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  Topic Review (Newest First)
02-09-2013 08:20 AM
cynthia mosher

Thanks LitMom. love.gif

02-08-2013 11:07 AM
LitMom Awesome! That's great, Cynthia! I appreciate all the work you and the mods do even though I rarely post here.
02-06-2013 11:40 AM
cynthia mosher

I reviewed the thread and there are no posts removed. I'm not sure what you are referring to TCMoulton.

 

The reason I want all the posts to remain, even though some may technically violate the rules of the forum, is because this thread is discussing a forum and posting behavior, not a vaccinations topic. So it is a community topic. This forum is not really the place to post such a question (should be in the Questions and Suggestions forum). But since it is here and probably will get more attention here, I left it for the conversation to be had and so my clarification about what is acceptable here in Mindful Vax could be read and understood by everyone reading and posting. But the other members  devoted to the other support forum should really have their discussion about what they want in their forum, which is why I requested they ten step out and take it over there.

02-06-2013 11:33 AM
cynthia mosher

I think it was because I started to work my way through the thread and then stopped to post because I pretty much new what I needed to say. And I guess I stopped returning posts that were removed by the mods at that point. I will go back through and replace them all now. 

02-06-2013 10:21 AM
TCMoulton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynthia Mosher View Post

In this thread, Rrrrachel? If that's what you mean I'd prefer to leave them so our full discussion is visible for everyone to read. If you're referring to posts in other threads you can report them and I'll take a look.

I'm confused - why were some posts removed yet others are being allowed to stay. If they violate the rules of the forum then they should either be edited to comply or removed.
02-06-2013 09:12 AM
cynthia mosher

In this thread, Rrrrachel? If that's what you mean I'd prefer to leave them so our full discussion is visible for everyone to read. If you're referring to posts in other threads you can report them and I'll take a look.

02-06-2013 06:18 AM
Rrrrrachel There still seem to be some argumentative posts that need to be edited or removed.
02-05-2013 10:23 PM
prosciencemum

Seems clear to me. :) 

02-05-2013 08:14 PM
cynthia mosher

Okay. So we're all clear about the rules now? No other issues to resolve that are in my hands to do? shy.gif

02-04-2013 09:43 AM
cynthia mosher

Thank you all for your posts about your concerns and frustrations and stating where you feel we need to be more clear about what is accepted and what isn't. 

 

I think our guidelines are pretty clear about what is expected for this forum and for the INV forum:

 

 

Mindful Vaccination -  This is a support-only forum for those who are vaccinating selectively, on a delayed schedule or fully vaccinating on schedule. Members who aren't vaccinating should not post here to debate or argue accuracy or opinion of things posted. 

 

I'm Not Vaccinating - This is a support-only forum for those not or those seriously considering not vaccinating. Here we host discussion of issues that arise when choosing to not vaccinate and sharing of resources and information that are related to the no-vax decision. Members who are vaccinating should not post here to debate or argue accuracy or opinion of things posted. 

 

Is anything unclear about this? Or is it our moderation that is the issue? Granted, our moderators are stretched and Adina and I cannot constantly monitor these forums. So we do expect members to hold up their side of the responsibility and respect this very simple but to-the-point and clear rule. Our only option is to completely exclude members one by one who fail to do so. If that's what has to happen, I'm willing to do that. 

 

Taximom, I look at your post and I can see what you are feeling. But the fact remains that this is not a forum for you to argue accuracy or opinions of things posted just as the I'm Not Vaccinating forum is not a place for prosciencemom to post her arguments against things you or others in that forum state. All such discussions between parties of the two support forums should take place in the Vaccinations Discussions and Debate forums. 

 

I explained this to kathymuggle in her post here: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1371951/can-we-define-what-support-forum-means-s-o-from-vaccine-forum/0_100

 

I am still reading all of the posts to this thread but this is the gist of what I have to say at this point. We will try to moderate more closely and remove people who refuse to abide by these guidelines. If you have any other suggestions please let me know. 

 

Now, all members who are not vaccinating should step out of this forum and allow the members who are vaccinating selectively, delayed or on schedule to have this discussion amongst themselves.

