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  Topic Review (Newest First)
12-07-2012 11:39 AM
ettieg

That's how I read it, too, Keeta.

 

 

Kids pick up so many cues from our reactions that often drive their own response.  Same is true of scrapped knees and laughter.  Enjoying the piece veru much.

01-17-2012 01:12 PM
mrscookie

On the issue of polite requests and saying thank you, my 3yo does this for the most part, although sometimes he's impulsive and says "MORE ORANGES!!!". Sometimes, I'd ask him whether he could make that a polite request, and he would, or I would just confirm "You'd like more oranges, please?", and sometimes he'd say he wants me to ask politely for him. I'm not sure if this is entirely in the spirit of the book, but I do make it a request for him to address me in a manner I like, but honor it when he says that he's not able to at that time (especially when he's upset about something). 

 

I do think he's very conscious of how people talk to each other and understand that it helps people to feel respected when communication is polite. He'll sometimes point out if I don't say "you're welcome" or well note if someone squeezes by us on the street without saying "excuse me." 

04-05-2009 09:49 AM
foodmachine Welcome doublyblessed. Cool you are found your way here.
I thought about you today when I read part of Chapter 4 (re: the word "hate"). I hope other mamas from our UC parenting book group find their way here. There's so much to discuss!
04-04-2009 07:55 PM
doublyblessed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy View Post
just started reading not all the way through the chapter yet but I am a drama adder and I didnt realize it! Im going to tone it down and try to just be more reflective!
i'm a drama-adder too...now i will do my best to tone it down...emit it, even...sigh...how i LIKE drama, though!!!
04-04-2009 07:38 PM
doublyblessed
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodmachine View Post
I hear you. I felt that way when Aldort talks about not expecting "please" and "thank you". I was like "but that's important!" However, I think Aldort would say these thoughts reflect our needs not our child's - our need for them to respectful or polite.

Of course isn't great to be screamed at but Grandma can take it .
I think (hope) Amber comes and apologizes to Grandma later.
hopefully i haven't come to this ch 1 study too late...i figure some of us will arrive later & still find this thread useful despite...

i think most of our social norms for respect/politeness stems from OUR own issues, our own needs to seek approval and to not offend because of this. our own fears that people won't like us and will judge us or shun us... (or our dc!) of course, i also do not like when my dd is rude to her grandma either. but i do not expect her to behave any which way...polite or impolite. i remind my mother (and myself for that matter!!!) to try not to take it personally and to not react in a nasty way in return...that my dd is obviously going thru something...insecurity or wanting to feel like a big girl and not be babied...or visa versa...something. to love her unconditionally no matter what.

my dd recently yelled out the window to her friends' mother I HATE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! when they were leaving as my dd was upset that her friends' mom had arrived to p/u her dd earlier than expected.

i didn't know what to do in re. to this...i did remind my dd that we do not talk to people like that-anyone. & that that is hurtful to people's hearts...that df's mother didn't mean to hurt my dd by arriving early.

and when i saw dd's friends mom at school the other morning i said 'hey, i'm so sorry if you were upset when M yelled she hates you out the window'. you know what she said...? she said 'oh...no big deal... i'm tougher than that...!' and i said...'yeah, i figured!' and that was that. i apologized more out of fear and embarassment that she might think less of me and/or my dd vs. being polite.

i don't make my dd say please and thank you or i'm sorry...sometimes a 'look' is all it takes IMHO. why make or expect her to say it if it isn't genuine? like alfie kohn says in unconditional parenting, it is only temporary, not something she will do just 'because' she feels for others'. only for temporary 'rewards' to pacify/appease us. although my dd's waldorf school is very BIG on manners...which i can't STAND...so i do find myself acting like miss manners when i'm there...don't get me wrong, i have 'manners' (well not always ;O) but i only believe it should come from the heart...not just cuz its 'expected' to me that is conditional love/acceptance and that is NOT ok w/ me...i don't expect that from any child...or adult for that matter.
04-04-2009 07:23 PM
doublyblessed me too! that is really great! i'm going to post that in my house...maybe in a few places...

