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  Topic Review (Newest First)
02-13-2013 05:53 AM
Dakotacakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmy526 View Post

http://sunatimes.com/view.php?id=2554


This seems to be implying that the WHO and the UN purposely tried to commit ethnocide and genocide in Chad and then when the children didn't die but just became sick they paid hush money and proceeded to establish a massive coverup.

This is a pretty far fetched idea. To be Frank if the WHO and the UN wanted to commit ethnocide and genocide (which they do NOT) they have far better tools at their disposal than menengitits vaccines which have been used for millions of people without incident.
02-13-2013 05:45 AM
prosciencemum
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeckyBird View Post

 

Or: What is the quickest way to remove the Prime Minister of Chad? If you guessed assassination, coup d'etat, or war, you would be incorrect! 

 

Right, because nothing else could be happening in Chad - a country bigger than Texas and California put together, and with a population of over 12 million...... 

 

I seriously doubt that political changes in the country are down to a vaccination reaction scare with 500 children which only VaxTruthLies.com seems bothered about. I suspect there are a lot more things in Chad for the government officials to disagree over and/or be corrupt about.

 

It's not always (or hardly ever for most people) about vaccinations. 

 

(PS. I was writing the above when Dakotacakes put up her comments along the same lines.)

02-13-2013 05:38 AM
Dakotacakes Before we can tell if it suspricious we should see if it is a deviation from normal for the political system in Chad. First Nadinger was not relieved of his duties, he resigned. I also think we should consider how long Prime Minsters serve generally in Chad before declaring a suspricious cover up.

Nadinger served 33 months. Before Nadinger
Abbas served 23 months. Before Abbas
Koumakoye served 12 months before Koumakoye
Younousmi served 3 days (he was a placeholder) before that
Pascal served 48 months. Before Pascal
Faki served 20 months. Before Faki
Kabadi served 12 months.

Doesn't look suspricous to me, it just looks like the Prime Minister of of Chad resigned after serving slighly more than the average length of time a Prime Minster of Chad spends in Office.
02-13-2013 04:58 AM
emmy526

http://sunatimes.com/view.php?id=2554

 

 

Quote:
The A-Z of a vaccination disaster in remote Africa
02-12-2013 09:04 PM
beckybird

Suspicious activity surrounding the Chad Vaccine Fiasco......do I detect hints of a cover up? I thought there were no injuries, that the kids were just delusional!  It makes you wonder....

 

"Shortly after VacTruth published the first of three articles covering the MenAfriVac vaccine tragedy in which dozens of children were paralyzed, in Gouro, Chad, in northern Africa, the prime minister of Chad, Emmanuel Nadingar, was relieved of his duties and replaced by the former chief of cabinet, Djimrangar Dadnadji. According to an excellent article by the human rights organization Ecoterra International, this abrupt change in leadership was ordered by Chad’s president Idris Déby, a patron of the anti-meningitis campaign. [1]"

 

 

"A few weeks later, VacTruth was informed that the health minister of Chad, Mamouth Nahor N’Gawara, had also been relieved of his duties and replaced by Dr. Mahamat Ahmat Djidda. [3]"

http://vactruth.com/2013/02/12/vaccine-cover-up/

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           

Let this be a lesson to officials: Don't say anything negative about vaccines, ever. Unless you want to lose your job--then you may speak up if there is ever a vaccine-related problem!

 

Or: What is the quickest way to remove the Prime Minister of Chad? If you guessed assassination, coup d'etat, or war, you would be incorrect! 

01-26-2013 11:22 PM
pek64 Who are the independent investigators? Who is paying them?
01-26-2013 08:46 PM
eireann

What reason do you have to trust these investigators? Did they prove themselves elsewhere as a reliable, unbiased source, or is it because their findings are in line with your beliefs? 

01-25-2013 12:26 PM
Rrrrrachel I trust the independent investigators (not the government of chad) more than some random anonymous source of someone who is basically a blogger.
01-25-2013 12:17 PM
Mirzam
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

Quote:

Why I am not surprised?

 

Me neither. Think it might be a different thing I'm not surprised about from VaxTruthLies.com though....

This is entirely your opinion. You have no way of possibly knowing who is telling the truth. However, the pathetic conclusion that the investigation came to does not make me trust the Chadean goverment one bit. 

 

I commend Christina England in reporting on this story, otherwise it would have never gotten out.

01-25-2013 12:03 PM
Rrrrrachel Why am I not surprised about the number of people taking unsubstantiated rumors as fact because it suits them?
01-25-2013 11:53 AM
prosciencemum
Quote:

Why I am not surprised?

 

Me neither. Think it might be a different thing I'm not surprised about from VaxTruthLies.com though....

01-25-2013 11:48 AM
Mirzam
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeckyBird View Post

This?

 

"The crises are triggered by noise, visits by foreigners, and the occurrence of crises among other patients.
Apart from these agitated periods, the children lead normal lives."

