What could be wrong with this kid? - Mothering Forums
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 23 Old 06-06-2008, 12:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
raelize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 810
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
this actually isn't about my kid, it is about my friends kid. we both have 2.5 y.o. dds who have known each other since they were about 8 months old.
they both seem to hit milestones around the same time, or within a month. but, her daughter displays some stange behavior that i originally thought was with the range of normal for a 12-20 m.o., but she hasn't grown out of it, and it seems to be getting worse.
she doesn't seem to have an attachment to her mother. she will easlily and happily walk off with a stranger. i don't mean she is friendly, she would completely wakl away from her mother with a stranger and not even blink twice. she will often ignore her mother and go to a complete stranger for help or to play or even for comfort. her mom gets very upet about it and frustrated. the l.o. has a lot of speech problems, her mother has never said anythign about it, but...i think that even the mom misses more than 50% of what the girl says. i would get my dd checked if she spoke that way. she talks in a kind of montone voice, although she does inflect if upset. she will make eye contact if she chooses to, if she approches you, but if you approach her she will avoid eye contact. she has a very difficlut time following directions. she is very destructive- but not in an angry way, just pulls stuff apart and is very hard on everything. we don't have playdates at our house anymore cause she destroyed to many of my dd's toys.
seh also doesn't understand simple consequences or cause and effects. for example, if you say, " we need to put the groceries away and then we can play with your toys" she doesn't seem to understand that. or " if we leave the playground now we can stop at the library, if you want to play more than we can't go to the library".
she doesn't seem to have a complete disconnect from social attachment, she likes her grandmother and she likes my dd. but soemthing seems off to me. i don't really know how to bring it up to her mom except to say soemthign seems off. but i don't know what specifically is off.
any ideas??? am i just being a worrier and this falls within the normal range of 2 y.o. behavior? i don't want to say anything if i am wrong cause her mother seems to be pretty sensitive about it and i am one of her only mom friends.
any help?
thanks,
rachel
raelize is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 23 Old 06-06-2008, 01:07 AM
Banned
 
thebarkingbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
maybe there's nothing wrong with her? i'm willing to bet that she "gets" cause and effect but has trouble acting upon it.

what kind of trouble is the mother having? it sounds like the mother is the one who is having the most emotional upset.
thebarkingbird is offline  
#3 of 23 Old 06-06-2008, 01:09 AM
 
acannon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 1,132
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It could be Asperger's. I would go off with people when I was little like that and I have Asperger's. The monotone voice and lack of eye contact also tipped it off for me. I'm not quite sure if that's what's going on with her, because I have never met her, but that's my educated guess. I'm not sure if I would say anything to her, though. It will become more apparent to the mother when her daughter starts school and is around her peers more, and then maybe she'll think to get her evaluated, if that's what's needed.

ETA: I don't have a 2.5 yo so I don't know what's "normal" for that age. That's just what jumped out to me.
acannon is offline  
 
#4 of 23 Old 06-06-2008, 01:19 AM - Thread Starter
 
raelize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 810
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
yes, the mother is having some issues right now. which is what makes it hard to figure out- chicken and egg, right? at the same time, what i don't get is the attachment issue. she is a tandem nursed, very ap'ed kid, so i would think that even though her family/mom may have some issues, wouldn't she be somewhat attached to her mom?

but, i was also thinking aspergers cause of the eye contact.

the reason that i am even thinkng about bringing this up is cause 1) they are planning on homeschooling and 2) they are a very hermit-like family. they don't have that many friends and it would be very typical for them to not see other people or to avoid a lot of situtations because of their dd's behavior (and their inability to control it). so, i am kind of concerned that it won't get picked up. she told me today that her husband has spanked her on a couple of occasions for her behavior and that mom is worried and talked about it with dh, BUT, that he is at wits end and she doesn't know what to do cause positive discipline techniques and even mainstream ones (like naughty chair stuff) doesn't seem to work at all.

i know- how ap...they spank. : can you even say a family is ap when the dad spanks???
raelize is offline  
#5 of 23 Old 06-06-2008, 01:22 AM
 
soso-lynn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,222
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agree that it could potentially be Asperger's. I get confused with similar cause and effect things sometimes (not because of not getting the cause-effect, more because of not getting why those things are so important).

