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  Topic Review (Newest First)
07-10-2013 10:57 PM
prosciencemum
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

No, it takes a critical eye and an open mind. Things that many thoughtful mamas here at MDC actually DO possess.

Sure some,even a lot of science is relatively easy to understand. The scientific method after all is just about trying to understand the world around us with the help of mathematical techniques.

Some things are more complicated though - that's all my point is. I don't think it's condescending to believe that people who've spent years studying a subject might understand it better than the average person posting in an Internet forum.

I've mentioned it before - can't remember if it was here, but Bad Science by Ben Goldacre is a nice helpful book, clearly not on the side of big pharma, but with some great tips about critiquing science.
07-08-2013 08:26 AM
Taximom5
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

Maybe. Sometimes. Do my posts actually get read before they are objected to....?

I read and re-read your post -- the one you seem to be replying to, although it is not clear, since you didn't quote -- several times before writing my response. I gave my response a great deal of thought, and reminded myself (and you) that you are coming from a very different perspective, one that doesn't necessarily allow you to see first-hand the extent of corruption and ethical problems involved with the vaccine industry.

Does that answer your question?
07-08-2013 06:57 AM
Marnica
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

Maybe. Sometimes. Do my posts actually get read before they are objected to....?

I can only speak for myself, but yes, I read your posts before responding. I'm wondering if YOU read them before hitting the submit button and realize how condescending some of them sound?

07-08-2013 06:54 AM
Marnica
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

Sure. And they also get it.

Science is complex, but the thing that differentiates it from religion is evidence. Maybe it takes years of study to understand the evidence sometimes, but it's still there.

No, it takes a critical eye and an open mind. Things that many thoughtful mamas here at MDC actually DO possess.

07-07-2013 02:26 PM
prosciencemum Nm.
07-07-2013 05:06 AM
Taximom5 Emmy, that's so good, it should have its own thread!
07-07-2013 03:58 AM
emmy526

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/07/07/courts-rule-mmr-thimerosal-containing-vaccines-caused-autism-brain-damage/

07-06-2013 03:28 PM
Taximom5
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

Sure. And they also get it.

Science is complex, but the thing that differentiates it from religion is evidence. Maybe it takes years of study to understand the evidence sometimes, but it's still there.

You sound like you approach science with the reverence and passive acceptance typically seen in religious views.

Scientific "evidence" of safety/efficacy has been given for Every. Single. Recalled. Drug. Each and every time, the manufacturers did their best to fight against the truth coming out.

It's awfully condescending for you to tell us that "it takes years of study to understand the evidence," when so many people have had their adverse reactions--evidence of harm-- denied by the manufacturers and their paid cronies.

When the scientists are instructed by those funding the studies to NOT study the people who have suffered reactions--in other words, to ignore the evidence--and instead to come up with studies showing safety and efficacy at all costs, then having faith in "science" becomes a bad joke at best.

Your branch of science may be the last branch that has remained relatively pure. The "science" of pharmacology has become the science of how to sell the most pharmaceutical products possible. What used to be a tool to save lives has become increasingly tainted by the corrupt companies who profit at every turn, and who have staffed the government watchdog agencies with their own paid representatives.
07-06-2013 12:04 PM
prosciencemum Sure. And they also get it.

Science is complex, but the thing that differentiates it from religion is evidence. Maybe it takes years of study to understand the evidence sometimes, but it's still there.
07-06-2013 09:14 AM
Turquesa You'll notice in my post that I didn't bring up not questioning electricity. I even hesitated to mention gravity. What makes science beautiful is that even the seemingly obvious has so much unknown about it.

As an aside, here's an interesting exercise. Enter the following search term into your browser: "Believe in vaccines." I find it fascinating how many politicians and doctors use that phrase because it's a statement of faith and not of science. There's a fine line between treating science as science and science as religion. I think that "God has spoken" and "the science has spoken" are equally dogmatic and religious statements. They both convey, "I've heard what I wanted to hear, I believe what I want to believe, and I am uninterested in any further information that might challenge it." Apart from the earth not being flat, I can think of very few scientific facts that don't come with some subtlety, mystery, and complexity. Even the stuff we take for granted comes with stuff we can't take for granted. Japonica's post illustrates that well.

