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  Topic Review (Newest First)
09-04-2012 02:30 PM
cynthia mosher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geofizz View Post

This thread has gone pretty far afield of the OP's questions and personal situation.  Can we stick to that?

 

I agree with this. Let's keep the discussion focused on the OP's questions and situation. If anyone wants to debate the bigger topics raised in this thread that are not of direct relation to the OP's needs that would probably be better held as separate discussions and a link to them here for reference and invite participation. 

09-04-2012 01:28 PM
catnip

I realize that there is no way I am going to change the mind of those who are arguing the non-existence of ADHD, but I also hesitate to yield the field, because I know that there are likely to be people reading this thread who would find value in my perspective.

 

I'm going to shut up now.

 

If anyone would like to PM me to talk about my experiences, both with living with ADHD, and with the side effects of stimulant medications used to treat it, I would be happy to talk about it.

09-04-2012 09:50 AM
Geofizz

This thread has gone pretty far afield of the OP's questions and personal situation.  Can we stick to that?

 

Triniity, maybe a clean, new thread would be useful to update us on the opthomologist appointment and how the rest of her situation is progressing.  It sounds like you're headed down the right track to figure out all the factors affecting your daughter's development.

09-04-2012 09:07 AM
Louisw
Quote:
Originally Posted by catnip View Post

We're on the same page about the meds. I will move heaven and earth to avoid them for my kid. But grouping the types of challenges that I face into a set of symptoms that I share with other people helps me to predict situations that I'm going to need to prepare for. I get support from my diagnosis.

 

Well you seem to being doing well for yourself and your daughter. This is the bottom line.

 

God bless you both.

09-04-2012 09:03 AM
Louisw
Quote:

Originally Posted by moominmamma View Post

 

The syndromes can co-exist, and the symptoms can be similar, but they are completely separate diagnostic entities according to all but a few outlier researchers and therapists working in the field.

Do you understand what you have said?

 

Here is a common view of autism and ADHD.

 

http://www.retrainthebrain.com/autism.html

 

IMO we have to start with this FACT.

 

ADHD is NOT a medical diagnosis

 

So what is ADHD?

 

Is your ADHD the same as my ADHD? How do we tell?

 

When we label any "disease" a syndrome it means we do NOT KNOW WHAT IT IS. We do not understand how it originates. We do not understand how it develops. We do not understand its bio-chemical mechanisms. All we know are a few diagnosing symptoms.

09-04-2012 08:21 AM
moominmamma
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louisw View Post

I have long been very interested in autism. ADHD is generally considered as a member of the Autism Spectrum of Diseases. 

 

This is the extent of your experience with ADHD? Being interested in a disorder that sometimes co-exists with it? And no, ADHD is not "generally considered a member of the Autism Spectrum of Diseases." The syndromes can co-exist, and the symptoms can be similar, but they are completely separate diagnostic entities according to all but a few outlier researchers and therapists working in the field.

 

Miranda

09-04-2012 06:17 AM
pek64 I think that too many kids get the label of ADHD when all they are is bright, energetic, enthusiastic, and lots of other good qualities!

I, personally, chose to homeschool for a variety of reasons, one of which was my son's difficulity sitting still. I felt he would outgrow it or learn coping mechanisms. He has, a little of both. I'm not sure if it (AHDH) is truly a disorder, but I do believe it is too often used by some to control children who are just bright.

I'm not sure how this helps the OP. I guess I'm just adding one more voice questioning the need to put a label on a child. It should be done only if the *child* will benefit.
09-04-2012 12:53 AM
catnip
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louisw View Post

Do you remember being so excited YOU could not wait to speak? I do. What a total thrill to live like this 24x7. What a life. WE need to learn to adapt to these lucky kids. Yes I know all the downsides.

No. You don't. You don't know what it's like to get into a fight with your husband because you screwed up and impulsively talked about his personal stuff to a totally inappropriate person. Trust me, it is no bloody thrill to live with 24/7.

