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  Topic Review (Newest First)
05-10-2013 07:38 PM
pers
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyLilPwny View Post

 Since most of the diseases for which there are vaccines, were already significantly declining before the vaccines for them were ever invented, there is no way to prove that vaccines actually “immunize”.

 

 

 

Diseases such as typhoid, cholera, and dysentery that were spread by drinking contaminated water significantly declined with the spread of proper sewage treatment and the increased availability of clean drinking water.  We don't vaccinate for these diseases.  Yellow fever, which is spread by mosquitoes of a certain type, was wiped out from North America by going after the kinds of mosquitoes that could transmit it and nearly wiping them out.  They still vaccinate for it in countries that still have it, and I got the vaccine before travelling to Peru many years ago, but generally we don't vaccinate for it here since it isn't a problem. 

 

Measles and the other diseases we do vaccinate are spread not by contaminated water or insect but directly from person to person.  There is only so much handwashing (which most kids aren't that good about) and wiping down school desks can do to prevent their spread.   These diseases did have large declines in mortality prior to vaccination as improved food availability, better living conditions, and better medical care/access to medical care.  However, they did not decline in incidence.  When my mother was born, not that long before vaccination, measles was still something that practically every child got during childhood - she and all her friends certainly had them.  A generation later when I was a child, I didn't know anyone growing up who got them.  That was due to vaccination.  

 

Every kid I grew up with did get chicken pox at some point without their parents having to search out a party or have already-licked lolipops sent across the country.  Now, while chickenpox is still around, it isn't nearly as common and many kids are reachign their teens or adulthood withotu getting it.  Why is that if not due to vaccination? 

 

 

Quote:

There is a lot of evidence showing that vaccines do not “immunize” at all, with people still developing the disease for which they were vaccinated. Also, people that were never vaccinated prove to be resisting disease. Before vaccines ever existed, people were resisting disease. Jenner’s theory was that milk maids resisted smallpox. Milk maids were never vaccinated & they probably regularly drank raw milk which is full of immune-boosting natural probiotics. When you boost the immune system, that helps fight off disease.

 

Vaccines aren't perfect.  Some people are still vulnerable to the disease even after vaccination - how many depends on which vaccine as some are more effective as others.  But if you are going to say that these vaccine failures are proof that vaccines don't immunize then you might as well say that neither does getting chickenpox since some people get it multiple times. 

 

There is plenty of evidence showing that while some people still get diseases they have been immunized for, kids who have the vaccine are much less likely to get the diseases than kids who are not vaccinated. 

 

All milk was raw milk in the time of Jenner.  What evidence is there to suggest that milk maids drank significantly more milk than other members of their community?  What evidence is there to suggest that raw milk provides any protection at all against smallpox?  Why would raw milk protect the milkmaids from smallpox but not from the closely related (but much, much less serious) disease cowpox?  

 

Jenner's vaccine was not quite the same as the modern carefully developed and controlled vaccines of today which use deliberately weakened or killed germs.  He basically noticed that people who had already had cowpox didn't get smallpox, so he went around deliberately infecting them with cowpox.  There certainly were problems with this as it wasn't a controlled dose and some people may not actually have gotten any cowpox at all while the methods used/lack of sanitation allowed the vaccination process to spread other diseases, but still,  it mostly seemed to work. 

05-09-2013 01:16 PM
MyLilPwny

I would like to further add why there are ZERO risks for not vaccinating.

 

Injecting bacteria/viruses/100+ chemicals via man-made cocktail vaccines in order to “stimulate” the immune system to produce antibodies will not protect you from the real naturally occurring disease in nature. Vaccines do not improve health & do not improve the immune system, nor do vaccines “immunize” as they claim to do. Vaccination is not immunization.

 

Yes, vaccines “stimulate” the immune system, but the immune system does not want to be stimulated with a “germ-toxin fest”. The body also does not want its digestive system, skin and other protective defenses systems all to be by-passed so that a man-made germ-fest chemical cocktail (vaccine) is inserted directly inside the bloodstream/muscles without being filtered through its protective defense systems. The germ-toxin fest (vaccine) is allowed to freely roam throughout the body & allowed to land wherever it pleases, with the likely potential to cause cancer and auto-immune diseases.

 

Humans did not evolve from the beginning of human existence by injecting germs & toxins into their bloodstream/muscles. Vaccines are brand new to human evolution, and there is definitely an unproven theory behind vaccines. Since most of the diseases for which there are vaccines, were already significantly declining before the vaccines for them were ever invented, there is no way to prove that vaccines actually “immunize”.

