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  Topic Review (Newest First)
10-22-2011 03:10 PM
montessorimama1

Quote:
Originally Posted by wombjuice View Post

I completely agree with thorn that the decision regarding whether or not to obtain any prenatal ultrasound is entirely personal and up to the mother and family.

 

And it's true that ultrasound has never been proven to cause growth retardation and cell mutation in fetuses.  However, it has been correlated with these two issues, among many, many, many more.

 

Ultrasound has never been proven to be safe. (I recommend everyone do thorough research [Note: this little blog post is obviously biased, but has links to dozens of studies/research/articles regarding the potential dangers of ultrasound] before making a decision.)  I'm, personally, not willing to take any chances with my baby at this moment in my pregnancy.  I am always open to changing my mind if at any point I feel an ultrasound to be medically necessary.  Again, this decision is just so personal.  Parents have to weigh the risks vs. the benefits of prenatal ultrasound for their family and during this particular pregnancy.  There is no right or wrong INFORMED decision. heartbeat.gif


yeahthat.gif   thumbsup.gif

 

10-22-2011 01:46 PM
wombjuice

I completely agree with thorn that the decision regarding whether or not to obtain any prenatal ultrasound is entirely personal and up to the mother and family.

 

And it's true that ultrasound has never been proven to cause growth retardation and cell mutation in fetuses.  However, it has been correlated with these two issues, among many, many, many more.

 

Ultrasound has never been proven to be safe. (I recommend everyone do thorough research [Note: this little blog post is obviously biased, but has links to dozens of studies/research/articles regarding the potential dangers of ultrasound] before making a decision.)  I'm, personally, not willing to take any chances with my baby at this moment in my pregnancy.  I am always open to changing my mind if at any point I feel an ultrasound to be medically necessary.  Again, this decision is just so personal.  Parents have to weigh the risks vs. the benefits of prenatal ultrasound for their family and during this particular pregnancy.  There is no right or wrong INFORMED decision. heartbeat.gif

10-22-2011 01:17 PM
thorn Can you link to the studies proving that ultrasound causes growth retardation and cell mutation in fetuses?

Obstetrical ultrasound is used for MANY reasons. Some, like estimating baby's size or amniotic fluid in late pregnancy, are inaccurate and the results highly subjective. Others, like the anatomy ultrasound (which most people seem to think is only good for telling the baby's sex) can detect a multitude of issues that could affect the birth or the baby. For example, gastroechesis, where the intestines are actually outside of the baby's abdomen. Or certain heart defects requiring immediate care after birth. Placenta previa. Also issues that affect multiple gestations such as whether the babies are at risk for TTTS.

And others are used as a non-invasive way to screen for genetic abnormalities. Obviously whether or not to test for these and what to do with the results is very personal.

Overall the decision about whether and when to use ultrasound is up to the individual family. But saying things like "it's only to find out the sex", "it's never been studied" etc is incorrect.
10-22-2011 12:43 PM
montessorimama1

Quote:

Originally Posted by element2012 View Post

I'm not even sure why the medical establishment uses them (and so often!), is it really only to find out the gender and to basically visually confirm that the baby is in there growing?  What's the point?

 


Ultrasounds are justified by the medical establishment because they say they can detect potential health issues in utero that can be addressed at birth.  Sadly, u/s have been proven to cause cellular mutations and growth retardation, which is exactly the type of issues that u/s are supposed to detect.  Ironic, isn't it?  And let's not even mention misdiagnosis leading to a lack of mom-baby bonding... Additionally, u/s are supposed to be used to estimate the size and weight of a baby (and therefore determine if the baby is ready to be born in the case of elective inductions c-sections), but they are notoriously inaccurate and have led to many a premature birth.  A talented midwife is much more accurate with her hands than an u/s tech is with his machine.

 

I hadn't heard about the use of u/s to sterilize men, but it doesn't surprise me one bit. 

