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  Topic Review (Newest First)
06-16-2011 05:44 PM
2xy

Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post

To each their own.... And I was just asking...


And I simply answered. What's the problem?

 

06-16-2011 12:21 PM
APToddlerMama

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xy View Post



 

How would I even know that it was happening?

 

If I don't want people to see my kids' rear-ends, maybe I should put them in less revealing clothing. I don't understand letting half your ass hang out and then complaining that people can see it.

 

Anyway, I hardly think that swimwear is pornographic. Some people think shoes are erotic. Should I hide my kids' feet?
 

 



To each their own.... And I was just asking...

06-15-2011 10:12 PM
lovingmommyhood I think i'm just going to keep my kids locked in their rooms! I Sooo wish I could. Haha!
06-15-2011 09:32 PM
2xy

Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post




So if some creepy dudes are sitting at their computers getting "pleasure" out of seeing photos of your girls on the internet in their swimsuits...maybe closeups of their rear ends, you'd be cool with that?  You too 2xy? 

 

 

How would I even know that it was happening?

 

If I don't want people to see my kids' rear-ends, maybe I should put them in less revealing clothing. I don't understand letting half your ass hang out and then complaining that people can see it.

 

Anyway, I hardly think that swimwear is pornographic. Some people think shoes are erotic. Should I hide my kids' feet?
 

 

06-15-2011 02:29 PM
choli



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post




So if some creepy dudes are sitting at their computers getting "pleasure" out of seeing photos of your girls on the internet in their swimsuits...maybe closeups of their rear ends, you'd be cool with that?  You too 2xy? 

 


Yes, I would, since we wouldn't know about it! And frankly, even if we did know about it, we also know that it does not affect us in any way. Just as if they are getting pleasure out of looking at my girls in real life it does not affect us in any way.
 

 

06-15-2011 02:23 PM
lovingmommyhood
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post

I see this as a "trading security for liberty" issue. Do people have a right to take photos of their grandkids at a pool without being harassed? I think so. Do people have the right to wear skimpy bathing suits and assume no one will take their photos in a public place? I don't know about that. Might someone use photos they take in bad ways? Sure but pedophiles are weird and could be just as turned on by any photo of a kid. I can't spend my life worrying about what a pedophile might be turned on by. I'd rather have my kids dress in a way where they aren't worried about whether their photo is taken.


Ditto.

06-15-2011 02:20 PM
mamazee I see this as a "trading security for liberty" issue. Do people have a right to take photos of their grandkids at a pool without being harassed? I think so. Do people have the right to wear skimpy bathing suits and assume no one will take their photos in a public place? I don't know about that. Might someone use photos they take in bad ways? Sure but pedophiles are weird and could be just as turned on by any photo of a kid. I can't spend my life worrying about what a pedophile might be turned on by. I'd rather have my kids dress in a way where they aren't worried about whether their photo is taken.
06-15-2011 02:09 PM
mammal_mama

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post




Finding out that photos of you as a child have been used as pornography is emotionally and psychologically damaging. If someone takes those photos and your girls grow up and find out that those photos have been shared by pedophiles for their enjoyment, it will have an impact on their life.

 

 


It would also have an impact on their lives if they were to see me being devoured by sharks, which is not likely to happen as we live in the Midwest (and it wouldn't even be that likely if we lived on the coast). The likelihood of one of my children's photos being used as porn AND her finding out about it seems about the same as that of me getting eaten by sharks AND my children seeing it...so I can't even imagine ever devoting any energy to worrying about it or, well, doing anything about it, really. There is just so much real life stuff to be dealing with.

 

Just as I wouldn't let a remote possibility of getting eaten by sharks prevent me from taking my family to enjoy the seaside should we ever get the opportunity, so I wouldn't let any fear of photos being used weirdly prevent families the world over from the joy of getting to take snapshots of their children, and grandchildren, enjoying the pool and other public places. We can't all afford to have our kids learn to swim in private places, ya know...
 