 

There is a lot of evidence showing that vaccines do not “immunize” at all, with people still developing the disease for which they were vaccinated. Also, people that were never vaccinated prove to be resisting disease. Before vaccines ever existed, people were resisting disease. Jenner’s theory was that milk maids resisted smallpox. Milk maids were never vaccinated & they probably regularly drank raw milk which is full of immune-boosting natural probiotics. When you boost the immune system, that helps fight off disease.

 

The immune system only wants to be “boosted” and “built” with nourishment and other things that are healthy for the body (such as proper sleep patterns, minimal stress, exercise, etc.) and that is what improves health, improves resistance to disease, and builds immunity to disease.

05-08-2013 05:00 AM
kathymuggle
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHinJersey View Post

 

So what? Thimerosol is harmless.

thlmerosal is 49% ethyl mercury by weight.  It is a neurotoxin.  Here is a review on it by the IOM - I do not find it reassuring.

 

http://www.iom.edu/~/media/Files/Activity%20Files/PublicHealth/ImmunizationSafety/Lucier.pdf

05-08-2013 04:11 AM
DHinJersey
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyLilPwny View Post

Jenner came up with a fantasy theory that milk maids were resistant to smallpox because they were exposed to cowpox through nature in their environment. Cowpox and smallpox are 2 different separate diseases.

Note that the milk maids were not piercing their own skin to vaccinate themselves with cow pus (the vaccines were made out of cow pus). Also note that raw milk is a super food (immune boosting with natural probiotics) and these milk maids had easy access to this immune boosting superfood. Maybe raw milk is a significant reason why milk maids had strong immune systems thus resisted disease. We know the milk maids didn't vaccinate.

Also note that the results of smallpox deaths after the vaccination was introduced is well documented in England where the deaths grow more and more every year as stricter compulsory vaccine laws are reinforced year after year; in Prussia where they had the most strict vaccine laws, also death grew more and more; and also the Phillipines-- very simillar story. The vaccine never worked.

That brings us back to the topic of the germ not being the cause of disease since some people's immune systems are able to fight off disease. Keep in mind that Jenner's whole theory was based on milk maids who most likely regularly drank an immune boosting superfood and these milk maids never ever vaccinated themselves.

 

So, that whole smallpox eradication thing? Not convincing to you? I suppose you'll say it was sanitation.

05-08-2013 03:42 AM
DHinJersey
Quote:
Originally Posted by emmy526 View Post

not all have thimerosol removed

 

So what? Thimerosol is harmless.

05-08-2013 03:33 AM
emmy526

VACCINATION – A MEDICAL ABOMINATION

05-08-2013 03:32 AM
emmy526

double post

05-08-2013 03:22 AM
emmy526
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinahx View Post

I actually believe it is profoundly dehumanizing in the literal sense to refer to HUMANS as being part of a 'HERD' anyway. I am part of a community in which I have the freedom to make my good faith contribution and I pray that our Creator continues to protect that FREEDOM, rather than allowing a Corporation or Government to choose my contribution.

I am of the mind that a percentage of parents always need to opt out of Vaxes to establish a default control group. Otherwise, as the schedule expands exponentially, we will have no reference point for what a child without say, bimonthly injections of Aluminum is like. No control group, no placebo, no science.

Finally, most improvements in Vax Safety have been the result of Parent Advocacy, so Vaxing parents have Vax Safety parents to thank for IPV & DTaP & Thimerisol free Childhood shots!

not all have thimerosol removed

05-07-2013 10:25 PM
MyLilPwny Jenner came up with a fantasy theory that milk maids were resistant to smallpox because they were exposed to cowpox through nature in their environment. Cowpox and smallpox are 2 different separate diseases.

Note that the milk maids were not piercing their own skin to vaccinate themselves with cow pus (the vaccines were made out of cow pus). Also note that raw milk is a super food (immune boosting with natural probiotics) and these milk maids had easy access to this immune boosting superfood. Maybe raw milk is a significant reason why milk maids had strong immune systems thus resisted disease. We know the milk maids didn't vaccinate.

Also note that the results of smallpox deaths after the vaccination was introduced is well documented in England where the deaths grow more and more every year as stricter compulsory vaccine laws are reinforced year after year; in Prussia where they had the most strict vaccine laws, also death grew more and more; and also the Phillipines-- very simillar story. The vaccine never worked.

