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  Topic Review (Newest First)
03-29-2006 01:14 AM
adinal You belong here. And I agree, the poiint of this thread was to solve some of the issues that were making people not feel welcome, not to make them worse.
03-29-2006 01:07 AM
Dechen

Huh?

I'm equal parts confused and hurt.

I have no idea about any personal issues, but being told I don't belong in here is pretty ouchy. And in some ways proves my point - why do we need to do this to each other? Our energy is better spent supporting each other and fighting for our rights. The last thing I'm looking for is a fight in here.
03-28-2006 10:02 PM
adinal Whoa. Stop.

I don't know what is going on - but if there are personal issues - take it to PM. This thread IS NOT the place for it it. AT ALL.

Please, take it off the boards.
03-28-2006 09:58 PM
waiting2exhale Dechen--- if you don't want to hear/read this thread then why are you here? You don't have to go into threads.. and isn't it wasting your time to go in and critize someone in a forum that you don't even belong in? Its like those people who go looking for a fight. If this isn't what you want to read then you may by all rights go somewhere where you feel more comfortable. Because this is a place to talk about issues that have to do with family.
03-28-2006 09:56 PM
adinal Um, that isn't the most helpful comment, nor does it really apply to this thread.

Let's be gentle with one another and refrain from judgements.
03-28-2006 09:54 PM
waiting2exhale Unhappily married? If you are married to a man and leaning more towards women... why don't you just get a divorce? It would be the best for everyone involved. The kids wouldn't have to see their mom unhappy and dad can have a relationship that he is happy in too.
03-28-2006 09:45 PM
Dechen Whether or not the rules at MDC are applied fairly, and whether or not I personally like them (no and no : ), I don't think it is THAT hard to figure out what threads belong here according to those rules.

1. Is it about a parenting/family issue?
and
2. Is it related to being queer?

If those two conditions aren't met, the thread doesn't meet the standard and doesn't belong here.

I'd love it if MDC were more open, and I sympathize with letting threads fly under the radar. Perhaps if everyone were getting along better it wouldn't be such a big deal, but the sniping and the exclusion are making this forum a drag.

We shouldn't be getting mad at each other for the restrictions that MDC places on us. This is NOT a lesbian discussion forum, or even a queer discussion forum. This isn't a forum about alternative lifestyles. This is a forum to talk about the intersection of AP/NFL and queerness. We all have to share this space, and acknowledge the limitations MDC expects. I almost said respect, but I don't actually respect them.

My heart is shouting "Burn it all down!" with Thismama, but I'm saving my lighter for another time and place.
03-05-2006 04:23 AM
lovebug I am 100% heterosexual for me love my hubby! however i support everything
03-05-2006 03:52 AM
somanythings Hi - I only read to page 6, got a fussy todd and wanted to put my foot in before I had to leave tonight - I voted real quick before I saw that this thread had evolved into a 10 page debate. . .I am bi equal, married to a man, happy in my marriage. . .my best friend all through high school was a gay man, and now all my friends are straight and fairly conservative - I mostly lurk in the "Queer Parenting (families?)" area to remind myself of my connection to the queer community and encourage if I can. I think Adina is doing a great job as a mod and I always look foreward to skimming the threads here.
02-25-2006 06:50 PM
chiedza Maybe it goes back to the conservative nature of these boards someone mentioned earlier: there is an unstated belief that parents should be partnered, preferably monogamously and preferably heterosexually. If you're not partnered, you should be in the Single Parenting board talking about trying how to get partnered ("the dating thread" mentioned by mshollyk).

I hang out in the Single Parents forum sometimes but if I wanted to talk about dating I don't think I'd do it there because most of the posts are about heterosexual dating and I'm not sure how they'd react to me -- probably just fine, but I'd feel more comfortable doing so here. And I think it should be okay.

