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  Topic Review (Newest First)
11-05-2012 08:38 PM
incorrigible

thanks

11-05-2012 07:29 PM
HappyHappyMommy

Sending support your way! hug.gif
 

11-03-2012 09:02 PM
incorrigible

Earlier today I would have said we were doing great. I just finished a huge blow out fight, followed by a big huggy cry fest with Crash, though. *sigh* Things aren't horrible, but they're still harder than they should be, you know? 

11-03-2012 07:29 PM
HappyHappyMommy

incorrigible, how are you and your family doing? I think of you often.
 

10-09-2012 04:57 PM
Ragana
Quote:
Originally Posted by incorrigible View Post
The superintendent and school board both say the school isn't responsible for the students, even at fully sanctioned school events.

Wow, that sounds like total BS.

 

I have been following your story, and I'm so sorry you are going through this. Stay strong.

10-09-2012 12:12 PM
Evan&Anna's_Mom

Good for you for not just walking away and leaving this situation!  It is really hard to stand up for what is right sometimes and its terrific that you are trying to protect others as well as your son!  YOU GO GIRL!!!
 

10-09-2012 09:46 AM
rubidoux
Quote:
Originally Posted by rightkindofme View Post

Ignoring these girls and letting it continue is poisonous. I don't know what to do about the fact that it is better for everyone to get caught and get some re-education. Obviously they don't understand boundaries. They really need to learn. It is bloody hard t have to go learn these lessons in the school of hard knocks. I have the scars to prove it.

 

I absolutely agree with this and I think it is criminal that the school has knowingly let things snowball the way they have.  I by no means think the girls should be allowed to continue the way they are.  But I cannot imagine someone referring to a little three year old you as a predator.  Rather than punish and vilify that three year old, I think we should be finding ways to support and nurture and fix her.  It sounds to me like you've pretty much done that all by yourself and, while it's laudable that you've done it, it's horrifying to me that this is how we treat kids in our society.  I am not arguing that your little three year old self and these girls don't fit the technical definition of predator, I just think it is shameful that our impulse is to vilify them rather than ask what they need to be fixed and whole and healthy and to not hurt others.  The not hurt others part is hugely important to me.  Not calling them predators, to me, is not the same thing as saying it's okay for them to victimize other people.  

 

I don't think it's the genders of the participants that is making me feel this way.  There was another thread here recently about a ten year old boy exposing himself and I was equally horrified by similar language used about him.  

 

When I first read the replies to my post, I thought, I shouldn't respond because I haven't had the experience of being victimized like these other posters and I should respect their positions (I do btw, respect your positions, even where I don't hold the same ones myself).  And then I remember that I had been raped.  Duh.  And I think my situation actually had a lot in common with what happened to OP's son, though I was a little older and there was actual intercourse involved.  But I actually think the person who did it probably had a very similar attitude to the girls.  I really do think that he didn't "mean any harm" and didn't think he was hurting me.  He was very freaked out to realize that I didn't like it once he got it in, not so much that he stopped, but still.  He was surprised that I didn't want to "go out with him again" (we weren't on a date).  I was and am angry that it happened and angry that he did it.  Mostly I was scared that he'd come back (and he did, breaking into my apartment and leaving me notes when I wasn't there).  But I always had room in my thinking about him to see his humanity, even on the day it happened.  I would never refer to him as a predator even though I feel that what he did was profoundly wrong and I'm sure that he fits the technical definition.  I would much rather see him taken care of and fixed than punished, though the bottom line is that he should be stopped.  I would not expect anyone else to refrain from calling an adult rapist a predator, but I do feel sad and uncomfortable about these children, even though what they did was also profoundly wrong, being called predators.  And rightkindofme, you can call yourself a predator all day long, but I am not going to think of you that way.  