But getting back on topic, here's the rub with vaccines. Whether through psychological or legal coercion, they are medical interventions that are getting forced on us. We can't give our informed consent or refusal to accepting gravity and electricity (ever been in a thunder storm?) So I'm sure you'll understand that because they're so entrenched in public policy and medical practice, vaccines warrant such a special level of scientific scrutiny. smile.gif
07-05-2013 10:05 PM
beckybird

Gravity.....that's a good one! Unfortunately, nobody really understands gravity, at least not yet. 

 

Quote:

Gravity still stumps scientists

The wimpiest force in the universe is tough to explain

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/20215345/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/gravity-still-stumps-scientists/#.UdedCW2bgog

 

The immune system..... we don't fully understand that, either. We, meaning scientists, researchers, humankind, etc. We still have so much to discover about the immune system. As one immunologist admits,

Quote:

For now, from the standpoint of the practicing clinician the immune system remains a black box, says Garry Fathman, MD, a professor of immunology and rheumatology and associate director of the Institute for Immunology, Transplantation and Infection.

“If a patient were to ask me, ‘How’s my immune system doing today?’ I would have no idea how to answer that, and I’m an immunologist. None of us can answer that.

 

Quote:
We can perturb the immune system all kinds of different ways, measure the levels of hundreds or thousands of different things in response to that, and figure out which ones go up or down with different states of health or non-health,” Davis says. “Anything that might affect the system — a vaccine, a disease, a drug — can tell you something.

(Thanks Momtezuma! http://stanmed.stanford.edu/2011summer/article7.html )

 

This is it, right here. Vaccines affect the immune system--everyone agrees with this fact, right? Do vaccines only affect the system by providing immunity to disease, and nothing more? Of course not--that's nonsense! In some individuals, vaccines can adversely affect the immune system. This is an accepted fact as well, right?  Ok then. Now, with these facts in mind, you have to make a choice. Is the current scientific evidence acceptable?

07-05-2013 06:23 PM
japonica
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

Questioning is pro-science, but questioning beyond reasonable doubt is not. You would not question gravity, or electricity for example.

 

My husband is a HV electrician, responsible for installation and testing of the massive power structures of industrial sites. If he did not continually question the changeable properties of electricity, influenced by such mundane things as surrounding infrastructure and weather (of all things), he'd likely be dead by now. 

 

Based on his experience over the past 25 years, it's the guys who go into it taking everything at face value, without question, and without a critical eye ("Oh that could never happen! The Engineer knows what he's doing") who end up as accident report stats.  

07-05-2013 06:03 PM
kathymuggle
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

It's quite hard to when systematic reviews and the odd of the scientific literature are so strongly in favour of all the currently recommended vaccines - that after all is why they are currently recommended.

Questioning is pro-science, but questioning beyond reasonable doubt is not. You would not question gravity, or electricity for example.

 

 

A thumbs up to Turquesa and Taxi's response….

 

 

I would not say someone who questions gravity or electricity is anti science.

 

Not agreeing with one commonly accepted practice in science does not make one anti-science as a whole.  In fact, haven't you argued repeatedly that you can still attachment parent and vax? That one choice not always held by the rest of the community does not negate the other ways you are pro attachment parenting?

 

I think the stance of non vax =anti science is painting with very large brush strokes and illogical.

07-05-2013 01:46 PM
Taximom5
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

It's quite hard to when systematic reviews and the odd of the scientific literature are so strongly in favour of all the currently recommended vaccines - that after all is why they are currently recommended.

Questioning is pro-science, but questioning beyond reasonable doubt is not. You would not question gravity, or electricity for example.

I just got done reading "Bad Science" by Ben Goldacre, who many of you know is extremely critical of big pharma tactics to sell medicines. I strongly recommend everyone read that before making any more proclamations about what is or isn't scientific. smile.gif

Comparing vaccines--an invasive injection of many chemicals that can affect immunity (which is good), autoimmunity (which is not good), neurological function, brain function, etc--with GRAVITY is unscientific.

