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  Topic Review (Newest First)
06-15-2008 11:29 PM
janasmama
Quote:
Originally Posted by laketahoemama View Post
I'm wondering though...do safety standards and such take into account the fact that a smaller, lighter car can out maneuver a bigger car any day of the week, and thereby avoid a crash altogether? Or do they just focus on the survival rate once you've crashed?

I own a suv and it seemed to me that all the talk about safety seemed to be coming from the industry and their marketing hype, I'm not sure I buy that suvs are truly safer then smaller cars.

Crash tests are done by independent testing sites. And as far as maneuverability, a car can handle great, but if the driver doesn't know how or what to do than all that maneuverability goes out the door so I wouldn't think that they can base the safety on that, it would simply be a selling feature.
06-14-2008 02:24 PM
doublyblessed i have an isuzu trooper i can't seem to be rid of...........it just sits out there...ugh.
06-14-2008 01:51 PM
barose
Quote:
Originally Posted by laketahoemama View Post
I'm wondering though...do safety standards and such take into account the fact that a smaller, lighter car can out maneuver a bigger car any day of the week, and thereby avoid a crash altogether? Or do they just focus on the survival rate once you've crashed?
It depends on the make/models of the cars. I'm not sure about SUVs because I have only driven an X3 when we needed a courtesy car/loaner from our dealership, but our mid size sedans have excellent handling as well as high crash test ratings. Better than any smaller cars (different makes though) that I tested.
06-14-2008 11:56 AM
laketahoemama I'm wondering though...do safety standards and such take into account the fact that a smaller, lighter car can out maneuver a bigger car any day of the week, and thereby avoid a crash altogether? Or do they just focus on the survival rate once you've crashed?

I own a suv and it seemed to me that all the talk about safety seemed to be coming from the industry and their marketing hype, I'm not sure I buy that suvs are truly safer then smaller cars.
06-12-2008 10:19 PM
meowee I think it's bad form to celebrate rising gas prices. The hardest hit are not the uber ruch. It's the people in the middle and near the bottom who must have a car to drive to work, especially those in rural areas where there is no public transport whatsoever.
06-12-2008 10:12 PM
madskye Kind of interesting--my SIL's work is switching their company cars to Ford Escape Hybrids. I thought that was kind of cool since it will replace the whole fleet--I hope other work places start looking at hybrids as company cars.
06-12-2008 02:48 PM
janasmama We bought a Saturn Outook and it gets aroudn 23 mpg. Not the best but it is super roomy and Saturn is a great company that even has plants with zero waste. The car isn't always the bottom line but the ethics of the company and how they run themselves also.
06-12-2008 01:40 PM
Past_VNE An incredible alternative to the Prius is the VW Jetta TDI (diesel.) If you get a manual, add a performance chip and drive gently, you can get over 50 mpg consistently on the highway.

For lots of around-town, the Prius is great, but if you do more highway driving, check out the Jetta.

We avg 43 town and 54 highway. We've gotten a high as 59. That is way more than enough to offset the higher price tag on diesel fuel.

And, it runs like a dream on alternative fuels.

We drive an 01 Jetta. The fuel mileage varies by year, as they changed the hp/torque ratings a lot.
06-12-2008 01:21 PM
Toolip
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuntLavender View Post

That being said we still see tons of SUVs with only the driver in them and I can't help but feel they could be driving something more fuel effecient.

Before rving my DH rode his bike 30 miles round trip to work - he only ran on natural gas then eh? LOL!

: and to the one passenger SUV


A HUGE for biking 30 miles to work and back!! Wohooo!!
06-12-2008 01:12 PM
Boobs
Quote:
Originally Posted by barose View Post
I know this wasn’t directed at me (no SUVs in our family), but what you said is the reason why I don’t want a small sedan. Sure, we can save $$ and gas, but with all of the huge SUVs around, I want more protection. I admire the folks around here who drive those tiny two seater electric cars – just not for me.
I see your point. I do. But, it's this logic that is so harmful to the very air we breathe.
06-12-2008 01:05 PM
PassionateWriter see, im one of those ppl you will see during teh day w/ only a baby in the car. and an SUV. but i have to pick up my 10 yo later and in oct. new baby will be here and then there is older teen and dp who like to attend things too.

but im getting 28/32 if i drive the right way.
06-12-2008 12:56 PM
AuntLavender It's a diesel 2000 Ford Excursion. We pull our 34 foot camper with it. We bought it because it's tow rating is 10,000 pounds. We are a family of six. We only drive the one vehicle and we drive 15,000 miles per year. Less than most two car families!

We've thought about converting it to SVO but have not heard much good news related to long term use. (Repairs, etc.)