 

06-15-2011 01:32 PM
APToddlerMama

Quote:
Originally Posted by choli View Post


It wouldn't bother me - if I was ashamed of a bikini, I would not wear a bikini in public. Same for my girls. We don't wear or do things in public that we would have a problem with seeing on the internet.


So if some creepy dudes are sitting at their computers getting "pleasure" out of seeing photos of your girls on the internet in their swimsuits...maybe closeups of their rear ends, you'd be cool with that?  You too 2xy? 

 

06-15-2011 12:16 PM
MusicianDad

Quote:
Originally Posted by choli View Post




It wouldn't bother me - if I was ashamed of a bikini, I would not wear a bikini in public. Same for my girls. We don't wear or do things in public that we would have a problem with seeing on the internet.

 

 


Finding out that photos of you as a child have been used as pornography is emotionally and psychologically damaging. If someone takes those photos and your girls grow up and find out that those photos have been shared by pedophiles for their enjoyment, it will have an impact on their life.

 

But then I am of the mind set that there really needs to be more regulation regarding the photography of strangers, particularly children, if only so people have some control over their 'image'.

 

06-14-2011 12:09 PM
mammal_mama

I definitely trust my daughters to know whether or not they are comfortable in a particular situation. In fact, if I think something would be great fun for one of my daughters but she says she would rather not do it, or go to a particular place, for any reason, I respect her feelings; I don't push my children into any situations where they're not comfortable. I also don't make them spend time with people who they're not comfortable with.

 

This doesn't mean that I encourage them to call the police every time they feel uncomfortable.

 

Children definitely need to know how to dial 911 so that they can contact the police/medical authorities in the event that a crisis occurrs where an adult is not available.

 

But, where an adult is available -- and if I'm sending my child somewhere on her own with a cell phone (I don't actually do that yet, but my girls are younger), you can bet that this means that either dh or I is accessible by phone -- to me, it just seems natural to use a parent as a sounding-board on how to handle uncomfortable situations. This wasn't a life and death emergency (obviously, if someone's bleeding profusely, you need to alert others around you, namely a lifeguard, as well as calling 911, rather than calling Mom or Dad who wouldn't be able to get there fast enough).

 

Children should absolutely be heard! I just tend to see a parent as the first logical choice of someone to turn to.

 

Also, about cases where my child's butt-cheek might get inadvertently exposed at the pool, and someone might snap a photo and post it on the Internet -- if my child isn't recognizable, I don't care. If my child IS regognizable, I'll alert the authorities. There are laws against publishing recognizable photos of children without parental permission.

 

But honestly, if I don't know about it, I don't know about it and what's the big deal? How does it affect us? I agree with Choli that it's not my actual child in that photo; her soul has not been stolen.

 

06-14-2011 11:08 AM
choli

Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post



Well what if those photos end up on the internet? 


It wouldn't bother me - if I was ashamed of a bikini, I would not wear a bikini in public. Same for my girls. We don't wear or do things in public that we would have a problem with seeing on the internet.

 

 

06-14-2011 10:53 AM
APToddlerMama

Quote:
Originally Posted by choli View Post

 Yes, I would be OK with it. The camera will not steal their souls.

Well what if those photos end up on the internet? 

06-14-2011 10:36 AM
choli



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post




Would you be okay with a man taking photos of your kids at the pool in their swimsuits?  Sorry kids.  That guy snapping your photo as you bend over or adjust your suit...well, you're in a public place so deal with it. 

 

When I worked at a pool there were several times when the police were called because of weird men photoing/videotaping closeups of boobs and butts.  The police were most certainly interested.  I don't know the outcome but I am assuming if you're doing that it is a big red flag for other criminal behavior. 

 



 Yes, I would be OK with it. The camera will not steal their souls.

06-14-2011 10:23 AM
Linda on the move

I have a 14 year old DD who spends a great deal of time in pools, some of it without me there. I would expect her to go straight to the lifeguard if she saw anyone behaving inappropriately.

