URGENT! Help! Tetanus - ER Doctor put major pressure on us - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 44 Old 06-25-2008, 03:53 PM
 
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that IS scary! I'm sorry you had to deal with it.

Quote:
OT- did you have an ana reaction? How old were you? How many doses had you had before?
I did. First when I was an infant I had more typical allergic reactions (including hives) and my parents were told to wait till I was older, that i'd grow out of it. So when I ran into barbed wire fence at 18 they decided to try it again (in 1/4 dose) and I had an anapylactic reaction that required shots of benadryl *and* cortisone to reverse.
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#32 of 44 Old 06-25-2008, 05:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
I never said "standard practice".

I lied and said that my child is vaccinated; this was the 1980s and 1990s. My mother always did in the 1950s and 1960s. Most parents do.

The Business and Professions Code of the State of California has, as most states, a requirement that has a duty to report any and all suspected cases of child endangerment and neglect. Doctors feel that withholding vaccinations is child neglect.

There are parents who do lose custody of their children due to not vaccinating. Often the authorities are fishing for a reason that will stick to justify their investigation. I suspect the parents who lost custody of their children due to not vaccinating them are not posting their story here because they are either too busy fighting CPS, family court, the police and the AMA to get their children back, or they have been embarrassed and tired from the fight and have been cowed into an agreement and a deal that they cannot disclose.

CPS and the AMA can make life extremely difficult for parents who do not vaccinate depending on the local politics. There have been children removed from abusive parents, and the local news will always cite the fact that the children are not vaccinated as a way of uniting the community against the accused, when that is not the real reason that the case was opened against the family in the first place. One of the complaints against the religious group in TX that was recently in the news is that the children were not vaccinated.

It is used as a rallying point in favor of the state against the accused family.
I fee you very much implied it was standard when you said, "Most doctors..."

I would just like to know how much this actually happens because you imply that it happens all the time and I really don't think that is the case.
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#33 of 44 Old 06-25-2008, 06:16 PM
 
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I would just like to know how much this actually happens because you imply that it happens all the time and I really don't think that is the case.
It's pretty rare. If you don't do WBVs or have some kind of primary care doc for your kids, that, in addition to nonvaxing, can be considered a "red flag" by CPS, but it's not "medical neglect" in and of itself.
I've heard a couple of anecdotes about crazy pedis threatening to call CPS over the newborn HepB in the hospital, but in every story where the parents stood their ground, the hospital social worker sided with the parents in the end.
That said, there probably are some insanely provax CPS workers out there that might care more about what they personally perceive as medical neglect than what the law states.
But overall, it's not really too high on my radar of things to sit up at night worrying about.
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#34 of 44 Old 06-25-2008, 06:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
From my experience, you are lucky you were able to leave with your baby. Most doctors view not vaccinating as child neglect and would turn your child over to CPS asap.
Most doctors? Really?

I'm sorry, but this is the sort of statement that gets MDC its "wacko" reputation in certain circles. If most doctors really turned the children of non-vaccinating parents over to CPS, life would be very different in the USA.

Sure, doctors *can* make life difficult for parents who don't vaccinate. Some doctors have done this. But "most" i.e. the majority of them do not. Believe me, I live in a very crunchy town. Non vaccinators are everywhere. This would be an awfully hot topic if there were any truth to it.
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#35 of 44 Old 06-25-2008, 07:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
The only reason that CPS is not busy with nonvaxers now is because of the public reaction against vaxes since the thimerasol controversy since 1998, the DPT scare of the early 1980s, the foundation of NVIC, and the formation of the federal vaccine court, all that was preceded by the swine flu vaccine fiasco of 1976.
So are you saying that prior to 1976, CPS *was* busy with nonvaxers?

I respect your passion and your life experience on this issue but I still maintain that grossly misleading statements like the one you made about "most doctors" give MDC an (undeserved, for the most part) reputation.
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#36 of 44 Old 06-25-2008, 07:49 PM
 
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So are you saying that prior to 1976, CPS *was* busy with nonvaxers?
Did I say that?

Nonvaxers were pretty much unseen prior to 1976. There are few around here on MDC, but none of us were advertising it, believe me. I never went to a pediatrician and none of my siblings did either. My Father's colleagues saw us on an as needed basis. He was a DC and they were DCs, DOs, NDs, and MDs who were former DCs.

I do not know where CPS was then, but I do know there was little funding for few social work; the government input $ for social work grew after the Great Society programs grew in the late 1960s and later.

