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  Topic Review (Newest First)
01-24-2013 06:23 AM
celticopia

Wow, ok, I had just seen that the US is pretty low in breastfeeding rates, as is Ireland, where we live now. I assumed (obviously wrongly) that they must have been higher back in the day. I guess I was wrong.

01-23-2013 07:55 AM
Mirzam
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

Hiuh.  I have not heard of this.  A quick google search is not showing this. 

 

 

 

Breastfeeding rates have not declined since the huge rise in the number of vaccines administered to babies, here is an historical graph, taken from The Resurgance of Breastfeeding:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote:
Between 1971 and 1995, increases in breastfeeding initiation occurred in all groups for which data are available. In contrast, the increase that occurred between 1984 to 1995 involved those groups that have been less likely to practice breastfeeding, i.e., low income women, WIC participants and those with the least education. Breastfeeding also increased between 1984 and 1995 among both African-Americans (from 33.3 to 37%), and Hispanics (from 53.8 to 61.0%), with little change in breastfeeding initiation among Caucasians (from 65.0 to 64.3%).

 

 

 

Quote:

 

  • The percentage of infants who were ever breastfed increased from 60% among infants who were born in 1993-1994 to 77% among infants who were born in 2005-2006.
  • Breastfeeding rates increased significantly among non-Hispanic black women from 36% in 1993-1994 to 65% in 2005-2006.
  • Breastfeeding rates in 1999-2006 were significantly higher among those with higher income (74%) compared with those who had lower income (57%).
  • Breastfeeding rates among mothers 30 years and older were significantly higher than those of younger mothers.
  • There was no significant change in the rate of breastfeeding at 6 months of age for infants born between 1993 and 2004.

 

 

Source: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db05.htm

 

Current information from the CDC, http://www.cdc.gov/breastfeeding/data/reportcard.htm

 

Quote:

Breastfeeding rates on the rise

Breastfeeding rates continue to rise, with increases of about 2 percentage points in breastfeeding initiation, and breastfeeding at 6 and 12 months. Breastfeeding initiation increased from 74.6% in 2008 to 76.9% in 2009 births. This improvement in initiation represents the largest annual increase over the previous decade. Breastfeeding at 6 months increased from 44.3% to 47.2%; breastfeeding at 12 months increased from 23.8% to 25.5%.

 

 

01-23-2013 05:37 AM
kathymuggle
Quote:
Originally Posted by celticopia View Post

I know the focus on this thread is non vax, and I am a reluctant vaxxer, who is still on the fence and would prefer not to vax if only I felt the risks and benefits were more clear, but very surprised even so to not see much mention of breastfeeding rates in decline.

 

 

Huh.  I have not heard  this.  A quick google search is not showing this.  May I ask for your source?  I agree with the rest of your post, though!

 

 

01-23-2013 05:12 AM
celticopia

I know the focus on this thread is non vax, and I am a reluctant vaxxer, who is still on the fence and would prefer not to vax if only I felt the risks and benefits were more clear, but very surprised even so to not see much mention of breastfeeding rates in decline.

 

It seems like its the same with us as it is with the bees.

 

The reason they are in massive decline is down to a multitude of reasons it was shown. Perhaps its not just a single factor with us either.

 

Combine, poorer food and lifestyle choices, increasing uses of processed additives in vaccines, and food, more pollutants in general, lower breastfeeding rates, and more resistant bacteria and viruses, due to time or over prescription of antibiotics etc. It's really no wonder at all that children are sicker than ever.

01-22-2013 07:47 AM
Mirzam
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlest birds View Post

I don't like to jump to conclusions, but I think vaxes may affect vulnerability to allergies.  Unfortunately these stats don't isolate anything from which to draw conclusions.  There are a lot of factors in play.  :( 

 

Something/things we are doing are causing widespread decline in health.  These are likely things affecting everyone somewhat equally.

 

Increased television/reduced outdoor activity is widespread enough, high sugar diets are fairly widespread, vaccination is widespread, and certain toxins are as well.  Food quality may be in massive decline ?  

 

Options include medical interventions that are across the board, anything affecting general food supply, chemicals if thoroughly distributed, and popular behavior patterns that contribute to health if they are widespread enough. Is there anything else on the list of possible causes?

I recommend the book, "Vaccination Social Violence and Criminality. The Medical Assault on the American Brain" by Harris Coulter, for some insight into this. The book is old, but the information presented is historical and extremely thought provoking.

01-21-2013 08:51 PM
littlest birds

I don't like to jump to conclusions, but I think vaxes may affect vulnerability to allergies.  Unfortunately these stats don't isolate anything from which to draw conclusions.  There are a lot of factors in play.  :( 

 

Something/things we are doing are causing widespread decline in health.  These are likely things affecting everyone somewhat equally.