 

But of course, there are questions one can and should ask about gravity:  Are there situations where gravity behaves differently?  Are there situations where gravity's effect can be changed? How?  Why?

 

And why on earth WOULDN'T one question anything about electricity?  FOR EXAMPLE: CAN IT BE MADE TO BE SAFER???? (Hello?  Sound familiar?)

 

It certainly sounds like you are saying that we shouldn't question vaccines.  That kind of thinking does not go over well with those who have already been injured by vaccines.  

07-05-2013 01:19 PM
Turquesa
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

It's quite hard to when systematic reviews and the odd of the scientific literature are so strongly in favour of all the currently recommended vaccines - that after all is why they are currently recommended.

Questioning is pro-science, but questioning beyond reasonable doubt is not. You would not question gravity, or electricity for example.

I just got done reading "Bad Science" by Ben Goldacre, who many of you know is extremely critical of big pharma tactics to sell medicines. I strongly recommend everyone read that before making any more proclamations about what is or isn't scientific. smile.gif

Except that the science of vaccine has a lot more unanswered questions. It isn't as black and white as the science of gravity or a spherically shaped earth. The 2011 report on vaccine safety from the Institutes of Medicine, while heralding vaccine safety, simultaneously details all of the gaps and unknowns in this branch of research. I strongly recommend everyone read that before making any more proclamations about what is or isn't scientific. smile.gif

duck.gif
07-05-2013 12:15 PM
prosciencemum It's quite hard to when systematic reviews and the odd of the scientific literature are so strongly in favour of all the currently recommended vaccines - that after all is why they are currently recommended.

Questioning is pro-science, but questioning beyond reasonable doubt is not. You would not question gravity, or electricity for example.

I just got done reading "Bad Science" by Ben Goldacre, who many of you know is extremely critical of big pharma tactics to sell medicines. I strongly recommend everyone read that before making any more proclamations about what is or isn't scientific. smile.gif
07-05-2013 09:47 AM
Marnica
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post

"Yes, the Mayo clinic is wrong." 

 

Here is what the AAP has to say about it as well: 

 

"Although use of the gluten/casein-free diet for children with ASDs is popular, there is little evidence to support or refute this intervention.

Parents of children with ASDs will understandably pursue interventions that they believe may help their child, particularly if the therapies are viewed as being unlikely to have any adverse effects. Unfortunately, families are often exposed to unsubstantiated, pseudoscientific theories and related clinical practices that are, at best, ineffective and, at worst, compete with validated treatments or lead to physical, emotional, or financial harm." 

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2008/1215/p1399.html

Here is what the NHS has to say : "Examples of suggested CAMS to treat ASD include:

  • special diets, such as gluten-free diets
  • vitamin supplements
  • anti-fungal medication
  • chelation therapy, which uses medication or other agents to remove metal, in particular mercury, from the body

There is little or no evidence that any of these approaches are effective, and some may even be potentially dangerous.

If you are considering a CAM, look out for certain claims and signs that suggest that the treatment may be unsound. These include claims that:

  • are based on overly simplified scientific theories – for example, that ASD is caused by mercury in the body
  • promise effective treatment for a wide range of unrelated symptoms
  • offer dramatic results or the possibility of a cure
  • rely on unpublished case reports rather than carefully designed studies
  • the treatment has no risks or side effects "

 

This was after just a few minutes of googling. I could find more but I don't think it would make a difference.

 

So I guess the AAP is wrong, Mayo Clinic is wrong, and NHS is wrong?  And this is why there is no point in debating certain people on this forum. Anything and everything that doesn't support your theory is "biased" "big pharma" "wrong" and there is no arguing with people like that.  So with that I bid you all farewell!  

 

If anyone has anything to add please do, but it seems like most pro science/pro vaccine people have left this board. 

So one cannot be pro-science and vaccine skeptic? Again I call BS

07-05-2013 09:43 AM
Marnica
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post

 

I do not believe that a doctor would refuse to treat chronic constipation in any child. Unfortunately, there just isn't much that can done other that eat more fiber, increase water intake etc.  Suppositories can be used occasionally but can create a dependency. 