 

10-22-2011 12:23 PM
element2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by lactatinggirl View Post

Quote:

It kills me that technology that was made for submarines and has gone through virtually no testing for safety on humans is being used on the most delicate time in a human's life for such mundane things as knowing the baby's sex.


I've been telling people who ask me now "Do you know if it's a boy or a girl?" that we are having a homebirth and decided against getting any ultrasounds unless we had to.  I used to just tell people that I didn't want to find out. redface.gif  Surprisingly, most people I've told have been pretty supportive of not getting an ultrasound (the homebirth is a different story, get lots of "you're crazy" for that!).  Before getting pregnant, I read that ultrasound can be used on a male's testicles to sterilize him for 6 months.  No thanks. I'm not even sure why the medical establishment uses them (and so often!), is it really only to find out the gender and to basically visually confirm that the baby is in there growing?  What's the point?

 

10-22-2011 12:09 PM
montessorimama1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aunteater View Post

My midwife used the doppler on my belly at my last checkup-- I had mixed feelings about it, but kind of shrugged it off. Kid kept moving away from the thing, so she was chasing it all around my belly, and finally the baby landed a direct (and very audible) kick directly on the microphone. I may decline that next time, since it seems to make the baby uncomfortable (even though my husband goes all gooey hearing a heartbeat, which is cute), but just that once... it was really quite comical.



By now you can clearly hear the hb with a fetoscope, which is even sweeter than the doppler!  Try it out!

10-22-2011 12:02 PM
Aunteater

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdang View Post

I have been getting all the "main stream" tests so far..but at the last appointment which was at 28 weeks the baby literally jumped when the midwife went to hear the heartbeat with the doppler, and jumped again whenshe palced it on my stomach again after taking it away for a second (he was not active before this, it happened upon instant contact with my stomach). Soooo, I'm going to decline this check now because that freaked me out. Not sure why they need to do this so often anyway, I can tell he's kicking around just fine in there!



My midwife used the doppler on my belly at my last checkup-- I had mixed feelings about it, but kind of shrugged it off. Kid kept moving away from the thing, so she was chasing it all around my belly, and finally the baby landed a direct (and very audible) kick directly on the microphone. I may decline that next time, since it seems to make the baby uncomfortable (even though my husband goes all gooey hearing a heartbeat, which is cute), but just that once... it was really quite comical.

10-21-2011 05:18 PM
montessorimama1

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdang View Post

I have been getting all the "main stream" tests so far..but at the last appointment which was at 28 weeks the baby literally jumped when the midwife went to hear the heartbeat with the doppler, and jumped again whenshe palced it on my stomach again after taking it away for a second (he was not active before this, it happened upon instant contact with my stomach). Soooo, I'm going to decline this check now because that freaked me out. Not sure why they need to do this so often anyway, I can tell he's kicking around just fine in there!



Wow, scary... You should feel good that you paid attention and realized your baby wasn't happy.  Some people don't put two and two together.  Ask your midwife to use a fetoscope, it's so sweet to actually hear the heartbeat and not some electronic version of it.  :)  Good luck!

10-21-2011 03:26 PM
hdang

I have been getting all the "main stream" tests so far..but at the last appointment which was at 28 weeks the baby literally jumped when the midwife went to hear the heartbeat with the doppler, and jumped again whenshe palced it on my stomach again after taking it away for a second (he was not active before this, it happened upon instant contact with my stomach). Soooo, I'm going to decline this check now because that freaked me out. Not sure why they need to do this so often anyway, I can tell he's kicking around just fine in there!

10-18-2011 01:14 PM
Mommy2anangel

Quote:
Originally Posted by lactatinggirl View Post

Quote:

My midwife does a glucose test that's a blood test. She said it gives numbers for the last three months, which is obviously better for determining glucose intolerance. I actually read something saying that it's possibly harmful to do the traditional GTT. I was ready to just say no, but then she said she doesn't do that anyway. She also likes to test for anemia in the same blood test and this is when she'd normally do stuff like blood type, but since this is my second and with the same partner, there's no reason to do any of that again.