That brings us back to the topic of the germ not being the cause of disease since some people's immune systems are able to fight off disease. Keep in mind that Jenner's whole theory was based on milk maids who most likely regularly drank an immune boosting superfood and these milk maids never ever vaccinated themselves.
05-06-2013 09:25 PM
dinahx Triple.
05-06-2013 09:25 PM
dinahx Double.
05-06-2013 09:24 PM
dinahx I actually believe it is profoundly dehumanizing in the literal sense to refer to HUMANS as being part of a 'HERD' anyway. I am part of a community in which I have the freedom to make my good faith contribution and I pray that our Creator continues to protect that FREEDOM, rather than allowing a Corporation or Government to choose my contribution.

I am of the mind that a percentage of parents always need to opt out of Vaxes to establish a default control group. Otherwise, as the schedule expands exponentially, we will have no reference point for what a child without say, bimonthly injections of Aluminum is like. No control group, no placebo, no science.

Finally, most improvements in Vax Safety have been the result of Parent Advocacy, so Vaxing parents have Vax Safety parents to thank for IPV & DTaP & Thimerisol free Childhood shots!
05-06-2013 09:18 PM
dinahx Over diagnosis & Overtreatment of Breast & Prostate Cancers is a growing phenomenon.

You know what tho: Absolutely no one said that every disease we get is brought on by ourselves. What *I* said was that the 'immunity of the Herd' is influenced by a thousand more factors than Vax choices. Some couldn't accept that & instead made up an argument I didn't advance & then argued with their made up argument.

I certainly don't believe in Victim Blaming. I believe in holding Corporations accountable for the illness they cause through pollution, engineered frankenfood, tobacco promotion, etc.
05-06-2013 08:10 PM
pek64
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

The problem with taking the view Mother Nature knows what she's doing is that Mother Nature does not care about the survival of an individual, only of a species (if that even to be honest).

And also their are just random bad things which happen.

Are you seriously suggesting if people we more relaxed, ate better and avoided medicine they wouldn't die of cancer? Your friend aside, the statistics will show that people who are treated for cancer survive more often than those who don't get treated.

The statistics of cancer patients is off topic. We would need information about those statistics before that point can be argued intelligently.
05-06-2013 07:21 PM
erigeron
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

 

But according to Katie and WildKingdom, shit happens.  There is never any kind of underlying cause, group of causes, or even triggers.  It just happens.  They would like you to accept it. If you happen to find out that there actually are causes and triggers, don't tell them; they don't want to know about it, particularly if those causes have anything to do with what they or their child has been eating, drinking, or been injected with.  Because "shit happens." 

It's more that SOMETIMES shit happens. You can do everything "right" and still get nailed out of the sky by some bizarre disease. Sure, lots of things do have causes, but sometimes someone gets sick for a reason that really isn't discernible, and the rhetoric that every disease we get is something we brought on ourselves is not very respectful of people in this situation. 

05-06-2013 10:30 AM
Turquesa
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

Perhaps something we can all agree on - neither side is as black and white in their thinking as the "other side" seems to think.

Could we throw in there's not really sides, more a continuum of opinions too?

Back to the OP - why we're here debating it?

I'm OK with not generalizing about entire groups, but it's important for the advancement of these discussions to call out individual black-and-white arguments where we see them. Here are some examples of b & w arguments, perceptions, implications, and issue-framing that I've encountered OVER THE YEARS (read: I'm not providing links; you'll have to take my word for it) at least once in these forums:

1. "There are ZERO risks for not vaccinating."
2. Either diseases happens because shit happens OR it's completely a matter of personal choices.
3. Either you're pro-vax OR you're anti-vax.
4. Either you're pro-science and pro-vax OR you're anti-science and anti-vax.
5. Either vaccines are good and wonderful and perfect OR they're vile toxins.
6. Either you vax with everything and "on-schedule" OR you're "anti-vax."
7. "Vaccines are a black and white issue."
8. Either "natural" is good OR "natural" is bad.
9. Either you trust or doctor and obey OR you believe that all doctors are evil.
10.This study confirms my bias, so I'm going to defend it fully even though I haven't read anything beyond the abstract or a press release about it.

It's almost sad how quickly I came up with all of those . . .
05-06-2013 09:35 AM
Taximom5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

 

 

As WildKingdom says, it seems there is a real resistance here to the idea that sometimes, shit just happens.

Funny you should say this.