 

Increased television/reduced outdoor activity is widespread enough, high sugar diets are fairly widespread, vaccination is widespread, and certain toxins are as well.  Food quality may be in massive decline ?  

 

Options include medical interventions that are across the board, anything affecting general food supply, chemicals if thoroughly distributed, and popular behavior patterns that contribute to health if they are widespread enough. Is there anything else on the list of possible causes?

01-20-2013 04:31 PM
kathymuggle

You're welcome.  smile.gif

01-20-2013 04:26 PM
myfairbabies

Awesome, thanks kathymuggle! That one includes a lot more people than the one I found. 

01-20-2013 01:40 PM
Chloebelle
Quote:
Originally Posted by sillymom44 View Post

For what it's worth, it think a the biggest problem is nutrition and lack of exercise.  I'm not saying vaccines aren't part of the problem, but I have little doubt processed foods and sitting indoors are the 2 biggest culprits.


It absolutely plays a big part, but not the biggest part IMO. Injecting neurotoxins into a brand new baby is the a huge assault on a developing immune system, and I think sets the stage for a child's health and development. Breastfeeding, diet, genetics and lifestyle also plays a role of course.

01-20-2013 08:39 AM
kathymuggle
Quote:
Originally Posted by myfairbabies View Post

 

 

If you have any data to suggest otherwise, I'd love to see it. That study from 2004 is the only one I've found that compares them. In the conclusion it states, "The Vaccines for Children Program, a partnership between public health and vaccination providers who serve uninsured children and those enrolled in Medicaid, is well suited to target and improve vaccination coverage among these vulnerable children." Maybe that's why there is the big push right now with all the "free shots" info. 

 

 

This study shows otherwise:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2653891/

 

"Children with public full-year coverage were significantly more likely to be UTD for two series of recommended vaccines, (4:3:1:3) and (4:3:1:3:3), compared with children with private full-year coverage. "

 
The whole study is available on the link if you are interested in such things.
 
ETA:  I am not surprised at all that publicly insured children are sicker than privately insured.  For the most part they are poorer - with less access to good food, decent housing,  recreational activities, health care choice…..  It is also worth noting that some on public insurance might be on public insurance because they cannot work, due to health reasons.  some of these reason may be genetic.  
01-20-2013 05:50 AM
serenbat
Quote:
 Kids with private insurance are much more likely to be fully vaccinated than kids with public insurance.

I can't say in real life this is true- not in those I know. I know the opposite.

I can personally tell you that first, it's NOT mandated in my state (until they soon will have to) but vac's are not covered by all plans, in addition when you have private that certainly does not mean FREE insurance vs having non-insurance. It's cost to step foot in the dr office (even well visits), most still have huge deductibles too! My Dr.'s office will not give you a vac unless there is proof your insurance will pay or you pay up front (not like most have that money!). I know people with private that do not run for every little thing vs those on any assistance that go at everything-big difference- there well visits don't cost a things. If you have three kids and have to pay $25.00 each just to step in the door plus meet a deductible and in our case pay out of pocket for a vac- it certainly makes a difference. My plan also does not cover adult vacs.

Quote:
I find the graph very interesting and I'm curious as to why the privately insured children are less likely to be affected by everything on that list but allergies. 

I can't give you facts, I can give you real life prospective- those children I know who are the "sickly" run to the dr as I just said for EVERYTHING and their diets just suck! If you don't have money for private insurance (even if it is given via an employer) chances are you don't have enough money for a healthy diet vs a family of more means. I feel the diet plays a very big role. Lower income also can mean the child is exposed to more polluters - in home smoking. 

01-19-2013 10:28 PM
myfairbabies
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

 

I don't understand your point (bolded).  I think most kids are up to date on their vaccines in the US - insurance doesn't seem to play a huge part in it.  

 

If you have any data to suggest otherwise, I'd love to see it. That study from 2004 is the only one I've found that compares them. In the conclusion it states, "The Vaccines for Children Program, a partnership between public health and vaccination providers who serve uninsured children and those enrolled in Medicaid, is well suited to target and improve vaccination coverage among these vulnerable children." Maybe that's why there is the big push right now with all the "free shots" info. 

 

FWIW, my dd has never had a single vaccine, I'm not saying vaccines don't have faults. I find the graph very interesting and I'm curious as to why the privately insured children are less likely to be affected by everything on that list but allergies. 

01-19-2013 06:54 PM
Einen

Another thought...perhaps, over the last few decades, the viruses and bacteria have gotten stronger through evolution.  Also, there is so much more travel these days, bugs come in before immunity is built.