 

I also read that knowing any sort of problems that would show up on an ultrasound can often be detrimental to the baby. It affects bonding, which is a big deal for babies with disabilities being able to survive. Ultrasounds are also notoriously bad in false negatives and sometimes false positives. It kills me that technology that was made for submarines and has gone through virtually no testing for safety on humans is being used on the most delicate time in a human's life for such mundane things as knowing the baby's sex.



Couldn't agree more. And I don't get why people have to throw a hissy when I say I decline ultrasounds unless my midwife and I think that it might be warranted. I really rarely mention it, but on another birth club I'm on it came up and man I wish I never said anything.. lol. 

10-14-2011 06:52 PM
wombjuice

Yay, element!  That is wonderful!! joy.gif

10-14-2011 10:49 AM
montessorimama1

Quote:
Originally Posted by element2012 View Post

Update!  We heard it this morning!joy.gif Oh it was so beautiful, and I definitely cried too!  DH heard it also, he was pretty amazed by it.  I tried to count the beats and it came up around 130s-140s so... boy?  Either way I am walking on clouds today!


HURRAY!!!  I'm so excited for you!!!!  Isn't it the greatest, that tic-toc, tic-toc in the distance?  Congratulations!

 

10-14-2011 10:37 AM
element2012

Update!  We heard it this morning!joy.gif Oh it was so beautiful, and I definitely cried too!  DH heard it also, he was pretty amazed by it.  I tried to count the beats and it came up around 130s-140s so... boy?  Either way I am walking on clouds today!

10-14-2011 08:02 AM
montessorimama1

Quote:
Originally Posted by element2012 View Post

Had my check-up today, 25 weeks, still couldn't find the heartbeat! bawling.gif  The baby moves, a lot, so I am not feeling worried or anything, just think the LO was faced the wrong way.  My MW sent me home with one of her fetoscopes to try to find it, so DH and I have been trying all day.


Oh bugger... It's so soft at this point, so faint, that it's not surprising that it can't be heard if the baby was facing the wrong way.  Like you said, the baby moves a lot, so there's nothing to worry about... Have fun trying to hear and keep us posted!!  :)

 

10-12-2011 06:32 PM
element2012

Had my check-up today, 25 weeks, still couldn't find the heartbeat! bawling.gif  The baby moves, a lot, so I am not feeling worried or anything, just think the LO was faced the wrong way.  My MW sent me home with one of her fetoscopes to try to find it, so DH and I have been trying all day.

10-10-2011 08:30 PM
montessorimama1

Quote:
Originally Posted by ameliaanne View Post

WOW! I am 25 wks 6 days today and I just got to hear my baby's heartbeat for the first time today! I am so happy and I totally cried :) Wonderful midwife sent us home with a fetoscope to borrow and use whenever we'd like!


Ohhhhhh, isn't it just the most wonderful feeling, and so worth the wait???  I am SO HAPPY for you!!!  I cried too, how can you not?  It all becomes so real!  Congratulations!

 

10-10-2011 07:53 PM
ameliaanne

WOW! I am 25 wks 6 days today and I just got to hear my baby's heartbeat for the first time today! I am so happy and I totally cried :) Wonderful midwife sent us home with a fetoscope to borrow and use whenever we'd like!

10-09-2011 10:10 AM
montessorimama1

Quote:
Originally Posted by lactatinggirl View Post

Quote:

 

I also read that knowing any sort of problems that would show up on an ultrasound can often be detrimental to the baby. It affects bonding, which is a big deal for babies with disabilities being able to survive. Ultrasounds are also notoriously bad in false negatives and sometimes false positives. It kills me that technology that was made for submarines and has gone through virtually no testing for safety on humans is being used on the most delicate time in a human's life for such mundane things as knowing the baby's sex.


thumb.gif  truedat.gif   I wrote a post on my blog about why we chose not to use u/s unless medically necessary, and one person commented that she knew of someone (not even IRL, just another blogger) whose baby had a heart defect that was detected by an u/s and had life-saving operations after birth.  So now we're supposed to subject every single fetus to harmful and potentially deadly u/s radiation in the off chance that one child is correctly diagnosed (and heavens knows how many are incorrectly diagnosed, causing agony for the parents and perhaps even leading to abortion).

