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Thread: If a friend of your chooses to circ...do you stay friends with them? Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
09-26-2014 05:35 AM
mama24-7
Quote:
Originally Posted by loonbean View Post
IMHO, if you equate circumcision to child abuse and are so vehemently against it, then you are simply a judgmental Anti-Semite
So, what about all the religious people who are Intactivists? Ever seen www.beyondthebris.com? Think everyone is still doing it?http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE8AR0M720121128?irpc=932 Do you know Miriam Pollack? How about Leonard Glick, MD or Paul Fleiss, MD?

It's only anti-semitism if a person only wants to do away with religous cutting. Otherwise, it's a red herring.

Cutting off healthy, functional body parts of another person is wrong no matter what your reason & no matter the sex of the person. Body mods are for adults to choose for themselves.

May you have girls.

All the best,
Sus
09-23-2014 08:32 PM
Sharlla
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightyferrettoes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Mexico Beach
I am surprised at how many of you would not be friends with someone who made a different personal decision than you.

That's just it; it's not a "personal decision" any more than FGM is. It's a violation of a kid's basic human rights, and someone who knows the facts and chooses to do it anyway has just demonstrated a major lack of character in my book.

Completely agree with this
09-23-2014 08:28 PM
Sharlla I've unfriended aquaintenses and distant family on Facebook for doing this. I don't have any friends who have, the ones with older boys didn't and all my kid free or pregnant friends said they wouldn't.

If I took the time to educate someone about why RIC is wrong and they would still choose to do it I know I'd never be able to respect them. And doubt I'd be willing to continue a friendship.
09-23-2014 06:50 AM
hakunangovi [QUOTE=loonbean;18035106]IMHO, if you equate circumcision to child abuse and are so vehemently against it, then you are simply a judgmental Anti-Semite[/QUOTE

What? It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with basic personal human rights !!

But since you bring up religion - forcing yours on a baby in an indelible way rather detracts from the notion of "Freedom of choice".
09-22-2014 10:04 AM
PitBullMom
Quote:
Originally Posted by loonbean View Post
IMHO, if you equate circumcision to child abuse and are so vehemently against it, then you are simply a judgmental Anti-Semite
Do you have any way to know that your son will decide to follow the Jewish faith when he is an adult? No, you don't. So you are making a permanent decision about his body based on views that he might not ever share.

I'm actually Christian, and have very strong views regarding my faith. My child will be raised learning about all religions and make his own decision when he's old enough to do so. If he decides that the Jewish faith is the right one for him, he can decide to have his foreskin removed and I will support him in that decision 100%.

Not agreeing with circumcision has nothing to do with being an anti-Semite. It has everything to do with respecting the body integrity of another human being.
09-22-2014 09:42 AM
loonbean IMHO, if you equate circumcision to child abuse and are so vehemently against it, then you are simply a judgmental Anti-Semite
09-22-2014 09:01 AM
PitBullMom
Quote:
Originally Posted by loonbean View Post
equating circumcision to abuse is foolish... it diminishes what true child abuse is. in any case, whether or not i circumcise my son, or your friend circumcises their son is none of your business.
And if I have a girl and decide to have all of her labial folds removed? Is would you consider that to be "true" abuse?? (hint: female genital mutilation illegal in most "developed" countries)

Removing healthy skin from the genitals (or any other body part) of another person without their consent would be called assault according to the law, but we do it to infants so somehow it's ok.

There are medical reason for circumcision, but they are few and far between. If you used the same reasons that most people give for having boys cut "it looks better", "it's cleaner", "it lowers risk of infection" for wanting the identical procedure done to a baby girl you'd be lucky to keep custody of that baby girl
09-15-2014 09:28 PM
MeganKulage I view it as sexual assault. It is sexual because it is the genitals, and assault because of obvious reasons. You know, slicing off the tip of the penis.
09-15-2014 09:26 PM
MeganKulage I have. I have some friends who I have been friends with forever, and they have circed sons. But, it was before I even learned about it all, so I didnt even give them the info. I do stay friends with them because, cant change it. But, I do leave friendships when they have the info and do it anyways.
09-13-2014 06:37 PM
mama24-7
Quote:
Originally Posted by loonbean View Post
equating circumcision to abuse is foolish... it diminishes what true child abuse is. in any case, whether or not i circumcise my son, or your friend circumcises their son is none of your business.
You forgot to add, "in my opinion," to the end of your assertions. I see forced prepuce amputation as a human rights violation, whether the sex of the person being altered is male, female or intersex. But the reality is, our opinions do not matter. The only valid opinion on modifications made to a persons body is the owner of that body.

Not your body, not your choice.