10-09-2012 06:49 AM
VisionaryMom
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubidoux View Post


I am so sorry that this happened to your son and if something similar happened to my child I would be through the roof angry about it, especially considering the fact that none of the authorities seems to think it warrants any kind of attention.
I absolutely don't mean to minimize what happened to your son in any way, but I have felt so uncomfortable with the word "predator" and some of the other language used about the girls throughout this thread. The tragedy here is that these kids, all of them, have been victimized. Sadly, one result of their victimization is that they are now unable or don't know how to be safe around other kids. My guess is that these girls didn't have the sort of relationship w their parents that your son did which made it possible for him to let you know and for you to go to bat for him. While I can totally understand being angry at what they did, I cannot see them as evil and terrible. They are just kids who have been victims in this themselves.

They ARE predators. They also are victims, but that doesn't make them any less sexual predators. I was sexually abused for a long time as a child, and I never sexually assaulted or abused anyone else. They do *not* have to respond in the way they are. That doesn't mean there's no room for compassion or rehabilitation for them, but we NEED to call them what they are so that people can see the truth. The Sandusky scandal had, I hoped, opened some people's eyes to just how much people who think they're good and moral enable sexual abuse, and a lot of that is because people are loathe to call sexual abusers what they are because it is so distasteful. I think this case has the added effect of female perpetrators - male victims. If a girl were to be coerced into performing oral sex on an older teen, no one would say "well, they're just kids who have been victims." We would say "no, that is not acceptable. What they did is sexual assault." These girls are sexual predators any way you slice it. They seek out younger, timid boys who are unlikely to be able to fight back much. That's what predators do. They target their victims; they're not chosen at random.

 

OP, I feel enraged for your son! His story mimics what I'm sure many of us who've been the victims of sexual assault feel. People in charge often don't care, and that certainly includes police. The response we got from our police chief was "but I've known him and his family for years. They'll always help people out." Yes, but they'll also rape them. One doesn't preclude the other, but most people are conditioned by the idea of the creepy child molester and cannot see that complexity. Besides the press, I would consider going to a local rape crisis center. They may be able to provide other assistance and connect you with the right people. I also agree with a pp that trying to find other families who left because of the abuse could be useful - but tough.  

10-09-2012 05:22 AM
rightkindofme
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubidoux View Post

I am so sorry that this happened to your son and if something similar happened to my child I would be through the roof angry about it, especially considering the fact that none of the authorities seems to think it warrants any kind of attention.
I absolutely don't mean to minimize what happened to your son in any way, but I have felt so uncomfortable with the word "predator" and some of the other language used about the girls throughout this thread. The tragedy here is that these kids, all of them, have been victimized. Sadly, one result of their victimization is that they are now unable or don't know how to be safe around other kids. My guess is that these girls didn't have the sort of relationship w their parents that your son did which made it possible for him to let you know and for you to go to bat for him. While I can totally understand being angry at what they did, I cannot see them as evil and terrible. They are just kids who have been victims in this themselves.

When I was a child I was the predator. I didn't go after younger kids, I like my age or a little older. My father started raping me when I was a toddler. I started handing out neighborhood blowjobs at three.

I think people need to press this kind of situation. I was never helped. I never had anyone who was willing to make me understand how hurtful I was being. As an adult I have had contact with some of my "playmates" and I know that some of them believe I was a rapist. I should have gotten in trouble in some way. I needed it.

Ignoring these girls and letting it continue is poisonous. I don't know what to do about the fact that it is better for everyone to get caught and get some re-education. Obviously they don't understand boundaries. They really need to learn. It is bloody hard t have to go learn these lessons in the school of hard knocks. I have the scars to prove it.
10-08-2012 04:23 PM
rubidoux
Quote:
Originally Posted by incorrigible View Post

From what I can tell, we're just a random point on a ripple effect. It sounds like the older girl was abused (don't know if it was related to the school), and when she met the younger girl she started coercing her into sexual situations and behaviors. This was over 3 years ago. The earliest victim who's family I've spoken with had this start for him about 3 years ago. In his case, it's still ongoing and the parents, administrators, etc. discipline him for lying if he ever tries to avoid the girls or say he's unwilling. (we did report this to the police and cps. They feel that it wouldn't happen if he didn't want it. >=/ ) It seems like the older girl and/or both girls were assaulting young boys at school events for at least the last 3 years. They are not the only predators though, as several of the boys they assaulted began mimicking their behaviors to even younger boys and sometimes girls. There are a couple cases that seem to trace back to an even older boy that has since graduated...and that may have caused the same kind of ripple effect. The older girl that assaulted my son may have even been one of his victims. The ages, locations, and timelines all fit for that. This may have been going on, with the administrations knowledge, for as long as 5 - 8 years. They've certainly been covering it for at least 3.