 

"The symptoms observed in patients are similar to those described in the literature under several names:
o Collective hysteria
o Collective obsessive behavior
o Mass psychogenic phenomenon"

 

?

And you believe this?

Seems there is more to the story, that the Chadean goverment is leaving out.

 

African Children Still Paralyzed After Vaccines, Goverment Says It Is All In Their Head

 

 

 

 

Quote:

According to the statement, one child who never received the meningitis shot ‘complained of suffering from the same symptoms’ found in the other children.” [3]

However, a contact in Chad gave VacTruth an extremely different version of events. He said:

“The government and the World Health Organization have made up these facts.

The government banned journalists from visiting the hospital since the children brought in. (sic) All the children from Gouro received the vaccine.  

Firstly, they (Government/WHO) collaborated with the school’s headmaster who locked the school’s main door before vaccinating all the children. The school headmaster told the children that anyone who refused the vaccine would be banned from school and be arrested.

Secondly, they went door to door and injected the babies over one year.”

Why I am not surprised?

01-25-2013 05:25 AM
chickabiddy

http://science.howstuffworks.com/life/collective-hysteria.htm

01-25-2013 05:16 AM
Rrrrrachel Pek, it's not like being vaccinated here. It's an isolated group of people with little to no regular access to medical are in a climate that is EXTREMELY suspicious of vaccines and the groups that give them. It's a situation ripe for that kind of thing.

Not to mention all the medical tests and examinations came back NORMAL.
01-24-2013 11:43 PM
pek64 Collective hysteria? I find that hard to believe. What gave them the idea to be paralyzed?
01-24-2013 11:14 PM
prosciencemum There's a discussion of the report here http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2013/01/meningitis-vaccine-in-chad-not-the-cause-of-paralysis.html

It implies most of the children/young people are fine now and have gone home. Going from what was reported as compete paralysis to fine in less than a month sounds psychological to me....

Also if its true, that an unvaccinated child had the symptoms too would seem very conclusive.
01-24-2013 08:29 PM
eireann
lol.gif
01-24-2013 04:26 PM
Rrrrrachel I knew that would go over like a lead balloon, but I don't see any reason not to believe it. It makes more sense to me than that 36 vaccines out of a lot of thousands randomly (and all in the same village) caused paralysis, including somehow in a child that wasn't vaccinated.
01-24-2013 04:22 PM
beckybird

This?

 

"The crises are triggered by noise, visits by foreigners, and the occurrence of crises among other patients.
Apart from these agitated periods, the children lead normal lives."

 

"The symptoms observed in patients are similar to those described in the literature under several names:
o Collective hysteria
o Collective obsessive behavior
o Mass psychogenic phenomenon"

 

?

And you believe this?

01-24-2013 04:09 PM
Rrrrrachel The link I posted above is the results of the investigation.
01-24-2013 03:20 PM
pers
Apparently one of the paralysed kids was not vaccinated.  
 

 

Quote:

Chad's government on Tuesday said a team of international experts have not been able to find any links between the hospitalization of 38 children and their recent vaccinations against meningitis.

The children fell ill in the northern village of Gouro and were admitted to hospital after being vaccinated in a government campaign against the disease between December 11 and 15.

[...]

According to the statement, one child who never received the meningitis shot "complained of suffering from the same symptoms" found in the other children.

[...]

 

 

 

 

The same article claims that the children have recovered and are leading normal lives again, and that over 100 million people across ten countries in Africa were vaccinated with this vaccine in 2012.

 

Could it still be a coverup and they are lying that one of the sick kids had not had the vaccine?  Sure.

 

But 100,000,000 doses... If it caused such terrible reactions at a rate of even close to 40 out of 500 in general, it would be impossible to cover up, so why is this one small village being hit so badly?  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pek64 View Post

More recent online stories are saying up to 50 paralyzed. Not confirmed with the news, though.

Paralysis occurred within 24 hours of the vaccine. If it wasn't the vaccine itself, then it would seem those who brought the vaccine also brought the cause of the problem. Still concerning. How long will the investigation take?

 

I've seen sites saying that some or  many of them started showing symptoms shortly after or 24 hours, but what source is saying paralysis occurred within 24 hours? 

 

It's possible they brought a disease in with them or caused it to spread by not following proper sanitary procedures... or it's possible it was entirely unrelated to the vaccine and the timing is coincidental.  I do hope they continue to investigate and are able to determine the exact cause of the illness, but assuming the do find it worth paying for the investigation, sadly it is unlikely we will ever hear the results (unless they find it was the vaccine after all) as Western media is generally not that concerned with the going ons of a remote village in Africa, and Vaxtruth and such is very unlikely to retract their claims or spread the word if a non-vaccine cause is determined. 

01-24-2013 02:34 PM
Rrrrrachel http://www.meningvax.org/files/2ndstatementMoHChad_21Jan2013.pdf
01-24-2013 01:57 PM
pek64 More recent online stories are saying up to 50 paralyzed. Not confirmed with the news, though.