 

That's the typical response from the medical community to an awful lot of health problems that might actually have an identifiable cause: "shit happens."

 

You get intestinal symptoms and rashes after eating wheat?  No, it couldn't possibly be the gluten!  It's "IBS," aka "Inflammatory Bowel Syndrome," which has all the same symptoms of celiac disease, but um, we don't bother to test for celiac disease because it's vanishingly rare, you couldn't have that.  You know, shit happens. Here, eat all the gluten you want; just take these medicines for the rest of your life.  

 

You have dizziness, fluctuating hearing loss, tingling fingers and toes?  No, we won't test for B12 deficiency.  Nobody has that. You must have "Meniere's Disease," which isn't a disease at all, it's a syndrome, a collection of symptoms of unknown origin. And those symptoms include dizziness and fluctuating hearing loss. We'll give you steroids, and a truckload of other meds, including cortisone shots to the ear, which might result in permanent hearing loss. This is a lifelong condition (if you don't find and address the underlying cause), but, you know, shit happens.

 

Your child had a seizure reaction to a vaccine?  Nah, vaccines don't do that.  Oh, wait, all your kids have had varying severe reactions to vaccines?  And we can't tell which vaccines, becuase they were given so many at a time?  Oh, and you've had reactions yourself?  You were probably just imagining that it happened within a few hours of being given vaccines.  Oh, you called our office each and every time there was a reaction, within a few hours of the vaccinations, and we told you not to worry?  Oh well, shit happens.

 

You are tired all the time, your hair is falling out, you're constipated, you're cold all the time, you have no appetite, but you keep gaining weight?  No, we wouldn't THINK of testing your thyroid function!  You're at "that age" (I was still in my 20's) where you have to watch what you eat, you know?  What? You say you are following a rigid diet?  No, you must be lying.  It's not possible to gain weight on  a rigid diet.  You must be lying. Women are always looking for excuses for being fat, but you know what? Shit happens!

 

But according to Katie and WildKingdom, shit happens.  There is never any kind of underlying cause, group of causes, or even triggers.  It just happens.  They would like you to accept it. If you happen to find out that there actually are causes and triggers, don't tell them; they don't want to know about it, particularly if those causes have anything to do with what they or their child has been eating, drinking, or been injected with.  Because "shit happens." 

05-06-2013 09:03 AM
prosciencemum
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

No, I am saying nothing of the sort. That is purely your chosen interpretation of my post. The object of your post seems to be to derail the thread, and I am not taking the bait. Waste of my time.

I interpret your post wrong, and you interpret mine wrong. About par for the course on the vaccine boards I think.
05-06-2013 08:56 AM
Mirzam
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

The problem with taking the view Mother Nature knows what she's doing is that Mother Nature does not care about the survival of an individual, only of a species (if that even to be honest).

And also their are just random bad things which happen.

Are you seriously suggesting if people we more relaxed, ate better and avoided medicine they wouldn't die of cancer? Your friend aside, the statistics will show that people who are treated for cancer survive more often than those who don't get treated.

 

No, I am saying nothing of the sort. That is purely your chosen interpretation of my post. The object of your post seems to be to derail the thread, and I am not taking the bait. Waste of my time.

05-06-2013 08:56 AM
prosciencemum Of course different cancers have different survival rates. Doesn't invalidate my statement.
05-06-2013 08:21 AM
serenbat
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post
Are you seriously suggesting if people we more relaxed, ate better and avoided medicine they wouldn't die of cancer? Your friend aside, the statistics will show that people who are treated for cancer survive more often than those who don't get treated.

are you serious as well? survival of cancer depends on type and what you simple mean by survival, to some DR and medical community that can mean as little as 5 years - it simply is not a blanket statement that holds true for all types of cancers - prostate cancer is a prime example of non-treatment vs treatment

05-06-2013 08:04 AM
prosciencemum The problem with taking the view Mother Nature knows what she's doing is that Mother Nature does not care about the survival of an individual, only of a species (if that even to be honest).

And also their are just random bad things which happen.

Are you seriously suggesting if people we more relaxed, ate better and avoided medicine they wouldn't die of cancer? Your friend aside, the statistics will show that people who are treated for cancer survive more often than those who don't get treated.
05-06-2013 07:20 AM
Mirzam
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

 

 

As WildKingdom says, it seems there is a real resistance here to the idea that sometimes, shit just happens.