I do intend to go to the press, but I think they're more likely to care if I have something other than my son's word to give them....so, that's what I'm working on right now. The fact is that our society just doesn't care. Our cultural standard is to blame the victim for both being abused and standing up to their abusers. If I'm going to take this on, I want to go in as well armed as possible.

I am so sorry that this happened to your son and if something similar happened to my child I would be through the roof angry about it, especially considering the fact that none of the authorities seems to think it warrants any kind of attention.

I absolutely don't mean to minimize what happened to your son in any way, but I have felt so uncomfortable with the word "predator" and some of the other language used about the girls throughout this thread. The tragedy here is that these kids, all of them, have been victimized. Sadly, one result of their victimization is that they are now unable or don't know how to be safe around other kids. My guess is that these girls didn't have the sort of relationship w their parents that your son did which made it possible for him to let you know and for you to go to bat for him. While I can totally understand being angry at what they did, I cannot see them as evil and terrible. They are just kids who have been victims in this themselves.
10-08-2012 03:46 PM
meemee

jaw.gif dizzy.gif bigeyes.gif WOW!!! just wow!!!

 

all these years and so many children mecry.gif

10-08-2012 03:40 PM
Katielady

I am speechless. What a horror show. I cringe thinking of all the families who may have been affected but were afraid to come forward.

 

Good for you, OP, for continuing to fight this. As a mom I know how very precious one's time and energy are, and I applaud you for spending some of that energy on this important issue. Your son and your family will be the better for it, regardless of the outcome with the school.
 

10-08-2012 02:42 PM
incorrigible

From what I can tell, we're just a random point on a ripple effect. It sounds like the older girl was abused (don't know if it was related to the school), and when she met the younger girl she started coercing her into sexual situations and behaviors. This was over 3 years ago. The earliest victim who's family I've spoken with had this start for him about 3 years ago. In his case, it's still ongoing and the parents, administrators, etc. discipline him for lying if he ever tries to avoid the girls or say he's unwilling. (we did report this to the police and cps. They feel that it wouldn't happen if he didn't want it. >=/ ) It seems like the older girl and/or both girls were assaulting young boys at school events for at least the last 3 years. They are not the only predators though, as several of the boys they assaulted began mimicking their behaviors to even younger boys and sometimes girls. There are a couple cases that seem to trace back to an even older boy that has since graduated...and that may have caused the same kind of ripple effect. The older girl that assaulted my son may have even been one of his victims. The ages, locations, and timelines all fit for that. This may have been going on, with the administrations knowledge, for as long as 5 - 8 years. They've certainly been covering it for at least 3.

 

I do intend to go to the press, but I think they're more likely to care if I have something other than my son's word to give them....so, that's what I'm working on right now. The fact is that our society just doesn't care. Our cultural standard is to blame the victim for both being abused and standing up to their abusers. If I'm going to take this on, I want to go in as well armed as possible.

10-08-2012 01:43 PM
Juvysen

I'm shocked that the girls weren't suspended or something.  Wtf.

10-08-2012 11:03 AM
singin'intherain I can't believe how far reaching this is! Are the two girls the only perpetrators, or have there been others? This is a shocking case of groupthink. Please keep working on this and get this exposed. Call 60 minutes. Tell them the other families are afraid to speak up, that the police don't care.
10-08-2012 08:36 AM
pek64 The other victim and his family are still in the school and denying it? How long has this kind of thing been going on? Any chance of finding someone who left the school to stand with you?
10-08-2012 08:33 AM
rightkindofme

That is why sexual assault victims don't talk about their experiences. I am so angry for your son I am crying. I've had police officers tell me, "Well what else did you expect?" when someone spiked my drink and raped me. I am so sorry.

