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  Topic Review (Newest First)
01-02-2014 03:17 AM
BennyPai

This thread has been interesting to read, as I am exploring UC as an option for myself this pregnancy.  I am thankful for the many thoughtful responses, and to the OP for asking the question.

 

I am interested in Unassisted Childbirth for many reasons, but at this time my main concern is for safety in the local hospital setting as well as with the attendants in the home setting.   I have birthed four babies naturally, three at home, and I have always had low-risk pregnancies and births.  I am comfortable with birth, and while I prefer to have an attendant in case of complications, I believe the attendants available to me at this time, some of whom were in attendance at my most recent home birth, may actually contribute to the possibility of my having complications.

 

I also feel that it is important for me to have control during labor, as during past births I have experienced the negative effect which having my control given over to others can have on my labor.

12-15-2013 05:39 PM
oceanmamafarmer thank you Cynthia smile.gif
12-14-2013 12:54 PM
cynthia mosher

Our mod team is a bit short-handed these days so we are not able to stay on top of things as we usually do. 

 

I've read through some of the posts that were flagged and yes - some of the posts are not in accordance with the rules of this forum. I will be removing those people from access to the forum because I can see from their posts that they are fully aware their posts are against the forum guidelines or I have contacted them in the past and asked them to adhere to the rules and they continue to ignore that request.  So I really don't see any point in explaining the rules or asking for edits. If I remove posts that are in violation I will also have to remove posts that quoted them so if you see your post was removed that may be the reason.

 

As for the Unassisted Childbirth Lounge, I will check in with the leader of the forum to make sure all is well. She looks into all requests to join to make sure there is no history of anti-UC posting and that the member seems genuinly interested in or intent on having a UC. If you wish to join the UC Lounge please follow the request process outlined here: http://www.mothering.com/community/forum/thread/1303585/unassisted-childbirth-lounge-requirements-and-application

12-14-2013 06:31 AM
oceanmamafarmer where is a moderator around here? In the Homebirth forums people seem to be asked to leave pretty quickly if it is clear they are not supportive.

Maybe some of that protection here?
12-13-2013 10:23 PM
farmermomma I've really enjoyed reading the UC thread. You UCers are very inspiring to me. I'm not a UCer so I don't think I should be in the private forum. Sorry about some of the bullying that has happened here. But others are still following along. Some of the responses to the crap have been very inspiring as well. Hang in there.
12-13-2013 09:07 PM
rlschrader If I sounded harsh, I'm truly sorry, it's really not usually like me. I think I'm just tired of feeling like we're being "attacked" here in this thread. I got called uneducated earlier and that really did it for me. Still stand by what i said though, minus the possible harshness, I don't judge others for how they want to birth, and I wish others would do the same in return. Plus, I'm pretty pregnant right now and my hormones are a little loud right now, making it hard for me to let things go. smile.gif I think I'm done posting in this thread now, it's pretty much pointless now.
12-13-2013 05:30 PM
Almi

I don't necessarily think that "waiting" deserved the response that she did.  There is no harm in hearing out and respecting another person's perspective.  It's what makes us grow as people. 

There is no doubt that breech birth carries more risks than vertex birth.  We definitely shouldn't be ignoring the fact that a baby has a higher chance of not surviving birth if it is born feet or butt first.  Though the risk is only slightly elevated.  However, like most of the ladies here have said, it still comes down to making the right choices for you.  If a mama feels that she needs a c-section to deliver her baby, all the more power to her.  She may very well be avoiding disaster.  Likewise, if a mama feels that she needs a UC to safely deliver her baby, she may very well be avoiding disaster there, as well.  The key is educating yourself, being aware of what birth entails, and basing your decisions on your own personal situation.  That's all these "birth wars" is ever going to come down to.  Like I said, if it were me, I'd be UC'ing a breech baby, provided that there were no [health] problems that were causing the baby to be breech.  I'd at least cover my bases and get an ultrasound first to make sure there wasn't cord entanglement, hydrocephalus, etc.  But that's ME.

12-13-2013 01:08 PM
sgnorton123 Not to mention that if somebody new to uc or whatever isn't in the private lounge they'll most likely post in the regular unassisted forum which means we'll never be rid of the anti uc trolls lol
12-13-2013 01:06 PM
sgnorton123 I joined it but it took a while to be approved and it appears nobody is using it...
12-13-2013 10:39 AM
IdentityCrisisMama
12-13-2013 09:38 AM
rlschrader Thanks! I'll look into it.
12-13-2013 08:37 AM
salr There is a private uc lounge. I think you can see the instructions for joining under the uc header.
12-13-2013 08:24 AM
rlschrader I have no idea but it'd sure be nice!
12-13-2013 08:18 AM
Viola P How do we make it private?
12-13-2013 08:09 AM
sgnorton123 Ya, seriously. The anti UCers hanging around fear mongering is getting ridiculous. This is after all the uc forum where fellow UCers come for support. There's such a small community of that to begin with. Geez people! If you're so against uc just stay outta the forum.