Otherwise, language varies quite a bit from child to child. DD is almost 4 and she does not speak as 'well' as most of her friends, yet she is still perfectly 'normal'. At 2.5, I could barely make out anything she was saying while our neighbour a few months younger spoke in pretty sentences.

I don't know how I would bring it up. I would probably just say whatever comes to mind and be surprised at the negative reaction, but that's just me.

Single mom to E (2004) and D (2010)
soso-lynn is offline  
#6 of 23 Old 06-06-2008, 01:36 AM
Banned
 
thebarkingbird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 984
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i meant that maybe the way the child is acting is normal for her. it does sound like autism spectrum stuff to me.

i meant that the daughter will not likely change who she is so maybe what the family needs more than anything is for mom to have help dealing with her frustrations which are very reasonable, especially if she's never seen a child behave like that.
thebarkingbird is offline  
#7 of 23 Old 06-06-2008, 12:28 PM
 
2bluefish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,441
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The destructive thing is very typical. Some kids are hard on things, some aren't. DD at 3.5 is so hard on things. Her brother going on 2 never destroys things the way dd did. Some of it may be sensory seeking. I just realized the other day. Oh, ds1 has never taken off his diaper and smeared poop all over his bed. Thank goodness we only had to go through that with dd!

"if we leave the playground now we can stop at the library, if you want to play more than we can't go to the library". <--This is pretty complicated for a 2.5 year old. Instead I would say "Do you want to go to the library or play more in the park?" Maybe followed with "Pick one, cause we can't do both." Maybe your child is gifted enough to understand that complicated question, but I don't think that is typical. My dd is very verbal, but I would have confused her at that age with that long set up.
2bluefish is offline  
#8 of 23 Old 06-06-2008, 02:08 PM
 
wytchywoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Room of Requirement
Posts: 2,862
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I second the ASC stuff, sounds like it to me too, although there is a possibility that the little girl could be suffering from facial blindness exclusively or in additio to an ASC. here's a link:

http://thiswayoflife.org/faceblind.html

M : proud mama to B (16) : and G (8) and : x 2 :
wytchywoman is offline  
#9 of 23 Old 06-06-2008, 02:35 PM
 
Village Mama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Beautiful British Columbia
Posts: 3,325
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
She is sooo young too. Too young to jump to conclusions. I can think of a couple of kids who were exactly like this when they were that age but are " normal" by kindergarten entrance age.

:
Village Mama is offline  
#10 of 23 Old 06-06-2008, 02:56 PM
 
wendy1221's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,301
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
She's only 2.5. I wouldn't worry about anything just yet. And I personally get really offended when people point out that our "hermitlike lifestyle" and homeschooling are bad for my kids "just" b/c they have Asperger's. As if FORCING them to be in social situations would be GOOD for them, which I completely disagree with. Obviously, she's not THAT hermitlike, she DOES socialize with you, right? And my ds's self-esteem was suffering in public school. Homeschooling him and only being "forced" to socialize with kids in our neighborhood (including our neighbors who hs and we see daily) and when out and about at museums, stores, etc, has beeen MUCH better for him socially. Plus we have more time to work on his OT and he gets a LOT more therapy than he would if he were in school all day. THey're SUPPOSED to do therapies with kids at school if needed, but at least around here, it just doesn't happen.
wendy1221 is offline  
#11 of 23 Old 06-06-2008, 06:28 PM
 
bdavis337's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sleep Deprivation, USA
Posts: 5,976
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Mark would take off with anyone who asked him to go. Just up and walk away, sometimes he even initiates the whole thing. Scares the heck out of me. He asked one of the IEP evaluators to take him to the bathroom, and he'd only met her a few minutes beforehand.