AdinaL mentioned there's no way Peggy O will not reconsider her stance on no sex talk on these boards. That's fine. I don't think any of us are arguing that we should have that. But to say our topics should be restricted to Parenting would mean shutting down many, many threads in almost every forum.
02-25-2006 05:43 PM
mamajama
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshollyk
i'm actually not sure why queer dating threads would make anyone uncomfortable
Yeah, I don't get it either.
I can see if any threads in the queer forum or elsewhere on the boards were sordid descriptions of late-night rendezvous or how to guides on extra-marital affairs. But dating does not=sex, and people in non-monogomous relationships or relationships of any kind, need to constantly take care to find and maintain a balance between their adult relationships and those with their kids. This includes adult relationships with co-workers, extended family, neighbours, government, friends, romantic partners etc.
02-25-2006 05:28 PM
mshollyk uh okay, now i see the problem. there is a thread called "the dating thread" elsewhere in a parenting forum. i've never lurked in that forum, it just popped up as the most recent thread in "Parenting Issues."

this is a tough one, no doubt about it. i'm actually not sure why queer dating threads would make anyone uncomfortable
02-24-2006 10:27 PM
Kaitnbugsmom I usually stay away from submissiveness threads of the "biblical" variety because they tend to be written by biblical situational literalists, and I deal with enough of those IRL who go by "pastor says the bible means this" or "paul was dealing with ALL women, that Eunice stuff was added by the catholics" theories... :blech: ukey: but I may have to go check it out just for a frame of reference as to what everyone is talking about..

Adina. BTDT on the mod thing back when On line par ents was still around. and a couple other places off and on since then. Yours is a job I do not envy... Applying equal rule to all when there are a dozen or so people interpreting the rules for a hundred plus sub forums is a royal *word we can't use* I appreciated the work you are doing to see this through in our best intrests...
02-24-2006 09:56 PM
BrooklynDoula
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdinaL
I don't think that this is homophobia on the part of MDC - but unclear guidelines that make it hard for the mods to act in a unilateral manner across all forums.

To be clear, I think it would be homophobic to change the rules over here with out attention to the unfiar application of those rules and the extent to which monogamous and hetero relationships are being discussed. I really appreciate you not changing things here until it is all worked out and your efforts to bring these issues to the attention of the PTB. Thank you for your work.
02-24-2006 09:34 PM
adinal All valid point - which I will bring up. Because I agree - the submissive wives thread is flying under radar as a spiritual thread...and it is a relationship thread - just the same. .

I am not ignoring you, just processing, and I was at work most of the day. So right now, i am just gather notes and take them back to the PTB and discuss where to go. The rules have to be applied fairly, across the board. This is something the mod struggle with a lot, and are working to do the best we can everywhere.

The relationship/sex thread issue is a fairly new one - and we have discussions regularly regarding which threads fall where. WE are still confused about it -not surprising that you are as well.

I will not be making any changes to what is in this forum until this is all worked out. So continue to post as you always have, and once we get these issues worked out - we will deal with the changes then.

I don't think that this is homophobia on the part of MDC - but unclear guidelines that make it hard for the mods to act in a unilateral manner across all forums. The fact that some things are very relevant to specific forums and not allowed in others doesn't help. (Sex being a topic that many discuss while TTC - but the threads there wouldn't be allowed in other forums...things like that.) So, I think that giving the benefit of the doubt to us mods is a really nice idea. We really do work our butts off...you would be amazed how much freaking time I spend on this board, in addition to two jobs. We all do. I know we don't always make people happy, but we aren't always happy with things either.

As for MDC becoming more open regarding sex threads...not gonna happen. That comes directly from Peggy O. She doesn't feel this is the place. Period. It has been brought up before.

lunadoula - your example is far better than mine! That is a much better dividing line than mine was.

I agree that the rules need to be applied fairly. I am working on making rules that CAN be applied fairly.


Thank you for keeping talking - It helps me bring to light other issues that I need to take back and hash out with the other mods. And it is easier if I can point to specific things and say "this, here - doesn't work".

As for the derailed thread - my apologies. But this way we too can fly under the radar a bit and get some things worked out.