I do however have another reply to the context. Shit happens. Yes we know that! But we prefer not to live in fear and the what ifs when that chance is so very slim. So enough said! Yikes!
12-13-2013 07:28 AM
rlschrader @waiting, seriously?
I find it so strange that people have such a problem with how we choose to labor and give birth. Seriously, I don't care what you do with your body, it's yours, and if cesareans make you happy then by all means, have at it. I know what's best for me and will be in control of my own body, thank you very much.

On a side note, I sure wish this forum was private, it's getting annoying to have so many people here lately that offer no support to a UC support forum.
12-13-2013 05:47 AM
bcgartley "I've birthed 3 breech babies, one vaginally and two through cesarean ('elective' as my ob is skilled in and offered a vaginal birth, which I declined with the same intuition that makes UC'ers UC'ers)."

Good for you. Then, you will understand when I tell you that what I do with my body is none of your business, and ultimately, I will do what I feel is right for my baby and me.
12-12-2013 04:54 PM
Almi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viola P View Post
 

There is no way to avoid the very sad fact that not all babies survive childbirth. Even if all births took place in the hospital, some would still die - and some would die because they were in the hospital. Likewise, even if all women felt totally supported and were totally respected during birth at home, some babies would still die - and some would die because they didn't have access to hospital services. There is no way to avoid this.

 

All we can do is support and respect each other in our choices, even if they are not the choices we would make for ourselves.

This.  Well said.

12-12-2013 04:07 PM
Viola P

I think feeling safe does make birth safer, at least it would for me. I think it's like this for all animals - when the mother is in stress during birth it becomes less safe.

 

Deadly accidents happen in hospitals too. Just Google "cesarean death" and several news stories will come up with horrible stories about mothers that died after giving birth by (unnecessary?) c-section in hospitals.

 

My friend just had a beautiful successful u/d for her second child after a very traumatic hospital birth with her first child. She told me that she accepted before she uc'd that she'd rather her baby die at home of natural causes than die at the hospital or worse, die in the hospital because of the hospital.

 

I know a woman who birthed at the same hospital i did and a nurse accidentally gave her a dose of a medication that was 400x the maximum amount. As a result her baby flatlined for 4 minutes at birth and she went into a temporary coma. The child is now older and has behavioural problems, which she believes is due to what happened at the birth. Hospitals sometimes create more dangerous situations.

 

In my situation my baby became distressed because of all the interventions. His birth wasn't just traumatic for me, it was utterly terrifying for him. I still feel guilty that i went to the hospital unnecessarily and subjected him to that. Just the thought of how terrified he must have been brings tears to my eyes. I know it was unnecessary, that the hospital caused the harm that it then tried to fix, and harmed us both greatly. 

 

Of course, some women absolutely need to be in a hospital due to their own choice, and that needs to be respected as well.

 

There is no way to avoid the very sad fact that not all babies survive childbirth. Even if all births took place in the hospital, some would still die - and some would die because they were in the hospital. Likewise, even if all women felt totally supported and were totally respected during birth at home, some babies would still die - and some would die because they didn't have access to hospital services. There is no way to avoid this.

 

All we can do is support and respect each other in our choices, even if they are not the choices we would make for ourselves.

12-12-2013 08:11 AM
salr I understand what you're saying, cyclamen, and I agree with you. I was also referencing Almi's post because I agree with the vast majority of what she's saying as well.
For some people feeling safe might be a necessary component of, or vitally important to, a safe birth, but it does not guarantee a safe birth. You and I seem to agree on that.
12-12-2013 07:27 AM
salr That was my disagreement about the wording of how thoughts affect things. There will be times when nothing a person does can give them the outcome they want, and that is sad and tragic. And no one's fault.

I still believe that a person's emotional state affects their physical state, and with birth each woman should think about what that means for them. And they might want to consider that in their risk assessment. If you think I'm saying that a person can ensure or expect a positive outcome based on their emotions, actions, or anything else, then go back and read my first paragraph.
12-11-2013 10:20 PM
Almi

Yes, I'm not disagreeing with that.  I'm not sure what point you're trying to make though.

