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07-27-2014 02:49 PM
Tigerle Yes, i am having that issue as well. Back in the day, there was no testing where I lived and the concept of gifted ness did not even appear to exist. There was only a very reluctant grade skip and the constant refrain of "you're/she's not that able" (note: never "not that special", which no one in my family ever claimed for me and which is obviously a debatable concept, always the public doubting of ability, flying in the face of the obvious). This kind of resentment has followed me into grad school and eve n my profession - she does not look/act as if she should be this able,so therefore she can't be. DS, so far, appears to have it easier; there may have been misogyny at work there, too. He also looks the part better than I do, handsome, tall, thin,wire frame glasses, likes to dress in lands end swirl hoodies and dark blue pants I get for him on sale, and altogether embodies the little distracted professor/engineer type to perfection, at least as long as he keeps the overexcitabilities in check, which I am told he mostly does in school. I was the pudgy girl with the ugly plastic frames and the unfashionable clothes and the untidy braid (can you tell I harbour some resentment against my parents for being SO oblivious to how much this kind of stuff hurts kids who already have to struggle so much for peer acceptance?) with the big mouth and the bad attitude. (I still got notes in my report cards how I must make up for it all by working so hard at home. Snort.)

Edited to add that I think this is the reason I talked about impostor syndrome in this thread initially - for myself due to this history, and for DS1 due to the fact that to us, he mostly shows his 2e side...
07-22-2014 05:15 PM
JollyGG I promise that I will go back and read all the responses because I think this is a really great discussion.

I know one thing that made learning my kids actual IQ scores really confusing for me was facing some truths about my own giftedness growing up. I'll admit the inner discussion had me saying "I think he's above average or perhaps even moderately gifted. He's like me and I'm above average, but not brilliant or anything." This whole journey with my eldest has made me face that I wasn't identified as gifted. As I've learned more about giftedness I have begun to suspect that I underachieved on the test I took 30 years ago in 2nd grade for whatever reason. I've had to face that my son is brilliant and he might very well still be like me.
07-22-2014 08:55 AM
Tigerle
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamMom View Post
2. This is a little about our situation, but I'm trying to teach my son how to turn inward thoughts into positive, outward actions- whether it be physical activity, intellectual or creative pursuits. It helps keep rigidity, anxiety, and perfectionism in check. An active mind is great as long as it doesn't cause paralysis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamMom View Post
2. This is a little about our situation, but I'm trying to teach my son how to turn inward thoughts into positive, outward actions- whether it be physical activity, intellectual or creative pursuits. It helps keep rigidity, anxiety, and perfectionism in check. An active mind is great as long as it doesn't cause paralysis.
This is a very interesting comment. It sounds like what i am trying to do, but it's hard. Do you have examples of what works for you?

I wish I could enter DS1 for DYS, but we are not in the US, so that's that. I have lurked on the forums a bit, though, and will probably join, there are a number non-US parents posting there I've noticed, so at least I can take advantage of the wealth of information on offer. The demographics and parenting philosophies appear somewhat different from MDC, but there appear to be more people there navigating brick-and-mortar schooling with HG+ kids, in various systems, so that might be helpful. While systems do differ in what they have to offer structurally for gifted kids, I've noticed that teacher attitudes appear to be very similar the world over!

Maybe, if DS 1 does go abroad as an exchange student at some point, I could ask for a host family in Reno and he'd be eligible for the academy
07-20-2014 11:16 AM
CamMom I remember having a similar reaction when we received my son's IQ test. I liked the comment about "settling." After several months of looking for resources, forums, and information I filed the information away as useful and got on with parenting my child. I did learn several things in this gifted journey:

1. I am still dealing with the same behaviors and these behaviors still need to be addressed with IQ being one part of the puzzle
2. This is a little about our situation, but I'm trying to teach my son how to turn inward thoughts into positive, outward actions- whether it be physical activity, intellectual or creative pursuits. It helps keep rigidity, anxiety, and perfectionism in check. An active mind is great as long as it doesn't cause paralysis.
3. A suitable educational environment is key to a happy kid. Mine goes to a private school where he is with other kids, but works more independently (Montessori). For him (not everyone), it's a perfect environment
4. Follow interests- you probably do this, but gifted kids tend to develop interests and if nurtured, expertise and confidence in those areas of interest. We just "go with it."