Paralysis occurred within 24 hours of the vaccine. If it wasn't the vaccine itself, then it would seem those who brought the vaccine also brought the cause of the problem. Still concerning. How long will the investigation take?
01-21-2013 10:33 AM
pers

Quote:
Originally Posted by pek64 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

And by "region" you mean "village."

 

 
Your point??

 

 

Using "region" implies that it happened over a larger, more spread out area.  That they were all from one village means the children likely had a lot more in common/a lot more shared exposure to other things beyond having gotten the same vaccine at the same time than if they lived farther apart.  

 

According to a google, the population of Gouro is "very small" according to some sources and "under a thousand" according to others.  If it really is under a thousand, and 500 were vaccinated there, then that means somewhere between half the population and the entire population (depending on how much under a thousand it is) was vaccinated at the same time.  Most likely pretty much all (if not actually all) the younger people and kids at least got the vaccine.  So if it was an unrelated virus or chemical exposure or whatever that was just coincidental to the time of the vaccination, you aren't going to see it happening in unvaxed kids too to reveal that if there are no (or very few) kids who weren't vaccinated.  

 

If it was a problem with the vaccine, that it happened only in this one village and to such a high number of people implies that it most likely isn't a problem inherent in the vaccine but rather that the vaccine was contaminated with something whether by accident or tampering, onsite or at the place of manufacture, or a problem in the administering of the vaccine.  I would imagine that one of the things the investigation will check is whether the kids who were paralyzed all got vaccine from a particular lot that wasn't used anywhere else.  

 

But how big are vaccine lots?  Since this is supposed to be a cheap vaccine, I would guess (and I could be entirely wrong on this) that they make it in fairly large batches and it seems unlikely that one small village would use up an entire batch.  So if it were the vaccine, why would be seeing this only in one small village, at least if it was a problem from manufacture?

 

I guess we will have to wait and see what the investigation turns up.  

01-21-2013 10:05 AM
pek64
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

There's a statement here http://www.meningvax.org/files/MVPstatement_10Jan2013_EN.pdf from the Menigitus Project about the news article. It says: 


 



How reassuring that they are taking this report seriously, investigating it properly and plan to publicise the results once they have them. Just what I would hope would happen after reports of what looks like it could be a serious vaccine reaction. 


In ten days, there's no additional information?
01-21-2013 10:03 AM
pek64
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

That's really not how the maths would be done. It's 40 reactions in that week - did 40 happens every week? It seems not or we'd be hearing about them here I suspect. 


Then what can be compared? The 40 paralyzed in a small region/village in Chad has already been compared to the number of vpd or meningitis deaths for the entire continent of Africa. It has been compared, by you, to the number of deaths in Chad for a three month period. OHHHH! It's acceptable to compare the forty to ANY number of deaths, as long as the number of deaths is greater, and makes the vaccine seem safe!!! Thanks for the info!
01-21-2013 05:26 AM
Rrrrrachel Yeah, I took that as investigating what caused the circumstances of the article, aka the paralysis, just awkwardly worded.
01-21-2013 04:04 AM
rachelsmama
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

There's a statement here http://www.meningvax.org/files/MVPstatement_10Jan2013_EN.pdf from the Menigitus Project about the news article. It says: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How reassuring that they are taking this report seriously, investigating it properly and plan to publicise the results once they have them. Just what I would hope would happen after reports of what looks like it could be a serious vaccine reaction. 


I'd be more reassured if they were investigating what happened to the paralysed kids, instead of what lead to the publication of the article.  Hopefully that was just a poor choice of words.

01-21-2013 02:48 AM
prosciencemum

There's a statement here http://www.meningvax.org/files/MVPstatement_10Jan2013_EN.pdf from the Menigitus Project about the news article. It says: 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote:

 

Ferney-Voltaire, 10 January 2013The Meningitis Vaccine Project learned of the story published in the Chadian weekly La Voix regarding the MenAfriVac vaccine that was introduced in Gouro in December 2012. On behalf of our global partners, we wish to emphasize that we

take every MenAfriVac-related report very seriously.

 

An investigation team is on the ground in Chad to explore what caused these statements. All available data point to the high safety and effectiveness of the vaccine. We believe that the investigation in Chad will shed light on the exact circumstances that caused the publication of the article in La Voix. We will make that information public as the scientific reports become available. 

 

 

 

How reassuring that they are taking this report seriously, investigating it properly and plan to publicise the results once they have them. Just what I would hope would happen after reports of what looks like it could be a serious vaccine reaction. 

01-21-2013 02:44 AM
prosciencemum
Quote:
Originally Posted by pek64 View Post


40 in one week compared to 88 in three months. Divide the 88 by 12, the number of weeks in that 3month period, is 7.3.

So 40 compared to 7.3. How does that look?

 

That's really not how the maths would be done. It's 40 reactions in that week - did 40 happens every week? It seems not or we'd be hearing about them here I suspect. 

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