 

"In August of 2009, a study done by S.H. Ibrahim et al. did address some of these research issues. "U.S. News and World Report" writes that the researchers followed both autistic children and non-autistic children for 18 years, noting gastrointestinal problems. The study authors found very little difference in the frequency of problems like diarrhea and gastric reflux between children with autism and those without. They did find a higher percentage of constipation in autistic children but feeding issues like ritualistic eating and picky eating was higher in children with autism as well." 

 

"Autistic children often have very narrow food preferences that can contribute to constipation. It is this kind of increased incidence of picky eating in children with autism that could account for the higher levels of constipation, Ibrahim and his colleagues found. Autistic children may not get enough fiber.


Medications can also play a role. The stimulant medications that autistic children take can affect appetite, digestion or influence food issues, Ibrahim reported.
 

 http://www.livestrong.com/article/496272-constipation-in-children-with-autism/#ixzz2XuCdqFSN

 

So I think there are many plausible reasons why an autistic child may have more problems with constipation than children without autism. 

BOLLOCKS. I have absolutely nothing to add except to point out that this is total crap. - mainly because I don't feel like banging my head against a brick wall - but I also just can't help myself sometimes. winky.gif

07-03-2013 11:39 PM
nia82 I meant it doesn't affect us in our children are not on the spectrum.
07-03-2013 05:00 PM
emmy526

http://worldtruth.tv/boy-recovers-from-autism-by-removing-dairy-gluten-strong-evidence-links-vaccines-to-autism/

07-03-2013 03:00 PM
Taximom5
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

OT but I feel this should be mentioned because not only autism but others that have vaccine reactions do effect society.

 

NOT to be snippy but if you live in the US it will effect you one way or another - the very large amounts of children (and all indications point to it increasing too) will grow into a large society of adults that will impact many aspects of every day society, a direct financial burden that will greatly increase, a need for more facilities and more professionals to care for the growing population numbers. I see the direct effect right now in my local school budget.

 

Personally I have yet to meet a "mild" case of autism IRL, those I do know will need long term daily care, these are people that will never live independently.

I actually have met many, many young people with mild cases of autism.

 

And they affect everyone in their community.

 

They affect the children in their classes, both in school, and in extra-curricular activities.   School districts across the country have slashed the number of special ed aides, even while the number of autistic children continues to rise.  One teacher in our district tells us that she has 11 special ed kids in her 2nd grade class.  8 of them have some form of autism.  There is one aide for the whole class. If you don't think that affects the education the other children receive, think again. The teacher says that she is extremely frustrated because she is meeting NOBODY'S needs--not the needs of the gifted, the average, the special ed, none of them, because they all need much more attention than she and one aide can give.

 

How some of these mildly autistic children do in the long term is, in many ways, dependent on both how they are taught, both at home and at school.

 

I know at least 2 of them who have been told, over and over again by well-meaning parents and well-meaning "experts" that there are things they cannot do well because they are autistic.  Literally.  Both of them have said, many times, "I can't do/have major trouble with _________ (dealing with people) (transitioning from activity to activity) (dealing with a change in plans) (etc) because I am autistic."  As far as I could see, nobody ever taught them how to work through or around their very real challenges.  Nobody ever gave them the tools necessary to learn how to do ________ in a way that worked for them.  They were literally taught that they couldn't do it, and wouldn't EVER be able to do it because they were autistic.

 

The children who were part of the very beginning of the wave of autism increases--those children are just now entering adulthood.  Suddenly, we as a community are faced with the questions, "where should they live? Who is responsible for them?"

These are questions that rarely had to be answered before.

07-03-2013 01:52 PM
emmy526

http://dana.org/news/cerebrum/detail.aspx?id=44080

 

 

Quote:
The gut-brain axis—an imaginary line between the brain and the gut—is one of the new frontiers of neuroscience. Microbiota in our gut, sometimes referred to as the “second genome” or the “second brain,” may influence our mood in ways that scientists are just now beginning to understand. Unlike with inherited genes, it may be possible to reshape, or even to cultivate, this second genome. As research evolves from mice to people, further understanding of microbiota’s relationship to the human brain could have significant mental health implications.
07-03-2013 11:08 AM
serenbat
Quote:
Originally Posted by nia82 View Post

I know little about autism as it doesn't affect us.

