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He's refusing to leave, panicked update, post 32

595 views 55 replies 11 participants last post by  alpenglow 
#1 ·
I just filed on Monday and have asked STBX to leave for the duration. He says he feels fine at home, not tense at all, and that leaving would be disruptive for the kids. He says he's sorry I feel tense.

I understand why he'd want to stay in his home, but really, it feels more of the same, he is getting what he wants, diminishing my concerns. (I feel fine, no tension at all, sorry about you.) I have filed a petition for temporary use of the the house, and I am fairly certain the court will grant it (according to my lawyer). I might ask my lawyer again about moving out since a friend has offered to lend me the security deposit.

I can't even face my neighbors, they KNOW something is up, but if I tell them, the kids risk finding out. I've been trying to be civil about this, but I think I might just need to tell him I can't stand being in his presence and detail exactly why.

There's no real point of this, I'm venting, trying not to scream around the kids.
 
#2 ·
Has he consulted with a lawyer? I read a dad's divorce forum every now and again and everyone strongly advises dads to not move out because it looks bad custody wise. I've even seen men advise one another to make life really uncomfortable for the wife to try to convince her to leave (i.e. turning the hot water off, cutting her off from any money for groceries, but buying stuff for the kids only, etc.) I don't mean to scare you, but is there a chance he is going to try to keep the house?

In the same vein, if you are hoping to keep the house, I wouldn't move out. Try to keep your temper and try not to interact with him, as that may be just what he is hoping for (i.e. to make you look like the unreasonable one).
 
#5 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by bananabee View Post

This is the worst part of divorce. Between filing and when he'll been served. I'm so glad you filed to have sole occupation of the house.
Yes, I am so glad that is filed, too. I knew this would be an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenemami View Post

Has he consulted with a lawyer? I read a dad's divorce forum every now and again and everyone strongly advises dads to not move out because it looks bad custody wise. I've even seen men advise one another to make life really uncomfortable for the wife to try to convince her to leave (i.e. turning the hot water off, cutting her off from any money for groceries, but buying stuff for the kids only, etc.) I don't mean to scare you, but is there a chance he is going to try to keep the house?

In the same vein, if you are hoping to keep the house, I wouldn't move out. Try to keep your temper and try not to interact with him, as that may be just what he is hoping for (i.e. to make you look like the unreasonable one).
I doubt he has consulted a lawyer, he wants to keep costs as low as possible. He is probably going to try to keep the house.... and I am OK with that. I cannot afford the mortgage, it is under water financially, and the town may be making some changes to the area that would further lower the property value. It's basically an albatross. But I think he does want it. This is why I'd leave now if I could.

But I have been painted as the unreasonable one for a very long time. Every issue of every type and size is me overreacting and being unreasonable. He is insisting he feels no tension, nothing awkward, or anything. There's no need for us to have any space from one another, nope, all is just dandy. I'm the one with the problem.

I just dumped him after 12 years of marriage, and all is well in his world. This and other things makes me think he doesn't really experience emotions like the rest of humanity, but that's another topic.
 
#6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoeyZoo View Post

Hugs. What you're facing isn't uncommon at all but it sucks. I would go with what your lawyer recommends unless you feel threatened or really need to get out ASAP.
My lawyer said to stay unless I feel threatened. There is nothing threatening in his behavior (except his acute cheerfulness is really disconcerting and unnerving), so I am staying. Except I cannot sleep and am so stressed I want to pull out my hair.
 
#7 ·
Do you at least have separate rooms? Do you have a spare room you can take over, and install a lock so he can't get in and you can get some space?

I lived with my ex for a couple of months after I told him I was definitely leaving and it was so awkward and horrible. He basically told me I didn't deserve to have any part of *his* house and dumped all of my clothes and other belongings etc out of the dressers/closet in "his" room. I lived out of garbage bags from my kids' room and slept in a twin bed with them for nearly 3 months, and even then he wouldn't give me any privacy because it was, after all, his kids' room in his house. Yikes, I had kind of blocked all that out until just now honestly!

