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  Topic Review (Newest First)
01-23-2014 04:16 PM
Mirzam

If you have read the above document, you would have noticed another name on the paper, that of F DeStefano. Frank DeStefano is director of the Immunization Safety Office at the CDC and has published papers on how vaccines do not cause autism.

 

http://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(13)00144-3/fulltext

 

(thank you to Contaiminated Vaccines facebook page for pointing this out)

01-23-2014 01:07 PM
Mirzam

The 1999 research paper by Thomas Verstraeten was recently revealed by the CDC following an oversights request by Congress. It highlights just how secretive and deceitful the CDC is. They knew thimerosal was harming babies, but hid it from the public. Verstraeten is not the Geiers, so can we focus on the data not the messengers?

 

http://www.safeminds.org/blog/2014/01/23/new-disclosures-vaccine-safety-datalink-vsd/

 

According to the newly released document, CDC epidemiologic surveillance officers utilized the Vaccine Safety Datalink (a large linked database from four health maintenance organizations in Washington, Oregon, and California) containing demographic, medical and immunization data on over 400,000 infants born between 1991 and 1997 to conduct the investigation.  The data was categorized according to cumulative exposure to ethylmercury (thimerosal) after the first month of life and the subsequent risk of the infant developing degenerative, neurologic or renal disorders. In the paper the authors found an elevated relative risk (RR) for the following disorders: Autism 7.6, nonorganic sleep disorders 5.0 and speech disorders 2.1.  In a court of law, a relative risk of 2.0 typically implies cause and effect.

 

This early run of the data occurred prior to the CDC changing the entrance criteria for the study making it mandatory that all children in the study to have received at least two polio vaccines the first year of life as a proxy for being fully vaccinated. Altering the entrance criteria by adding this new requirement essentially removed the control group of infants who had not been vaccinated. This would be the same as studying the incidence of lung cancer in two pack a day smokers and a three pack a day smokers and not including any non-smokers.

 

Increased risk of developmental neurologic impairment after high exposure to thimerosal-containing vaccine in first month of life. 

 

ETA: Now of course we are giving fetuses thimerosal in their mothers' flu vax.

01-22-2014 08:36 PM
Taximom5
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeckyBird View Post
 

Did any of the Geiers' patients complain? It would make a difference to me whether their patients complained of wrongdoing and harm, or if the medical boards decided they were doing something wrong for whatever reason. If the Geiers were harming people, then they deserved the punishment. However, I wonder if we could find out the charges brought by the different boards. I don't trust the integrity of state medical boards, so I would want to know more about this before I judge the Geiers.

 

So, he did not follow the rules. Is there any evidence of harming patients? Or, did the board just dislike this renegade doctor? (ex. Dr. Burzynski vs. Texas State Medical Board) I do not know much about the Geiers, so if anyone knows the answers to my questions, that would be great! I have to go, so I can't research this tonight anyway.

 

Good question.  I don't know if we can ever really learn the facts.  The news media isn't exactly honest and impartial, either, especially when it's financially supported by pharmaceutical advertising.

 

Remember, Brian Deer's "expose" of Andrew Wakefield supposedly quoted disgruntled parents of Wakefield's patients--but those parents have gone on record as supporting Wakefield, and accusing Deer of misquoting them, and of outright lying.  In addition, he published their medical records without their permission.

01-22-2014 08:26 PM
beckybird

Did any of the Geiers' patients complain? It would make a difference to me whether their patients complained of wrongdoing and harm, or if the medical boards decided they were doing something wrong for whatever reason. If the Geiers were harming people, then they deserved the punishment. However, I wonder if we could find out the charges brought by the different boards. I don't trust the integrity of state medical boards, so I would want to know more about this before I judge the Geiers.

 

Quote:
 neither consistent with evidence-based medicine nor generally accepted in the relevant scientific community."[30] The board ruled that Geier misdiagnosed patients, diagnosed patients without sufficient tests, and recommended risky treatments without fully explaining the risks to the parents.