 

10-08-2011 10:55 PM
lactatinggirl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aunteater View Post

We are definitely on the low-tech side. 27 weeks now, and no ultrasounds, no amnio, no GTT, etc. Basically, I monitor my blood sugar already with a home glucometer, so GTT is radically unnecessary and probably dangerous (I am not on insulin, and that much sugar would send my glucose levels through the roof!). Studies show that there is no difference in outcomes with ultrasounds vs. without them, so we figure that's a waste of money, and we like the mystery of not knowing the gender. Amnio and other such tests... there is no way we would abort if there was a problem, so why bother when it wouldn't change our plans? We are slated for a single ultrasound late in pregnancy, but that's only because our doctor requires it to cover her rear if anything goes wrong.


My midwife does a glucose test that's a blood test. She said it gives numbers for the last three months, which is obviously better for determining glucose intolerance. I actually read something saying that it's possibly harmful to do the traditional GTT. I was ready to just say no, but then she said she doesn't do that anyway. She also likes to test for anemia in the same blood test and this is when she'd normally do stuff like blood type, but since this is my second and with the same partner, there's no reason to do any of that again.

 

I also read that knowing any sort of problems that would show up on an ultrasound can often be detrimental to the baby. It affects bonding, which is a big deal for babies with disabilities being able to survive. Ultrasounds are also notoriously bad in false negatives and sometimes false positives. It kills me that technology that was made for submarines and has gone through virtually no testing for safety on humans is being used on the most delicate time in a human's life for such mundane things as knowing the baby's sex.

10-05-2011 01:09 PM
Aunteater

We are definitely on the low-tech side. 27 weeks now, and no ultrasounds, no amnio, no GTT, etc. Basically, I monitor my blood sugar already with a home glucometer, so GTT is radically unnecessary and probably dangerous (I am not on insulin, and that much sugar would send my glucose levels through the roof!). Studies show that there is no difference in outcomes with ultrasounds vs. without them, so we figure that's a waste of money, and we like the mystery of not knowing the gender. Amnio and other such tests... there is no way we would abort if there was a problem, so why bother when it wouldn't change our plans? We are slated for a single ultrasound late in pregnancy, but that's only because our doctor requires it to cover her rear if anything goes wrong.

10-05-2011 11:18 AM
MidwifeErika

While there is no science as far as the heart rate goes and gender, it still is a fun one :) Most of my clients will ask what the heart rate was and make guesses as to boy or girl.... it passes the time ;)

 

My baby has a super speedy heart rate and I have been feeling that the baby is a girl, but I wouldn't be shocked it a little man popped out in January either. It is fun to just guess and wonder and dream :)

10-04-2011 09:38 PM
montessorimama1

Here's what I got from my midwife:

 

We always determine FHR (fetal heart rate) although it's irrelevant in reference to gender. I know there are many myths surrounding heart rate and gender. The heart rate changes depending on age of fetus, whether baby is awake or asleep, and it elevates after baby is palpated. If baby is palpated longer, heart rate can elevate higher and longer. When baby is at rest, heartrate can be lower. With using a fetoscope, we must first palpate baby which automatically elevates hR. And then besides that, there is no scientific basis of correlation of gender to HR. Interestingly, over the years, depending on the culture or belief system involved, I've heard the persons say a higher hR equals a boy.... or a girl. I know this may not matter since it's so fun during pregnancy, so you may still want to track it. I'm not at the office to read it at the moment, though if you want to know it, you can ask next time we have an appt. :)
 
So there ya have it... It could be a boy... or a girl. :)  I'm still thinking girl, though.  Oh!  My linea nigra now extends all the way from top to bottom of my belly, which I've read is associated with girl... One more sign pointing to GIRL!  ARGH, the wait is killing me!!
10-04-2011 04:09 PM
montessorimama1

Quote:
Originally Posted by element2012 View Post

Hooray montesorrimama!!! joy.gif  SO happy for you!  My MW appointment is coming up, I'll be 25 weeks then and am CERTAIN we will hear it this time!  But I have to ask, what was the HB?  More signs pointing to a little girl?