The cheerfulness sounds weirdly disconcerting. It is strange to pretend everything is great while spreading the news of your divorce. While it's nice to keep things peaceful for the kids, of course, it's also odd to act like everything is wonderful between you two and then drop a bombshell.

I tried to be around and communicate as little as possible with ex while we were separated but living together. I set up a schedule detailing when I would be with the kids and when I would agree to leave the house so he could have time along with them. Of course, ex refused to follow it, but I tried! Maybe your ex will agree to something like that if he won't agree to outright leave?
 
#8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenemami View Post

Do you at least have separate rooms? Do you have a spare room you can take over, and install a lock so he can't get in and you can get some space?

I lived with my ex for a couple of months after I told him I was definitely leaving and it was so awkward and horrible. He basically told me I didn't deserve to have any part of *his* house and dumped all of my clothes and other belongings etc out of the dressers/closet in "his" room. I lived out of garbage bags from my kids' room and slept in a twin bed with them for nearly 3 months, and even then he wouldn't give me any privacy because it was, after all, his kids' room in his house. Yikes, I had kind of blocked all that out until just now honestly!

The cheerfulness sounds weirdly disconcerting. It is strange to pretend everything is great while spreading the news of your divorce. While it's nice to keep things peaceful for the kids, of course, it's also odd to act like everything is wonderful between you two and then drop a bombshell.

I tried to be around and communicate as little as possible with ex while we were separated but living together. I set up a schedule detailing when I would be with the kids and when I would agree to leave the house so he could have time along with them. Of course, ex refused to follow it, but I tried! Maybe your ex will agree to something like that if he won't agree to outright leave?
I do have a separate room, but it is in the basement, two floors away from the kids at night. They often look for me during the night so have to go down two flights of stairs and a hallway to get to me. I've been there since June.

Maybe he will agree to a schedule like you have suggested. The only hitch is that I work from home so during his time with the kids it would need to be working. I really cannot let my income drop right now! But maybe he could take the kids out during his time with them.
 
#9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenemami View Post

Has he consulted with a lawyer? I read a dad's divorce forum every now and again and everyone strongly advises dads to not move out because it looks bad custody wise. I've even seen men advise one another to make life really uncomfortable for the wife to try to convince her to leave
Yes. In my X's case, it was stay in the home until you have an agreement signed. It was horrible. The worst days/weeks of my life. By far. I have arthritis in my hips and back and I was forced to sleep on the floor of the kids' room by his refusal to leave.

I don't know what you or he can do legally if you move out and take the kids if he doesn't agree to it. Careful!

No matter what happens, realize that these are likely the worst days of your life, but you will move past them and you will soon be on the other side of these horrible, horrible days.
 
#10 ·
Mine stayed from May when I filed until Oct 1st when the court order when into effect.

Can you rearrange beds to be closer to te kids at night? Even move a bed into their room? I finally bought a futon for my living room after sleeping on a loveseat for months. Sleeping better really helped.
 
#11 ·
He might be acting as though everything is fine as an emotional abuse/gaslighting strategy to throw you off kilter. They love to create the impression of us overreacting, and play on our guilt. He is probably hoping that you won't follow through on the sole occupancy order, because he knows he is at a legal disadvantage if he leaves the home. He may have indeed consulted a lawyer already and is keeping that from you, or pretending he is cheap to lead you into a false sense of security, thinking he doesn't yet have a lawyer. All speculation of course....but if he lacks empathy/conscience then he would be quite comfortable with lying and/or misleading you.

He is also probably trying to give you nothing as far as evidence to support the reasons for a sole occupancy order.

My lawyer advised me to not leave the family home without a signed global agreement in place. And if/when I do leave (after the agreement is signed), he suggested that if I can't find a home to buy right away, that I rent a HOUSE, not an apartment (keeps the playing field level).

Even if you don't want the home in the end, if the monthly payment is manageable (and less than renting a similar home), I would say stand your ground and let the judge decide.

You sound strong and smart about this, mama. Keeping my fingers crossed for you!
 