01-19-2013 06:49 PM
sillymom44

For what it's worth, it think a the biggest problem is nutrition and lack of exercise.  I'm not saying vaccines aren't part of the problem, but I have little doubt processed foods and sitting indoors are the 2 biggest culprits.

01-19-2013 06:45 PM
emmy526

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by myfairbabies View Post
 

If vaccinating was the main cause, then wouldn't that graph be backwards? Kids with private insurance are much more likely to be fully vaccinated than kids with public insurance. I also believe that pollution, crap in our food, etc is a big part of the problem.

 

 

 

 

Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

 

I don't understand your point (bolded).  I think most kids are up to date on their vaccines in the US - insurance doesn't seem to play a huge part in it.  

here in ct, the dept of health is always annoucning how there are free shots available, and they tell you where to go

01-19-2013 05:46 PM
kathymuggle
Quote:
Originally Posted by myfairbabies View Post

If vaccinating was the main cause, then wouldn't that graph be backwards? Kids with private insurance are much more likely to be fully vaccinated than kids with public insurance. I also believe that pollution, crap in our food, etc is a big part of the problem.

 

I don't understand your point (bolded).  I think most kids are up to date on their vaccines in the US - insurance doesn't seem to play a huge part in it.  

01-19-2013 04:02 PM
myfairbabies

According to this, yes. It has to do with preschoolers that are up to date, so I guess there could be a disparity with totally unvaxxed and partially vaxxed kids. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15173467

01-19-2013 03:18 PM
Rynz

There are books on this topic. I have this one: "http://www.amazon.com/Compromised-Generation-Epidemic-Americas-Preventive/dp/1591810965" Has anyone here read it?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by myfairbabies View Post

If vaccinating was the main cause, then wouldn't that graph be backwards? Kids with private insurance are much more likely to be fully vaccinated than kids with public insurance. I also believe that pollution, crap in our food, etc is a big part of the problem.

 

I agree there are multiple factors, and I don't want to derail the conversation, but... really? It seems to me the pressures to vaccinate are much worse for people with public insurance (and poor people), in a few ways. For just one thing, being on Medicaid I've been stuck with a very pro-vax doctor who is pretty nasty about it every time we have to go. It's not like I can up and go to a naturopath or homeopath like I sooo wish I could. Of course to my knowledge there are no vax-friendly doctors in my area who take Medicaid. So the graph makes sense to me.

01-19-2013 02:34 PM
minerva23

Funny,  I was just talking about this with my sister a couple of days back.

 

Her kids (10 and 12) are sick so often that they miss out on school at least 3 times a month. Sometimes even more. It started even before they went to day care and Kindergarten. Scarlet fever, colds galore, ear-nose-throat infections, stomach bugs at least twice a year and so on. They both had surgery to get tubes in their ears due to recurring infections. The younger one had lots of polyps and enlarged tonsils that had to be reduced due to apnoea. Her 3 y/o cousin from her father's side just had the same surgery. But nobody else in the family had that. Needless to say they are all fully vaxxed.  Oh and not to forget about lice! yikes- never ever in my entire life did we have lice. Totally unheard of. Now there are epidemic-like outbreaks. Entire school classes have to be treated, usually after school vacations are over. I guess we do have more travel abroad now too.

 

On the otherhand, we as kids 30 and 40 years back, hardly ever missed out on school. My sis had mumps and measles and chickenpox as an adult. I myself only remember a broken collar bone in Kindergarten and chickenpox in 2nd grade. I don't remember having any stomach virus. A cold every once in a while but nothing big.

 

Now my kids have not been vaxxed and so far *knock on wood* we have been doing pretty good. DD1 has had 2 big colds and a nasty infection of noro virus that was going all around Germany (Chinese import, we figured that out later). I myself and DH where sick at the same times. DD2 only had noro virus at 5 month old. She vomited 5 times and her stool looked weird for 2 days that was about it.

01-19-2013 01:51 PM
Storm Bride

Vaxes...hard to say.

 

When I was a kid, a lot of kids had processed food in the house - more than we had (mostly canned soups, and Velveeta - mom made pretty much everything else from scratch). They didn't have as much as a lot of kids I see now...not even close.

 

When my mom was a kid, nobody had processsed food in the house, except maybe flour.

 

When my mom was a kid, there were very few cars on the road around here. When I was a kid, most local intersections were one-way stop signs, and that was more than adequate. Now, there are so many cars that traffic lights at many of those corners barely suffice. There are more people, more cars, more buildings, more "products" (toys, skin care, hair care, small applicances, etc. etc.) than there were when I was young, and a huge number of them are made of plastics, or other weird chemicals that were created in a lab.