 

If there are similar issues concerning the I'm Not Vaccinating forum please start a thread to raise and discuss those issues and I will join in over there to sort it out with you.

 

Thanks. smile.gif

02-03-2013 12:20 PM
Rrrrrachel And I'm also not sure how many people around here actually believe every child should be vaccinated on schedule without exception. I certainly don't.
02-03-2013 12:18 PM
Rrrrrachel Obviously this forum should included selected and delayed. I don't think there's a,problem with them feeling welcome, considering the majority of the posts are about selective and delayed vaccination.
02-03-2013 12:13 PM
kathymuggle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

Kathy you are not really the problem. You generally do post helpful information in a non argumentative way in this forum.
 

Thanks, Rachel.

 

I can personalise things and I have to remember it is not all about me.  I do not think the polarisation of this issue into camps (or almost cliques, really)  is helpful in this regard.  

 

I edited the last post, as I don't think it was constructive.

 

Back to your regularly scheduled program.  

02-03-2013 12:13 PM
Rrrrrachel I've tried that too smile.gif
02-03-2013 12:10 PM
glassesgirlnj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post


She is on my block member list. I'm usually much better at ignoring her.

 

So, who are some people here you *would* like to have a discussion with?  :)  And about what? 

Go ahead and start it! 

02-03-2013 12:08 PM
Rrrrrachel
Quote:
Originally Posted by glassesgirlnj View Post

I wonder how the person under discussion would react if everyone simply added her to their "Block Member" list... or behaved as if they did. 
How long is someone going to continue talking if they get the complete silent treatment from everyone else on the board?  

She is on my block member list. I'm usually much better at ignoring her.
02-03-2013 12:08 PM
Rrrrrachel Kathy you are not really the problem. You generally do post helpful information in a non argumentative way in this forum.

I don't think tc was trying to imply people shouldn't post here to ask those questions, just responding to the assertion that this is a place where people who do are attacked. It's pretty easy to debunk that one just by looking at the recent threads in the forum.
02-03-2013 12:07 PM
glassesgirlnj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

You can't stand that discussions are going on and you're not involved. 

 

I wonder how the person under discussion would react if everyone simply added her to their "Block Member" list... or behaved as if they did. 

How long is someone going to continue talking if they get the complete silent treatment from everyone else on the board?  

02-03-2013 12:05 PM
kathymuggle
nm - argumentative.  See, I can (sometimes) tell when I am rising to bait/being arguementative and back off (joke).
 
I still think this is a good question:
 

"To me the question (and it is not mine to answer) is do you want a forum that is "every child on time" or a forum that is tolerant to both those who vaccinate on time, and those who are sel/delayed?  If it should include sel/delayed - then how do you create a welcoming environment?"

 

 

 

02-03-2013 12:01 PM
Rrrrrachel Never mind.
02-03-2013 11:59 AM
Rrrrrachel Taxi are you AGAIN insinuating that some posters aren't actual mothers?
02-03-2013 11:18 AM
TCMoulton It looks like the only that fights are started here is when those who have chosen to never vax again come to stir up trouble in certain threads.
I have seen quite a few posts where moms were encouraged to wait until their mind was made up, space vaccines apart, take a more delayed schedule, and refuse certain vaccinations when it is appropriate to the situation.
The post about celebrating has been taken totally out of context. I was under the impression that we were discussing how moms would maybe give their child a treat (my mom always stopped for ice cream) after a child endured an unpleasant experience, in a sense celebrating their bravery. Certainly not celebrating how much better we must be as moms because our kids have another vaccines under their belt (which has been suggested here).
If this same thread was started in I'm Not Vaxing it would have cut short pretty quickly, not sure why this is even still going on to be honest.
02-03-2013 10:45 AM
Taximom5
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

I think this would end all of it!

 

simple, to the point and only one topic, easy to stick to, know what you are getting and only for this need-win win all around-IMO yummy.gif

 

 

I would like to see this- please, PLEASE!!

This.