#12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Lupine View Post

I do have a separate room, but it is in the basement, two floors away from the kids at night. They often look for me during the night so have to go down two flights of stairs and a hallway to get to me. I've been there since June.

Maybe he will agree to a schedule like you have suggested. The only hitch is that I work from home so during his time with the kids it would need to be working. I really cannot let my income drop right now! But maybe he could take the kids out during his time with them.
I work from home too. It was a pain, but I packed up my laptop etc. and took it to the library when he had the kids at the house. I couldn't rely on him to take the kids out or keep them busy at home even when we were together, so I didn't want to give him the chance to sabotage me further.
 
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#13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenemami View Post

I work from home too. It was a pain, but I packed up my laptop etc. and took it to the library when he had the kids at the house. I couldn't rely on him to take the kids out or keep them busy at home even when we were together, so I didn't want to give him the chance to sabotage me further.
I would love to be able to do that, but I need to work from a specific IP address. So going to a friend's house or a library wouldn't work.
 
#15 ·
when are you planning to tell the kids? obviously his moving out would require that, so why not have that conversation now? it's fairly likely that this does not even seem real to him / he's in denial OR that he thinks you'll lose your nerve and is just trying to hold out until you crumble and decide not to pursue the divorce. i'd make it as real as possible, as quickly as possible.
 
#16 ·
I seem to remember, too, that it is advisable to tell the kids well before any actual major upheaval - ie. before anyone moves out. But it is also best to have a clear plan so you can answer their questions as directly as possible. Has your ex agreed to move out? In our case, X moving out was the only option. When we told the kids, he didn't (Supposedly) have a place lined up, but we could tell them he was going to get a new home not too far away and they would have 2 homes.

It might still be better to tell them now. But this means you and ex need to have a chat about what you're going to say to them about living arrangements.

Telling the kids was so very hard. But it really helped me in that I no longer felt like I was living a lie.

xo
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by doubledutch View Post

when are you planning to tell the kids? obviously his moving out would require that, so why not have that conversation now? it's fairly likely that this does not even seem real to him / he's in denial OR that he thinks you'll lose your nerve and is just trying to hold out until you crumble and decide not to pursue the divorce. i'd make it as real as possible, as quickly as possible.
I want to tell them very soon. I know it will be really hard and I am dreading it, but I think it needs to be done soon. When we talked about it last we said we would wait to tell them until we could give some practical information about how it would affect them. I can't imagine telling them, then continuing on as business as usual for weeks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilgreen View Post

I seem to remember, too, that it is advisable to tell the kids well before any actual major upheaval - ie. before anyone moves out. But it is also best to have a clear plan so you can answer their questions as directly as possible. Has your ex agreed to move out? In our case, X moving out was the only option. When we told the kids, he didn't (Supposedly) have a place lined up, but we could tell them he was going to get a new home not too far away and they would have 2 homes.

It might still be better to tell them now. But this means you and ex need to have a chat about what you're going to say to them about living arrangements.

Telling the kids was so very hard. But it really helped me in that I no longer felt like I was living a lie.

xo
Once we sort out the living arrangements, I want to tell them. That's exactly how I feel, like I am living a lie.
 
#18 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Lupine View Post

Once we sort out the living arrangements, I want to tell them. That's exactly how I feel, like I am living a lie.
I think that is really a good idea. Why upset them before anything is going to change? It can work in your favor if he doesn't believe you're serious until he gets served. Then he's legally restrained from hiding money, spending it on big ticket items, disappearing with the kids. He's not leaving until a court order spells it out, so maybe tell the kids the same day he gets served, or the day before if you are certain he will be served a specific day. That way he won't be absolutely furious and storm out or something, leaving you with the kids mad and confused.
 
#19 ·
I slept in DD's room during this phase. I slept with her and the dog in a dd's bed and locked the door. I was still co sleeping with dd so it wasn't anything strange to her other than our bed was in a different room. In my area moving out didn't offer any legal disadvantage in regards to assets, custody, etc. so one of us was going to move. We both found places and put deposits but I let him move because I had to borrow from my parents to pay both places and I didn't want to kill my credit by not paying the house.