So, he did not follow the rules. Is there any evidence of harming patients? Or, did the board just dislike this renegade doctor? (ex. Dr. Burzynski vs. Texas State Medical Board) I do not know much about the Geiers, so if anyone knows the answers to my questions, that would be great! I have to go, so I can't research this tonight anyway.

01-22-2014 07:02 PM
chickabiddy

David Geier denies the charges.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/bs-hs-david-geier-charged-20110519,0,3290629.story

01-22-2014 06:36 PM
Taximom5
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post
 

 

At least one of the Geiers should not have been prescribing ANYTHING since he was not a medical professional.  That's not "stretching" the rules, it's trampling them.

 

I completely agree with you.  

 

I would, however, like to know what his defense--if he had any--was, or if he denies having done so in the first place.

01-22-2014 06:05 PM
chickabiddy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
 Katie, as I see it, the Geiers were doing basically the same thing that the vast majority of psychiatrists and even primary care providers do: they were prescribing a medication that they believed would help their patients

 

At least one of the Geiers should not have been prescribing ANYTHING since he was not a medical professional.  That's not "stretching" the rules, it's trampling them.

01-22-2014 05:51 PM
Taximom5
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
 

 

 

 

I thought this article was pretty good, with the following quote:

 

http://drbradstreet.org/2011/05/12/a-reluctant-discussion-of-lupron-and-autism/

 

"But there is another scenario where steroids get trickier and that is puberty which IS under the control of GnRH (the brain messenger and target for Lupron).  There are cases where sexual behavior and sexual obsessions are extremely difficult to regulate in puberty due to the underlying cognitive impairments in ASD.  In these cases there may be appropriate justification to reduce hormone levels to below the normal range and this may be safer than other psychotropic medications to control behavior.  These are not simple or easy choices to make.  

This is not a defense of either Mark Geier, MD or David Geier and their conduct. And clearly we differ in our views of the hormonal issues in ASD and the definition of precocious puberty.  Nor do I agree with their Lupron protocol as I understand it. However, I do not want to see the appropriate scientific discussion of hormones in autism discarded by their legal issues."

I will  add that things like masturbating in public, things teens with moderate-severe ASD often do, can get them kicked out of activities and make them unwelcome places, leading to further isolation.  This is not a small deal, and it would not surprise me at all if a number parents were a-Ok with medication to stem this type of behavior.  

 

Excellent point, kathy, and thank you for posting that link. I had not seen it before.  

I think this is key:
"There is nothing “illegal” about using Lupron for out of control behavior. The off-label use of many medications is completely common in the US. We docs can use any medication we think appropriate to the needs of our patients – even if the FDA did not approve of the use. What is illegal is telling the insurance company the patient has something that they don’t have in order to get it paid for. That is insurance fraud and plenty of doctors have lost their license or gone to jail over that process."

 

 Katie, as I see it, the Geiers were doing basically the same thing that the vast majority of psychiatrists and even primary care providers do: they were prescribing a medication that they believed would help their patients.  If you look at the side effects of most antidepressants, and you look at how psychiatrists stretch the definition of "depression" to include anyone who feels a bit sad, you could argue that what the Geiers did was far, far less problematic than the over-medicating perfectly normal, healthy people.

 

I think a very big problem with both the Geiers and Andrew Wakefield is, they all seem to believe that they can both stretch the pharmaceutical/medical rules AND take on the pharmaceutical/medical industry.  Very, very foolish of them.

01-22-2014 05:23 PM
Taximom5
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

It's quite a work up to be diagnosed with precocious puberty, Taxi. What studies did they do? Was your son seen by a pediatric endocrinologist?

Our pediatrician was very concerned at his well-child checkup, and sent us to the pediatric endocrinologist at the local children's hospital.  The endocrinologist ordered blood and urine tests, and a bone scan of the wrist, after which he diagnosed precocious puberty. He also suggested an MRI of the brain, but we declined.  He offered medication, which we also declined.  He also sent us to a pediatric geneticist, who did not find any genetic reason for his precocious puberty.

01-22-2014 05:17 PM
serenbat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

It's quite a work up to be diagnosed with precocious puberty, Taxi. What studies did they do? Was your son seen by a pediatric endocrinologist?