Quote:
Originally Posted by green_momma2007 View Post
I really like your way of describing it: Don't feed the fire, just comment on the flames.
03-30-2009 05:51 PM
foodmachine Welcome!
03-30-2009 01:22 PM
Super Glue Mommy
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_momma2007 View Post
I think the S part is really good. I feel that most of the time I'm just reacting before I even have a chance to really think about it. So I will definitely try to hold my tongue.
One thing bothered me though. The scenario where she says that it's sometimes better to not say anything, the child screams at the grandma. I would totally be put off by that, particularly by a 5 year old. I'm thinking I would have said: Oh you're upset, Grandma's upset too. I feel bad when people scream at me.
I have a hard time letting kids be disrespectful, especially to Grandmas!
This has been hard for me to grasp as well. What about when other's safety is involved? my son throws toys all over the place and they end up hitting people in the head or he throws it at us so there is a no throwing toys in the living room rule because we need to respect that space in the house belongs to everyone - so we go together to his room, I let him have his feelings there, I listen, we problem solve, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by green_momma2007 View Post
I really like your way of describing it: Don't feed the fire, just comment on the flames.
im putting this one in my notes! love it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by foodmachine View Post
I hear you. I felt that way when Aldort talks about not expecting "please" and "thank you". I was like "but that's important!" However, I think Aldort would say these thoughts reflect our needs not our child's - our need for them to respectful or polite.

Of course isn't great to be screamed at but Grandma can take it .
I think (hope) Amber comes and apologizes to Grandma later.
oh yes, its amazing how many things we expect our children to do because its important to us, and sometimes we don't even know why!

Quote:
Originally Posted by green_momma2007 View Post
As I read this book, I feel a struggle to accept what she's saying. It's like I'm screaming inside: But if I don't do anything they are going to run wild and turn into crazy savage adults who don't care about others!
And while I was mulling over this thought yesterday I realized something. There are basically two ways of viewing human nature. Either we are essentially good or essentially evil. Even though I've changed my way of parenting in many ways to reflect AP, I think deep down inside I still hold on to the idea that we are evil. That's why I'm so reluctant to accept some of Aldort's ideas. I guess I think that if I don't micromanage my children's behavior that they will turn out bad.
So I have to keep reminding myself that my children are inherently good and if I provide love and guidance they will turn out allright.
I have this problem too! I like her example somewhere before the first chapter where she talks about children being like a flower - that you can give water and sunlight too, but can't pry the bud open or change the colors of the petals. There is a quote that reminds me of, but I can't remember exactly what it is... about not trying to make a sunflower be a rose but to just nourish it into the best possible sunflower... something like that, maybe not a sunflower lol... I'll post if I remember the quote... but basically if you nourish they flourish!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keeta View Post
I really hear what you're saying. It is a serious leap of faith, right? Especially since it's soooo process oriented and the results won't be in for years whether it was a good plan or not.

Something that helps me occasionally is to take your initial resistance about something - say, that your kid shouldn't have a cookie right now - and taking it all the way through the argument to the end. Why shouldn't they have a cookie? Because they won't eat "real" food later. So what? Then they'll be unhealthy. And? They'll get sick and die. Kind of taking it to the most extreme conclusion lets you see that maybe you can say yes more to your child AND feel less reluctance about it because your argument was based on a false premise. It doesn't always work for me, but sometimes it helps to shake me out of my singular "I'm the mom and I know what's important/right" point of view.
i think it also helps to understand what something working means. Some think if they see xyz outward result then it's working. or that if hasn't worked if that outward result isnt there. sometimes I have a hard time letting go of what the outward result might be. of course its important on some level, but not the level that should be our main focus.
03-30-2009 01:10 PM
Super Glue Mommy
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodmachine View Post
Hi! I'm hooked. I'm practicing the Self-talk with my DH. I definitely have a problem of opening my mouth TOO fast.
I guess there will be some clarification to come, but I little confused by 3 things:
1) Aldort says don't put in your perception or but has the adult saying "What a bummer" on pages 2 and 25.
2)How do you know when to "name the emotions" and when to steer clear (see example bottom p 24 and p 25)? Practice and knowing your child perhaps.
3)There is a lot of talk about not adding "drama". What is example of drama a well-meaning Mom might add?

Fun to get started!
just started reading not all the way through the chapter yet but I am a drama adder and I didnt realize it! Im going to tone it down and try to just be more reflective!
02-19-2009 07:26 AM
foodmachine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazelnut View Post
ooh I have this waiting to be read-- hope to join you tonight when I get a chance to start it.
Welcome Hazelnut!
02-19-2009 03:53 AM
edamama
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keeta View Post
I know, this one is hard for me, too. I think I might try to switch over to "Oh no, ______ happened" and then eventually phase out the "Oh no" part. Baby steps are good steps!



My guy is 2.5, so I hear ya. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is to possibly brainstorm some choices for the next step? Or by providing options is that limiting their universe too much? Maybe even a more open-ended question would be helpful, like "What should we do next?" I can see DS answering this one both on topic (like "clean up the spilled juice with a towel") or totally not ("Watch Clifford!" )


Thanks, both of those suggestions are helpful!
02-18-2009 09:43 PM
foodmachine The Chapter 2 thread is up. See you all over there soon.
02-18-2009 09:24 PM
green_momma2007 I started the chapter 2 thread, but I believe it has to be approved by a moderator, so it may take a while to show up. Happy reading!
02-18-2009 08:10 PM
Keeta
Quote:
Originally Posted by allielb View Post
One thing I have a hard time with is that I automatically say "I'm sorry" when anything happens. Aldort says that can make a child feel like a victim and blame others for their emotions.
I know, this one is hard for me, too. I think I might try to switch over to "Oh no, ______ happened" and then eventually phase out the "Oh no" part. Baby steps are good steps!