 

I would tell the press anyway. I would talk to reporter after reporter until I found someone who would write the story of a school that is sending predators off to prey on young children. That's disgusting. I would probably stand in front of the school with large signs.

 

But I have a lot of rage about no one caring about me being raped. I don't know what you should do. I am so angry for your son. 

 

I am so fucking tired of living in a world that tells me that I have no right to believe my genitals should be safe for me. I'm so sorry.

10-08-2012 07:47 AM
incorrigible

The police really don't care and have taken a very firm stance that there's nothing they can do because it's an administrative matter. Right now we're focusing on finding families in the school that have had similar problems, and talking to them. So far, we've found several that would talk to us but none that will admit anything happened to the police or press or to sue. Some have let the administrators convince them everything was the victim's fault. Some just want to forget it ever happened. Unless we can find other families willing to speak up, it's the word of the school, the predators and their families, the other victim and his family...against our son's word. There's no case, and no story. 

10-08-2012 04:15 AM
rightkindofme Call the police and newspapers. The school is facilitating sexual predators and protecting them. That is disgusting and illegal.
10-08-2012 12:05 AM
Linda on the move

Did they put any of this in writing? Have you considered suing?
 

It's hard for me to believe the schools actions are legal.

 

I'm sorry for what your family, especially you son, have been through this year, and I hope things go well for both of you kids in their new educational situations. dust.gif

10-07-2012 11:12 PM
incorrigible

We're doing well enough. Ds is still working through some things, but he seems to have himself together pretty well. He's in a different school, and dd is back to homeschooling. 

 

The superintendent and school board both say the school isn't responsible for the students, even at fully sanctioned school events. So long as they disable the email rights of any student or parent regularly using their system to harass anyone else in their system - they've fulfilled their responsibility. End of story. Anything beyond that is the responsibility of the parent. Since parents are always able to go with on school trips (can even buy into the 12 day international trip for $5k-6k per adult), the parents are 100% responsible for anything that happens to their student - even at events that parents are highly discouraged from attending. The official stance is that the school should not get involved by notifying involved parties, taking disciplinary action of any kind, or notifying the student body that there is an ongoing issues with sexual assaults by students and of students at both sanctioned and "unsanctioned" school events. Doing so might alarm parents and cause a decrease in enrollment. The attitude is that a decrease in enrollment would be catastrophic, where sexually assaulted students is a shame and all but not that big a deal. 

10-07-2012 08:25 PM
HappyHappyMommy

OP, I've been thinking of you. How are you and your family doing?
 

10-02-2012 03:00 PM
harrietsmama

In my state, whether the acts were consensual  or not, the 17 year old girl would be committing a crime.  I strongly feel this boy needs to be taken seriously as having been assaulted.  I can't imagine minimizing just because he felt like he went along with it.  what is he going to do when he has 2 people pushing on him?  I have been in those situations and it is horrifically confusing!!! No means no!  I didn't read the last 2 pages of responses, I got too upset.
 

09-19-2012 05:58 AM
mtiger

I really would find a different educational track for your son. And, as I assume this is not a free school to attend - I would call the BBB.

09-19-2012 01:45 AM
incorrigible

Holy cow, did they manage to shock me in new and disturbing ways!The principal called dh later in the afternoon/evening. He claimed ignorance of pretty much everything, even the things he'd said to me himself. He tried to sweet talk, then strong arm dh into keeping quiet. He "threatened" to notify the victim's family and the girls' families like they promised to in our initial round of talks. I don't understand why this was a threat, but he was pissed when dh chewed him out for not having done so already...and changed his tune again. I don't think they're notifying them. =/ He basically said that he controls our kids files and it's going to look like they're both some kind of sexual deviants/aggressors if we don't just shut up and go away. It was too late for me to get ahold of anyone, but we're going to have to get ahold of the company that handles the enrollments and pull both kids out immediately. We most certainly won't be shutting up, though! I need to carve out the time this week to sit down and get all the dates and names and facts written down in an organized fashion. If some kind of miracle attitude change hasn't happened by the beginning of next week, I'll get ahold of the school board and maybe the press. I'm going to call all the kids' teachers and friends they've made, as soon as we have them unenrolled, too, and get the info moving within the school. I'm so crazy angry that the administration has taken this position. My kids are totally loving this system, and I'm furious to find this level of corruption in it. 