Yes it is - do you know many parents of autistic children that have faced this?

 

Katti -Do you have any idea the numbers of girls that are autistic and have had uterine embolisation, go on to  later have hysterectomies after years of being on medication including birth control pills to treat their issues? I have a friend who has as autistic daughter who started precocious puberty at eight, she had an embolisation recently done. The OB stated to this mother it is very common for autistic precocious girls, she did some checking and found other parents that also faced this with their precocious/autistic children but could find really nothing on line except that other also can not find this information but deal with it in real life.     

01-22-2014 04:48 PM
kathymuggle

My nephew was given Risperdol for autism while it was off-label.  

 

It seems to me Lupron is not so much experimental as off-label.  

 

It seems there are two issues here:

 

Are the Geiers credible?  No idea. I have not researched it very much.  I don't think practicing medicine without a license is a great idea (although some midwives do it in some places and that is acceptable to some).  

 

Is Lupron a good idea for some kids with autism?  Maybe.

 

I thought this article was pretty good, with the following quote:

 

http://drbradstreet.org/2011/05/12/a-reluctant-discussion-of-lupron-and-autism/

 

"But there is another scenario where steroids get trickier and that is puberty which IS under the control of GnRH (the brain messenger and target for Lupron).  There are cases where sexual behavior and sexual obsessions are extremely difficult to regulate in puberty due to the underlying cognitive impairments in ASD.  In these cases there may be appropriate justification to reduce hormone levels to below the normal range and this may be safer than other psychotropic medications to control behavior.  These are not simple or easy choices to make.  

This is not a defense of either Mark Geier, MD or David Geier and their conduct. And clearly we differ in our views of the hormonal issues in ASD and the definition of precocious puberty.  Nor do I agree with their Lupron protocol as I understand it. However, I do not want to see the appropriate scientific discussion of hormones in autism discarded by their legal issues."

I will  add that things like masturbating in public, something teens with moderate-severe ASD often do, can get them kicked out of activities and make them unwelcome places, leading to further isolation.  This is not a small deal, and it would not surprise me at all if a number parents were a-Ok with medication to stem this type of behavior.  

01-22-2014 03:46 PM
Dakotacakes

Also his son David was convicted and fined $10,000 for practicing medicine without a license in Maryland.  He has a BA and was involved in giving lupron to children!

 

And the datalink breaches were serious.  of course they limit who has access to the data and what can be done with it.  The data contains confidential information (medical records).  The breaches included Mark Geier trying to rename files, and remove files from the secure location which was a clear breach of confidentiality.  Confidentiality is a pretty basic component to doing research.  He also tried to have an IRB review that was actually conducted by his wife, employees and his son.  

 

The study in question are all people who are involved in litigation that requires this finding.  They are also all closely connected to Mark Geier working for his companies or using him as an expert in their lawsuits.  

01-22-2014 01:42 PM
teacozy
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post
 

 

All states in which Mark Geier was licensed to practice medicine have either suspended or revoked his license.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Geier

 

"On April 27, 2011, the Maryland State Board of Physicians suspended Mark Geier's medical license as an "emergency action", saying he "endangers autistic children and exploits their parents by administering to the children a treatment protocol that has a known substantial risk of serious harm and which is neither consistent with evidence-based medicine nor generally accepted in the relevant scientific community."[30] The board ruled that Geier misdiagnosed patients, diagnosed patients without sufficient tests, and recommended risky treatments without fully explaining the risks to the parents. 