And FTR, Mr. Rogers creeps me out.
02-24-2006 09:03 PM
BrooklynDoula
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama
The rules should be applied fairly, and partnership issues that don't directly relate to parenting are hosted in many other forums on this board. It just seems that married, monogamous, traditional-wife type issues slide under the radar far more easily.
To me this is the core issue. I am not saying we should discuss BDSM issues here, but rather, that if some can talk about submission others should be able to also and just because on type is more normative should not mean that the rule can be bent for some and not others. To do otherwise it to further the heteronormative nature of MDC and to participate in homophobia in my opinion.
02-24-2006 07:57 PM
thismama
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiedza
thismama, your sig is perfect for this thread!
Isn't it tho?
02-24-2006 07:55 PM
thismama
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunadoula
Like others have said I just think the rules should be applied fairly. When the whole point of a post by a monogamous mama is "I'm so fed up with my dp for ____(xyz reason not related to parenting")____ I don't think that belongs at MDC either, if MDC is going to have that sort of rule. That seems different from posting something like "My dw is having a really hard time with the fact that she can't be a legal parent right after the baby is born." That to me, is an issue specifically related to queer parenting (for those who are in a same-sex partnership) and I could justify why if asked.
Yes I agree with you about the differences between partnership issues directly related to parenting, and those that aren't.

I also agree that the rules should be applied fairly, and partnership issues that don't directly relate to parenting are hosted in many other forums on this board. It just seems that married, monogamous, traditional-wife type issues slide under the radar far more easily.
02-24-2006 07:27 PM
chiedza thismama, your sig is perfect for this thread!
02-24-2006 07:24 PM
lunadoula
Quote:
Originally Posted by thismama
Why wouldn't it belong on MDC, lunadoula, if the equivalent relationship issues between monogamous couples do belong here?
Like others have said I just think the rules should be applied fairly. When the whole point of a post by a monogamous mama is "I'm so fed up with my dp for ____(xyz reason not related to parenting")____ I don't think that belongs at MDC either, if MDC is going to have that sort of rule. That seems different from posting something like "My dw is having a really hard time with the fact that she can't be a legal parent right after the baby is born." That to me, is an issue specifically related to queer parenting (for those who are in a same-sex partnership) and I could justify why if asked.

I'm not trying to be argumentative btw, just trying to figure out this whole "line" business which of course all depends on people's personal interpretations which of course are not always the best IMO when the people in power aren't queer or don't understand our issues. Which is why I really appreciate the different perspectives and comments that have come up on this now totally derailed thread!
02-24-2006 07:14 PM
thismama Why wouldn't it belong on MDC, lunadoula, if the equivalent relationship issues between monogamous couples do belong here?
02-24-2006 07:12 PM
lunadoula I hear what you are saying kaitnbugsmom. You can't be the only polyfidelous mama on here though - I have to believe there are others. Given that you don't even date other people, I can't imagine how posts about what you are dealing with wouldn't be appropriate to discuss. The examples you have proposed earlier on this thread seem (to me as a non-mod of course) like they would be fine. I might be open on MDC about being poly and if that affected parenting in some way, TTC, etc, but I wouldn't post about things like "oh i'm so tired of dw having a problem with my other lover" blah blah. Might that be a part of my reality? Yes. Might I need to vent about it? Maybe. I just don't personally feel like that sort of thing belongs here on MDC.

Now if it were about "I have two partners and that is creating challenges when it comes to consistent discipline" or something, then that seems like poly relationship stuff related to parenting.
02-24-2006 06:53 PM
Kaitnbugsmom finishing my thoughts....

I guess I'm different than most if not all poly people though, especailly here. I almost didn't choose the poly option in the poll because it said poly/open, and our relationship is poly, but definitely not open....
02-24-2006 06:52 PM
Kaitnbugsmom
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshollyk
see, for me, if i wanted to know about *how* to go about having a poly MMFtM relationship (boy can things get complicated ), i'd go to a poly site, or maybe manhunt. if i wanted to know about BDSM, i'd go to a site that dealt with that. and in fact, i have other sites that i go to to discuss relationship stuff (ESPECIALLY non-traditional stuff), cuz i don't feel the vibe around here (MDC generally, not QP specifically) is just too conservative for my tastes where that is concerned.