This year, I got up the nerve to take DS in for an achievement test primarily to see if IQ/ achievement matched well. In DS's case it did- so he has joined the Davidson Young Scholars program where we may speak with a consultant about educational needs or emotional needs. We use their general website, but they also have a lot of member seminars that we're looking forward to. Your DS's IQ comfortably high enough for Davidson- you could follow it up with an approved achievement test or a portfolio to access Davidson's free services.
07-15-2014 01:12 PM
Linda on the move I'm really confused about the title of this thread and how it relates to the content.

My only advice at this point:

1. Quit worrying so much about the future. Honestly, it's a complete waste of your time and energy. Nothing that my kids are currently doing (they are 16 and 17) I would have guessed or planned for when they were 8. I couldn't have even guessed what they are doing now 3 years ago.

2. Don't get to hung up on what any expert tells you. No matter how awesome their credentials.

Your kid is doing fine in school, and you have a plan for the next TWO years that you are happy with.
07-15-2014 12:26 PM
Tigerle And things will be getting really interesting with ds2, if I end up having an HG+ or so kid with a speech delay in a wheelchair, which is not so unlikely...
07-15-2014 12:21 PM
Tigerle
Quote:
Originally Posted by moominmamma View Post

I just need to remind myself to keep my feet on the ground, firmly planted in this year, my arm around the shoulder of the kid I have right now.
Have I told you how much I like this sentence?
07-15-2014 12:16 PM
Tigerle It's just what the tester impressed on me - forget the regular college prep track in the town and city high schools, by fifth grade he'll need the gifted program, and he may even end up needing it by forth grade, so we should consider another grade skip. And possibly the state's boarding school for the gifted by seventh. Uh, no way, methinks....
Though I remember daydreaming my way through college prep track even at a time when these schools educated a very different cohort of students according to rather higher standards, in a classroom which by a fluke happened to congregate high achievers even within the track. (And I would have LOVED to go off to gifted boarding school). This tester has decades of experience and this stellar reputation, so her professional opinion is hard to shrug off.
I know it's hard to understand without knowing our rigid tracking system, and that's why I keep adding one clarification (I hope!) after the other. I always try to keep my threads from turning into comparative education systems 101 from the start (fascinating though I find the field, but will not presume this goes for everyone).

I do hope and expect that by tenth grade or so we're sorted. Ideally I'd like him to go abroad for a year, and for junior/senior year there's no gifted program anyway. Well, there is the boarding school, which adds more grades for junior year, but by that time he'll make his own choices.
It is from third through ninth which concerns me. But you are right, I shouldn't borrow trouble, and we aren't doing so bad so far.
07-15-2014 08:38 AM
moominmamma
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerle View Post
But I have to come to terms with future options being much narrower than I thought!
I'm not understanding this. How does a highly exceptional IQ disqualify him from certain options?

If it makes you feel any better I've found that intellectual mismatches get easier to bridge as kids get older because they get much more skilled at making connections with others, initiating their own accommodations and coping emotionally with their own differences. At 6 my eldest was so anxious and sensitive, so stubborn and impossible to redirect, was reading Tolkien, multiplying decimals and playing violin concertos, was completely non-verbal in group environments due to anxiety: imagine what a 1st grade class would have been like for her. And yet by 10th grade she was able to slot into a regular high school English class, socialize and collaborate and challenge herself. Now admittedly we were doing some pretty creative things with her extra-curricularly, but she coped fine with regular school, an option which was simply impossible for me to imagine when she was younger.

So I think if you've done well so far your options are unlikely to narrow. Obviously I don't know your education system intimately, but I do know that these crazy-sensitive kids' coping mechanisms and emotional resilience improve vastly as they get older so that environments that used to be horribly mismatched become workable.

Miranda
07-15-2014 05:42 AM
Tigerle
Quote:
Originally Posted by moominmamma View Post
"Bronte-like academy of four..." Lol! When my eldest was your ds's age I was chasing a preschooler and an exceedingly rambunctious 5-year-old, had no vehicle during the day, and lived 3 miles up a mountain and had another baby on the way. I can't imagine anything further from a Brontë-like academy! Please don't idealize the choices other make, because it will only encourage you put more pressure on yourself.

Miranda

How can i help it? Ever read your own blog? And you have to admit that the geographical isolation you describe is as Bronteish as anything.