Sus
09-12-2014 02:21 PM
cynthia mosher Everyone - please post respectfully or step out of this discussion. You can certainly share your opinion of not being concerned about whether your friends circ or not but you should do so without flippant or denigrating remarks against the opinions and feelings of others.
09-10-2014 01:44 PM
loonbean equating circumcision to abuse is foolish... it diminishes what true child abuse is. in any case, whether or not i circumcise my son, or your friend circumcises their son is none of your business.
09-10-2014 01:38 PM
loonbean good god get over yourself
08-29-2014 06:20 PM
notnowmaybelater
Quote:
Originally Posted by julie128 View Post
I would not want to be friends with someone so petty as to not be friends with me over something like circumcision.

Petty? Some people view it as child abuse.. even if it is a socially acceptable form of abuse.

I personally wouldn't unfriend someone over circumcision, but I wouldn't support them.
But if I was dating someone pro-circ, I would end that relationship.
05-16-2014 09:06 PM
julie128

I would not want to be friends with someone so petty as to not be friends with me over something like circumcision.

05-16-2014 05:50 PM
twixer

luckily, my friends are true, non-judgmental friends.

06-14-2008 03:12 AM
l_olive This thread is almost two years old. Did you have a reason for bumping it now?
06-14-2008 03:06 AM
*Erin* don't know if i've posted on this thread or not, but i have to say, it would be a fast deal breaker for me. im in no way ok with it.
06-15-2006 12:03 AM
tayndrewsmama
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntengwall
A Moyl (mohel) is the person in the Jewish faith who comes to do the briss (circumcision). I was just stating that she is catholic to show that there was no religious reason for them circ. They used a moyl because it was who would come to their home and do it after they left the birth center. You know...what was best for THEM. If they really had their child's best interest at heart they would have left him intact or at least waited until he was old enough to have pain meds and use a pediatric urologist.
Ah, I gotcha now.
06-14-2006 11:59 PM
ntengwall A Moyl (mohel) is the person in the Jewish faith who comes to do the briss (circumcision). I was just stating that she is catholic to show that there was no religious reason for them circ. They used a moyl because it was who would come to their home and do it after they left the birth center. You know...what was best for THEM. If they really had their child's best interest at heart they would have left him intact or at least waited until he was old enough to have pain meds and use a pediatric urologist.
06-14-2006 11:38 PM
tayndrewsmama
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntengwall
I never heard anything from her over the next few days and found out later that she had it done in their house on the 7th day by a Moyl (sp?). They are catholic.
What's a Moyl and how does that relate to being Catholic?
06-14-2006 09:38 PM
ntengwall I circ'd my first two boys and not the third--we wised up! My sister-in-law knows this and has even seen the video Intact Facts (I teach childbirth classes and she took them with her first (a girl) and saw the video then and also took a refresher with her second and saw the video again. I just *happened* to be showing it for the class she decided to come to! LOL

But I guess it didn't do any good! I was at the birth center, natural birth of her son and as soon as everyone left the room and it was just me, her and the baby, I said something to the effect of, "Now you have to decide what to do about circ." I looked her in the eye and said, " You know I did it twice and decided not to do it again--please don't do it to Evan." She said she wasn't sure (and that's when I knew she was going to do it).
I went to her house a few days later and took her The Case Against Circ article and Dr Fleiss' phone #. She said her Ped. told her that she has seen way too many horror stories with INTACT babies. I told her that instead of paying me (they wanted to give me a spa day) for my doula services all I asked of her was to at least call and talk to Dr Fleiss. I tried so damn hard to save that little boy's foreskin!!!
I never heard anything from her over the next few days and found out later that she had it done in their house on the 7th day by a Moyl (sp?). They are catholic.
Ever since then (and he is 2 now) I feel disgusted with her. How in the world do you see Intact Facts TWICE, read The Case Against Circ, read Circumsion, What Your Dr May Not Tell You and then STILL do it??????
We used to be close but it has definetly changed how I feel about her and how I look at her as a mother.
06-14-2006 07:13 PM
tayndrewsmama
Quote:
Originally Posted by Microsoap
I've seen Sue Johanson ('The Sunday Night Sex Show') advocate a dorsal slit at most...
That lady sure seems to know alot! More than I want to know, I think.
06-14-2006 05:20 PM
Microsoap
Quote:
Originally Posted by bewitchedmama
my son is intact, and he is now 6 facing phimosis of a more severe nature--therefore we go to the specialist in July to determine the next course of action--i'm not thrilled about having to face circumcising him now, and the emotionality i am feeling about doing it is beyond my realm of experience

i don't consider myself a bad mother, or having taken bad medical advice or a child abuser, nor mutilating my son
he can't choose--however, it isn't my body, but i am legally and morally obligated to protect and provide my son the best possible life he can have--
if i have to do it, why not now, rather than puberty approaching as the penis has grown larger and more possible problems arise then? should I scar him horrifically as a prepubescent adolescent rather than a 6year old? hmmm, who's to say what the best decision is--should i now not have another son? will I be judged as a bad mother if i circ my next one?