I guess if you were looking for a casual polyamory type relationship, the above would be true. but our situation is not anything of that nature. it is a poly fidelity relationship, one that we are in for the rest of our lives, God willing. We have no intention or desire of changing anything. Our relationship is not open, and never will be. Those who are in open ended or other open types of poly relationships might find what they are looking for at manhunt or something like that, where it's about the sex or meetups or whatever, but those sites don't cater to parents, from what i've seen, and especially not to parents in a three-prong, life-long relationship that revolves around the natural family lifestyle and contains no intent to invite or persue outsiders...
02-24-2006 06:51 PM
chiedza
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshollyk
in fact, i have other sites that i go to to discuss relationship stuff (ESPECIALLY non-traditional stuff), cuz i don't feel the vibe around here (MDC generally, not QP specifically) is just too conservative for my tastes where that is concerned.
It seems like the point of this discussion might be to try to get MDC to be alittle less conservative so that maybe those things COULD be discussed here.
02-24-2006 06:22 PM
mshollyk see, for me, if i wanted to know about *how* to go about having a poly MMFtM relationship (boy can things get complicated ), i'd go to a poly site, or maybe manhunt. if i wanted to know about BDSM, i'd go to a site that dealt with that. and in fact, i have other sites that i go to to discuss relationship stuff (ESPECIALLY non-traditional stuff), cuz i don't feel the vibe around here (MDC generally, not QP specifically) is just too conservative for my tastes where that is concerned.
02-24-2006 05:01 PM
lunadoula Um... Just went over and read some of the "submissive wife" thread thingy. Let me now say that I guess I don't get around MDC enough - I tend to stick to certain forums. There was a *whole lot* of relationship talk not related to parenting going on in there.

Now I can understand why so many of you are : though I have to say I don't really want to start discussing bdsm in here. Nothing wrong with that but um...not personally what I want to have at MDC.

Adina - are the mods going to crack down on *all* relationship threads not related to parenting?
02-24-2006 03:34 PM
mamajama It's been great having the opportunity to hash some of this out. Thanks Adina, for providing the space for us to do so. The line will no doubt become more clear with this discussion. I appreciate it a lot.
02-24-2006 03:31 PM
bjorker
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiedza
I don't understand why we shouldn't be allowed to discuss matters not related to parenting, e.g. sex, dating, meeting people, etc. In "Single Parenting" those matters are discussed, so why not here? In "Talk Amongst Yourselves," topics unrelated to parenting are often discussed, so why not here?

I did post a thread that was about meeting other queer mamas in real life, but I meant it for friendship not (necessarily) dating -- is that allowed here? I'm thinking now the reason I got so few responses is because I mentioned I'm bi.

The reason I would want to come here with such issues is because I feel like I already have something in common with the other mamas here (an interest in natural family living, etc.) and so I'm comfortable posting. (Or rather was until I started reading this thread.)

If there are other online communities that are more appropriate to the various "interest groups" here, could we start a sticky with links to those resources?

This is EXACTLY what I've been thinking through this whole conversation. Parents As Partners got shut down for awhile due to sex talk, okay, but now that it's back up people are still talking about it in way more explicit ways that get talked about here. There's a thread about a married woman who feels like "she fell in love" with someone else (and not in a poly way, a "should I leave my husband for this guy?" sort of way). There are threads about husbands potentially cheating, a woman found strange emails from her husband to an ex, etc.

Let's not forget "finding your tribe" where threads like the MJ thread no doubt are not just talking about smoking pot around your family. or kids, or somehow directly connected to family.

I'm sure I could go through and find oodles of examples.

If we're going to have this "thin line" because of Mothering's standards, please, at least be consistant.
02-24-2006 03:21 PM
tara And, it has been said in this forum that discussions about poly families don't belong here in part because they are about relationships and sex. Which is true of monogamy, biblical submission, lots of other stuff that is discussed at mdc.
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