Oh, I am soooo excited for you!!  My mw said that by 25 weeks it was 99% certain to hear the hb.  Although truth be told, I had to try three times to hear it.  You have to get really quiet and go beyond the bumps and shuffles you'll hear at first.

 

Honestly, I was so overwhelmed when I heard the hb that I forgot to ask what the rate was!  I'll email my mw to see what she picked up. 

 

BEST OF LUCK!!! 

 

10-03-2011 12:56 PM
element2012

Hooray montesorrimama!!! joy.gif  SO happy for you!  My MW appointment is coming up, I'll be 25 weeks then and am CERTAIN we will hear it this time!  But I have to ask, what was the HB?  More signs pointing to a little girl?

09-30-2011 03:25 PM
Devaskyla

Yay! Awesome news.

 

Dh still hasn't heard ours, but he has messed up ears & supposedly has never heard any of the kids, even at full term. And this is why I don't check for the heartbeat during labour...I'm too distracted & dh has decided he can't hear it. lol

09-30-2011 02:22 PM
montessorimama1 I just wanted to resurrect this old thread because... WE FINALLY HEARD THE HEARTBEAT TODAY!! joy.gif We waited 25 looooong weeks, and today we heard our little one's magical tic-toc, tic-toc. I'm in heaven, I don't think my feet have hit the ground yet (and of course I cried when I heard it). Sheepish.gif DH heard it too, it was so great to have him there! Just wanted to share because I know you low-tech mommas understand what this means...
06-19-2011 03:08 PM
MidwifeErika

Dopplers depend on so many factors from size of the mom (how much belly fat, how deep her pelvis is, shape of pelvis, etc), how high her uterus is, how powerful the probe is, etc. So, usually you can pick up the fhr for the first time somewhere between 8-11 weeks.

 

Fetoscopes can pick up as early as 18 weeks, but become easier to use the later someone is. I have heard that with a Leff style fetoscope, one can pick up FHT as early as 17 weeks, but I have never used one, so I don't know from experience. I want to get one because they can be used under water.... it is on my wish list :)

06-19-2011 08:38 AM
L'lee

Quote:
Originally Posted by L'lee View Post

According to my MW you should be able to hear the heartbeat at about 10 1/2 weeks. I have one at home and have been trying periodically (OK, I'll admit it, mostly every day - LOL!) but I haven't heard anything yet, and I'm at 9 wks today.


OK, I was wrong... I had a MW appt on Thurs and it turns out she meant the doppler (I thought you could hear a HB on the doppler before that?) She said you can't usually hear the HB on the fetoscope until about 18 weeks, or maybe slightly before that if you have a very lean belly.

 

06-13-2011 03:49 AM
montessorimama1

Quote:

Something helpful my midwife said when going the low intervention route that I've said on these boards before: as long as your belly is growing, your baby is growing!



Thank you so much for saying that!  My belly's definitely expanding and what you wrote helped me to breathe a little easier.  This "low intervention" route is a lot tougher than I thought (but so worth it for the baby and the mom, I know!).  :)

06-12-2011 11:58 PM
Devaskyla

Fetoscopes are generally not useful until after 17/18 weeks. I've never heard of anyone being able to hear anything earlier than that with one. Even doppler is usually 12 weeks until you can hear something.

 

My fetoscope went missing shortly after we moved. I really don't want to buy another, so I guess I'm going hunting as soon as I have the energy.....

 

Dh was reading over my shoulder and thinks he's seen it in the last couple weeks, so hopefully it's not too far away.

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