I agree with the pp's. Sounds asc-ish.
bdavis337 is offline  
#12 of 23 Old 06-06-2008, 06:42 PM
 
themamamama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 289
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I just want to add one thing here that I don't think anyone has said yet -- just because she would walk away with a stranger does not necessarily mean she is not attached to her mother. If she does have an autism spectrum condition, she may not be able to show her attachment in typical ways. My son has never told me he loves me, never gives me spontaneous hugs, would walk away from me without a backward look, but he is deeply, deeply attached to me. We connect in other ways, ways you might not recognize.

Mama to sweet, funny Eli 9/05 and snuggly Akash 12/09
themamamama is offline  
#13 of 23 Old 06-07-2008, 12:49 AM
 
sbgrace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 9,138
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My ASC kiddo really responds to certain people (strangers) and will just walk away with them too. He is very attached to me. However, he at that age did not seek me out particularly when hurt and still doesn't when he's scared. He just doesn't find comfort in that way I guess. I think kids not on the spectrum may have personalities like that too (the responding to strangers thing)...and in fact remember my parents having some scary situations with my youngest sister. She's certainly not autism spectrum at all.

So I don't think you can or should jump to conclusions and definitely do not mention autism to the parents. In general you have to be really careful in approaching anything with parents in fact. If mom expresses frustration perhaps you can suggest she come here and post for ideas or maybe suggest an early intervention evaluation if you think she has speech issues. But honestly it sounds like she's not particularly delayed. Maybe she's got some sensory stuff going on though or perhaps she just has a very challenging personality!

Rachelle, mommy to 8 year old boys! 

My Blog-free homeschooling finds and my lesson plans and link to the new User Agreement

sbgrace is offline  
#14 of 23 Old 06-07-2008, 12:59 AM
 
Kristine233's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Way Northern MN
Posts: 3,972
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
My NT oldest DD did all of that. i think this can be very normal for a lot of kids. Sure, it does sound like ASC but I would think its kinda early and only based on that, not convinced, nothing earth shattering anyways.

But when you are looking for specific things and have a specific thing in mind its easy to find the "symptoms" and "quirks" in any kiddo who doesn't follow our ideal picture of what a child is "supposed" to look and act like. *wink* Oh, and its a common misconception that ASC kids and adult don't have attachments to people or are non-emotional. I find the opposite is more common. *shrug*

BTW, IMO attachment parenting doesn't mean a child is clingy or "attached" in that way. Doesn't the idea of attachment parenting include raising independent and strong kids? So, in that case, wouldn't a child being secure and independent be a sign of AP? Just throwing that out there. (Of course I don't believe its one way or the other, just a thought to ponder)

Mom to Joscelyne 14, Andrew 12, and Mackenzie 10 and wife to Nate.
Kristine233 is offline  
#15 of 23 Old 06-07-2008, 02:49 AM
 
Shiloh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: listening to kriping churckets
Posts: 6,733
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I think its a little early, my 3 year old barely had 20 words total at that age...he's adjusting well now.

but it could be something as simple as hearing issues as well, some kids really don't hear well if they've had repeated ear infections...like hearing under water...

also if she doesn't believe play time is over or don't break the toys maybe mom has few limits for her or doesn't follow through - if no means yes in two minutes in her house...then no means nothing

8 might be enough?
Or maybe 9 will be?
EDD September 18, 2015
Shiloh is offline  
#16 of 23 Old 06-08-2008, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
raelize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 810
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i totally agree with the post about homeschool- i plan on homeschooling and don't think that it is bad or dangerous/neglectful at all. but, then you can't think that someone else is going to pick up on special needs a kid might have. how many asperger adults didn't get "diagnosed" until late in their life?
not due to homeschooling, but they suffered misunderstanding earlier in life?
i also think that she is young, therefore, it is hard to definately point to anything that couldn't be age related differences. and it is easy to look for symptoms/signs and see them. and i have no experiance with AS kids, but i thought that the best ages for "diagnosis" is around 2-3 that way they get early intervention that alleviates a lot of the issues.

