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  Topic Review (Newest First)
07-30-2013 05:56 PM
Taximom5
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

I have no opinion on links between autism and intestinal problems. 

 

I do have an informed opinion the lack of links between autism and MMR vaccine. And I believe that time is being wasted going over and over the fact that there are no links between autism and MMR vaccine when the researchers could instead be using their time to look for the real causes of autism.

 

 They might even to look at links between autism and digestive problems if you like. What does that have to do with vaccination? Nothing as far as I can see. 

 

That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. And I don't appreciate constantly being told I'm not engaged and I'm unscientific because many of my views remain the same while I continue to engage with the counter opinion here. The same could be said of many other posters here. I do look at references which are linked (and often point out flaws in them which seem to typically be ignored) and so far I have seen no convincing evidence of a link between autism and MMR and no reason to suppose there should be such a link. 

 

(Yes I even look at the famous list of 50 studies which link autism to MMR vaccine via a seven degrees of separation method which I could use to link fear of spiders to MMR vaccines if I wanted to I suspect). 

Well, I'd say it's high time you looked into the issue.

 

In regressive autism with intestinal problems, the parental reports often identify the onset of the intestinal problems with the receipt of the MMR vaccine.

 

The longer the duration of the intestinal problems, the more severe the autism seems to be.  The more quickly the intestinal problems are addressed, the more imporvement seems to be made.

 

What if it turns out that both intestinal and neurological problems of autism could be avoided or at least drastically reduced by going back to individual measles, mumps, and rubella vaccines? Or by reformulating the MMR?  Or by specific diet changes the week preceding and following MMR administration?  

 

What if it turns out that both sets of problems are exacerbated by administering MMR in the same visit as other vaccines?  Or during flu season?  

 

What if it turns out that infants who were not breastfed were more likely to have such reactions?  (Oh, wait, we already know that that's true.  Are you starting to understand yet?)

 

It's absolutely ridiculous that those who have been injured have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they HAVE been injured--and in large numbers-- before a product like vaccines gets the EXACT kind of scrutiny necessary, while a few cases of measles is treated like an epidemic.

07-29-2013 04:58 AM
prosciencemum

I have no opinion on links between autism and intestinal problems. 

 

I do have an informed opinion the lack of links between autism and MMR vaccine. And I believe that time is being wasted going over and over the fact that there are no links between autism and MMR vaccine when the researchers could instead be using their time to look for the real causes of autism.

 

 They might even to look at links between autism and digestive problems if you like. What does that have to do with vaccination? Nothing as far as I can see. 

 

That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it. And I don't appreciate constantly being told I'm not engaged and I'm unscientific because many of my views remain the same while I continue to engage with the counter opinion here. The same could be said of many other posters here. I do look at references which are linked (and often point out flaws in them which seem to typically be ignored) and so far I have seen no convincing evidence of a link between autism and MMR and no reason to suppose there should be such a link. 

 

(Yes I even look at the famous list of 50 studies which link autism to MMR vaccine via a seven degrees of separation method which I could use to link fear of spiders to MMR vaccines if I wanted to I suspect). 

07-29-2013 04:36 AM
Taximom5 No, prosciencemum, that's grossly inaccurate. Those further studies "found no link," which as a scientist, you know is completely different than, "found that there was no link."

You're also forgetting that many of those studies were reviews of previous case reports and studies, all of which relied on reports from doctors who believed that autistic children did not have and could nòt have had intestinal problems, and never tested them for it. The rest of the studies were, as you know, purposely set up to show no link, just as the initial Vioxx studies were set up to show no link with severe adverse effects.

The Walker study not only showed that a subset of autistic children do have significant intestinal damage, it suggested a genetic origin.

The main legal argument against Wakefield was that the children in his paper did not have "autistic enterocolitis" because such a thing supposedly did not exist. A huge portion of the case was centered around the fact that he performed colonoscopies on the children, even though that would have been the standard of care for non-autistic children, and even though the parents had been begging doctors to believe that there were severe intestinal issues all along. Other parts of the case centered around other doctors' records of the children, which did not mention symptoms, even though the parents say that they reported them. (You'd think no one had ever heard of doctors who don't really lísten...)

I find it very interesting that you want to keep repeating the old, flawed view that there is no such thing as autism-linked severe intestinal problems, rather than discussing the Walker study, referenced above, which proves those very problems.
07-29-2013 02:28 AM
prosciencemum

I'm probably not allowed to link to the blog which I read this on (it's called "The Poxes Blog: Wash Your Hands for God's Sake" if anyone want's to Google it but warning they blogger is not polite about views against vaccinating), but it also has a post about how Wakefield was right all along. Many many researchers have backed up the final statement from his retracted original paper which stated: 

 

"We did not prove an association between measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and the syndrome described. Virological studies are underway that may help to resolve this issue.”

 

All those further studies that have been done all found that there was also no link between MMR and the syndrome described. 

07-28-2013 09:32 PM
Taximom5 Unfortunately, an awful lot of these news sources (like HealthImpactNews) have really poor writers. It drives me crazy that they have sensationalist headlines, and then crappy, poorly written articles full of errors; this particular article doesn't even make the point relative to the headline until 2/3 of the way thought the article.

The court cases may or may not be retaliated to the 2013 Walker et al study. They are certainly important to know about regarding the vaccine-autism link, but the headline of the article is about confirmation of Wakefield's 1998 paper on enterocolitis in autistic children, not about court cases of vaccine induced seizures and resultant brain damage.

In addition, Wakefield didn't "discover" intestinal disease in autistic children. The parents discovered it. He was just the first gastrointestinal specialist to listen to the parents, and run the tests that would have been run on any non-autistic child with the same symptoms.

The Walker study found indication of a gene expression profile unique to autistic children with ileocolitis. Yes, this supports Wakefield's original report of a novel bowel disease amongst children with regressive autism. It even goes a step further and looks at gene expression.

But the article also clearly states: "Currently, it is not clear whether the mucosal inflammatory changes seen in ASDGI children represent a milder variant of inflammatory bowel disease or whether a novel pathogenic process is underway. "

I REALLY wish these websites could afford to hire someone who can actually write. These lousy writers are doing such a sloppy job, they're ruining it for everyone
07-28-2013 11:48 AM
cynthia mosher

What specifically was he right about in this case?

06-21-2013 04:12 AM
emmy526

http://healthimpactnews.com/2013/new-published-study-verifies-andrew-wakefields-research-on-autism-again/

 

 

Quote:
Later the same month, the government suffered a second major defeat when young Emily Moller from Houston won compensation following vaccine-related brain injury that, once again, involved MMR and resulted in autism. The cases follow similar successful petitions in the Italian and US courts (including Hannah Poling [ii], Bailey Banks [iii], Misty Hyatt [iv], Kienan Freeman [v], Valentino Bocca [vi], and Julia Grimes [vii]) in which the governments conceded or the court ruled that vaccines had caused brain injury. In turn, this injury led to an ASD diagnosis. MMR vaccine was the common denominator in these cases.

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