who's to say what's right and wrong, there is no TRUE perfect choice and those of you who chose to judge based on other people's choices, might ought to take out your manual on "appropriate moral behavior for humans" and send me a copy--i'd like to see it

just thought i'd throw that in too
If steroid creams can't do it, why go for a radical circ? Wouldn't a simple dorsal slit work? I've seen Sue Johanson ('The Sunday Night Sex Show') advocate a dorsal slit at most... and even then, wait until the late-teen years before evaluating your choices!
06-13-2006 10:59 AM
A&A
Quote:
Originally Posted by bewitchedmama
my son is intact, and he is now 6 facing phimosis of a more severe nature--therefore we go to the specialist in July to determine the next course of action--i'm not thrilled about having to face circumcising him now, and the emotionality i am feeling about doing it is beyond my realm of experience

i don't consider myself a bad mother, or having taken bad medical advice or a child abuser, nor mutilating my son
he can't choose--however, it isn't my body, but i am legally and morally obligated to protect and provide my son the best possible life he can have--
if i have to do it, why not now, rather than puberty approaching as the penis has grown larger and more possible problems arise then? should I scar him horrifically as a prepubescent adolescent rather than a 6year old? hmmm, who's to say what the best decision is--should i now not have another son? will I be judged as a bad mother if i circ my next one?

who's to say what's right and wrong, there is no TRUE perfect choice and those of you who chose to judge based on other people's choices, might ought to take out your manual on "appropriate moral behavior for humans" and send me a copy--i'd like to see it

just thought i'd throw that in too


SO many American doctors are ignorant about how to properly care for an intact penis........that they see "problems" when they aren't there. If I were you, I'd contact Dr. Paul Fleiss in Los Angeles. PM me for his email address. Because you're right......you are obligated to protect your son. Which, to me, would include contacting Dr. Fleiss for his opinion.

"Phimosis" means "closed foreskin" which a 6 yo. is SUPPOSED to have! He's not supposed to be able to retract until puberty! (Some boys do retract before then, but it's normal not to, also.)

Please do not try to force retraction and do not let anyone else force retraction, either.


And read this article from Mothering: (written by Dr. Fleiss)

http://www.mothering.com/articles/ne...uncircson.html

"The tightness of the foreskin is a safety mechanism that protects the glans and urethra from direct exposure to contaminants and germs. The tight foreskin also keeps the boy's glans warm, clean, and moist, and when he is an adult, it will give him pleasure. As long as your son can urinate, he is perfectly normal. There is no age by which a child's foreskin must be retractable. Do not let your doctor or anyone try to retract your child's foreskin. Optimal hygiene of the penis demands that the foreskin of infants and children be left alone. Premature retraction rips the skin of the penis open and causes your child extreme pain. There is no legitimate medical justification for retraction. The child's discomfort is proof of that."
06-13-2006 09:57 AM
tayndrewsmama
Quote:
Originally Posted by caloli
PS did you see the spin off from this thread in TAO?
What is it? :
06-13-2006 06:48 AM
Revamp
Quote:
Originally Posted by bewitchedmama
my son is intact, and he is now 6 facing phimosis of a more severe nature--therefore we go to the specialist in July to determine the next course of action--i'm not thrilled about having to face circumcising him now, and the emotionality i am feeling about doing it is beyond my realm of experience

i don't consider myself a bad mother, or having taken bad medical advice or a child abuser, nor mutilating my son
he can't choose--however, it isn't my body, but i am legally and morally obligated to protect and provide my son the best possible life he can have--
if i have to do it, why not now, rather than puberty approaching as the penis has grown larger and more possible problems arise then? should I scar him horrifically as a prepubescent adolescent rather than a 6year old? hmmm, who's to say what the best decision is--should i now not have another son? will I be judged as a bad mother if i circ my next one?

who's to say what's right and wrong, there is no TRUE perfect choice and those of you who chose to judge based on other people's choices, might ought to take out your manual on "appropriate moral behavior for humans" and send me a copy--i'd like to see it

just thought i'd throw that in too
I suffered from phimosis, I found a cure which required neither surgery nor medication but I suppose I was not the most severe of cases.

But please remember that just retracting does not phimosis make, that might happen later and make sure you get the right specialist because even here in England where RIC is non-existant they seem to be a bit circ-happy. Ask him about steroid creams, prepuplastory and the dorsal slit.

If he does not know what "The Beauge Method" is then run a mile.
06-12-2006 10:34 PM
LadyMarmalade PS did you see the spin off from this thread in TAO?
06-12-2006 10:33 PM
LadyMarmalade As I said earlier, I wouldn't be friends with someone who chose to cut their son for no good reason (ie society, religion, looks, etc), but if a friend's son had a medical condition which didn't respond to nonsurgical treatment I'd absolutely support her 100%. There's a WORLD of difference between RIC and a medically necessary circ, imo.
06-12-2006 09:52 PM
Lula's Mom Is he not peeing? Can you share what the nature of his phimosis is?

eta: I think there is a perfect choice, and that is what you did: to leave him as he was born, as nature intended him to be. If problems arise later, they can be dealt with. In other ways than surgically, in almost all case, thank goodness!
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