 

Geier's licenses to practice medicine in the states of Washington,[34] Virginia [35] and California [36] were suspended as well. In June 2012, Geier was charged with violation of the Maryland suspension by continuing to practice medicine without a license.[37] In August 2012, Geier's license was formally revoked by the Maryland State Board of Physicians.[38] On 5 November 2012, the Missouri Medical board and the Illinois Department of Financial and Professional Regulation revoked Geier’s license, both citing action taken by the Maryland State Board of Physicians.[39] On April 12, 2013, Geier's last medical license in the United States was revoked by the state medical board of Hawaii.[40]"

 

He sure sounds like a peach! :thumb

01-22-2014 12:42 PM
Katie8681 You know Kathy, it seems to me that medicine being helpless to prevent, treat, or cure a disease doesn't mean that if your kid has that disease, you should run around letting whoever seems nicest inject them with experimental drugs.
01-22-2014 12:37 PM
Katie8681 It's quite a work up to be diagnosed with precocious puberty, Taxi. What studies did they do? Was your son seen by a pediatric endocrinologist?
01-22-2014 10:44 AM
chickabiddy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
 

 

The Geiers are a father-son team.  The father is the one with the medical degree, and was licensed to practice medicine in 11 states.  My understanding is that only the state of Maryland took action against him.

 

All states in which Mark Geier was licensed to practice medicine have either suspended or revoked his license.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Geier

01-22-2014 08:12 AM
Taximom5
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
 

 

The Geiers are a father-son team.  The father is the one with the medical degree, and was licensed to practice medicine in 11 states.  My understanding is that only the state of Maryland took action against him.  

According to Wikipedia, "The Geiers have been granted access to the Vaccine Safety Datalink records,[20] but the National Immunization Program found that "during the first visit the researchers conducted unapproved analysis on their datasets and on the second visit attempted to carry out unapproved analyses but did not complete this attempt."

So the National Immunization program gets to approve who does analysis, and what kind of analysis is done on the Vaccine Safety Datalink records?

 

Geeze, no wonder they went after the Geiers.

01-22-2014 06:50 AM
Taximom5

It's taking me a while to go through the order for summary suspension.  It looks like there is a lot more going on there than what they write, on both sides of the issue.  I'm only part way through, but it doesn't look like the parents were complaining; on the contrary, some (Lisa Sykes, for example) are crediting the Lupron for major helpful changes.  Clearly, many of these kids WERE appropriately diagnosed with precocious puberty, and I think it's equally clear that this IS a major problem for a subgroup of autistic kids.

 

There may or may not be major problems from the Geiers' end of things, too, but it's very difficult to discern the truth, even in court proceedings.


This smells WAY too similar to the Wakefield witch hunt,  Remember?  Two DECADES of doctors and researchers insisting that autistic children do not have intestinal problems?  Not just insisting that measles virus and MMR vaccine are unrelated to intestinal problems , but INSISTING THAT AUTISTIC CHILDREN DIDIN'T HAVE INTESTINAL PROBLEMS.

 

And we now know that that a significant subgroup have MAJOR intestinal problems that greatly contribute to their autistic symptoms.  There are even a few documented cases of celiac disease causing symptoms consistent with autism.

 

Don't you see the similarity?  It sure looks like any doctor who successfully identifies and attempts to treat a valid medical issue in subgroups of autistic children is witch-hunted by the same medical establishment who insisted that such children don't exist.

 

Yes, of course we should be troubled by reports of "chemical castration."  That's a very alarming term.  But we should look further to see what is really going on, and question the ethics and truthfulness on both sides.  "Chemical poisoning" is just as alarming a term, and it applies to those who have severe adverse reactions to vaccines and other medications.

 

As the parent of a child who was diagnosed with a vaccine-induced seizure, celiac disease, precocious puberty, and autism, I obviously have a very different perspective than you do.  

 

And like other such parents, I am very frustrated by people who know nothing whatsoever about children like mine, or their medical issues, but rush to judge the doctors who identify and attempt to treat those issues.

01-22-2014 06:40 AM
kathymuggle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

Your reference to Lupron being studied to treat Alzheimer's in a population of post menopausal women is relevant to giving it to prepubescent and pubescent autistic children how?
https://www.mbp.state.md.us/bpqapp/Orders/D2425004.271.PDF
Reference: the Maryland medical board order of suspension. The cases are really, really awful. I think if I had an autistic child I would feel worse! As it is, I'm a mother and a human being with an instinct to protect vulnerable people from exploitation. There was a terrible betrayal of trust there.

So no. I am not inclined to read their "study" with an open mind. They're just trying to keep a foot in their industry.