We get 12 MPG pulling our camper. It we had a gas Excursion we'd get 5-7 MPG. When we don't have the camper we get 18MPG (16 city).

When we're done rving we'll sell our SUV. There is lots of interest in it since Ford doesn't make them anymore and it's diesel and can be converted to run on SVO.

That being said we still see tons of SUVs with only the driver in them and I can't help but feel they could be driving something more fuel effecient. I'm not sure what we'll get. We're six people so we need a larger vehicle. My neighbor has a Honda hybrid sedan but it won't hold us all.

Before rving my DH rode his bike 30 miles round trip to work - he only ran on natural gas then eh? LOL!
06-12-2008 12:40 PM
barose
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boobs View Post
I have two concerns with the SUV for safety line of thinking. First, safer for who? Just you and your family. What about the cars you're sharing the road with? I also know that there are plenty of highly rated for safety cars. Consumer Reports is a good place to find the ratings.
I know this wasn’t directed at me (no SUVs in our family), but what you said is the reason why I don’t want a small sedan. Sure, we can save $$ and gas, but with all of the huge SUVs around, I want more protection. I admire the folks around here who drive those tiny two seater electric cars – just not for me.

06-12-2008 12:10 PM
Ifluffedthree While this is better for the overall consumption of gasoline it hurts our economy greatly. The trickle down effect hurts employment, consumer purchases, luxery purchases, the trucking industry, housing market, food -- everything. It is not just one change for the better as it is all tied into one kitty.
Mornings @ WSJ have been reporting sales have dropped greatly and compacts have gained value.

The local Pittsburgh Financial programs are reporting an expected 7.00 a gallon before this is all said and done.

However,fresh water is going to be our worlds much MUCH bigger concern in the near future.
06-12-2008 11:22 AM
PassionateWriter I agree that the "safety" issue as a reason for driving an SUV is alot of the problem getting ppl out of them. I dont even know what to say to combat that argument though, b/c they will fare better in an accident and since most of the vehicles on the street are larger, a person in a small car is more likely to get really injured (although im biased and have seen some awesome accidents b/w small Mercedes and larger suv's where the Benz actually fared better). unfortunately, i dont think thats the "usual" circumstance.

i HATE having a larger vehicle (i love my car but i hate that its so big). i wish i could wait until new baby is born before using it but i had to sell my car and the gas mileage is about the same as my car was (b/c its diesel)....i just feel guilt driving it w just me and baby during the day but i dont have a 3d vehicle to drive and my partner commutes to boston and we dont want him using it as a commuting vehicle, since the diesel is more expensive than gas that his car uses.

my solution is that i cut down on the amount of driving i do. i consolidate everything i can. there is NO joy riding. and driving is at the speedlimit (ive increased a lot of mpg's due to that fact alone).
06-12-2008 09:32 AM
Boobs I guess that did come across a little more harshly than I intended. Sorry. If you could hear the tone in my head you wouldn't be offended.

I have two concerns with the SUV for safety line of thinking. First, safer for who? Just you and your family. What about the cars you're sharing the road with? I also know that there are plenty of highly rated for safety cars. Consumer Reports is a good place to find the ratings.

Green living isn't something we're doing to earn some kind of bonus points and that's what it sounds like when people say things like "Well, I cloth diaper so it's okay if I buy a new Tahoe. I'm still doing my part." Really? It seems to me that a gas guzzling, pollutant fuming tanker nixes out all the other efforts. It also sends a message to oil companies and auto makers that we're still okay with destroying the planet. Are we? Are we really so elitist that we think we deserve to be safer than everybody else and use up more gas than everybody else?
Why can't we cloth diaper, line dry clothes, buy organic, AND drive a sensible vehicle?
I'm just saying, if you CAN buy a smaller car, especially a hybrid, for the love of life, DO IT. Very very few people really need SUVs. I certainly don't. Anybody want mine?
06-11-2008 08:37 PM
astar326
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassionateWriter View Post
when is bio diesel going to become available in my area?

how much are you paying for it? i want bio diesel!!
when i filled up last month it was $4.39. I'm not sure what's it's up to now, but it's comparable to reg diesel.
06-11-2008 07:49 PM
jeca
Quote:
Originally Posted by barose View Post

There are tons of other things DP and I do that would be considered “green living”. Our cars should not disqualify us.
Word.
06-11-2008 07:32 PM
barose
Quote:
Originally Posted by janasmama View Post
We all have our own ways of living green. Maybe one person doesn't cloth diaper but the next does while driving her Tahoe. Or maybe I use a clothesline to dry my clothes....There are a thousand other ways to be green, not everyone is going to fit into a green box.
[quote=oneotamama;11445598]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boobs View Post
I don't mean to sound snarky or anything, but what planet do you plan to live on? I mean, I can't believe the things I'm reading in this thread are in the GREEN LIVING FORUM.