I was diagnosed with ADHD in 1982. I was 8. I was on Ritalin for 10 years. I've learned to live without it for the past 20. My daughter is seven. She has ADHD, but is not medicated, because, hey! We homeschool, and work around her challenges. She's never going to qualify for security clearances, or be the CEO of a bank, but she's going to be brilliant at what she does decide to do.

We're on the same page about the meds. I will move heaven and earth to avoid them for my kid. But grouping the types of challenges that I face into a set of symptoms that I share with other people helps me to predict situations that I'm going to need to prepare for. I get support from my diagnosis.

If you've been paying attention here, though, the OP lives in a country where homeschooling is not an option, so the advice of adapt and homeschool is not helpful in this situation.
09-03-2012 12:19 PM
Louisw
Quote:
Originally Posted by catnip View Post

 

So, tell me. What is your experience in dealing with ADHD?

 

Your "bogus label" gives access to coping strategies. How do you justify that somehow being harmful?

 

Yes, ADHD is overdiagnosed. That doesn't make it nonexistent.

 

I don't think that drugging kids into conformity is a solution to ADHD. But telling a kid who is just flat INCAPABLE of waiting for a turn to speak, sitting still and taking a test, breaking a task down into manageable steps "oh, you are just lazy, crazy, stupid, not applying yourself, not trying, willful, disobedient, bad" does not help. Period.

 

And I refuse to ruin my day by watching anymore of your video links. They are too long and boring anyway.

 

I have long been very interested in autism. ADHD is generally considered as a member of the Autism Spectrum of Diseases.  ADHD can be VERY harmful because it has been used to put about ten million totally innocent kids on deadly drugs that put kids into a trance and increase their risk of death about five fold and do NOTHING to address the causes of whatever problems, if any these kids have.

 

"Yes, ADHD is overdiagnosed" ADHD is NO one thing. ADHD is OFTEN "vaccine" damage; it can be MANY other things.

 

"But telling a kid who is just flat INCAPABLE of waiting for a turn to speak" MANY kids need PERSONAL attention; they need home school especially if they are "vaccine" damaged; this is just a FACT. We do not have the time to learn enough about health so we TRUST our doctors with our one hour babies health and they shove a needle LOADED with toxins into our newborn. We do not have enough time to teach our kids so we send them to a government "school" where more needles are shoved into them and government propaganda is passed off as "education". If our kids are not important WHAT IS?

 

Do you remember being so excited YOU could not wait to speak? I do. What a total thrill to live like this 24x7. What a life. WE need to learn to adapt to these lucky kids. Yes I know all the downsides.

09-02-2012 04:05 PM
catnip
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louisw View Post

 

ADHD is a syndrome it is not a medical diagnosis.

 

IMO ADHD can be MANY things among them

 

o A bogus Label  signifying nothing more than a kid difficult to deal with

 

o A physical problem or problems, often the result of vaccine damage.

 

o Something as simple as diet issues such as sugar and chemicals in food.

 

o MANY other things

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P6_FwpVo_s&feature=related

.

 

So, tell me. What is your experience in dealing with ADHD?

 

Your "bogus label" gives access to coping strategies. How do you justify that somehow being harmful?

 

Yes, ADHD is overdiagnosed. That doesn't make it nonexistent.

 

I don't think that drugging kids into conformity is a solution to ADHD. But telling a kid who is just flat INCAPABLE of waiting for a turn to speak, sitting still and taking a test, breaking a task down into manageable steps "oh, you are just lazy, crazy, stupid, not applying yourself, not trying, willful, disobedient, bad" does not help. Period.

 

And I refuse to ruin my day by watching anymore of your video links. They are too long and boring anyway.