Seriously, I am not idealizing your choices, just pointing out that at least you had them, or specifically you had the choice to keep your children out of formal education until you felt they were resilient enough to thrive by the high school level, and pick your children's social exposure from an admittedly very limited selection. I do not have that choice.
Admittedly, by law I might have kept my oldest out of formal education until first grade, but it would have made the shock of transition much worse, deprived him of valuable social training time and taken away the choice of acceleration by early entry away from us, as no school would have admitted him without completing an early K program in preschool. All I have are choices for extracurriculars and some influence on kids he meets, and it is all in the context of the time and energy constraints dictated by formal schooling. SO MUCH energy goes into helping him cope with his over excitabilities or high sensitivity or whatever you want to call it -the way he experiences and copes with the world, inextricably linked to his outlier IQ. This is what I am talking about. It does not make him extra special. But I do think the difference in his needs in that respect as compared to atypical child is, well, formidable.

I do not even think I would have wanted to homeschool. Nor would I have any problem with mandatory formal schooling per se, if only it were also mandatory to meet children's needs accordingly. It is not. There are three tracks with lockstep teaching and the occasional gifted program, with gifted programs always under fire for being elitist and even college prep track increasingly under political fire for not allowing the slower kids to learn at their own pace. If the needs of the advanced students to learn at *their* pace come up in discussion, it is always in terms of allowing them "deeper" learning by tutoring the slower kids.
I think we have been very very lucky so far in returns of meeting ds1 s needs. And I am grateful. But I have to come to terms with future options being much narrower than I thought!
07-14-2014 10:04 PM
moominmamma
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerle View Post
But you did not even have to bother finding one, being able to keep your kids out of school until they were teenagers, creating your own little Bronte-like academy of four...
"Bronte-like academy of four..." Lol! When my eldest was your ds's age I was chasing a preschooler and an exceedingly rambunctious 5-year-old, had no vehicle during the day, and lived 3 miles up a mountain and had another baby on the way. I can't imagine anything further from a Brontë-like academy! Please don't idealize the choices other make, because it will only encourage you put more pressure on yourself.

Miranda
07-14-2014 04:14 PM
Tigerle
Quote:
Originally Posted by joensally View Post

My goal with my son, who is quirkier, less socially savvy and less flexible than my daughter, has been to dance along the line of encouraging him to be the fabulous individual he is, while also encouraging him to adapt to his everyday world. Because the world in general doesn't care about his quirks, and won't excuse them because he's smart. Not every human with an IQ over 150 is going to achieve extraordinary things that lead to others admiring from a distance, which seems lonely to me anyway. I'm doing my best to coach him in adaptive skills so that when he's an adult he can choose if brilliant quirkiness or brilliant social integration is what he'd prefer. I don't think that they are always stark polarities, but can end up being if everyone believes that smart=extraordinary in all ways, or smarts at the costs of other skills/abilities.

I actively seek out the wonder in people, and highlight it to my kids and encourage them to do so as well. It helps to feel more "normal" when you realize that none of us really are, and we've all got something pretty great going on. Sounds trite, but it improves the quality of my lived experience.
Maybe I am just exhausted with trying to do all that. Ds2 has been wanting to nurse all night ever since his latest surgery and is only slowly settling into sleeping through the night again, there is end of year stuff going on all the time with all three and DH too of course, being a teacher (schools out on Aug 1st only) and I just don't want to think about what it might entail if the school situation were to suddenly unravel next year, socially or academically. I know I will have to speak to next years teachers soon, to find out about their creative needs-meeting readiness!
07-14-2014 03:59 PM
Tigerle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
I don't look at this the same way you do.

First, I don't find the different between 130 and 106 to be "formidable." I think that a lot of people look at the world in different ways due to a wide variety of reasons. (My DDs look at the world differently than a lot of their peers because they've lived all over and had non-traditional educations -- its honestly more of a factor for them than IQ. My DD with autism experiences the world in a completely different way than people who aren't on the spectrum.) Cognition is just one part of who we are. Every one is having a slightly different experience.