 

 

06-14-2011 10:20 AM
APToddlerMama

Quote:
Originally Posted by choli View Post

 

Even if he WAS taking pictures of her and emailing them, that is not against the law. She was in a public place, and anyone can take a picture in a public place. If this was not the case then the paparazzi would be out of business long ago.


Would you be okay with a man taking photos of your kids at the pool in their swimsuits?  Sorry kids.  That guy snapping your photo as you bend over or adjust your suit...well, you're in a public place so deal with it. 

 

When I worked at a pool there were several times when the police were called because of weird men photoing/videotaping closeups of boobs and butts.  The police were most certainly interested.  I don't know the outcome but I am assuming if you're doing that it is a big red flag for other criminal behavior. 

 

06-14-2011 10:09 AM
choli



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post





Really?  Because that does imply that your daughter does not have the judgement to determine whether or not she is in danger.  The fourteen year old in this situation appears to have made the wrong call, but my guess is the majority of fourteen year olds would make the right call.  And honestly, none of us know for sure that this guy wasn't taking photos and maybe emailed them quick and then deleted or whatever.  Chances are he was totally innocent but I think we're jumping to conclusions without actually knowing the kid or seeing the situation. 

 


Even if he WAS taking pictures of her and emailing them, that is not against the law. She was in a public place, and anyone can take a picture in a public place. If this was not the case then the paparazzi would be out of business long ago.
 

 

06-14-2011 09:14 AM
lovingmommyhood

Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post



Really?  Because that does imply that your daughter does not have the judgement to determine whether or not she is in danger.  The fourteen year old in this situation appears to have made the wrong call, but my guess is the majority of fourteen year olds would make the right call.  And honestly, none of us know for sure that this guy wasn't taking photos and maybe emailed them quick and then deleted or whatever.  Chances are he was totally innocent but I think we're jumping to conclusions without actually knowing the kid or seeing the situation. 

 


Well...my daughter is three so I can't say what her judgement will be like but I do recall myself as a teen and I made plenty of horrible judgement calls... I'm not saying I won't trust my daughter but I would hope she would use her head and not call the police over an unfounded suspicion of picture taking in a public pool and instead would call me or her dad to come and get her, removing her from the situation. 

 

06-14-2011 09:09 AM
APToddlerMama

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingmommyhood View Post

I believe I will teach my daughter if she is feeling creeped out by someone, anyone, she should call me immediately so I can remove her from the situation. I would not want my daughter calling the police (!) for something so frivolous. They were at a public pool, in a group, in broad daylight. Move across the pool and call someone to come get you. If the man was actually doing something...saying in appropriate things, making some sort of advance than that would be a different story. I would hope the girl apologized to that man for wrongly accusing him. 

 



Really?  Because that does imply that your daughter does not have the judgement to determine whether or not she is in danger.  The fourteen year old in this situation appears to have made the wrong call, but my guess is the majority of fourteen year olds would make the right call.  And honestly, none of us know for sure that this guy wasn't taking photos and maybe emailed them quick and then deleted or whatever.  Chances are he was totally innocent but I think we're jumping to conclusions without actually knowing the kid or seeing the situation. 

 

06-14-2011 08:59 AM
lovingmommyhood

Quote:
Originally Posted by APToddlerMama View Post



I completely agree with you (for once ;)) MusicianDad.  It is truly unfortunate that this guy was pulled into this scenario if he wasn't doing anything inappropriate, and it sounds like he wasn't, but I think we also need to keep in mind that this sort of thing happens frequently enough that our daughters need to know that they can and should be heard if they're feeling creeped out. 

 

 


I believe I will teach my daughter if she is feeling creeped out by someone, anyone, she should call me immediately so I can remove her from the situation. I would not want my daughter calling the police (!) for something so frivolous. They were at a public pool, in a group, in broad daylight. Move across the pool and call someone to come get you. If the man was actually doing something...saying in appropriate things, making some sort of advance than that would be a different story. I would hope the girl apologized to that man for wrongly accusing him. 