09-02-2012 12:35 AM
Triniity

Hi,

update: I had this looong discussion with the psychologist from the "Giftedness Advise Thingie" (I don't know how to translate that winky.gif

 

It was very helpful, and very interesting. He said, that the tests in combination with DD1 behaviour sounds very much like giftedness plus her behaviour sounds perfectly normal for someone "underchallenged". He advised us to see the school psychologist for our area and have her put in the giftedness program (which is a special day once a week)  - even though we cannot really "test" her  - due to the visual problems.

 

We'll see the ophthamologist in a couple of weeks, and I'll write an email before to make sure I won't forget the questions.

 

@tigerle: Thank you for the book advise, it is very interesting!

 

She is starting to get physical problems like headaches and bellypain, plus she is wetting the bed every night. We will see the best child psychologist ever next week (my biased opinion :) ) I am worried. She is a happy little monkey most of the times, but sometimes she appears to be ... I cannot really put my finger on it. We are just in week four for god's sake!

 

I don't know if I over- or underschedule her. She has an activity three times a week - she has chosen all of them and wants to go to all of them. Tue swimming, thursday ballett, friday violine and sat horseriding - she wants to go, I always ask her if she wants to stay home or to go. Now she wants to learn the flute on top of that, but I think that it is becoming too much.

 

It is really difficult! I guess though that I should have anticipated that it will become more difficult the first couple of weeks in school, since now she is underchallenged and not allowed to do what she wants.

 

I really would like to have a good afterschool program, but I am such an unorganized person, I cannot really find one.

09-01-2012 08:32 PM
Louisw
Quote:

Originally Posted by catnip View Post

 

ADHD is NOT a 'bogus mental disorder'.

 

ADHD is a syndrome it is not a medical diagnosis.

 

IMO ADHD can be MANY things among them

 

o A bogus Label  signifying nothing more than a kid difficult to deal with

 

o A physical problem or problems, often the result of vaccine damage.

 

o Something as simple as diet issues such as sugar and chemicals in food.

 

o MANY other things

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P6_FwpVo_s&feature=related

.

09-01-2012 02:02 PM
melissa17s

I have looked up good info on for my twice exceptional child at this site http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/twice_exceptional.htm  If you want specific site for adhd, look to Chadd.org and there is also a good magazine with a site http://www.additudemag.com/

 

I found the videos posted very misleading and not helpful; the second one seem as close as you can get to propaganda. 

09-01-2012 11:35 AM
catnip

Oh gods I HATE that video.

 

You know what? I'd much rather be 'labeled' ADHD than called stupid, lazy, unmotivated, absentminded, and weak willed.
 

I'd rather understand why some things are harder for me than hate myself because I can't sit still to do a 3 minute timed math test.

 

I'd rather have access to the coping strategies that other people with the same challenges that I face figured out before me.

 

ADHD is NOT a 'bogus mental disorder'. Most people do not forget to eat for 2 days because they are hyperfocused on a project. Adults don't generally have incontinence episodes because they have tuned out body signals. People don't generally need to resort to elaborate coping strategies in order to enjoy sex because otherwise, it is too boring. Most adults don't need a restraining hand on their shoulder to keep them from absentmindedly wandering out into traffic. Most people can sit still through a television program or a movie. Most of you can probably keep a holiday gift a secret for a few weeks. And most moms hear their kid before the 7th time they've been interrupted from a book.

 

Your maligned 'label' has given me access to all sorts of insight into how to live with my differences. ADHD isn't an entirely bad thing. As the secondary label that the child reveals shows, people with ADHD are often innovators. They are capable of going outside the lines, seeing both the big picture and the little details, thinking outside the box. So many brilliant, creative people are different like that.

 

I'm very anti-ADHD drug, but I am very pro-diagnosis, because knowing what your challenges are are essential to not being blindsided by them. I may never be suited to certain jobs, but I am brilliant at the things that I can do.

08-31-2012 07:54 PM
Louisw

What do labels mean?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv49RFo1ckQ&feature=player_embedded
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPgqLWrqeFk&feature=related

 

Labels often mean your child is being targeted and will become a victim UNLESS you stop it.