You used the word "impostor syndrome" in your title for the thread, and I think this relates to why. Part of you believes that IQ makes a person more special than others, and part of you knows that is BS.

you are using the phrase "more special" as if I had attached any moral significance to how my child processes the world. But there is another dimension I am talking about, because ds1 is in many ways my neediest child, his needs are in some ways more exhausting than those of my officially special needs child ds2, who, when not recovering from recent surgery, is very easygoing and happy. For years, ds1 has been completely unable to self regulate without using and abusing my body. The times when any overstimulation sent him into aggressive sensory seeking and ear splitting tantrums were socially isolating. There were times when he needed two hours of support just to fall asleep, every night. He still has anxiety attacks mostly at night, and needs help on waking up to regulate his moods so he can face the day. He had crippling fears about death and dying before he was three, with nightly meltdowns for weeks. He needs his diet monitored at all times to make sure he has enough fat and proteins so he won't crash with hypoglycemia as he used to. Heck, he needs to be monitored to just EAT, otherwise he would discourse on his current topic of interest without ever putting any food but dessert in his mouth. I need to be on top of supplements, of his sensory diet...we've tried out four swim classes over two years, none of them worked, as no teacher managed to help him overcome his fears of putting his head under water. His intellectual needs are completely overshadowed by all these primal needs he must have met just to get through the day - or so it seems.


What do you mean by "tolerance?" If you mean that you longer see the need to work toward solutions or for him to develop self control, then I don't see it as a good thing. No one else is going to cut him slack on meltdowns because he is so, so smart. Giving him the message that he gets a pass on behavoiors due to his intelligence will only hurt him in the long run.

believe me, I know. It often feels we work on nothing else, and nothing we do gives him the message that intelligence counts for more than how you treat other human beings. I rather wish we had more time and energy for stuff where he can flex his brain muscles and enjoy how well they work, but we don't.
I should probably have used patience rather than tolerance. I have been thinking about what the tester explained to me about these kids needs for rules to order the world by, and how they approach social situations accordingly. Case in point: he was playing on the iPad, ds2 wanted to look, pushed and annoyed him and he yelled at his little brother and hit him. Ds2 started crying, and I yelled at him for hitting ds2 right on his fresh surgical scar. Ds1 started the high pitched shriek that drives DH bonkers and ran out of the room to stop having to listen, which drives me bonkers. I stopped and thought, reframed his actions as his inability to process that he'd just broken such an important rule and called him back to help me comfort his little brother, to show him he did still love him and did not mean to hurt, he came back crying, but was ready to hug and kiss his brother, and when I suggested he offer some of the chocolate he had brought from the last birthday party to help ds2 stop crying, he ran off with alacrity to fetch it and shared the whole bar.
Similarly, when he seems to need to make himself and others miserable with offloading all his anxieties and stress on us, I stop and try to understand by which circuits his mind may have arrived at where he is then. To help him unravel and sort out his thoughts. It is amateurish CBT I am often doing, and I have been wondering for a while whether at some point he needs to see a professional, and how to find one who gets him. Not something I worry any less about these days.


One of the ways we humans are similar is that we want and need to have other people in our lives. Helping your son develop the skills to be successful with that is part of what you need to work on with him.
My proudest moments are when I watch him integrate himself happily into a group of kids (who will have to tolerate the constant running commentary of things that fascinate him in this world) and they all run off to play. He has come such a long way from running away and hiding from other kids his age.
07-14-2014 03:14 PM
Tigerle
Quote:
Originally Posted by moominmamma View Post
From an observational standpoint don't think there's much practical difference between saying "he's a one in a hundred exception" and "he's a one in ten thousand exception." Practically speaking, in either case he's going to end up in environments where there are no other kids at his level and all that really matters is not the degree to which he is an exception but what is being done to meet his needs.
This sounds true in theory, but in practice I find it is not that hard to find an environment where a child in the 98th percentile will find others close to or at their level. Depending on the level of segregation in a society, in a country's schools, on the demographics of your neighbourhood, your friends, the school you happen to send your child to, as long as you are surrounded by families with high SES, there will be a critical mass of kids in that percentile skewing the expectations. In fact, I think that this is the reason the catholic elementary we picked mostly works for ds1 at this point, both socially and academically - we thought that the schools reputation for standards so high that kids think college prep track in middle school is a breeze afterwards might attract a sufficient number of kids in what we then thought was his ballpark. And it did, and apparently his class happens to work in a level that is unusual even for this school, or so more experienced parents tell me. Apart from a few weeks at the beginning of the year, when he would have meltdowns telling me he just couldn't slow himself down to be as slow as the rest of the class, he is frequently learning, and he is mostly engaged. Griping about stultifying work ,but still happy to go. And he has kids he clicks with, he is even part of a little group if not exactly at the center, he has play dates that work, he gets invited to birthday parties. So, it appears we lucked out in finding a classroom that might have been considered a gifted or at least a high achievers program anywhere else and that happens to be a good fit. Because there is almost nothing done to meet his needs. Extra worksheets on offer for when he is done with the regular work everyone else is doing is about the extent of it. The public school in our village, where most people have never moved further in their lives than a couple miles and never at all in their mind sets, might have been a disaster, as indeed it appears to prove for this boy we know who was entered a year early but still finds no one he clicks with and who the teacher thinks should accelerated yet another year to have his needs met, the usual extra-worksheet thing not working that well for him either.