 

I actually found WildKingdom's post one of the most disturbing, angry and frankly clueless posts I have read on this forum in a long while. To say shit just happens takes away all personal power and sovereignty over one's body and heath, and leaves us purely as victims. We are not victims. We all have the power to make choices in all aspects of our lives, and health being one of them. Yes, things sometimes appear to go wrong, but the current medical paradigm of blaming "bad genes" or "bad luck" plays right into big pharma's hands, "Don't worry, its not your fault, it was the bum hand your were drawn, but don't worry, we have a medication that will help you, it won't cure you though, but its all you have got, so don't go looking elsewhere for help, there is none." We are expected to accept our fate, take what they offer and not question.

 

Mother Nature is not a moron, she knows what she is doing and does it for a reason. For example, fever and rashes in "infectious" disease, are not "bad" things, they are the mechanisms that an intelligent body utilizes to heal itself, suppress them with pharmaceuticals and override the natural processes of the organism and shit happens. A malnourished, or compromised (by toxins, or a malfunctioning immune system for example) body will not necessarily have the ability, inner strength and resources to allow the organism to heal, and when a crisis hits, shit happens. It's not the healing process that is the cause, it is the inherent condition of the body which is not allowing the healing to proceed as it should. Take cancer, one in four people will be diagnosed with this disease sometime in their lives and this figure, despite the billions of dollars thrown at finding the cure, is still on the rise. The understanding and treatment of Cancer has been an epic fail. We still have no clue what Cancer is and why it occurs. However, scientists at the University of Arizona might know the answer to this question, and have stated, "Cancer is not a random bunch of selfish rogue cells behaving badly, but a highly-efficient pre-programmed response to stress, honed by a long period of evolution." I won't go into this in great detail, because it is way OT, but for those interested in the work, you can click here. Basically, Cancer can no longer be seen as something bad that happens to an intrinsically healthy body (shit happens), but rather it is something the body (innate wisdom) actively does in response to an intrinsically unhealthy cellular environment. It is an expression not of deviance, but of the body's intelligence and survival. Their work provides insight into how the disease process has inherent logic and the body's healing impulse to return to balance and survival. Interfere with that and shit may well happen. Cancer is a symptom, not a disease. In my life, I have known two people with bone Cancer, a childhood friend and my DH. My childhood friend was treated with everything western medicine had to offer, including limb amputation: he died. My DH had no treatment and completely healed from the Cancer seven years ago.

 

We do have power over how our body responds to challenges, we can choose to nurture the body to allow it to function optimally when challenged with nutritious food, clean water, exercise, sunlight, and where possible avoidance of environmental chemical toxins. I would also say, where possible, avoidance of western, slash, burn and cut, medicine (not saying there is no good in all western medicine - trauma care for example). By understanding the true nature of disease and how the body responds, rather than just throwing up your hands and saying this was just bad luck, shit happens, it empowers you to take responsibility for your own health and healing and to choose the right course of action for yourself and your children.

 

As for vaccines, if you choose to vaccinate your child or yourself, then yeah, shit can happen.

05-06-2013 07:16 AM
dinahx I believe that DNA exists, but I don't believe in genetic susceptibility. I believe in genetic resistance. I certainly reject Eugenics & It's entire legacy.

So here is an example of Genetic Resistance vs. Susceptibility: you spray some bugs with DDT. Only 50% die. You could say that that 50% were genetically susceptible to DDT, but I say 50% were genetically RESISTANT to something that is inherently toxic. It is a paradigm shift. Whereas now we might spend years researching the genes that caused the bugs to die from *inherent toxicity*, we could instead be researching which genes allowed the bugs to resist the toxic onslaught, or better yet: alternatives to DDT!

Same deal with Breast Cancer. We have tons of research into 'genetics' & instead we ignore the FACT that *most* women use makeup, hair products, cleaning products, etc. Chock Full of *known carcinogens*. Only like 25% of women nurse @ all in the US & we know that nursing 2 years reduces Breast Cancer risk 50% (Yale). But instead women are focused on 'Do I have BRAC1&2 & let me get a carcinogenic series of XRays every year' Instead of blaming the plastic factory up the street & getting some monetary help with treatment, women are encouraged to blame Great Aunt Sally.

So I mean that focus on genetic 'susceptibility' can be:
*A Form of Blame the Victim (no that Vax was awesome, it was just your kid's genes sucked, that's why they had a seizure after!)