really, my worry is about the parents becoming abusive. no kid should be hit or spanked, but i think particularly a special needs kid kid shouldn't cause it is really just their way of dealing with the world. i was hoping that something would jump out at somebody so that i could mention it to the mom as a starting point. i think what i am going to do is say," if you and dh are this frustrated with her, maybe you should start looking at "spirited" kids discipline techniques. maybe you should get her tested for some kind of sensory type issues. i think that physical punishment is not the way to go and will make long term issues "
anyway, thanks for the help.
rachel
raelize is offline  
#17 of 23 Old 06-08-2008, 09:42 PM
 
DQMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,035
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
What I got out of that comment is, maybe the mom has not been around a range of kids (typical, not typical) so she doesn't know what "typical" 2.5 yo behavior is and therefore wouldn't be able to determine if she should seek services for her child. I didn't think you meant that not having a lot of family friends is bad for a kid w/ Asperger's.

Also, even if you homeschool, you are entitled to services if you want. For example, my ds is attending a low-ratio pre-K instead of public pre-K but I can still take him to the local elementary school for speech and OT if he qualifies (I got him private evals and he qualified but we are waiting to see if ins. will pay--I don't think it will and if it won't, we will go through the school system).
DQMama is offline  
#18 of 23 Old 06-08-2008, 10:02 PM
 
Jennifer Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,755
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
There are some red flags there for autistic spectrum. Sadly, it can be a lot more difficult for people to recognize Autistic traits in girls, so if there are issues, she might be both in denial, and have professionals that are in denial too.

I also have to say, as the mom of an NT dd who will be 2.5 later this month, that I am not sure if she would understand the complicated directions you were giving when you gave the example of cause and effect. Maybe it is because I am more used to my Autistic son, but I see that dd is far more able to follow those kinds of directions, but not to the level you describe. She is watched pretty carefully for developmental appropriateness by ds' team of STs and OTs and there is isn't much doubt in my mind she is very much in the range of normal.

Check around your community and see if they have any kid check programs going on. Here you can take your child to the university and have them do a screening. (it is called "Screen for Success" here) It is free, it isn't a full evaluation, but if they see some red flags, they can recommend an evaluation. You guys could go together since it is for anybody and everybody and your kids are the same age.

If they don't have any of those types of screening programs, you can also do Early Intervention if she is under 3 (in most states). I would REALLY recommend she gets seen before three, before you are tangled into the school system if she is planning on homeschooling. In some areas there is a HUGE amount of pressure on homeschoolers with special needs kids to put them in school.

Mom to 10yo Autistic Wonder Boy and 6yo Inquisitive Fireball Girl . December birthdays.

Jennifer Z is offline  
#19 of 23 Old 06-08-2008, 10:30 PM
 
VisionaryMom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rachel_eva View Post
how many asperger adults didn't get "diagnosed" until late in their life?
I'm about 90% sure I'd be dx with Asperger's if I were a child today, and I wasn't homeschooled. Even my mother was commenting on how now when she reads things on Asperger's, she thinks it sounded like me as a child. But you know what? It hasn't hurt my life. I enjoy being a hermit, and eye contact is pretty painful, so I just avoid it and move on with my life.

It's us: DH , DS ; DD ; and me . Also there's the . And the 3 . I . Oh, and .
VisionaryMom is offline  
#20 of 23 Old 06-09-2008, 01:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
raelize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 810
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer Z View Post

If they don't have any of those types of screening programs, you can also do Early Intervention if she is under 3 (in most states). I would REALLY recommend she gets seen before three, before you are tangled into the school system if she is planning on homeschooling. In some areas there is a HUGE amount of pressure on homeschoolers with special needs kids to put them in school.
this is why i was thinking about talking to her now, for the early intervention programs. i have a neice who had an undiagnosed but pretty severe speech developmental disorder. she wasn't diagnosed cause the parents were in COMPLETE denial, even after the doc said they should get her tested, and now she is so far behind that it will probably affect her development in other language areas (reading and writing) and will probably be a very longterm issue.
raelize is offline  
#21 of 23 Old 06-09-2008, 12:42 PM
 
AuntLavender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I only ask because I have four and so I have some experience on how children differ from each other even within the same family.

