids. 

 

now if you had to bring up why 50 shades of grey is so popular THAT is a whole different story. 

09-25-2012 06:56 AM
ollyoxenfree
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerle View Post


But this is all in the family - nothing here being done to a parent to make a whole elementary school laught at them - i am sure you wouldn't have allowed your kids to do that!

 

Yes, it's all in the family. Um, that was the point. I was responding to FedUpMom's question about whether we would allow such "humiliation" within the family home, rather than at school: 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by FedUpMom View Post
Is there a mother in the world who says to her child, "if you clean your room I'll let you throw a pie in my face?"  Of course not.  Who would do such a crazy thing?

 

 

 

As for letting a whole elementary school laugh at the family - you don't know my husband. A bit of a clown.....  He wouldn't hesitate to sign up to sit in the dunk tank or take a pie in the face or whatever. I admit that I'm a little (lot) more reserved. 

 

 

OP, sounds like it's a good thing that you spoke up and it's going to all work out. There are lots of other ideas.....karaoke comes to mind. The principal could sing something selected by the students. Personally, I'd find it a lot more humiliating to have to stand up and sing before a crowd.  And I'm pretty sure lots of people would consider my singing offensive!! orngbiggrin.gif

09-25-2012 03:44 AM
Tigerle
Quote:
Originally Posted by ollyoxenfree View Post

 

Well - maybe not "if you clean your room I'll let you throw a pie in my face"....but when DD was small, she loved to create crazy hairstyles for DH using her hair clips and bows and ribbons. Sometimes she'd dress him up a little with scarves and other accessories. She knew she was making him look silly, but humiliating? We never felt it was humiliating. I let her use my make up on me and often ended up with a clown face. The kids and DH love to spray each other with the hose and throw soapy sponges when they wash the car (I don't but I don't really like that kind of horseplay, so they leave me out of it). The kids played magician and would create elaborate scenarios where you had to escape their "handcuffs" and ties. We've changed roles for a day...Lord of Misrule and all that (without the drunken revelry). These are the kinds of games that date back through antiquity. Not that it's appropriate just because it's an ancient practice, but it does explain the tradition and the appeal. 


But this is all in the family - nothing here being done to a parent to make a whole elementary school laught at them - i am sure you wouldn't have allowed your kids to do that!

09-25-2012 03:39 AM
Tigerle

I am glad that you were able to voice your concerns and the principal appeared receptive, not dismissive.

 

I'd like to comment on the controversy, having positioned myself so far one one side of the debate already:

 

I think it is too easy to just say "whatever she does, it is going to offend someone!"

There are some criteria I should consider to be objective for this kind of prank or stunt to be staged in an elementary school:

It should not be an act that invokes violence or would be actually dangerous if imitated by kids unless it were under extremely controlled circumstances. Duct tape bondage, including taping the mouth shut (I actually think the principal should step back from that commitment even now, citing major safety concerns) would be an extremely violent and degrading act if performed on someone without their consent, and of course life-threatening. And while I am sure the kindergartners would not recognize the sub-cultural allusion to BDSM, you can bet some of the 6th graders will - BDSM literature's been all over the media recently!

 

Dunking - haven't seen this done, but it would probably bother me too, depending on how much control the dunkee shows they're having - it was a very widepread medieval torture method and has recently been refined as waterboarding. I even think pie-ing is somewhat violent. Both would, however, be probably ruled out by my second criterion: the stunt should be something the principal does herself - there is a difference between making an ass of yourself and submitting voluntarily to a (normally humiliating) act done to you by others. She could get herself in a water bomb or shaving cream contest (of course you might say this invokes violence, but no more than a lot of competitive sports), dress up silly like others have suggested, sing silly songs...

 

And I am sure there are silly dress up ideas which do not offend anyone, or any sane person! is there a national association for the protection of turkeys, or fictional reindeers?

 

Should a principal have to consider the lessons her actions are teaching to elementary kids that exhaustively?

Yes! It's her profession!

09-24-2012 06:30 PM
puddle

OP here.  Update for those interested:

I e-mailed the principal my concerns, and she was receptive.  She said that although she has done this a couple of years now, she's never thought of the possibility of kids mimicking this behavior.  She's going through with it this year because she's already said she would and wants to honor that, but implied that she'll probably do something different in the future.

09-24-2012 11:55 AM
Geofizz

The line here is that the principal is agreeing that this is something she's comfortable with.  She's not doing this against her will.  If a principal is terrified of water, the principal shouldn't be agreeing to sit in a dunk tank.
 

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