 

I am not going to go too deep into Geier - I have not bothered to read the links, beyond seeing that he was not liscensed to practice medicine.
 
I need to ask, though…when a parent turns to someone who is not licensed or has other controversial methods going on- why do they do it?  
 
I give science and medicine a D- when it comes to preventing, curing or even treating autism*. The whole thing is a shambles.   Is it any wonder people look elsewhere?
 
(oh, and pre-emptive caveat before someone says  "you just hate medicine and doctors!"  Nope.  Love antibiotics when used appropriately, love c-sections when used appropriately and if I get into a serious car accident, please bring me to a hospital.  There are things medicine does really well - autism is not one of them) 
01-21-2014 07:48 PM
Katie8681 I think only children with carefully diagnosed cases of precocious puberty should be treated with Lupron after informed consent of its risks and benefits. Call me whacky.
01-21-2014 07:46 PM
Katie8681 Your reference to Lupron being studied to treat Alzheimer's in a population of post menopausal women is relevant to giving it to prepubescent and pubescent autistic children how?
https://www.mbp.state.md.us/bpqapp/Orders/D2425004.271.PDF
Reference: the Maryland medical board order of suspension. The cases are really, really awful. I think if I had an autistic child I would feel worse! As it is, I'm a mother and a human being with an instinct to protect vulnerable people from exploitation. There was a terrible betrayal of trust there.

So no. I am not inclined to read their "study" with an open mind. They're just trying to keep a foot in their industry.
01-21-2014 12:57 PM
Taximom5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

What do people have to do to piss off the parents of autistic parents? As long as someone is "supportive" they seem to have carte blanche to shoot kids up with experimental protocols. Just as long as it's not FDA approved I guess. Because let's be honest, they were not using Lupron to treat precocious puberty, they were using it as a treatment for AUTISM and committing insurance fraud.

 

Citation needed. 

 

You don't have an autistic child, do you?  I ask because you seem to believe that autistic children don't deserve the same treatment for their medical issues as non-autistic children.  If a non-autistic child were treated for precocious puberty with Lupron, it apparently wouldn't bother you in the least.  But give an autistic child Lupron, which would not only address the precocious puberty but might also address seizures and autism symptoms, and you are screaming "chemical castration! insurance fraud!"

 

I think it's horrible to deny autistic children's medical symptoms and the necessary treatments.

 

Meanwhile, in Madrid, they've studied using Lupron to treat women with Alzheimer's, with promising results. 

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/47580.php

01-21-2014 12:16 PM
Katie8681 What do people have to do to piss off the parents of autistic parents? As long as someone is "supportive" they seem to have carte blanche to shoot kids up with experimental protocols. Just as long as it's not FDA approved I guess. Because let's be honest, they were not using Lupron to treat precocious puberty, they were using it as a treatment for AUTISM and committing insurance fraud.
01-20-2014 07:34 PM
Mirzam
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
 
 

Are you sure the Geiers "created" the link between autism and precocious puberty? Or did they just happen to actually listen to all the parents who were reporting it?  Remember, many of these children experienced a drastic uptick or even first onset of seizures at puberty, in addition to the difficulties you recognize, of aggression and sexual behaviors that are exponentially more difficult to manage with autism.

 

I don't think the issue has been studied much beyond the Geiers work, but they certainly didn't create it. There was some research done in Russia in 1975, by Mnukhin, S.S and Isaev, D. N. in which they found precocious puberty in autistics., but I don't have the study. Many parents of autistic children also describe their children as hyper-sexed.

 

Kanner mentioned this hyper-sexuality, one of his first cases, at age five, "often masturbated with complete abandon".

01-20-2014 06:32 PM
Taximom5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

It seems that a link between autism and precocious puberty was basically created by the Geiers, and they also played fast and loose with that diagnosis. They diagnosed 9 year old boys with precocious puberty.

I can believe that autism makes puberty even more difficult than it already is. I know especially for boys there are more issues with aggression with that increase of testosterone. I'm sure there are autistic children with precocious puberty. But Lupron as a way to help, what, chelate mercury, to treat autism? Nah. If I'm not seeing the studies, please feel free to link.