My NT girls have more of your Autistic red flags than my boys who actually have Autism!

It's funny how careful my 10 1/2 yo dd is now because she was very destructive as a child. She really likes sculpture and frequently has her art picked for exhibition at our local art school. I can't help but wonder if her early destructiveness was really typical childlike curiosity at how things work/are made?

Eye contact is overrated. None of my children liked to look at strangers or people they didn't see everyday.

My boys with Autism show love at home but not publicly. How sad it would be to hear someone snapshot diagnose me an an unloved mother with unattached children.

I spanked one of my children once. I was angry. I told my child I was sorry that I hit. I am human. It doesn't mean I am an abuser or that I will become one. I am amazed at how my children hit each other (rarely but it happens) because I don't model that behavior. It comes naturally and must be taught that hitting is not right.

Homeschooling can be great for some children Autistic or not. The main reason I homeschool is to avoid the damaging socialization in public schools. I have homeschooled for only six years now and I can tell you my children are positively socialized despite our hermit-like existance (we don't hole up in our house exclusively but to others it might seem that way not knowing us personally).

It's great that you are concerned for your friend's child. My oldest learned to read at 4 and my SILs firstborn would ask my son "What's that say?" because he couldn't read. I did not bring it up knowing that once her son learned to read at 6 it wouldn't matter that my son had been reading for two years already.

Let's let children act their age with no preconceived notions about how they should act.

Sincerely,
Debra, homeschooling mom of 4 ages 11 1/2, 10 1/2, 8 1/2, and 5
AuntLavender is offline  
#22 of 23 Old 06-09-2008, 02:31 PM
 
MamaLuvsYa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: A stone cottage
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If this little girl has issues, and your loving concern helps to get early intervention for her, what a huge difference it will make for her and her family.

I appreciate that it's really hard to approach people about parenting issues, but if you are truly concerned, it's the right thing to do. Just be as gentle as you can be, without waffling.

Maybe you could ask- when the child walks away for instance - "Are you concerned about this behavior?" Or mention an article, book or website that addresses the issue, i.e., "I was reading this article about XYZ Syndrome and it sounded just like what your dd is doing." Maybe all you need to do is plant the thought in her mind. Maybe this lady needs someone to talk to who will back up her thoughts about getting the dd checked out.

Prayers going up for both wonderful mommies!
Marilyn
MamaLuvsYa is offline  
#23 of 23 Old 06-09-2008, 06:51 PM
 
Jennifer Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,755
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rachel_eva View Post
this is why i was thinking about talking to her now, for the early intervention programs. i have a neice who had an undiagnosed but pretty severe speech developmental disorder. she wasn't diagnosed cause the parents were in COMPLETE denial, even after the doc said they should get her tested, and now she is so far behind that it will probably affect her development in other language areas (reading and writing) and will probably be a very longterm issue.

Although it is a very atypical way to learn language, my son is learning to speak after learning to read and write. He could say words before he could read (maybe...it is entirely possible he was reading at two, and I saw him paging through books as if he was reading back then), but only to lable, not to converse. He reads above age level, and after lots of work in OT (which didn't start until he was 4yo) can write at an age appropriate level.

I am not saying that starting services later than usual is the most desirable by any means, but I am saying that the quality of services has a big impact too. We didn't start any formal ST or OT until he was 4yo (I was in denial BIG TIME), and, although I regret that I was in denial for so long, I also think he is doing really well.

Mom to 10yo Autistic Wonder Boy and 6yo Inquisitive Fireball Girl . December birthdays.

Jennifer Z is offline  
Reply


User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Online Users: 978

14 members and 964 guests
CooperSan , DeonIvan , Donohue6 , Groov1r , idler , KerriB , lauritagoddess , lmaraial57 , PrayerOFChrist , satkins , Stewace , SueLawrenceh9h , tarbertsand , verticalscope
Most users ever online was 21,860, 06-22-2018 at 09:45 PM.