12-11-2013 09:28 PM
Almi
Quote:
Originally Posted by salr View Post

 I may have different views about how our thoughts affect reality (or maybe I don't, and would express it differently? )

Ha, I'd be interested in hearing. :)

12-11-2013 09:15 PM
salr You nailed it, as far as I'm concerned, Almi. I may have different views about how our thoughts affect reality (or maybe I don't, and would express it differently? ), but that sums up a lot of my thoughts and reasons surrounding UC. Thank you.
12-11-2013 07:01 PM
sgnorton123 Beautifully said almi! :-) all I know is I don't want to go through childbirth again frustrated, angry, uncomfortable, feeling violated and weak/vulnerable...I don't want the hospital again, nor do I even want a midwife...looking forward to my experience this time around :-)
12-11-2013 04:22 PM
Almi

Well, I've only just skimmed this thread for the most part, but I wanted to add my own two cents/experience. :)

 

First of all, why do I choose UC.  I've never given birth in a hospital, I don't hate doctors, and I'm not afraid of hospitals.  In fact, the one time I've seen an OB for this pregnancy, I loved him.  He was great, and he not only supported my decision to UP but also to UC.  Although, the thought of having to fight around hospital protocol when I'm in labor does not sound fun to me, and I'd venture to guess that I'd probably just have stalled labors if I tried going in to a hospital to give birth.  Anyway, my reasoning is simply that it's what has always seemed right to me, for me.  Here's something I typed up a while ago regarding my decisions:

 

Ever since I was a kid, I was always very interested in babies, pregnancy, and birth. I always envisioned myself giving birth in a quiet space where I felt comfortable - all alone. That when I did eventually get pregnant, when I went into labor I wouldn't tell anyone, I'd just find my comfortable place and wait for my baby to come. I never gave it any intensive thought though, these were just fleeting thoughts that I had.
 

Fast forward to my first pregnancy (fall of 2009). Once pregnant, I realized that I would eventually have to give birth, and I started thinking about how I wanted to birth at home. It didn't really cross my mind to try and find a midwife. Either way, I began researching birth, and I came across some freebirth/unassisted childbirth websites, and I was like, Yes, this is what I want!! I was so excited that I wasn't alone in wanting to birth by myself. Furthermore, I didn't fear birth and I was so excited to experience it.

 

One thing that was alarming (and surprising) to me were all of the routine interventions they do in the hospital to laboring women, and how all of these interventions can really upset the birth process and cause complications. I wanted to avoid this at all costs, because the health of my baby and myself were of utmost importance to me, and I felt that I was actually lowering my risk if I birthed outside of the hospital.

 

As I researched more and more (and read birth stories and watched birth videos), I was even more set in my decision to birth unassisted, mostly because I realized that I was not a good candidate for hospital birth. I would not be a "good patient," and I would absolutely hate the experience. No way was anyone going to be bothering me when I was in labor, at such an intense, special time in my life.  I needed to be completely in control, and I didn't want to have to tell anyone to back off with whatever they wanted to stick up or in me.  It would very much upset me to have to fight people while I'm in labor, and I felt I might not be able to say no if all I could do was focus on contractions. 

 

I also know now that what is good for the mother is good for the baby.

 

The birth experience was definitely very important to me. I knew that birth could be wonderful. I wanted a lovely, powerful, calm experience while meeting my child. I worried about bonding, and I knew that the best chance I had at bonding was having a natural, undisturbed birth. 

So let's talk about safety.  We all know that with birth, or really anything in our world, there comes risk.  Risk of things not going our way, risk of death.  We risk death just by being alive.  The key is to just reduce risk as much as possible.  Going to a hospital to give birth is not always the best way to reduce risk for any one labor or birth, but it certainly can be.  It depends on the situation and the individuals in question.  Generally, I think home birth (unassisted or not) is safer than hospital birth.  I don't think that can be said of every situation, I just think that hospital birth should be the exception and not the rule.  I also believe that birthing with a trained birth attendant present is generally safer than not.  Unassisted birth should also be the exception and not the rule, which it pretty much is.  I will not tell someone that is not interested in birthing UA in the first place that that's something she should consider.  Some women want support persons and/or medical personnel.  Some don't.  I personally thought I'd want a few friends/family members to be there for my births.  Truth is, I don't.  It just causes me a bunch of anxiety.

As far as breech birth goes?  I believe that vaginal breech birth is generally safer than breech birth by cesarean.  Each carries its own set of risks, of course.  But generally, there are less associated with vaginal birth, and that goes for the mother baby pair, not just the mother, and not just the baby.  Would I feel comfortable giving birth to a breech babe unassisted?  Absolutely.  Would I tell someone else to?  Probably not.

I believe that the safest birth is birth that is completely on the mother's terms.  Safe birth happens when a woman feels loved, supported, cared for, comfortable, safe, etc.  Safe birth happens when the person that is giving birth is in control.  Another big thing is health.  Safe birth happens when you are healthy, mentally and physically.  When you give your body what it needs to function normally, it will most likely function normally.  And vice versa.  So not only does maternity care in the U.S. suck, but a lot of people have health problems these days.  We are constantly bombarded with toxins and carcinogens through our food, water, air, and environment in general.  Some people choose to put bad things in their body, even if they know it's bad for them.