08-26-2012 11:34 PM
LynnS6

In terms of "wait and see" -- are the ADHD symptoms causing her issues at school and at home? If not, then I think wait and see is reasonable. You can read up on ADHD and on ways to help kids with ADHD with self-regulation (it's often a problem not only for attention, but also for emotions and behavior). You can subtly work on those skills. If/when her issues become too much to handle for school or she's getting out of control at home (huge tantrums, not able to be calmed, rigid defiance are all things I've seen in ADHD kids, and I'm sure there are more), then you can think about outside behavioral therapy and/or meds. What you want to prevent is her feeling really bad about herself because she simply can't function in the situations where she's expected to function. But for now, it sounds like she's doing OK.

08-26-2012 08:03 AM
Triniity

Thank you all for your input! I never thought about the vision problems as something that has such an input on the behaviour. I just accepted it as something that was there.

 

She is farsighted, severly, with around 7 dpt (I don't know if you have the same measurement in the us) and is squinting with one eye, which caused the loss of 3-d-vision.(even though we detected the problems when she was two and she got glasses immediatly)

the test result came rather unexpected.

 

I will get another appointment and will write an email to her eye doctor as well. We'll see where this goes.

 

I had a talk with her teacher the other day, and she is quite happy with her. The teacher is really nice and bubbly, and she likes her alot ! She says there are no problems whatsoever, she is a bit impulsive, but they are working on it, and it got already a lot better.

 

@tigerle: Thank you for the suggestions - and do you know what Raum-Lage is in english? ;) I will have a deep look into the book

 

My DH says I am getting obsessed by DDs problems and I should just wait and see. What do you guys think? I don't feel comfortable with wait and see. and want to help her!

08-25-2012 01:59 PM
Tigerle

I felt this was a very helpful and informative thread until it started to verge off on OT topics such as the alleged link between autism and vaccinations or state propaganda in government schools and violations of the forum rules such as calling the term gifted overused and useless or stating that a "globally" or "truly" gifted child couldn't have problems in school anyway.

No one is trying to stop anyone from thinking, but it would be simple courtesy to stick to the OP's problem, which is teasing apart whether her DD's problems stem from ADHD, lack of challenge due to a poor educational fit, visual processing problems, other sensory processing problems or some or all of the above. And now I'll shut up because I am not a moderator and I don't want to derail this thread any further either, and I really don't want to pick a fight or be negative or set an agenda in somebody else's thread.

Can we all get along and just go back to the questions the OP has been asking please? And to the fact that it has been established that her daughter has a serious visual processing issue, that has as yet (as I understand) been undiagnosed and untreated and that she has been told that giftedness cannot be established until it has - which also means, as several posters have pointed out now, that ADHD cannot be established until it has, because it is a diagnosis of exclusion. At this point, I'd truly throw all my energy into getting to the bottom of the vision issues because the child has already started first grade and the OP is already suspecting that it might stop her DD from making progress in reading and writing.

 

OP, I went over the vision chapter in "The Mislabeled Child" and it looks like it might be very helpful to you, because it focuses mostly on the kind of vision issues which aren't easibly detectable or "visible" to parents or even eye doctors, and has examples and exercises for parents to help them understand how their child might be seeing the world - and, of course exercises for the child. I'd get it ASAP  - it also has a very informative chpater about giftedness and what it might masquerade as, and what ADHD really is and isn't (and is VERY sceptical about medication - which is something I think we can ALL agree on: don't let them push you into medicating your DD, the testers advocating this on the flimsy grounds they have sound really irresponsible!)