I dunno, I live in a village of 600 hours and hours from the nearest gifted program, so I was never under any illusion that my kids would somehow find a group of kids just like themselves or teachers who had taught others just like them in the past, and maybe that allowed me to be more at peace with their outlier status sooner.
But you did not even have to bother finding one, being able to keep your kids out of school until they were teenagers, creating your own little Bronte-like academy of four...it is an option I do not have, pure and simple, I am forced to rely on institutions to be creative and willing to meet the needs of ONE, in an identitarian rather than a libertarian culture. I actually hear that the local gifted program, long may it last, is serving quite a few HG+ and very quirky kids, as parents with MG kids who achieve well aren't that bothered, they'd rather have their kids breeze through regular college prep track.
But even if this is the first time you've had to face the reality that congregation is not going to be the perfect answer, you just need to keep doing what you've been doing all along: focusing on his current needs in his current environment.

Miranda
I'm trying. Thank you.
07-10-2014 01:23 PM
joensally I would totally echo Linda and moominmamma.

I think a big part of what you're internally experiencing is the process of settling into this information. I think that through most of parenting, we go along without explicit definitional clarity about our kid relative to others. Maybe they're the best (or worst!) speller, or free thrower, or whatever, but most of the time we're just raising our kid. Then you get this report that puts a number and category on your kid, and you have to fit that into your perspective. It's a process.

My goal with my son, who is quirkier, less socially savvy and less flexible than my daughter, has been to dance along the line of encouraging him to be the fabulous individual he is, while also encouraging him to adapt to his everyday world. Because the world in general doesn't care about his quirks, and won't excuse them because he's smart. Not every human with an IQ over 150 is going to achieve extraordinary things that lead to others admiring from a distance, which seems lonely to me anyway. I'm doing my best to coach him in adaptive skills so that when he's an adult he can choose if brilliant quirkiness or brilliant social integration is what he'd prefer. I don't think that they are always stark polarities, but can end up being if everyone believes that smart=extraordinary in all ways, or smarts at the costs of other skills/abilities.

I actively seek out the wonder in people, and highlight it to my kids and encourage them to do so as well. It helps to feel more "normal" when you realize that none of us really are, and we've all got something pretty great going on. Sounds trite, but it improves the quality of my lived experience.
07-10-2014 09:37 AM
moominmamma
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda on the move View Post
I think that a lot of people look at the world in different ways due to a wide variety of reasons.
I completely agree with this. I am eternally grateful to fate that I began teaching violin to a number of young children at about the same time I started noticing my own kids' intellectual gifts. Those kids I taught -- wow! -- so different from each other, so quirky, so bright in weird ways, so challenging and so challenged by their wiring and their environments. I'm not sure whether my area attracts square pegs: I'm sure there's an element of that. But kids are just very different from 'average,' almost all of them. My own kids are outliers in several respects but so many kids are outliers in their own ways -- temperament, living situation, learning styles, sensory processing, ethical and social maturity, there are asynchronicities in so many flavours and they can have really profound effects on the child's perception of the world and of himself. I try to keep the big picture in mind. Just because I have some large z-score measurement to help describe my child's particular differentness doesn't make it more formidable than the differences of my quirky-as-all-heck little violin students.

Miranda
07-10-2014 06:03 AM
Linda on the move
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerle View Post
I realize that the 24 points difference between a score of 154 and 130 is even more formidable than, say, the difference between a score of 130 and 106. And that my kid experiences the world truly in a fundamentally different way than about 99,9 % of his age mates.
I don't look at this the same way you do.

First, I don't find the different between 130 and 106 to be "formidable." I think that a lot of people look at the world in different ways due to a wide variety of reasons. (My DDs look at the world differently than a lot of their peers because they've lived all over and had non-traditional educations -- its honestly more of a factor for them than IQ. My DD with autism experiences the world in a completely different way than people who aren't on the spectrum.) Cognition is just one part of who we are. Every one is having a slightly different experience.