ONSET of puberty before age 9 IS considered precocious.  I'm not sure that "fast and loose"is accurate.  A 9-year-old boy with voice change and full pubic hair does alarm most pediatricians enough to send the boy for bone age density scan.  We were even sent to a pediatric endocrinologist, who then sent us to a geneticist.

 

Are you sure the Geiers "created" the link between autism and precocious puberty? Or did they just happen to actually listen to all the parents who were reporting it?  Remember, many of these children experienced a drastic uptick or even first onset of seizures at puberty, in addition to the difficulties you recognize, of aggression and sexual behaviors that are exponentially more difficult to manage with autism.

01-20-2014 04:46 PM
Katie8681 It seems that a link between autism and precocious puberty was basically created by the Geiers, and they also played fast and loose with that diagnosis. They diagnosed 9 year old boys with precocious puberty.

I can believe that autism makes puberty even more difficult than it already is. I know especially for boys there are more issues with aggression with that increase of testosterone. I'm sure there are autistic children with precocious puberty. But Lupron as a way to help, what, chelate mercury, to treat autism? Nah. If I'm not seeing the studies, please feel free to link.
01-20-2014 01:28 PM
Taximom5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post
 

That's interesting, but although the headline of the coffee article was misleading (it should have read "Dehydration not shown to occur in a group of moderate coffee drinkers when compared to a control group with equal water consumption" maybe?), we are discussing the article "A two-phase study evaluating the relationship between Thimerosal-containing vaccine administration and the risk for an autism spectrum disorder diagnosis in the United States".

 

Seems to me that special attention should be paid to authorship of articles that reach conclusions opposite to the current state of the science. Just doing some more reading on the Geiers and I am really aghast... Did you see that Dr Geier lost his license to practice medicine in Illinois, Missouri, and Maryland because he and his son opened clinics in which they gave autistic children series of high-dose Lupron injections, for SIX THOUSAND DOLLARS PER MONTH? These men are charlatans and they made a lot of money from the blood and pointless suffering of autistic children. Please read this complaint and tell me it doesn't turn your stomach and make you think, hmm, maybe their research is simply not trustworthy.

 

http://www.casewatch.org/board/med/geier/d_geier_charges.pdf

 

I see Janet Kern works at the Geiers' "Institute of Chronic Illnesses" (address is the Geier home). She's been a close associate for years. Was very much into the business of chemically castrating autistic children. Nice.

 

Guys, these people are not your friends.

 

I think it's far, far more complicated than you realize.  For many autistic children, there are major issues with testosterone, as early as 5 years old, with those issues severely worsening at puberty. These issues include seizures.  

It doesn't take much to see that there may be a link between testosterone and autism; remember that boys are 4 times more likely to have autism than girls (interestingly, this is the same male/female ratio we see with mercury poisoning), and there is a subgroup of autistic children who have seizure disorders.  There is also a subgroup of autistic children who experience precocious puberty, AND LUPRON IS INDICATED AS A TREATMENT FOR PRECOCIOUS PUBERTY: http://www.lupron.com

 

There are studies indicating a benefit to prescribing hormone inhibitors for seizures.

 

The Geiers did some good research on this:  http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/04/mercury-testost.html

 

We know the pharmaceutical industry (and the medical industry as well) is capable of witch hunts, and often tries to get medical licenses revoked.  Sometimes there is good reason to do so; sometimes, it's when a doctor gets too close to an uncomfortable truth.  

 

I don't know enough about the Geier's case to be sure either way; but I do know of autism families whose sons improved enormously on Lupron.  I know of others whose sons did not improve at all; they were not pressured into continuing treatment, and they are still fully supportive of the Geiers.

 

Here is what is probably a very different account of the Geiers than what you have previously read:  http://www.bolenreport.com/Mark%20Geier/attack%20on%20geiers.htm 

 

According to that, they only prescribed Lupron after lab testing indicated a medical reason to do so, and payment for both the testing and Lupron went directly to the lab and to pharmacies, not to the Geiers themselves.  Please read the whole article.