 

Kids who would have died at birth or in infancy a hundred years ago are now surviving to adulthood and passing on their genes.

 

The world has changed a lot, and there's really no way to know, without collecting a lot more data, what's causing this upsurge in illness.

 

GTG...may add more thoughts later.

01-19-2013 01:41 PM
myfairbabies

If vaccinating was the main cause, then wouldn't that graph be backwards? Kids with private insurance are much more likely to be fully vaccinated than kids with public insurance. I also believe that pollution, crap in our food, etc is a big part of the problem.

01-19-2013 09:37 AM
Chloebelle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennyanydots View Post

All the same, I think it deserves mention that sometimes kids just do get sick, with or without vax.

I do agree with that. I have a friend who doesn't vax, and her kids are quite sickly. BUT the main reason she doesn't vax is because of her family history of autoimmune problems and food sensitivities. It's scary to imagine how much sicker these kids would be if they were injected with toxins as an infant...

01-18-2013 11:25 PM
philomom nm
01-18-2013 11:04 PM
Jennyanydots I'm totally with you that vax may be part of the problem. I'm wary of them for this exact reason and haven't (and have no plans to) vaxxed my LO. However, it seems that we live in a more contaminated world all around- air & water pollution, and pesticides, hormones, and gmo crap in our food. It's hard to imagine vaccines are the one and only culprit.
Fwiw, we do our best to live a clean, healthy life, DS is still bf at 19 months and has never been in daycare, but he does catch a fair number of bugs. He's had a handful of ear infections, two of which we've treated with abx. It's not vaccines, because he's never had them. It's not formula, because he's never had that, either. Was it the IV antibiotics I had during delivery (at home)? I have no idea. I think vaccines would likely make things harder on his developing immune system, so I don't really question our decision to abstain from them, for now at least... All the same, I think it deserves mention that sometimes kids just do get sick, with or without vax. I know the original topic was chronic illness, but the responses started to get into everyday stuff, and I just wanted to chime in.
01-10-2013 01:53 PM
serenbat
Quote:
Needless to say we really don't have much to talk about with friends these days who all have sick kids!

and you haven't had the conversation yet when they tell you that (by homeschooling) you are keeping your child in a bubble and not letting them get "sick"- the assumption being that only those who attend school get sick (for their own good too) and you don't get sick by living just in society whistling.gif

01-10-2013 12:14 PM
sassyfirechick
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmy526 View Post

Being sick is now considered to be the new 'healthy' as far as kids go....i have heard countless stories from parents all over the country, and their kids are sick with one thing after another, unexplained viruses, ear infections galore,  explosive diahrrea, fevers that come n go, and they all act like it's a normal childhood thing, and their drs are the ones who told them it was 'all normal toddler preschool illness'...i NEVER saw my toddlers sick like that, EVER.    

It's crazy that kids without allergies, especially food, are the minority nowadays.  I went to a small catholic school k-8 about 120 kids total - NO ONE had food allergies.  There were no restrictions on PB &J - it was served in the cafeteria!  DD is 14mos so I have not idea the restrictions in the schools she would potentially attend, but a friend in a neighboring town had a list on her fridge of foods her oldest was not allowed to bring and it included the following:  peanuts, almonds, eggs, chocolate, and wait for it - blueberries!  That's not the entire list, I can't remember the rest, but I remember it being about 20 items long!  Her kids are not without their issues either although food allergies are not among them, but she absolutely cringes at the way I raise my DD bc she's a nurse and doesn't feel it's normal that I don't let her have potato chips and processed chicken nuggets for dinner :-P  DD has already started off with fewer colds than either DH or myself had a kids (both 'fully vaxxed' in the 80's/90's) and even then, I know I wasn't a 'sickly' child - in our house you didn't stay home from school unless you had a fever over 101 and were actively yacking!  Needless to say we really don't have much to talk about with friends these days who all have sick kids!

01-09-2013 11:29 PM
ssun5

For starters I will start out with conversation just as food for thought...

 

We should be able to go back and at least look at the past 100 years and see how much all of these chronic conditions have grown!

My older sister was adopted and without to many details she was born normal but with neglect for 4 years, she didn't know one word and could barely talk when my parents were placed with her. (Sweet story as they never let her go even with all the hard work and the woman grew to be awesome and doing well, married and already raised 2 kids of her own in her 40's.)