OT but I feel this should be mentioned because not only autism but others that have vaccine reactions do effect society.

 

NOT to be snippy but if you live in the US it will effect you one way or another - the very large amounts of children (and all indications point to it increasing too) will grow into a large society of adults that will impact many aspects of every day society, a direct financial burden that will greatly increase, a need for more facilities and more professionals to care for the growing population numbers. I see the direct effect right now in my local school budget.

 

Personally I have yet to meet a "mild" case of autism IRL, those I do know will need long term daily care, these are people that will never live independently.

07-03-2013 12:02 AM
nia82 I know little about autism as it doesn't affect us. I saw however our neighbor's boy who improved once the parents went with a Dan doctor who tested him for allergies and celiac and so on. Now he's off gluten, diary, eggs and improved a lot. No more pain and finally a happy face.

Apart from that (we are select delay vaccinators) the AAP is nothing more than a trade organization that protects its member's financial interests. They are despicable - they not only condone the horrific unnecessary surgery of circumcision, they flat out say it's beneficial when the rest of the civilized world's pediatricians find the forced surgery unethical. It clearly shows their interest does not lie with the well-being and health and genital integrity of children.
07-02-2013 10:24 PM
Kamiro

((member hat))

To be honest, I am not in the 'vaccines cause autism' crowd at all. If there is a correlation or they are related - I haven't done enough true research to even pretend to be educated on that subject. headscratch.gif

 

 

I have to take a super b complex to feel on kilter emotionally - especially during pregnancy. Makes a tremendous difference in mood for myself. Totally hear you and think that is amazing on the vit b recovery. Going to look in to the Japan studies (if I remember! I'm sleep deprived lately).

 

As for neurological disabilities and supplements -

Currently I don't believe all things can be cured by supplements or therapies. 

I'm humble enough to know I'm not educated on this particular subject and can only base my opinions on my worldview and experiences. I think there is tremendous help to be had by upping certain supplements that neurologically needy people lack or have fraility with (such as the DMG supplement and B vits) but I could not see myself as going so far to say that all neurological differences and disabilities are nutrition based/can be cured.

 

In all, it is interesting to talk about and share experiences and knowlege gleaned...

 

Even better to hear of success stories. 

 

 

Thanks for good discussions ladies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

I agree with you that vaccines are not the sole cause of autism, and that there are wolves in sheeps clothing on both sides, and that the "throw money at it" attitude is kinda disgusting.

 

But--why was it not the doctors' ultimate responsibility to cure your daughter's constipation?  Why wouldn't it be the doctors' ultimate responsibility to to cure every medical condition that might be contributing to autism?

 

I'm still not buying that a kid can be "different" or "disabled" when it comes to neurological issues.  This is because I have had a few neurological issues of my own that were misdiagnosed by various doctors as a virus, as a disease, as a migraine disorder, and as "just something you'll have to live with."  If I had believed them, I would have had to go on disability, because I certainly couldn't work when I couldn't even stand up because of the dizziness.  I couldn't respond properly to conversation, because of the roaring in my ears, and all I wanted to do was to bang my head on the wall until the pain went away.  (I didn't actually bang my head on the wall, but I really wanted to.)

 

I had B12 deficiency.

 

And nobody thought to test for it until my husband happened to look it up, and demanded that the doctor test me.

 

Even then, the doctor tried to convince us that my B12 was normal, because the way the "normal" levels are set up in the US, you have to be half-dead before you test as below normal. I was borderline, which supposedly meant I was normal.  But according to the Pernicious Anaemia Society, "normal" levels should be about 300 points higher than they are.  And in Japan, that's exactly what they do. They treat anything under 650 as being B12-deficient, whereas in the US, they only treat you if you're below 200.  And I was 290.  After a week of treatment, my symptoms disappeared.