For me, I've always had good health.  I generally stay away from things that are bad for me as best I can, I eat healthy, and I keep mentally healthy.  I have a very healthy view of birth - in other words, I do not fear it, but at the same time, I respect it.  I believe my body is going to work for me, and it has.  I am very in tune with my body, and I trust that I will know the best course of action for it better than anyone else ever could.  I have had a set of twins and a singleton (due with a fourth any day) completely unassisted.  Short labors.  Easy births.  No serious complications.  I don't think it was luck, as I am of the belief that everything in our universe is based on cause and effect.  Everything that happens, happens as a result of a cause.  I am also of the belief that whatever you hold in your mind most strongly will come true.  It is amazing how our bodies will respond to our thoughts and feelings.  A good example is someone vomiting from anxiety, or getting a headache just from sheer stress.

I'm a good candidate for UC.  Most people are not.  Part of that is probably a cultural thing, but even so, most cultures involve experienced birth attendants at each birth, medically trained or not.  I will not say that we are completely like animals (even though we are still just animals) and can just go off somewhere alone and push out a baby.  Some of us can do that, but most of us want someone there, as we are an extremely complex, social species.  And though birth is fairly difficult for our species, I don't think we were designed more poorly than any other species.

Anyway, I hope I'm making sense.  I just wanted to add one more thing that I was explaining to someone the other day.  One reason I believe that unassisted childbirth generally works so well:

You would be surprised how our bodies work together with those of our babies when we are left to labor on our own (not necessarily alone, but on our own) naturally and move however we see fit. I think one really important thing, physiology aside, is allowing a mother to enter an altered state of mind I like to call "labor land." In this state, it not only makes it much easier to deal with contractions, but it also makes it easier for the mother to delve deep inside herself so she knows exactly what to do (in this state, as long as she didn't have any distractions or someone suggesting things to her, a mother would know if she needed help) and what she's feeling. I have been told that I look very calm and collected in my birth video with Maribel. Well, that's why: labor land. If I had a lot of distractions and drugs that were messing up my hormones, it would make it extremely difficult to reach this state of mind. And thus, labor would become unbearable. I wouldn't be able to focus on just getting my baby out. 

12-11-2013 01:21 AM
walkermommy88 Bone 2 pick, I'm not for or against unassisted delivery, but reading your posts has made me feel a lot more comfortable with ud. I felt bullied into decisions with my last and your tone puts me in mind of that. I don't want to be bullied into making decisions. I will research with an open mind ALL my options for my body and my birth. It's great that you know what is right for you and I'm glad you haven't had any experiences with hospitals that have left you reluctant to go back. That is something to be very greatful for.
12-10-2013 09:31 PM
Viola P @lulu your experience sounds horrible and it's very regrettable that you went through it. I understand why you'd feel more comfortable in a hospital after an experience like that. While UC may clearly be a wrong choice for you personally because of some personal experiences, others may feel that a hospital birth is unacceptable for them for their own reasons.
12-10-2013 06:04 PM
A_Random_Phrase

There were some very awesome posts on this thread. I would have commented on more of them, but my computer and the forum are fighting with each other and to even give a "good post" click caused the whole thread to reload and stop at the first post again, so it has been painful going through the thread.

 

I just want to commend my fellow UCers. Even though I never heard of such a thing until after I had my babies, I support it wholeheartedly. And I agree that personal intuition and decision is more important than statistics - which can be (and often is) skewed and never accurately reveals truth in any instance of which I am aware.

 

Bone2pick, I posted what I did about statistics before I saw your post above and what I said about statistics had nothing to do with your post. Just so you know.

 

This site is being so slow and "giving me fits," so to speak, that I will log off and check back another day.

12-10-2013 04:58 PM
A_Random_Phrase
Quote:

lol this whole discussion, in my understanding, is based on relatively low risk pregnancies, & you're bringing the high risk scenario in and likening it to my analogies in which I never mentioned anything having to do w/high risk, nor have any of the other posters. So if you want to know what us UC'ers would do in a high risk situation please start another thread, because that is not what we are discussing here.  


And you've made it clear as have many others that they don't agree w/our stance on birthing alone, so what are ya'll still doing here?! You're not going to change our minds and this is a SUPPORT forum so if you don't support women doing UC's kindly leave the thread and let us be. We're happy to answers questions, which we've done for the OP and now this is getting beyond that. So I'm drawing the line.

 

 :yeah   

prescottchels, well said.

 

Ditto the comment about breech births. My baby was very healthy and very alert when she was born. There were no risk factors in my pregnancy.

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