You used the word "impostor syndrome" in your title for the thread, and I think this relates to why. Part of you believes that IQ makes a person more special than others, and part of you knows that is BS.

Quote:
Yes, I do look at him differently and am disturbed by that. I suppose in that I have more tolerance now for his tics and sensitivities and meltdowns, I suppose that is a good thing, but I still don't like it. And I feel that I should have been able to find that understanding in myself, without having to be told a number, having read so much about it all, but never thinking it applied to my kid up to this extent.
What do you mean by "tolerance?" If you mean that you longer see the need to work toward solutions or for him to develop self control, then I don't see it as a good thing. No one else is going to cut him slack on meltdowns because he is so, so smart. Giving him the message that he gets a pass on behavoiors due to his intelligence will only hurt him in the long run.

One of the ways we humans are similar is that we want and need to have other people in our lives. Helping your son develop the skills to be successful with that is part of what you need to work on with him.
07-07-2014 08:40 AM
moominmamma From an observational standpoint don't think there's much practical difference between saying "he's a one in a hundred exception" and "he's a one in ten thousand exception." Practically speaking, in either case he's going to end up in environments where there are no other kids at his level and all that really matters is not the degree to which he is an exception but what is being done to meet his needs.

I dunno, I live in a village of 600 hours and hours from the nearest gifted program, so I was never under any illusion that my kids would somehow find a group of kids just like themselves or teachers who had taught others just like them in the past, and maybe that allowed me to be more at peace with their outlier status sooner. But even if this is the first time you've had to face the reality that congregation is not going to be the perfect answer, you just need to keep doing what you've been doing all along: focusing on his current needs in his current environment. My eldest's IQ was measured somewhere around 151 (when she was 14 and likely hit a bunch of ceilings -- we didn't get the report and didn't care enough to ask) and she was basically happy and well-served at a rural public high school of less than 50 kids where you can imagine she was off-the-map different ... because we just focused on whatever creative means were necessary to meet her needs.

Miranda
07-07-2014 08:35 AM
pranava Thanks for sharing, Tigerle! I don't have any advice or insight, but I can definitely relate. DS and I are on a similar track, but a bit behind you - DS is about to enter Kindergarten and will be tested for ASD in 1 month. Hearing your story and thought processes is very helpful! Seems like you may just need some time to process the past in a different light. Glad you got some clarification on your situation.
07-07-2014 05:47 AM
Tigerle Thank you Linda and Miranda!
I think my problem is rather that I am looking back right now - of course I have known for a long time that he was well above average (heck I've been hanging out in this forum for five years or more) and among ourselves, I mean DH and I, and a couple of safe friends and relatives, we have referred to him as gifted for almost as long.

However, in my head, I had him firmly in the MG ballpark up to now. in fact, on the way to the consultation, carpooling with the friend I mentioned who had her son tested as well, I was worried that while he was sure to test very well on the PR stuff, some of the verbal subtests might depress his score below the cutoff of 130 demanded by the school, due to his sheltered upbringing (not for religious or ideological reasons, but due to his high sensitivity - we do not watch Tv, he stays away from more streetwise classmates and self censors his reading).

With the kids listeningt o music in the back, we even joked about that a while a kid with an iq in the 130s (where I thought DS1 was at) or in the 140s (where we knew her son was at having been tested as a preschooler) was most likely going to be okay, that no matter how hard it was raising them there was even more joy to be found in doing so, but who'd want to raise a kid in the 150s and above, and have to deal with the schooling hassles that were sure to come up? Yeah right, shame on us, I've been properly put in my place I assure you! And yes I realize that the ballpark is probably correct, I actually looked up the older norms and realize I misunderstood the tester and 147 was actually the ceiling on those, and having ceilinged on a number of subtests I realize the score might well be even higher than the 154 he scored at now. So, we are in the EG/PG ballpark now, and having done my homework formerly, I realize that the 24 points difference between a score of 154 and 130 is even more formidable than, say, the difference between a score of 130 and 106. And that my kid experiences the world truly in a fundamentally different way than about 99,9 % of his age mates.