QUOTE]

How is that NOT supposed to sound snarky??? And just b/c someone chooses to drive their larger car to be safe versus saving that 3 mpg in a smaller vehicle, doesn't mean they're not doing other Green Living things, kwim? I have my own vegetable garden, we use cloth wipes, I use cloth menstrual pads, we compost, we use paraben-free products, does that not count??
: to both

I was feeling a little guilty for driving two high performance sedans, but in green living you take some and lose some. Safety is #1 for me and I just don’t feel comfortable driving or riding in small sedans no matter how much gas it would save.

There are tons of other things DP and I do that would be considered “green living”. Our cars should not disqualify us.
06-11-2008 07:23 PM
janasmama
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boobs View Post
I don't mean to sound snarky or anything, but what planet do you plan to live on? I mean, I can't believe the things I'm reading in this thread are in the GREEN LIVING FORUM.

I drive an SUV that gets 27 mpg. We're stuck with it for the long haul. If I could trade it in on a Prius or heck, a Corolla for that matter, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
We all have our own ways of living green. Maybe one person doesn't cloth diaper but the next does while driving her Tahoe. Or maybe I use a clothesline to dry my clothes....There are a thousand other ways to be green, not everyone is going to fit into a green box.
06-11-2008 04:19 PM
oneotamama [QUOTE=Boobs;11445531]I don't mean to sound snarky or anything, but what planet do you plan to live on? I mean, I can't believe the things I'm reading in this thread are in the GREEN LIVING FORUM.

QUOTE]

How is that NOT supposed to sound snarky??? And just b/c someone chooses to drive their larger car to be safe versus saving that 3 mpg in a smaller vehicle, doesn't mean they're not doing other Green Living things, kwim? I have my own vegetable garden, we use cloth wipes, I use cloth menstrual pads, we compost, we use paraben-free products, does that not count??
06-11-2008 03:09 PM
Boobs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebecca View Post
this is exactly why we chose the cars we did. Last year a drunk driver plowed into our house and 2 parked cars, which is why now we have 2 new cars. generally we drive our cars until it costs too much to fix them anymore, but our last camry and odyssey were totalled.

We decided it's not worth the gas mileage of driving a teeny little tin can to save a few bucks if you don't get to live. We want to survive an accident, so we chose cars with lots of steel, airbags and good consumer report crash test results. Gas be damned, I want to live!


I don't mean to sound snarky or anything, but what planet do you plan to live on? I mean, I can't believe the things I'm reading in this thread are in the GREEN LIVING FORUM.

I drive an SUV that gets 27 mpg. We're stuck with it for the long haul. If I could trade it in on a Prius or heck, a Corolla for that matter, I'd do it in a heartbeat.
06-07-2008 11:31 PM
Rebecca
Quote:
Originally Posted by oneotamama View Post
but I must say that sometimes comfort and safety outweigh the 3 mpg difference, yk?
this is exactly why we chose the cars we did. Last year a drunk driver plowed into our house and 2 parked cars, which is why now we have 2 new cars. generally we drive our cars until it costs too much to fix them anymore, but our last camry and odyssey were totalled.

We decided it's not worth the gas mileage of driving a teeny little tin can to save a few bucks if you don't get to live. We want to survive an accident, so we chose cars with lots of steel, airbags and good consumer report crash test results. Gas be damned, I want to live!
06-07-2008 11:29 PM
Rebecca We have a Toyota Camry and Sienna (minivan). We considered trading in the Camry for a 'gerbil car' as we affectionately call a fuel-sipping compact. But it's silly for us. THe camry gets great mileage for its class, it's very safe, it's new and it's paid for. We drive this car most often.

And I have a van. It's also new (2 yrs old), paid for and wonderfully convenient. Dh wanted to sell this but then I wouldn't be able to pick up my kids friends from school, pack the back for a weekend camping trip, carpool with another family, haul stuff from Home Depot.... we don't go joyriding in it, but it IS convenient when we need to haul a bunch of people or things.

If we had payments on either car we might consider trading them, but already, we don't drive much... we might fill either of them every 2-3 weeks.