 

Serenbat has really nailed it.  The "Mindful Vax" forum has become a forum for supporting all vaxes, all children, all the time.  Let's at least be honest about it.

 

A forum truly dedicated to the needs of those who selectively vaccinate, or delay vaccinations, or more often, who are weighing the options, would have room for discussion of both complications from disease, and complications from vaccination.  As soon as you kick out parents who DID vaccinate, only to observe severe reactions, you are limiting the forum to only those vaxxers who have never experienced problems.  That's ridiculous.   What's the point?  To cheer each other on?  To spread lies (like, "vaccines cause no problems 99.9999% of the time!")?  To mock and ridicule those who have vaccine reactions (The "My kid just had a shot!" celebration thread)?

 

What does "support" mean here?  What kind of "support" do people come here for?  Do people who conform to the recommended vaccine schedule need SUPPORT, when those who don't conform themselves are being fired from jobs, and if their children's vaccines are delayed, they are threatened with having their children barred from school or daycare, or even with having their children taken away?

 

The Vaccination Discussion and Debate has become something of a war zone.  Post that your children suffered vaccine reactions, and you will be attacked by the official MDC vaccination committee, who will tell you that you imagined it, or that the reaction wasn't as serious/common/linked with the vaccines as you believe.  Post a mainstream scientific study that supports your belief, and the MDC vaccination committee will do their best to tear it, and the researchers who wrote it, to shreds. Post anything non-mainstream, and prepare to be mocked for posting anything not peer-reviewed by mainstream science. Post links to the fact that courts in both the US and Italy admitted and compensated children for vaccine-induced autism, and the MDC vaccination committee will insist that courts of law have nothing to do with science.

 

In short, there's no point posting anything on the Discussion and Debate forum, unless you have oodles of time to fight, and the energy to fight people who insist that your own experiences are invalid.

 

How many mothers of preschool children have the time to look up and post studies and arguments several times a day?  Especially those who work outside the home?  Heck, my kids are all in school, and I don't have time to research and post more than a couple of things.

02-03-2013 09:32 AM
Rrrrrachel I think trying to convert someone period is inappropriate on a support only forum. That's kind of 101.
02-03-2013 08:45 AM
serenbat
Quote:
 do you want a forum that is "every child on time"

I think this would end all of it!

 

simple, to the point and only one topic, easy to stick to, know what you are getting and only for this need-win win all around-IMO yummy.gif

 

 

I would like to see this- please, PLEASE!!

02-03-2013 08:37 AM
SweetSilver
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

 

  Is trying to convert someone in this subforum to "on time" or "sel/delayed" acceptable - or should respect for their current beliefs be upheld? If it should include sel/delayed - then how do you create a welcoming environment?

 

Since I am an unschooler who frequents the Learning At Home forum, I do pay attention to questions about academics for the preschool set and curriculums, neither of which I approve of as a general concept.  Often I choose not to post, but now and then, depending on how the question was worded I might offer my perspective, especially if I feel like the OP might not have considered a different line of thinking.  I present, then bow out unless the OP shows particular enthusiasm for hearing my experiences and thoughts.  And, just in case, I often state my biases clearly and make a point to classify them as such, not as the God-given truth..

 

Phrases like "this study suggests...." can be helpful.  If a poster is unsure, simply stating that fact can help smooth what might be perceived as an argumentative tone.  Or....asking!  And if there is resistance to an idea, back off, assuming that they don't want further information in that line.

02-03-2013 08:24 AM
SweetSilver
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post


To people who want all viewpoints on this board - can I ask how you imagine it being different from the main vaccination discussion board? Just curious for what circumstances people would post here looking for many viewpoints on a vaccination question rather than there. smile.gif

I can listen to the viewpoints--even alternate viewpoints--in a support forum.  I know it can be something of a fine line between that and debate, but I do appreciate the difference between informing someone of a different line of thinking and the intention of convincing them.

02-03-2013 07:17 AM
kathymuggle
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post


To people who want all viewpoints on this board - can I ask how you imagine it being different from the main vaccination discussion board? Just curious for what circumstances people would post here looking for many viewpoints on a vaccination question rather than there. smile.gif

I don't think they want all viewpoints.  