Yes, I do look at him differently and am disturbed by that. I suppose in that I have more tolerance now for his tics and sensitivities and meltdowns, I suppose that is a good thing, but I still don't like it. And I feel that I should have been able to find that understanding in myself, without having to be told a number, having read so much about it all, but never thinking it applied to my kid up to this extent.

I am thinking back to the ASD testing (Linda, I am particularly recalling some very kind supportive posts from you based on your own experiences coming to terms with an ASD diagnosis) and how the report at the time stated that he scored "average" in the developmental testing, never even bothering to mention or in any way interpreting the gap between his low average to average socio-emotional and gross motor test results and the like and the ceiling scores on most of his cognitive stuff, and how, after having to pull back from their confidence in the ASD diagnosis, they tried to guilt us into blaming all his difficulties on our parenting. I did think at the time that giftedness must at least play a major part and I ought to have approached the situation from that angle in the first place or at least continued to explore it, but he was only four and things got so much better with improving his sensory diet and adding supplements, I felt I could not drag him yet to another round of testing. Also, I figured I'd be hard pressed to find a psychologist who knew more about the matter than I could find out for myself in places like this. Once bitten, twice shy...and then DS2 was diagnosed with spina bifida in utero and we went into survival mode for a while. I am so glad now that needing the scores this year forced the issue and that the tester was so knowledgeable and supportive.

I am thinking back on the day care teachers furtive look as she whispered to me that she really did think he might be above average in intelligence, on the doubtful tones of educators mumbling that he clearly

-sorry had to get off my train -

was talented, might be even gifted but..., when discussing acceleration, his first grade teacher who really liked him and enjoyed him but did feel she needed to tell me that he was not her fastest student, that he did not want to go to the third grade classroom alone to do more interesting stuff even though she offered (duh!), that even though he appeared to be the most well rounded she had a number of kids who were just as advanced as he was in various subjects ("great!" I said, "you could form little high ablity groups and let them do more interesting stuff together!"...double duh...!), the scepticism of most friends, relatives, aquaintances and colleagues whenever the subject of giftedness, usually not initiated by me, came up....

...is it any wonder I kept thinking, well he might be above 130, or maybe just below, but not something that need affect his life or his schooling in a really profound way...
...and that I vaccillate from thinking I failed my kid in some profound way up to now not really understading what was going on, thinking I could find all the answers by myself, to thinking that after all, he is doing okay in school right now in all respects and that the tester was really alarmist when she impressed upon me to keep a close watch on my child and to keep a grade skip from third directly on to the gifted program in fifth firmly in mind, disengagement happening sudden and fast and taking a long time to recover from...

KWIM?
07-06-2014 12:57 PM
moominmamma I think Linda is right on the money. I think this feeling (which is very common, I agree, and almost an inevitable part of being a parent) comes of observing something specific about your child and then trying to use that observation to extrapolate too much too far into the future. When I start freaking out about what to do with a 9-year-old whose short fiction piece was deemed by a professional editor to be "beyond the quality of 90% of what I see submitted by adult writers", or how to cope with an 11-year-old who just aced a 10th grade math midterm, it's usually because I'm looking ahead three years or ten years and freaking out over how I'm going to solve issues that aren't even close to arising yet, if they ever will. (I've also done the same thing with the negative observations. My kid will react badly to something and I'll start second-guessing everything about her character or nature, imagining that this little incident is telling me that something is fundamentally flawed and off-the-rails and will lead to all sorts of awful things. That's the other side of the same coin, and again, I think all parents experience this from time to time.)

I just need to remind myself to keep my feet on the ground, firmly planted in this year, my arm around the shoulder of the kid I have right now. When I do that I see we're doing fine. We've always coped with whatever needs and challenges arise, and we'll continue to do so. Not perfectly, but fine. I'd encourage you to remind yourself of the same.

Miranda
07-05-2014 09:16 AM
Linda on the move
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerle View Post
Edited to ask whether you ever had this happen to you - thinking you had this thing mostly figured out for now and then something comes up that completely floors you...

Honestly, I think that is just parenting. I'm sure some parents never experience it, but that many, many parents who are focused and conscientious experience it at different points. I have with both my kids. (more so with my child who is 2E than with my child who is *just* gifted.)

I think that most people know the very most about how to parent their child right before the child is born. They've read all the books, they have all the answers, and nasty reality hasn't gotten in the way yet. My oldest is 17, and sometimes I feel I know less about parenting every year.