There will always be people who want or think they need a suv or van. Post it on Craigslist, call the dealership about a trade.. you can unload it if you need to, I'm sure.
06-07-2008 06:47 PM
oneotamama I guess pertaining to the OP, my 1998 Tahoe has been sitting on the car lot for quite some time though So yeah, I think people are thinking about gas mileage more now.
06-07-2008 06:46 PM
oneotamama I sell used cars and frequently change what type of vehicle I drive. Currently I'm driving a 2000 Chrysler Town & Country that gets 19 mpg. The 1998 Chevy Tahoe that I drove before the van got 15 mpg. Not much of a difference, and frankly I prefer the comfort of the Tahoe. I consider myself pretty green, but I must say that sometimes comfort and safety outweigh the 3 mpg difference, yk?
06-07-2008 01:14 PM
janasmama
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMike View Post
Someone else mention American drilling. That's another reason I'm slightly hesitant to celebrate. I'm afraid that more and more people will be very willing to drill for oil in Alaska in order to relieve some of the prices. Also, am I the only one who doesn't see extra drilling as a solution. Environmental reasons aside, do you think a surplus in domestic oil is really going to drop prices dramaticaly? I think half of this "oil crisis" is a scam by the oil companies. If it was a true crisis, the folks at those companies would be suffering just as much as us, not raking in extra high profits and buying their 4th house, ya know? Oil companies are happily getting used to these nice profits and I'm sure they'll figure out some excuse to always charge higher.
One thing I do celebrate is the report that companies are decreasing the amount of SUVs they manufactur. I also heard that production of the Hummer might be completely halted. Woo-hoo!
I don't think the prices will really ever drop. Maybe by .25 or so but not much. I'm surprised we havent' come up with some kind of synthetic fuel that the average gasoline car can use.

They probably have one but are keeping it secret. Maybe this is just another step to getting rid of the middle class.
06-07-2008 11:36 AM
PassionateWriter
Quote:
Originally Posted by astar326 View Post
i sold my gas gas-guzzling jeep liberty in for a mercedes diesel (running on biodiesel). this combined with me biking and walking to work most days (only a mile and a half commute) means that i fill up every 4 months!!! we also walk to the local market for fresh local produce each week.
when is bio diesel going to become available in my area?

how much are you paying for it? i want bio diesel!!
06-07-2008 09:56 AM
astar326
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrsMike View Post
Someone else mention American drilling. That's another reason I'm slightly hesitant to celebrate. I'm afraid that more and more people will be very willing to drill for oil in Alaska in order to relieve some of the prices. Also, am I the only one who doesn't see extra drilling as a solution. Environmental reasons aside, do you think a surplus in domestic oil is really going to drop prices dramaticaly? I think half of this "oil crisis" is a scam by the oil companies. If it was a true crisis, the folks at those companies would be suffering just as much as us, not raking in extra high profits and buying their 4th house, ya know? Oil companies are happily getting used to these nice profits and I'm sure they'll figure out some excuse to always charge higher.
One thing I do celebrate is the report that companies are decreasing the amount of SUVs they manufactur. I also heard that production of the Hummer might be completely halted. Woo-hoo!
:
06-07-2008 09:43 AM
MrsMike Ouch. I have very mixed feelings on this issue. Part of me is happy about the rising fuel prices. I live in a very yuppie area where SUVs are used as status symbols and a way to keep up with the Jonses, and are not used because they have 4+ kids or a lot of stuff to haul. These are the "bigger is better" types and they frequently go for the Expeditions and the Hummers. For them, I don't really care if they struggle with the gas prices. Then, I have my friend who owns a Mountaineer. She originally got it because she does a ton of crafting and is hauling all of her goods to craft shows. She also sells Arbonne and keeps her truck stopped. She also used to have two very large dogs (one died of bones cancer last summer) and she figured it would be easier to haul them in an SUV. She got it for the room. She is really struggling now and has not been able to afford to fill her tank. The thing gets 12 mpg and I don't think she could give it away. I also feel bad for people who use them for work. I'm a licensed vet tech and I work with large animal veterinarians a lot. They use pick-up trucks and larger SUVs because those trucks are their mobile office. They have to be able to haul a mini vet clinic in those things.
Someone else mention American drilling. That's another reason I'm slightly hesitant to celebrate. I'm afraid that more and more people will be very willing to drill for oil in Alaska in order to relieve some of the prices. Also, am I the only one who doesn't see extra drilling as a solution. Environmental reasons aside, do you think a surplus in domestic oil is really going to drop prices dramaticaly? I think half of this "oil crisis" is a scam by the oil companies. If it was a true crisis, the folks at those companies would be suffering just as much as us, not raking in extra high profits and buying their 4th house, ya know? Oil companies are happily getting used to these nice profits and I'm sure they'll figure out some excuse to always charge higher.
One thing I do celebrate is the report that companies are decreasing the amount of SUVs they manufactur. I also heard that production of the Hummer might be completely halted. Woo-hoo!
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