 

Just imagine--if it's this difficult for a verbal adult to get properly treated for vitamin deficiencies, imagine how it is for a non-verbal autistic child.

 

And interestingly, Japan has the lowest rates of Alzheimer's/age-related dementia in the world.  Guess which vitamin deficiency is associated with Alzheimer's /age-related dementia?

07-02-2013 09:25 PM
Taximom5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamiro View Post

 

However, I also get tired of the 'lets throw money at it!' mindset we have in America. Some times our kids are just different, or are disabled - and no magic pill we buy is going to solve it. I don't buy vaccines are the sole cause of autism and I don't buy that spending thousands of dollars can 'cure' a true autistic child.

I  do have my own anecdotal story about constipation with an autistic child.

 

My doctors did refuse to treat chronic constipation, though I do not believe ultimately it was their responsibility to 'cure' her.

"Just give her miralaxx" even when Miralaxx was not working. They never bothered above and beyond that.

To this day we still use colon cleanse, smooth move tea, and epsom salts. Used a chiropractor a couple times, not so sure what I think of that yet...It is a constant battle.

Anyways, since the Behavior balance and pooping, gone are the soft ball size poops - but we still have the horrendous smell that comes with the leaks because for nearly 6 years we had chronic constipation. I should have gotten more proactive, but now I know. Anyways, there are various doctors who do not take these things seriously. They aren't all like the doctor in "It hurts when I poop."

...

 

As for supplements and the like:

 In my experience, there are wolves in sheeps clothing on either side of the fence. Buyer beware.

I agree with you that vaccines are not the sole cause of autism, and that there are wolves in sheeps clothing on both sides, and that the "throw money at it" attitude is kinda disgusting.

 

But--why was it not the doctors' ultimate responsibility to cure your daughter's constipation?  Why wouldn't it be the doctors' ultimate responsibility to to cure every medical condition that might be contributing to autism?

 

I'm still not buying that a kid can be "different" or "disabled" when it comes to neurological issues.  This is because I have had a few neurological issues of my own that were misdiagnosed by various doctors as a virus, as a disease, as a migraine disorder, and as "just something you'll have to live with."  If I had believed them, I would have had to go on disability, because I certainly couldn't work when I couldn't even stand up because of the dizziness.  I couldn't respond properly to conversation, because of the roaring in my ears, and all I wanted to do was to bang my head on the wall until the pain went away.  (I didn't actually bang my head on the wall, but I really wanted to.)

 

I had B12 deficiency.

 

And nobody thought to test for it until my husband happened to look it up, and demanded that the doctor test me.

 

Even then, the doctor tried to convince us that my B12 was normal, because the way the "normal" levels are set up in the US, you have to be half-dead before you test as below normal. I was borderline, which supposedly meant I was normal.  But according to the Pernicious Anaemia Society, "normal" levels should be about 300 points higher than they are.  And in Japan, that's exactly what they do. They treat anything under 650 as being B12-deficient, whereas in the US, they only treat you if you're below 200.  And I was 290.  After a week of treatment, my symptoms disappeared.

 

Just imagine--if it's this difficult for a verbal adult to get properly treated for vitamin deficiencies, imagine how it is for a non-verbal autistic child.

 

And interestingly, Japan has the lowest rates of Alzheimer's/age-related dementia in the world.  Guess which vitamin deficiency is associated with Alzheimer's /age-related dementia?

07-02-2013 03:18 PM
Kamiro

Mod hat: Teacozy and Taximom, please clean up your posts on page 1. There were no flags on them, so I'm just addressing it in the thread for transparency.

Neither of you want to see a child suffer and it is insulting to assume that in a fellow poster. You're both valued members here, so I offer my thanks in advance - pm if you have questions.

 

Member hat:

As for the vitamins debate - my child became potty trained for the first time in 6 years after being given Behavior Balance with DMG which is recommended for children with autism. There is no correlation/causation psychology 101 mind tricks here. I've scrubbed poopy pants and embarassing social situations for far too long to even acknowledge that this was just some 'coincidence'. The stuff helps a lot. Happy stimming replaces the angry outbursts and the kid just does better. So, thats my bias.