 

 

Posters need to conform to the guidelines, but all people who can conform in their post to the guidelines should be able to play.  All people are welcome, but not all viewpoints.  I am not only my viewpoint - I can answer a basic question on the vaccine schedule without giving my viewpoint.  If you feel someone has stepped over a line, flag it. 

 

 

I feel for the sel/del posters among us - it should not come down to "rah-rah vaccines - yeah!" or non-vax for all people.  Maybe posters have felt they need to come across as "rah-rah" to counterbalance the other sides message?  Maybe it is because this is a deliberate choice to try and make those who realIy do give all vaccinate on time feel comfortable? I just do not know.  I do know several sel/delayed have said they do not feel comfortable here and that could be an issue for them in getting the support they need in figuring out the best vaccine choice for their family. 

 

As per the bolded - the tone on discussion and debate can get nasty.  Some people do not want to wade through it - hence they do not post in discussion and debate.  With the exception of some newbies who really do get lost, most people know that if they choose a subforum over the debate forum, they know the discussion may be more limited, and they accept it so they do not have to wade through nastiness.

 

To me the question (and it is not mine to answer) is do you want a forum that is "every child on time" or a forum that is tolerant to both those who vaccinate on time, and those who are sel/delayed?  Is trying to convert someone in this subforum to "on time" or "sel/delayed" acceptable - or should respect for their current beliefs be upheld? If it should include sel/delayed - then how do you create a welcoming environment?

 

I am going to bow out of this conversation for now, as I think I have said everything I wanted to say.   I will sub though, as it is interesting peace.gif

02-03-2013 07:10 AM
TCMoulton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

There is a strong push from a few posters here to censor parents from sharing their own experiences with vaccines. I find this absolutely chilling.

On what grounds does MDC think it's acceptable to prevent parents from reading, " hey, be careful with this product that _______ is recommending, because it harmed my child?"

If, as prosciencemum has stated, vaccines are safe for 99.9999%, then why so much effort to prevent anyone whose child has reacted from saying so? Why would MDC create a forum where reactions are not permitted to be mentioned, and independent (non-industry-funded/directed/interpreted/marketed) science questioning vaccine safety/efficacy is not permitted to be mentioned? Isn't that like creating a forum for smoker support in a community where more and more people are suffering from tobacco-induced illness?

And don't dare to mention that there is any similarity to past historical events where censorship and government-encouraged divisiveness occurred. You can't even do that on the "I'm Not Vaccinating" forum without being threatened with banning.

There's something very wrong with this whole picture.

Ok Taxi, if this is what you want for the Mindful Vaccination forum would you have a problem with moms posting about complications their kids had when they contracted VPD's in the I'm not Vaxing forum? What about hospital birthing moms posting concerns in the UC forum?

Since there is ample opportunity in the Vaccine Discussion and Debate and Researching the Decision to ask questions about adverse reactions and other issues I see nothing wrong with a support only forum where moms who choose to vaccinate in one capacity or another can have to ask questions and share experiences with those who share the same opinions on vaccinating.
02-03-2013 06:23 AM
glassesgirlnj
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post


There is a strong push from a few posters here to censor parents from sharing their own experiences with vaccines. I find this absolutely chilling.
You know that the word "censorship" does not apply to a privately-owned website not run by the government, right? (Sorry, just needed to pull out some journ school geekery for a second...)
 
On what grounds does MDC think it's acceptable to prevent parents from reading, " hey, be careful with this product that _______ is recommending, because it harmed my child?"
I'm not sure they do think that's acceptable.  Parents can read lots of those types of posts in I'm Not Vaccinating; Vaccine Discussion & Debate; Vaccination Research for Beginners, et al, et al. Or, if you're a member of a particular due date club, you can post that info there... Or, members and non-members alike can find those posts on Google.  (MDC actually has GREAT SEO, and a lot of the posters here first came across the site when Googling a parenting-related topic. That's true for me, at least.) 
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