The IQ testing is most likely in the ball park, and any minor discrepancies aren't enough to make any sort of difference. IQ testing isn't an exact science, and for those super close to cutoffs it matters, but realistically, for most people it doesn't. IQs are only one part of who we are or even how bright we are. They measure a subset of how our minds work. (They usually do that within about 3 points, though, which is why I think his score is in the ballpark).

He's still the same kid he was before you had the testing done. In his case, you already knew/strongly suspected his IQ was well above average. He still has the same likes, dislikes, learning style, emotional needs, etc.
07-04-2014 12:34 AM
Tigerle
I'm obviously real confused as to what my problem is - just call it discombobulation

...at DS1's test result, exacerbated by sleep deprivation.

We had DS1 tested recently for entry into the local gifted program (congregated gifted classes) from 5th grade (he is a rising third grader but they have changed the rules for eligibility and individual IQ tests performed after July 31 of this year will not be accepted any more, and I wanted to avoid group testing).

The tester we went to see is one of the most respected in the country, has 30 years of experience, published loads of books (her book on gifted kids is one of the most sensible I've read and I recall thinking at the time "if I ever need to have a kid tested, she is the person I want to see") and has been doing the individual testing for the state's gifted programs ever since their inception. I also had a personal recommendation from a friend whose kid she tested twice. We immediately had a great rapport and so did DS1 who, despite his initial wariness, loved the testing and was reported to have focused extremely well.

For kids who show their high abilities clearly (as opposed to those who are referred for testing because of behaviour problems and suspected underachievement) she uses a European version of the WISC which she explained had been adapted for faster progress through the questions if the kid scored well initially on the easy starter problems (thus avoiding test fatigue) and had recently been republished with extended norms, so should yield very accurate scores.

So, no reason to distrust her scores whatsoever, right? Right.

Only DS1 scored at an FSIQ of 154.

I literally felt I bit faint when I saw the number written on the test sheet. DS1 saw it too and asked what meant and she explained it meant he had done really really well and should enjoy how well his brain worked.

When ds1 had left the room I asked whether she thought it right he should have this information and she said that kids this far out NEED it so they can understand how they fit, or, as the case may be, don't fit into this world. I guess that in a country with mandatory brick and mortar schooling, she does have a point, and no use crying over spilt milk. She also said he'll NEED to be in the gifted program, and we should keep our eye on the possibility of skipping into fifth grade directly after third, which has worked well for a number of kids in that program. (This would be the second acceleration for ds1, who is already the youngest in his grade, and as he is currently happy in his class and takes a long time socially to adjust to new situations, I would like him to finish out fourth grade at his elementary if at all possible - at the moment he is still learning something! and mostly engaged. Also, the gifted program will involve quite a commute).

The one subtest he completely bombed was the one called "social and factual sequencing" where you have to place pictures into the right order and tell the story shown, but apparently he told her all sorts of interesting stuff connected with the facts but did not tell the story the way it is expected. She said he clearly experienced social situations differently from typical kids but to forget he had ever been tested for ASD (at four) and reframe his difficulties for ourselves as differences (such as his inability to cope with other kids breaking rules).

She said that with the previous test without extended norms kids rarely came in over 150 so I immediately asked how he would have scored then. She laughed and said "I knew you'd ask that" and that he would have come in at 147. Same difference really, I mumbled. She laughed again and said to always take IQ scores with a grain of salt and to give or take 10 points, so I could just take the points and think of him as under 150 if that made me more comfortable. Not really, I said.

She complimented us on clearly never having given him the feeling there was anything wrong with his abilities, that she rarely sees a kid who appears so comfortable with what he can do. I have to say that yes, in our faily we fully enjoy what he can do and show him that, and that any resentment we've ever encountered has been directed at me, and has been rare. People do tend to think he is quirky but funny and interesting, and I am very happy for that.



I am still reeling. I have noticed I am looking at my kid differently, suddenly having more tolerance for his quirks and overexcitabilities again, and more understanding for his inabilities to cope with the world, and newly questioning all I am doing and planning for and with him.

And of course, as always, finding new things to worry about, including wondering whether the scores are really true and not somehow inflated, or a fluke....

I never had much understanding for people who went like "omg he's gifted, I can't believe it, what do I do?". I am beginning to understand better.

Edited to ask whether you ever had this happen to you - thinking you had this thing mostly figured out for now and then something comes up that completely floors you...

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