 

However, I also get tired of the 'lets throw money at it!' mindset we have in America. Some times our kids are just different, or are disabled - and no magic pill we buy is going to solve it. I don't buy vaccines are the sole cause of autism and I don't buy that spending thousands of dollars can 'cure' a true autistic child.

I  do have my own anecdotal story about constipation with an autistic child.

 

My doctors did refuse to treat chronic constipation, though I do not believe ultimately it was their responsibility to 'cure' her.

"Just give her miralaxx" even when Miralaxx was not working. They never bothered above and beyond that.

To this day we still use colon cleanse, smooth move tea, and epsom salts. Used a chiropractor a couple times, not so sure what I think of that yet...It is a constant battle.

Anyways, since the Behavior balance and pooping, gone are the soft ball size poops - but we still have the horrendous smell that comes with the leaks because for nearly 6 years we had chronic constipation. I should have gotten more proactive, but now I know. Anyways, there are various doctors who do not take these things seriously. They aren't all like the doctor in "It hurts when I poop."

(story for kids)

 

 

Reading this:

 

Quote:

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2013/06/in-autism-the-importance-of-the-gut/276648/

""Many doctors don't recognize that aggressive behavior is not part of autism," Margolis said. "This is really a new field." Research is showing that a common cause of autistic children acting out is simply because they're constipated -- which, from there, can mean they stop sleeping and eating well. They may become aggressive and frustrated because they have no other way of saying that their stomachs hurt."

It is amazing, and is nice to have some validation to something I have known this for years now...Things are so much better now that we have found a pooping regimen that works.

 

As for supplements and the like:

 In my experience, there are wolves in sheeps clothing on either side of the fence. Buyer beware.

07-02-2013 01:50 PM
Taximom5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post


Ditto.

Questioning science is pro-science.

Demanding more rigorous and independent science is pro-science.

Demanding independent funding for science to ensure genuine objectivity is pro-science.

Recognizing the limits of science is pro-science.

Recognizing that good research creates more questions than it answers is pro-science.

Calling out weaknesses in every study we see is pro-science.

Calling oneself pro-science isn't pro-science. It's just a self-congratulatory way of calling yourself right without actually proving it.

If you want to make your case, make your case. But my patience for "pro-science" sanctimony is wearing thin.

There were many, many brilliant posts over the last few days. 

 

This is one of the best EVER!  

07-02-2013 12:42 PM
Turquesa
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma View Post

Really tired of the straw man insinuation that because we question the validity of certain studies, the conclusions of certain medical groups, and/or don't believe that modern day scientists and medicine hold all the answers that we are anti-science.

Ditto.

Questioning science is pro-science.

Demanding more rigorous and independent science is pro-science.

Demanding independent funding for science to ensure genuine objectivity is pro-science.

Recognizing the limits of science is pro-science.

Recognizing that good research creates more questions than it answers is pro-science.

Calling out weaknesses in every study we see is pro-science.

Calling oneself pro-science isn't pro-science. It's just a self-congratulatory way of calling yourself right without actually proving it.

If you want to make your case, make your case. But my patience for "pro-science" sanctimony is wearing thin.
07-02-2013 12:24 PM
Mirzam
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post


 

So I guess the AAP is wrong, Mayo Clinic is wrong, and NHS is wrong?  And this is why there is no point in debating certain people on this forum. Anything and everything that doesn't support your theory is "biased" "big pharma" "wrong" and there is no arguing with people like that.  So with that I bid you all farewell!  

 

If anyone has anything to add please do, but it seems like most pro science/pro vaccine people have left this board. 

 

You are posting sources that have been bought and paid for by big pharma. They have no interest in promoting treatments that do not involve patented pharmaceuticals,they are not about to bite the hand that feeds them. I gave you a link to a pro-vax autism researcher, did you read any of it? Nevermind.

 

The problem as I see it 'teacozy' is that you are arguing against an intervention even pro-vaxers would probably have no issue with because for some children dietary changes really do help, whatever, the AMA, Mayo Clinic or NHS says. It has nothing to do with being anti or pro vaccination. 

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