 

As kizmit would have it, dh was also called by 2 (count em 2) prospective employers in the area we want to move, today. Both will pay for the certs he needs, and he's highly qualified for either. One is as a guard at the county jail, and is part of an uber long interview process...he's made it to the next round, but they will be narrowing people down until late Dec. most likely. The other was as a 911 dispatcher/part time relief fireman. The town is so small the dispatcher has to be licensed to jump in the spare truck if there is more than 1 call at a time!!! lol He has an in person interview for that tomorrow. They basically said if it goes well, he'll walk away with an offer...and suggested bringing the family to town so we can "kill 2 birds with 1 stone" and house hunt after he knows he's got it. We're doing just that.

 

 

My head is spinning. There is just too much going on at the same time! 

09-18-2012 07:25 PM
HappyHappyMommy

incorrigible, it's distressing to hear that the school is not taking this seriously. Your DS and your entire community is lucky that you are not keeping quiet about this. You may want to call the local rape crisis center in your area; some rape crisis center have advocates that can assist you with reporting and other matters.

 

Sending support to you and your family.
 

09-18-2012 06:19 PM
Linda on the move Take it to the school board with the names of the people you have spoken to and the dates. Speak you piece out out loud - do not allow some one to take this to the board for you.
09-18-2012 05:29 PM
incorrigible

ok...yesterday I got an "out of office" voice mail and left a message asking for an update. The head of counseling called me this morning and I'm only barely calm enough to write about it now. Basically, the school is taking the stance that unless I can definitively proved that Crash is telling the truth with some kind of physical evidence (like video), there's no reason to think he is. They have no intention of informing the other victim's family or the predators (even after acknowledging that they are most likely acting out because they have experienced abuse). The predators are actively attending events designed for younger students, even though they don't have younger siblings in the correct age range - and the school says they are welcome to continue. They have signed up for events we are taking Crash to, after they see we've signed up. The school suggests that if we don't want to put him at risk, we shouldn't attend any activities or events. 

 

I told her we would be attending whatever events we felt like, including the big open house event they are certain to attend. I told her that if those girls or their families attend, I plan to call the police in the middle of the event and make sure EVERYONE there knows exactly what is going on and how the school has chosen to handle it. I also told her that if the school continues to put the student body at risk by allowing known predators to attend events, I'd go to both the school board and the press. 

 

Honestly, I expect to have to follow through on all counts and I'm beyond PO'd! My kids are really loving and thriving in this program in ways they never have anywhere else. We could theoretically move them over to the "private school" version that's run by the company that produces it (and is only affiliated with the public school version the way two schools using the same math books are).....you know...if we had an extra $11k per year to throw down as tuition. 

 

There are larger implications of the school's policies, too. How many other known predators of various types are being allowed to victimize the students of this school? Honestly, I don't even feel safe letting Spritely chat with the other 6th graders. If the victims are marginalized and discouraged from being active in the school....and the predators are encouraged to maximize their activity...the students seeking out friendships are more likely to be the children of predators, or have some kind of foul intentions themselves. =/ 

 

Beast left a message for the principal, too. It was later in the day, so we'll give him till tomorrow afternoon to call back and tell us they are changing their tune. Otherwise, I'm going on the warpath and making calls to anyone I think might have any obligation or interest. 

09-17-2012 05:17 PM
HappyHappyMommy
Quote:
Originally Posted by incorrigible View Post

oh grrr....I have to throw a fit tomorrow and I'm not looking forward to it.

 

hug2.gifHow did it go when you spoke with the school today? I am so sorry that the school hasn't done more and, in particular, the counselor isn't getting it. Your DS and many other students are lucky that you are advocating for all of the students' safety.

09-17-2012 11:10 AM
Evan&Anna's_Mom

For the lunch thing, or any local events, can you go along?  Seems like that is the only way that your son will be able to attend for a bit and be/feel safe.  I agree that the girls shouldn't be there at all, but as a short-term solution?  Seems like the school should at least allow this.

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