ANYHOW, she had to attend all the special needs courses in school, and we were always involved in that world growing up. My mom, my sister and I have all discussed how we Never ever saw the kind of special needs going on in today's classrooms. We never met ONE autistic child. The nurse who had to administer a drug that my sister needed for a while in school said it was easy to remember as she had so few who ever needed to take anything. I mean, look at the amount of drugs administered in school today.....  WOW! what is going on?

 

Why charts from hundred years later than 1900 are we getting sicker and sicker? Not just in terms of "cold" but chronic health conditions that effect kids every day?

Why are their a zillion more kids with special needs (real and serious)

Why does it seem like half of an entire school is on drugs?

 

Women a hundred years ago usually married young, had multiply kids, late into menopause, were not as rich as many of us and yet still produced healthy kids?

 

Why do they say we always had these problems and just now noticed? Hun???So where are all of these people? There should surely be a few older people who have all these issues.

When you have to check with all your friends to serve Cake for heavens sake at a birthday party as so many of your friends kids have allergy's..... come on!

 

And we DO have charts that can show even a hundred years ago who had the big chronic problems like vision problems, and hearing, over weight, ear infections and asthma etc.

Why is it growing like crazy?

 

My mom has come to play groups that I take my kids too. She comments on how so much of the conversation is around the children's health. Not how to help Sally do better in school, but all the trials mom's are going through taking care of all these chronic issues each child has. It IS the new normal!

Mom finds it astonishing. She tells me how she has never heard of talk like this when we were raised or met so many kids with so many issues (even though she spent our growing up years with the special needs kids too!)

 

My very large co-opt group had to start a special needs department simply to deal with all the sudden new issues kids have. From autistim, Seizures, arthritis, asthma, allergy's gallore, other mental health issues..   The thing is, this co-opt has been around 40 plus years and has Never had to do this before. It was.not.common. Over the last 5 years it has exploded and now this year they finally had to address it and put someone in charge just to help everyone out and keep track of all the darn problems.....   sad to me.

 

Ok.... blahblah.gif over!!!

01-09-2013 02:02 PM
serenbat
Quote:

Just to add to the conversation and put some of these stats in context, here is an article citing a study out of  Harvard (2007)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a8jD2znv51pU

 

"June 26 (Bloomberg) -- The number of American children with chronic illnesses has quadrupled since the time when some of their parents were kids, portending more disability and higher health costs for a new generation of adults, a study estimates.

An almost fourfold increase in childhood obesity in the past three decades, twice the asthma rates since the 1980s, and a jump in the number of attention-deficit disorder cases are driving the growth of chronic illnesses, according to researchers at Harvard University in Boston. The report is published in a themed issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association focusing on children's health."

 

my DH and I were just talking about this and this thread!

 

I can clearly see from my high school year book (and my mom's at the same school) - I had NO one that was morbidly obese-none! This was a well off, middle class community with access to food- I spent the better part of 13 years with all of them (120+) in my class and we only had two that were over weight (thin by todays standards) and I had only 1 teacher (and ever today she would not be morbidly obese!) - I feel this factors in greatly.

My DS (soon to be 5) is an exact size 5 by 1960-1980's clothing US - size 5 pants now fall right off him.

 

We were just talking about how we knew between both of us- one person with "hay fever", one with asthma and many many that had perfect attendance for years when we were in school.

We were also talking about going out to a real restaurant for our DS's bday- we have none! We have "troughs" (AKA - buffets) - we in the US just eat and don't seem to know when to stop-IMO

01-09-2013 01:28 PM
kathymuggle

Just to add to the conversation and put some of these stats in context, here is an article citing a study out of  Harvard (2007)

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a8jD2znv51pU

 

"June 26 (Bloomberg) -- The number of American children with chronic illnesses has quadrupled since the time when some of their parents were kids, portending more disability and higher health costs for a new generation of adults, a study estimates.

An almost fourfold increase in childhood obesity in the past three decades, twice the asthma rates since the 1980s, and a jump in the number of attention-deficit disorder cases are driving the growth of chronic illnesses, according to researchers at Harvard University in Boston. The report is published in a themed issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association focusing on children's health."

 

01-09-2013 09:41 AM
Chloebelle
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmy526 View Post

Being sick is now considered to be the new 'healthy' as far as kids go....i have heard countless stories from parents all over the country, and their kids are sick with one thing after another, unexplained viruses, ear infections galore,  explosive diahrrea, fevers that come n go, and they all act like it's a normal childhood thing, and their drs are the ones who told them it was 'all normal toddler preschool illness'...i NEVER saw my toddlers sick like that, EVER.    

 

I agree.  Even allergies and asthma are regarded as "normal" by the mothers I spend time with. Just imagine how sickly people will be after a few more generations of all these shots. Scary.

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