 

I am concerned that you're repeating deliberate (on the part of the Let's-Bash-Vaccine-Critics) fear-mongering when you talk about "chemically castrating autistic children."  If you're going to go there, shouldn't you be consistent, and accuse all doctors who treat premature puberty with Lupron of "chemical castration?"

 

As far as the Geiers are concerned, I have no way of knowing where the truth lies. Neither do you.

 

From my perspective, though--my son, who was diagnosed with autism, did indeed experience precocious puberty.  We chose not to do ANY medications--not ADD/ADHD drugs (which were VERY aggressively pushed on us), not chelation, not homeopathy, not Lupron, and no further vaccinations.  We felt that any of the above, with his complicated medical history, would have been experimental at best. We did not do any naturopathic treatments, either.

But I would totally understand why parents of an autistic boy who was experiencing seizures and precocious puberty, might want to try Lupron as a treatment.

01-20-2014 12:45 PM
teacozy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
 

VAERS is NOT okay as a reporting system, as only a fraction of adverse reactions get reported.

 

Overreporting is also a problem.  

 

"Overreporting. Adverse events may be included in the VAERS database that are not accurate descriptions of the event that occurred, and erroneous diagnoses may be reported. For example, a case of simple fainting after vaccination may be incorrectly reported as anaphylaxis, a potentially life-threatening condition.

Overreporting may also result from reports that describe adverse events for which a definitive diagnosis has not yet been reached. For example, if the reporter writes on the reporting form a diagnosis of "rule out meningitis", that VAERS report will be computer coded as meningitis. Unless specific follow-up is received indicating that meningitis was ruled out, the meningitis coding term will remain associated with the computerized VAERS report.

Adverse Event Incidence And Trends. As a result of the overreporting and underreporting issues described above, drawing conclusions from VAERS data about how many adverse events occurred in the United States must be done extremely carefully. Similarly, because the factors affecting overreporting and underreporting may vary over time, drawing conclusion from observations of changes, or lack of changes, in the frequency of adverse events in VAERS over time (trends) may be hazardous. In addition, numbers of adverse events reported to VAERS will at least partially reflect the number of doses of vaccine administered. For example, VAERS reports reflect the current trend of a decline in usage of whole-cell pertussis-containing vaccines and a simultaneous increase in the use of acellular pertussis vaccines; however, it would be incorrect to draw conclusions about the relative safety of these vaccines from such trend data. Finally, the number of doses of vaccine administered according to age is not part of the VAERS database, and therefore actual rates of adverse events are not strictly calculable."

 

http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/VAERS.htm

01-20-2014 12:37 PM
Taximom5
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post
 

 

VAERS is okay as a reporting system, but not great as a database for a research paper since there is no way to prove that the incidents reported were actually caused by the vaccines.

VAERS is NOT okay as a reporting system, as only a fraction of adverse reactions get reported.

01-20-2014 11:53 AM
Katie8681

That's interesting, but although the headline of the coffee article was misleading (it should have read "Dehydration not shown to occur in a group of moderate coffee drinkers when compared to a control group with equal water consumption" maybe?), we are discussing the article "A two-phase study evaluating the relationship between Thimerosal-containing vaccine administration and the risk for an autism spectrum disorder diagnosis in the United States".

 

Seems to me that special attention should be paid to authorship of articles that reach conclusions opposite to the current state of the science. Just doing some more reading on the Geiers and I am really aghast... Did you see that Dr Geier lost his license to practice medicine in Illinois, Missouri, and Maryland because he and his son opened clinics in which they gave autistic children series of high-dose Lupron injections, for SIX THOUSAND DOLLARS PER MONTH? These men are charlatans and they made a lot of money from the blood and pointless suffering of autistic children. Please read this complaint and tell me it doesn't turn your stomach and make you think, hmm, maybe their research is simply not trustworthy.

 

http://www.casewatch.org/board/med/geier/d_geier_charges.pdf

 

I see Janet Kern works at the Geiers' "Institute of Chronic Illnesses" (address is the Geier home). She's been a close associate for years. Was very much into the business of chemically castrating autistic children. Nice.

 

Guys, these people are not your friends.

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