 

06-14-2011 08:50 AM
APToddlerMama

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post

One thing we need to remember about invisible audience... Just because it's a teen who feels like she/he is being watched by someone and it's creeping them out, doesn't mean that it's all in his/her head. There are plenty of people out there who think it's perfectly ok to ogle a teen, and the teen (usually female) has a right to say "some weird guy is staring/taking pictures/acting weird to me, how can I make it stop?" And be heard, and believed. No matter what she/he is wearing or how they are acting.

I completely agree with you (for once ;)) MusicianDad.  It is truly unfortunate that this guy was pulled into this scenario if he wasn't doing anything inappropriate, and it sounds like he wasn't, but I think we also need to keep in mind that this sort of thing happens frequently enough that our daughters need to know that they can and should be heard if they're feeling creeped out. 

 

 

06-14-2011 08:41 AM
mammal_mama

Thanks for the vote of confidence, lovingmommyhood!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post

There are plenty of people out there who think it's perfectly ok to ogle a teen, and the teen (usually female) has a right to say "some weird guy is staring/taking pictures/acting weird to me, how can I make it stop?" And be heard, and believed. No matter what she/he is wearing or how they are acting.


I also wanted to respond directly to this part of your comment. According to the OP, the teen's mom felt that the man wasn't behaving in any way that her daughter would have objected to, had he been a cute boy.

 

Of course, the OP also explained that the other people at the pool backed up this grandpa and verified that he wasn't behaving at all inappropriately, and I have a feeling that, had a 40 or 50-plus man been behaving like a stereotypical turned-on teenaged boy (I know that many teenaged boys can be turned on without acting on it; I'm specifically talking about the stereotype of "young men on the make"), this would have stood out to everyone at the pool.

 

But, to get back to my point, whatever this girl thought this man was doing, apparently it did not constitute what even she would call true sexual harassment, because it would have been okay if the so called perpetrator had been young and cute! Surely we're not okay with being raped, harassed, or treated in any way disrespectfully, just so long as the criminal is a perfect ten!

 

Do we really have a right to dictate who can feel sexual arousal? -- and I'm not saying that it sounds like this man was aroused, it sounds like his attention was focused on his grandkids and he didn't even notice the girl 'til she forced her presence onto his radar by calling the police, just that it seems rather unfair to act like these feelings are "privileges" that are only afforded to the young and cute. Anyone else experiencing a normal reaction to sexual stimuli is "some weird guy."

 

I should clarify that I don't see it as a normal reaction, ever, to act aggressively or disrespectfully toward someone; I just do think it's normal that sometimes there are things that can turn us on, and maybe some of us are pretty adept at hiding it, but an aroused man in swimming trunks may stand out, even if he has no interest in actually pursuing the person whose near-naked body stimulated his state of arousal.

 

 

 

06-14-2011 07:58 AM
lovingmommyhood

clap.gif ITA ^

06-14-2011 03:34 AM
mammal_mama

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post

One thing we need to remember about invisible audience... Just because it's a teen who feels like she/he is being watched by someone and it's creeping them out, doesn't mean that it's all in his/her head. There are plenty of people out there who think it's perfectly ok to ogle a teen, and the teen (usually female) has a right to say "some weird guy is staring/taking pictures/acting weird to me, how can I make it stop?" And be heard, and believed. No matter what she/he is wearing or how they are acting.



Teens have a right to feel safe; men have a right to enjoy a fun day at the pool with grandkids without getting accused of "perving" on someone.

 

I won't dispute that this girl was within her legal "rights" when she called the cops on that poor man.

 

I know there's no law on the books that says everyone "has" to take into account the feelings of others; that's just something I believe in encouraging in my own children -- and, no, that doesn't mean that they should ever tolerate feeling unsafe just to avoid hurting someone's feelings.

 

I stand by my previous statement that I think the girl's mom is the only "perv" in this case.