Quote:
Originally Posted by allielb View Post
Also, I have a hard time with the E part, empower you child to resolve her own upset. I am very quick to fix things for DD or redirect her. I'm not sure how literally to take this since DD is almost 2, there are lots of things she can't really do. How does the E work with a toddler?
My guy is 2.5, so I hear ya. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is to possibly brainstorm some choices for the next step? Or by providing options is that limiting their universe too much? Maybe even a more open-ended question would be helpful, like "What should we do next?" I can see DS answering this one both on topic (like "clean up the spilled juice with a towel") or totally not ("Watch Clifford!" )

Not sure on this one. Sometimes I find that it's helpful to provide a real-life situation that happened, and then we can provide ideas for what the E would look like...

ETA: Are we going to be ready to move on to Chapter 2 tomorrow? Foodmachine, do you want to start the thread again, or would someone else like to take the mantle? I haven't read it yet, so I could start a thread but not really comment on the chapter meaningfully.
02-18-2009 06:54 PM
edamama
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_momma2007 View Post
I think the S part is really good. I feel that most of the time I'm just reacting before I even have a chance to really think about it. So I will definitely try to hold my tongue...
Yes! I think the S part is key. It's really hard though to change your mind set. I've done it a few time and feel so proud of myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foodmachine
I hear you. I felt that way when Aldort talks about not expecting "please" and "thank you". I was like "but that's important!" However, I think Aldort would say these thoughts reflect our needs not our child's - our need for them to respectful or polite.
For us, this is automatic. DH and I always say please and thank you and now DD does too. And if we forget to say "You're welcome" she says it for us.:

Quote:
Originally Posted by foodmachine
On p 36 Aldort talks about a parent's response to a teenager having stolen something. While I agree with not saying "stealing is wrong" point blank, I question her suggestion to say, "I was sad". Aldort suggests this will avoid shame, but wouldn't making their Mom "sad" bring guilt too? It suggests the child has not lived up to the parent's expectation. The responsiblity of keeping one's parents "happy" could be a very heavy for child.
Yes, I remember when my mom would be disappointed in me instead of angry and it would make me feel so guilty. One thing Aldort says is how we are only responsible for our own feelings and we need to trust that our child can handle their own.


One thing I have a hard time with is that I automatically say "I'm sorry" when anything happens. Aldort says that can make a child feel like a victim and blame others for their emotions.

Also, I have a hard time with the E part, empower you child to resolve her own upset. I am very quick to fix things for DD or redirect her. I'm not sure how literally to take this since DD is almost 2, there are lots of things she can't really do. How does the E work with a toddler?
02-17-2009 01:08 PM
Hazelnut ooh I have this waiting to be read-- hope to join you tonight when I get a chance to start it.
02-16-2009 11:04 PM
green_momma2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodmachine View Post
Working a night shift, missing DD and checking in. Any thoughts on pp?
I have not gotten to that page yet, but here is my take on it. I think with a teenager you can be more direct and honest about how you feel about their actions. If my teenager were shoplifting, I wouldn't water down my reaction. I'd tell him straight out that I was mad and hurt. I think with smaller children it is good to separate your reaction from your feelings because they are more "tender" and don't yet understand that you can be upset at their actions but still love them. I worry that if I were to simply say "I'm sad" to a teenager everytime they do something wrong they would see it either as dishonest or that I simply did not care.
02-16-2009 07:18 PM
foodmachine Working a night shift, missing DD and checking in. Any thoughts on pp?
02-15-2009 07:25 AM
foodmachine On p 36 Aldort talks about a parent's response to a teenager having stolen something. While I agree with not saying "stealing is wrong" point blank, I question her suggestion to say, "I was sad". Aldort suggests this will avoid shame, but wouldn't making their Mom "sad" bring guilt too? It suggests the child has not lived up to the parent's expectation. The responsiblity of keeping one's parents "happy" could be a very heavy for child.