*A Dead End (they pour tons of research into genetics for Autism & NOTHING has emerged there in terms of prevention or cure)

*Misleading (Sandra Steingraber says that 80% of Cancer is Environmental but the public believes it is mostly genetic & lifestyle)

*Eugenic (just a slightly more sophisticated modern version)

I feel that by Hyperfocusing on Genetics, we systematically ignore the area where we can make an impact for ALL people: the Environment (both macro & micro). I think it is a systematic ignoring so we can continue business as usual for Corporations & Polluters & just focus on 'hey, not EVERYone who lives near a (Frack Operation, Aerial Spray, Fiberglass Factory) gets cancer!' 'Only 1 in 31 boys get Autism' etc
05-06-2013 05:10 AM
kathymuggle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

 

As WildKingdom says, it seems there is a real resistance here to the idea that sometimes, shit just happens.

Did someone say this (other than the OP).  Who?  

 

Some pro-vaxxers are hyper focusing on this in this thread - and I am not sure why.  Maybe they are hoping for some sort of Halo effect:  Let's take the position (good health choices contribute to good health), make them more extreme, jump to some weird conclusions  (aka Wild Kingdom) and hope all non-vaxxers looks bad? 

 

I think most people can see through this.

 

I also think the whole thing is irrelevant as far as not-vaxxing goes - I believe in "sh** happens" and still don't vax.  

 

The other reason I see for this line of discussion is fear mongering.  Hey if we can get people to admit "sh** happens" maybe they will start worrying it could happen to them.  In other word, let's engage in fear mongering.  If this is the purpose behind this line of questioning - let's have at it - but let's throw some commonly accepted stats behind them. Anyone want to discuss the risk of getting tetanus or diphtheria in the vaxxed versus unvaxxed in wealthy countries? 

05-05-2013 10:58 PM
Katie8681 Why did you put the word genetics in quotes? Are you not a believer in that theory either? And why would you say inferior? There is no superior or inferior when it comes to evolved traits. There is what worked or at least did not hurt much in the past, and it may or may not be helping the individual now. Sickle cell trait is s good example most people are familiar with.
05-05-2013 09:39 PM
dinahx Right, especially when Colonists from another continent invade your land en masse. Wars & battles & land theft started immediately. I am sure Guns, Germs & Steel dealt with the intentional Genocide via primitive BioWarfare. No one but PP mentioned anything about Noble Savages living in perfect harmony with the Earth. To use that to diminish the harm we currently suffer from Pollution, Pesticides, HFCS, Epidemic Diabetes, Obesity, Lung Disease, etc, is patently ridiculous.

There is also resistance on the ProVax side that sometimes, pharmaceutical products are what is flawed, not the recipient's inferior 'genetics'. Read Pox: An American History, Vax Injury was being discussed in Congress 100 years ago, by the Mothers of the Injured. There are books with pictures of Injured & Maimed Children, etc. Vax then & Vax now has a casualty level, which is why I believe our Creator will always protect both Religious Exemptions 2 Vax & CO to War. Because if those in power had their way, neither of these would have ever existed.
05-05-2013 09:35 PM
Katie8681
Quote:
Are you seriously asking that question? You might not know so much about Native American history then. They were KILLED with BioWarfare & Genocide, by being deprived to their land and then intentionally exposed to virulent disease. Heard of Jeffery Amherst and his SmallPox blankets. 

The epidemics started as soon as first contact was made, long before being kicked off their land. Read "1491" by Charles Mann or better yet "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond. I am not a believer in the whole "Noble Savage" living in perfect health and harmony with the Earth thing, but they sure did breastfeed, birth vaginally, and avoid pesticides and vaccines, and on exposure to novel viruses and bacteria they died en masse.

 

And actually, when it comes to parasite load, that may STRENGTHEN our immune systems. There is a theory backed with some interesting research that people who have parasites have fewer allergies and autoimmune diseases.

 

As WildKingdom says, it seems there is a real resistance here to the idea that sometimes, shit just happens.

05-05-2013 07:29 PM
dinahx Hmmm, you don't have my permission to submit it for publication, in case that was the next move. Are we really allowed to repost removed posts on here?
05-05-2013 10:34 AM
MamaMunchkin
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHinJersey View Post

 

What would happen if 80 percent of the population of this country decided to adopt the antivax position?

 

"My baby matters more than yours" folks are quite willing to piggyback off the investment the rest of us have made in the public good to spare their child the infinitesimal risk of a vaccine reaction. Hey, remember when themerisol cause autism?! 

 

Even if 100% are anti-vax, it - won't - change my vax decision. Not at all.

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