 

06-13-2011 11:09 PM
lunarlady While I feel sad for the niece, i think there is little the OP can do about it. This girl is being raised to believe that her looks and her clothing are the most important things in the world for her success in life. Girls who feel like that are constantly paranoid about their appearance. So while she may not feel comfortable in the swimsuit, she will wear it anyway because she feels she HAS to in order to get a BF/get married/be successful. This message is coming from her peers, her mom, the media, and our over sexualized society. So she is being told that putting herself on display is important, but she is uncomfortable being on display. Sad. The worst part? Most girls like that never feel like they look good enough. There is always something wrong with their bodies or their clothing. They are never 100% confident, although they pretend to be. This can make them toxic to their peers because they want their choices validated by seeing others copy them.

I, like most MDC moms, hope to raise my girls to see the value of themselves regardless of the packaging they are born into. It took me many years to embrace the notion that my worth is not tied to my appearance. For several years this looked like grungy, ill fitting clothing I used to say "F it. If I will never be good enough than I'm not going to pretend to try." I shaved off my hair, peirced my tounge, got a tattoo...all in the name of non conformity. For those of us not traditionally beautiful, the path is a little easier. But for those who are close to socitey's perfection I think it is even harder to resist trying to be "all that."

Even with my kids I see it. My little girl is "cute," "pretty," "beautiful," "charming" while my friend's little boy is "smart," "cleaver," "strong," or a "little man.". Raising little girls to resist being objectified is a serious challenge.
06-13-2011 07:57 PM
lovingmommyhood

Quote:
Originally Posted by MusicianDad View Post

Clothes have little to do with it. She could be covered head to toe with not an inch of skin showing and still provide "temptation" to perverts.



That is probably true. I guess I don't know the mind of a pervert. (I'm not implying you do, but perhaps you've read more on it.) I was just making an assumption. 

06-13-2011 07:55 PM
MusicianDad

Clothes have little to do with it. She could be covered head to toe with not an inch of skin showing and still provide "temptation" to perverts.

06-13-2011 07:41 PM
lovingmommyhood

That poor guy. Seriously. Basically called out as a pervert for absolutely no reason? Fourteen year old girls are fourteen year old girls, I get that. But if I were your sister I'd be having a serious talk with her about what image her daughter wants to put out to the world and that is something a person has to think long and hard about. If you're dressed provacatively people will be more prone to look. It's just the way it is. Does that make it okay for old men to look at young girls? Hell no. Does it make it the girl's fault if an old man is oogling her? Hell no. Do we all have to be aware that perverts do exist and the risk is out there that they will look/take pictures and factor it in to how our daughters are dressing? IMO, hell yes. 

06-13-2011 07:34 PM
MusicianDad

One thing we need to remember about invisible audience... Just because it's a teen who feels like she/he is being watched by someone and it's creeping them out, doesn't mean that it's all in his/her head. There are plenty of people out there who think it's perfectly ok to ogle a teen, and the teen (usually female) has a right to say "some weird guy is staring/taking pictures/acting weird to me, how can I make it stop?" And be heard, and believed. No matter what she/he is wearing or how they are acting.

06-13-2011 11:56 AM
Dr.Worm

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaoticzenmom View Post



 

How should a person who works on a corner (or dresses like one) be treated?  I don't want my daughter dressing in skimpy clothing, but I'm not liking the attitude that if she does, it's ok to treat her a certain way.  I have a friend who dresses in clothes that I find too revealing for my taste, but she deserves every bit of respect as anyone else.  

 

This isn't as much in response to the post about the swimming pool incident (poor guy!), but just looking at our attitudes in general that some people deserve maltreatment based on whatever we think justifies it.

 



Yes!! I also don't like skimpy clothes for myself or for my dd.  I wouldn't take her out and buy her a bathing suit like the OP described.  Even if she told me that her friends all do...oh well.  But no, I do not agree with the idea that people get to treat you like you aren't a good person because you are wearing such-and-such.  And that's why if a girl is wearing a certain outfit and is raped people think well, she shouldn't have been dressed like a slut.  And I also feel bad for grandpa..how embarassing.

 

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