Can't a conversation revolve around the logic of a action? For example, explaining to the child how if everyone stole from the local store, it would go out of business and "then you (the child) would be sad if there was no where for you to buy soda in the neighborhood".
02-14-2009 12:59 PM
AngelBee :
02-14-2009 12:55 PM
Keeta
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_momma2007 View Post
As I read this book, I feel a struggle to accept what she's saying. It's like I'm screaming inside: But if I don't do anything they are going to run wild and turn into crazy savage adults who don't care about others!
And while I was mulling over this thought yesterday I realized something. There are basically two ways of viewing human nature. Either we are essentially good or essentially evil. Even though I've changed my way of parenting in many ways to reflect AP, I think deep down inside I still hold on to the idea that we are evil. That's why I'm so reluctant to accept some of Aldort's ideas. I guess I think that if I don't micromanage my children's behavior that they will turn out bad.
So I have to keep reminding myself that my children are inherently good and if I provide love and guidance they will turn out allright.
I really hear what you're saying. It is a serious leap of faith, right? Especially since it's soooo process oriented and the results won't be in for years whether it was a good plan or not.

Something that helps me occasionally is to take your initial resistance about something - say, that your kid shouldn't have a cookie right now - and taking it all the way through the argument to the end. Why shouldn't they have a cookie? Because they won't eat "real" food later. So what? Then they'll be unhealthy. And? They'll get sick and die. Kind of taking it to the most extreme conclusion lets you see that maybe you can say yes more to your child AND feel less reluctance about it because your argument was based on a false premise. It doesn't always work for me, but sometimes it helps to shake me out of my singular "I'm the mom and I know what's important/right" point of view.
02-14-2009 10:25 AM
green_momma2007 As I read this book, I feel a struggle to accept what she's saying. It's like I'm screaming inside: But if I don't do anything they are going to run wild and turn into crazy savage adults who don't care about others!
And while I was mulling over this thought yesterday I realized something. There are basically two ways of viewing human nature. Either we are essentially good or essentially evil. Even though I've changed my way of parenting in many ways to reflect AP, I think deep down inside I still hold on to the idea that we are evil. That's why I'm so reluctant to accept some of Aldort's ideas. I guess I think that if I don't micromanage my children's behavior that they will turn out bad.
So I have to keep reminding myself that my children are inherently good and if I provide love and guidance they will turn out allright.
02-13-2009 07:46 PM
foodmachine
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_momma2007 View Post
One thing bothered me though. The scenario where she says that it's sometimes better to not say anything, the child screams at the grandma. I would totally be put off by that, particularly by a 5 year old. I'm thinking I would have said: Oh you're upset, Grandma's upset too. I feel bad when people scream at me.
I have a hard time letting kids be disrespectful, especially to Grandmas!
I hear you. I felt that way when Aldort talks about not expecting "please" and "thank you". I was like "but that's important!" However, I think Aldort would say these thoughts reflect our needs not our child's - our need for them to respectful or polite.

Of course isn't great to be screamed at but Grandma can take it .
I think (hope) Amber comes and apologizes to Grandma later.
02-13-2009 03:07 PM
foodmachine :
02-13-2009 01:09 PM
green_momma2007 I really like your way of describing it: Don't feed the fire, just comment on the flames.
02-13-2009 12:48 PM
Keeta
Quote:
Originally Posted by foodmachine View Post
3)There is a lot of talk about not adding "drama". What is example of drama a well-meaning Mom might add?
I think she means not making it a bigger deal than it is. For example, if your kid falls and scrapes her knee, NOT saying "Oh, that looks like the worst scraped knee I've ever seen! It looks like it really really HURTS!" in an overly dramatic, end-of-the-world kind of way. Same thing with emotions. There is a way to say "That must have been frustrating." vs. "You must be SO Frustrated!!!!" I know my kid reacts to my reactions, so the point I took is don't feed the fire, just comment on the flames.
02-12-2009 11:16 PM
green_momma2007 I think the S part is really good. I feel that most of the time I'm just reacting before I even have a chance to really think about it. So I will definitely try to hold my tongue.
One thing bothered me though. The scenario where she says that it's sometimes better to not say anything, the child screams at the grandma. I would totally be put off by that, particularly by a 5 year old. I'm thinking I would have said: Oh you're upset, Grandma's upset too. I feel bad when people scream at me.
I have a hard time letting kids be disrespectful, especially to Grandmas!
02-12-2009 04:21 PM
foodmachine Hi! I'm hooked. I'm practicing the Self-talk with my DH. I definitely have a problem of opening my mouth TOO fast.
I guess there will be some clarification to come, but I little confused by 3 things:
1) Aldort says don't put in your perception or but has the adult saying "What a bummer" on pages 2 and 25.
2)How do you know when to "name the emotions" and when to steer clear (see example bottom p 24 and p 25)? Practice and knowing your child perhaps.
3)There is a lot of talk about not adding "drama". What is example of drama a well-meaning Mom might add?

Fun to get started!

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