"Vaccines are like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get - acute hemorrhagic edema of infancy, allergies, anaphylaxis, asthma, autoimmune disease, diabetes, eczema, petit/gran mal seizures, fibromyalgia, Henoch-Schonlein purpua, Dravet's Syndrome, Retts Syndrome, Sweet's Syndrome, Hughes Syndrome, encephalitis, speech delay, tics, neurological damage, coma, ADEM, ADHD, AFP, ASIA, CFS, CRPS, GBS, ITP, JPA, JRA, LGS, LKS, MS, OMS, ORS, PANDAS, PANS, PINTANDS, POF, POTS, RA, SIDS, SJS, SLE, SPD, SUDS, TPI, the disease one is being vaccinated against, or death."

Paraphrased from "Forrest Gump".

List from the drug companies' own package inserts that come with their product as required by law.
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#37 of 44 Old 06-26-2008, 02:06 PM
 
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To get back to the original topic...

Vaccines are NOT emergency medicine. If the doc were truly concerned about tetanus s/he would have pushed TIG (tetanus immune globulin).
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#38 of 44 Old 06-26-2008, 04:07 PM
 
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So, what about for previously vaxed folks - does getting a tetanus booster shot, after a wound help them? Or would you still really want/need TIG?
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#39 of 44 Old 06-26-2008, 05:07 PM
 
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#40 of 44 Old 06-26-2008, 05:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
From my experience, you are lucky you were able to leave with your baby. Most doctors view not vaccinating as child neglect and would turn your child over to CPS asap.
That's exactly why I wouldn't want to take my kid to the ER, too many authoratative doctors around.

Circ doesn't work! Stop the violence of circumcison. Had another UP/UC/HB in August!
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#41 of 44 Old 06-26-2008, 08:47 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kidspiration View Post
The DT is NOT approved for children below the age of seven.

In addition, the multi-dose vial formulation of DT has the FULL amount of thimerosal (mercury) in it. The single-dose vial still has trace amounts, as does some versions of the DTaP.
The DT is "ok" for kids under 7; the Td is not ok for kids over 7.

I know this because we had our DS receive the trace-thimerosal DT a few weeks ago at age 3, after having no DTaPs since he was 7 months. He did react (fever, pain, occasional delirium over a 12-hour period) and it's now in his file, so I can be reminded in 5-10 years when his doctor brings it up again. (The nurse was surprised he had that sort of reaction; we believed he would be ok, but didn't believe that we would choose to have him receive the vaccine again.)

This thread is so helpful. I would think that doctors would definitely give the TiG if they really thought there was a problem. DS's ped. seemed to suggest that she'd give it to any unvaccinated child for any injury...but I'm sure that wouldn't really be the case.
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#42 of 44 Old 06-26-2008, 09:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by applejuice View Post
You may want to check this thread out. Are we all making it up?
I checked it out. Of the two pages I read, only one seemed to mention vaccines and 86% had never had problems with CPS. So why were you referring to this thread in conjunction with vaccines and refusing to give them? Seems most of the stories had nothing to do with vaccines.

It just sounds alarmist to categorize all doctors as just a step away from calling CPS. I know they push and dismiss patients from practices and do all sorts of annoying things, but the rate that you are hinting at of them calling CPS is just not happening from what I can tell.
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#43 of 44 Old 06-27-2008, 05:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by nicolebeth View Post
The DT is "ok" for kids under 7; the Td is not ok for kids over 7.

I know this because we had our DS receive the trace-thimerosal DT a few weeks ago at age 3, after having no DTaPs since he was 7 months. He did react (fever, pain, occasional delirium over a 12-hour period) and it's now in his file, so I can be reminded in 5-10 years when his doctor brings it up again. (The nurse was surprised he had that sort of reaction; we believed he would be ok, but didn't believe that we would choose to have him receive the vaccine again.)

This thread is so helpful. I would think that doctors would definitely give the TiG if they really thought there was a problem. DS's ped. seemed to suggest that she'd give it to any unvaccinated child for any injury...but I'm sure that wouldn't really be the case.
Sorry to hear that your DS reacted to the vaccine... I also clarified and found that there is a ped DT, but haven't gone over all the ingredients yet...
I have been saying to DH that I'd vax against Tetanus, but am now really not that sure.. gonna find out about TIG here in Israel and whether they are from humans or animals (I read that it is mostly from horses???)
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#44 of 44 Old 06-27-2008, 06:01 AM
 
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GRRR! Just received my copy of the Vaccine Book by Sears and have to say I am really disappointed... just squizzed through the tetanus chapter and:

If an unvaccinated person gets a deep puncture wound that can't easily be flushed out or a large deep wound with dirt in it, a vaccine at the time may help prevent tetanus

He does go on to recommend TIG if there is a very high chance of tetanus, but that also seems silly to me... why differentiate between high and low risk wounds other than to push vax??

Just annoyed as was hoping this book would help me and DH have a healthy chat about our decision, but not so trusting of what he is writing now
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