 

Edited to add that when we were at a point when we felt unable to tell whether DS's behavioral problems were due to giftedness, ADHD, sensory processing disorder or autism we sort of took a multicausal approach: we had testing done to rule out ADHD and autism, did a round of OT, instituted a sensory diet, reduced stimulation during the workweek, talked to the preschool teachers about challenge, structure and social stressors, checked out the food and sleep angle, really worked hard to make sure he had regular protein-rich meals to ward off reactive  hypoglycemia, added supplements (vitamin D, fish oil, magnesium, zinc) to be calmer during the day and fall asleep within less than two hours of tossing and turning - I can't say which had the most input in making things better (and they got a lot better very soon) but I can tell you the thing which was least helpful: the negative resp. inconclusive testing for autism (ADHD was ruled out by the psychiatrist on the spot "if this is anything it's autism!" duh. It wasn't.

08-24-2012 11:12 PM
heatherdeg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerle View Post

I should try to get to the bottom of the vision issues before you pursue the ADHD angle any further. Vision issues can mimic ADHD. 

 

yeahthat.gif  The most common vision issue that presents like ADHD is called "convergence insufficiency".  You will know they checked for it if they used that machine where they keep switching the lenses and ask you if things look better or worse.  It is thankfully able to be worked with and usually corrected.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by catnip View Post

Most of the drugs for ADHD are powerful stimulants. They raise your heart rate and your blood pressure. They cause a constant low level nausea, and suppress the appetite to non-existence. They exacerbate anxiety, insomnia, and OCD, all of which are common in people with ADHD.

 

yeahthat.gif  And to be honest, there are so many natural ways to address the issue before having to resort to drugs that many parents resort to the drugs if only to get through the list of all the natural alternatives.  Here is a list of 5 things to rule out before an ADHD diagnosis.

 

But in this case, it really does sound like boredom.   Hugs, mama.

08-24-2012 09:23 PM
catnip Most of the drugs for ADHD are powerful stimulants. They raise your heart rate and your blood pressure. They cause a constant low level nausea, and suppress the appetite to non-existence. They exacerbate anxiety, insomnia, and OCD, all of which are common in people with ADHD.
08-24-2012 12:18 PM
Louisw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louisw View Post

 

I was only relaying what I found profound about vision problems and POSSIBLE other problems.

 

One of the defining characteristics of autism is "they cannot look you directly in the eyes"

 

This has been interpreted as an "emotional" issue. But what if it is a simple VISION issue that has NOTHING to do with emotions? The kids with autism IMO usually have NO emotional problems. They are trapped in a body that has been drugged ("vaccinated") into such a poor functional state they must cope with actions that are interpreted as emotional.

 

The good thing is we have seen the kid is still there under the autism. IMO there are usually no emotional problems. Get rid of the mercury and aluminum and other toxins and your kid can return vision, emotions and ALL.

08-24-2012 11:58 AM
Louisw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerle View Post

Louisw, I really don't understand what accusing government schools of instilling state propaganda and quotes about autistic children have to do with triniity's child, which was diagnosed with vision problems and possible ADHD, not autism, and which is complaining about boredom, not propaganda.

 

I was only relaying what I found profound about vision problems and POSSIBLE other problems.

 

ADHD and autism often are symptoms of vaccine induced disease. "Vaccinate" a little you may get ADHD, "vaccinate" some more you may get autism.

 

ADHD can also be many other things. Mostly it is a scam designed to put toxic useless drugs into kids; just as "vaccination" is a deadly scam designed to put toxic useless drugs into kids..

 

The CHIEF function of government schools is IMO the instillation of state propaganda. Even small children can smell propaganda and MANY find it boring.

08-24-2012 06:01 AM
serenbat

my comment was just my view- you can't stop others from thinking

 

this thread is so negative it comes off as really trying to set an agenda and picking who should and what should be posted instead of a welcoming and open discussion-very disappointing 

08-23-2012 10:51 PM
Triniity

Hi all,

I appreciate your input, but could we stop the propaganda discussion? Homeschool is not possible around here anyway. ;)

08-23-2012 06:18 PM
serenbat
Quote:
Louisw, I really don't understand what accusing government schools of instilling state propaganda and quotes about autistic children have to do with triniity's child, which was diagnosed with vision problems and possible ADHD, not autism, and which is complaining about boredom, not propaganda.