In fact it made it a little better because he couldn't argue separation date which is the usual source of disagreements in divorce cases where I live. In my state, the separation date is when all debts and income are separated so I got to keep all my money at that point - which worked out better for me making more.

My XH played the didn't believe me thing too. He had been really passive aggressive telling me he was going to leave me, checking into hotels, telling my he was going to call lawyers, etc. Other than leaving me twice to rent a hotel he didn't follow through with any of it - it was just a bunch of threats to make me comply.

I followed through with it though and called a lawyer I wanted to mediate through and he thought I was playing chicken with him and still didn't really believe I would follow through. What he didn't know is that I already filed by myself at the court house and when the lawyer asked if we had filed anything I said 'yes but he hasn't been served'. I handed it to the lawyer, he made a copy and gave XH a form, and the lawyer made him sign for it right there and I got to serve him.
:mischief


That's what finalized things for XH and made it real to him.
 
#20 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZoeyZoo View Post

That's what finalized things for XH and made it real to him.
I don't know what is going to make it real for mine. Maybe receiving papers, maybe the court granted my temporary us of the house order, maybe he'll go to his grave thinking we're just going through a bad patch.

I offered a compromise of dividing up space in the house and coming up with a schedule for who spends which time with the kids. No response. But he's just as cheerful as ever.

I'm not sure if he's in denial, intentionally playing mind games, or completely incapable of responding to such an enormous life change in an appropriate way.
 
#23 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Lupine View Post

I don't know what is going to make it real for mine. Maybe receiving papers, maybe the court granted my temporary us of the house order, maybe he'll go to his grave thinking we're just going through a bad patch.

I offered a compromise of dividing up space in the house and coming up with a schedule for who spends which time with the kids. No response. But he's just as cheerful as ever.

I'm not sure if he's in denial, intentionally playing mind games, or completely incapable of responding to such an enormous life change in an appropriate way.
I don't think ex thought I really meant it up until he was served the papers-which was 3 months after I moved out! He was still intermittently asking me if I would come back "home" (between harassing me and telling me how terrible I am, of course) It's probably a little bit of all of those things that you listed.

I didn't tell the kids until I knew that I was moving out-mine are 6 and 3, so close in age to yours, and took it much better than I would have thought.
 
#24 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by floss&ferd View Post

I'm with Lilgreen on this one. BTDT.

My ex even suddenly fixed things/completed household projects that had been YEARS of nagging--like 8.
Ditto - mind games. My ex totally did all that, too. Suddenly he didn't even need a to-do list. He knew all the things that needed fixing. We literally had 2 ft tall TREES growing in our rain gutters around the roof, and it wasn't till after I filed that he took the 20 minutes necessary to go up there with a ladder and pull them out.
 
#25 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by bananabee View Post

Ditto - mind games. My ex totally did all that, too. Suddenly he didn't even need a to-do list. He knew all the things that needed fixing. We literally had 2 ft tall TREES growing in our rain gutters around the roof, and it wasn't till after I filed that he took the 20 minutes necessary to go up there with a ladder and pull them out.
Mine is still sitting on the couch with his iPad, while I do all the work, thinking he is being a very involved parent and partner simply by being in the room, with no idea why I don't want to be around him anymore.
 
#26 ·
I offered a compromise of splitting space and time in the house so we would have minimal interaction. He has sort of agreed, there are still details to be worked out. Maybe it will work.

But I got some indication about what he is thinking long term about custody. He said he doesn't want us to stop living in the same house until we both have a place where the kids can stay overnight. He emphasized that is really important to him. So he definitely wants the kids for overnights. He didn't specify whether that was an every other weekend type of overnight or more than that.

I think he may be getting some advice, but probably from friends and not legal advice. He's still doing close to nothing and refused my offer of having the kids two afternoons a week (he is self employed and can juggle his schedule easily). I am not sure if this is a sign that he does not want 50-50 custody, or that he has no idea what he needs to do to establish the status quo. An advantage to continuing to live together during all this is that if we end up in court, I can have documentation of how little he does.
 
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