 

 

I feel the autism quote was appropriate given -  I am trying to understand the visual problems, but it's so difficult to imagine someone not really seeing,

 

Louisw was stating (as I am interrupting it) as how others SEE- I find the quote touching and fitting

 

 

 

Quote:
and which is complaining about boredom, not propaganda.

many who HS do view the state run education as propaganda and HS because of it- I completely get it-mindless nonsense is often propaganda and indoctrination follows-getting everyone on the same page

most children have no idea what propaganda is or if they are being fed it-sadly most adults don't either

08-23-2012 01:52 PM
Tigerle

Louisw, I really don't understand what accusing government schools of instilling state propaganda and quotes about autistic children have to do with triniity's child, which was diagnosed with vision problems and possible ADHD, not autism, and which is complaining about boredom, not propaganda.

08-23-2012 11:54 AM
Louisw
Quote:

Originally Posted by Triniity View Post

 

@tigerle: Thank you for your encouragement! I am trying to understand the visual problems, but it's so difficult to imagine someone not really seeing, I just can't do that very well. Especially since I don't really recognize it in our day-to-day life.

 

“Autistic children try to make sense of the world around them by lining up toys, sorting by color. They have to "see" objects by adding boxes together, thus "thinking in pictures. Their avoidance of eye contact is an attempt to get light to land off center in the retina where they have some rod function. Suddenly mother’s touch feels like sand-paper on their skin. Common sounds become like nails scraped on a blackboard. We think they cannot abstract, but we are sinking these children into an abstract painting at 18 months of age and they are left trying to figure out if the language they are hearing is connected to what they are looking at.”  Mary Megson, MD.

08-22-2012 10:55 PM
Triniity

Unfortunately we live in germany and here it's illegal to homeschool. Plus, since there are next to none homeschool families, there is not much in terms of homeschool curriculums. And - I don't feel that I am a good teacher at all. I am just like my Dad was with me, I get really impatient and tense if they don't get what I try to teach that instant. I mean I know that it's not there fault, and if it's anybodys fault than mine, but I am not very good at it.

 

Our OT already offered to work with the teachers to get a little extra program for DD including more possibilities to get physically active plus stuff to do if schoollife gets boring.

 

There is a outsourced program for gifted kids as well, the "exploration day", which is a day out of school once a week. I'll see if DD is a candidate for that.

 

@tigerle: Thank you for your encouragement! I am trying to understand the visual problems, but it's so difficult to imagine someone not really seeing, I just can't do that very well. Especially since I don't really recognize it in our day-to-day life.

 

@catnip: What did Ritalin do to your body?

08-22-2012 08:46 PM
Louisw
Quote:

Originally Posted by Triniity View Post

 

She is in her first week of school and is already complaining that she is bored and does not want to sit that long! What can I do?!

 

 If it is possible please get her in a home school situation; your home or a shared home. Kids are not designed to sit for hours and hours; this is much of the problem with school.

 

We home schooled our kids and most days they were finished with their school tasks by noon. If they wanted an hour to run and play they were done at one. Their choice.

 

Government schools are often tedious at best. State propaganda seems to be much of what kids are supposed to "learn". No wonder the kids are bored out of their skulls.

08-22-2012 04:56 AM
Tigerle

I should try to get to the bottom of the vision issues before you pursue the ADHD angle any further. Vision issues can mimic ADHD. There is a whole chapter on this in  "The mislabeled Child" by the Eides (available on amazon).

 

And ignore those posters who insist that your child being "gifted" must mean she never has any educational problems, or that gifted is a useless label anyway. I always find this kind of comment a bit rich from people turning up in a forum that is called "Parenting the Gifted Child" and that explicitly states in the UA that debating the concept of giftedness is not allowed.

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