oh this awful, awful dog. vent. plus advice would be ok. - Mothering Forums

 
Thread Tools
#1 of 25 Old 11-12-2004, 02:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
sunbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: lost in space
Posts: 838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
a guy came by today for some business with dh. let his dog out of the truck. the dog promptly bee lined for dd's kitten, who fought back a bit, but couldnt resist the big dog, who got his jaws on the kitten, and seemed like he was going to kill him, except that dh grabbed dog by the collar and fur on his back and threw him off the porch. at which point the kitten ran up a tree, but the dog went after my 14 yo BLIND kitty. i dont know how my kitty got away, but he got up a tree, and the dog only bit him once.

i was outraged. i yelled at the dog owner and i am still mad. this all happened hours ago, and i am just so angry still. i feel like the dog acted really dangerously. he is a big malamute cross and seemed like he was way more into it than a fun little cat chase, it seemed more like he was going for blood. although dh has pointed out that if he was a super serious killer maybe our cats would be more hurt. kitten only got a puncture wound, my old cat seems ok, just terrified. i am so mad this idiot let his dog out. i was so afraid dd was going to witness the bloody death of her kitten.

i am extra mad because this guy got the dog from a rescue only two weeks ago, and while he appologetically paid the vet bill for our kitten, he intends to keep the dog. i just feel like there are so many good dogs out there, and this is not one of them. he's only had the dog for two weeks. why not return it to the rescue and get a safer one, who wont harm anyone else's pets? maybe i am blinded by love for my old cat, but he is sucha good loving gentle boy,always so tender with dd from day one, and along comes this awful dog, scares us all to death, and i just feel like holy cow, get a nice dog. too bad for the dog, its probably not his fault, but he is *just a dog*, get rid of him.

so, all you dog experts, what would you do? keep this dog? let him go? is he worth it? would you trust him around kids? i worry that he acted so crazy he might have a screw loose. i worry that the rescue might not have had enough info to give this guy for him to really know this dogs history, or why he was at a rescue in the first palce. i know i cant actually decide anything about the dog's fate, its up to the owner, i am just curious wether you all think i am being rational or just plain pissed.
sunbaby is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 25 Old 11-12-2004, 02:59 AM
 
MamaAllNatural's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Nearest chair with *ONE* nursling!
Posts: 6,882
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
That is horrible. That man doesn't sound like a responsible owner at all. You can't let your dog off its leash unless you have 100% control of it. I have read that dogs who kill cats and other small animals are dangerous and way more likely to attack a small child - or worse. I would NEVER let your kid around that dog. He needs to keep his dog on a leash. He needs to get it trained. Also, it really does sound like he wanted to hurt the cats. I read a lot about dogs when I got mine and all of this does not sound good.

Your poor little kitties.
MamaAllNatural is offline  
#3 of 25 Old 11-12-2004, 03:44 AM
 
Jennifer Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,755
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Can you call the shelter he got it from and see if there is anything that can be done? If he got it that recently, there is a good chance they still remember him or the dog. At the very least, it might prevent him from owning any future dogs if he isn't a responsible dog owner.

Mom to 10yo Autistic Wonder Boy and 6yo Inquisitive Fireball Girl . December birthdays.

Jennifer Z is offline  
 
#4 of 25 Old 11-12-2004, 04:40 AM
 
LadyWulf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Anniston, AL
Posts: 972
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Well i hate to be the voice of the dog here BUT. Many dogs have higher prey drives than others. IT IN NO WAY means that dog is going to for sure bite a person. It is totally natural for a dog to go after a cat or other small animal. Dogs CAN differentiate between other animals and people...even small children. Just because a dog doesn't like cats or other dogs doesn't mean it is vicious or that it is people aggressive.

Malamutes and Huskys tend to be more "instincutal" when it comes to small animals than other breeds. Greyhounds will chase small animals period but not many people would call a greyhound vicious for going after a small animal because that is what they are bred and trained to do on the race tracks. Not saying that anyone has said this dog is vicious.

I do agree that the owner was grossly neglegent in letting the dog out of his vehicle off leash and especially only having the dog for 2 weeks. My dogs don't step foot out my door without a leash on and even inside the car they keep it on. Hopefully he learned his lesson and in the future will keep his dog leashed when he is out in public and at home (if he doesn't have a fence). An unleashed dog isn't safe for other animals or theirselves. That he apoligised and paid for the vet bills for your kitties sayes that he regrets what happened.

Is your cat *just a cat*? I am sure this guy feels the same about his dog that you feel about your cat. Dumping the dog back at the shelter would probably be a death sentence for him. *you* might think that is the thing that should be done due to your experience with the dog. I understand your anger. But you don't know that what this dog is like at his home. Maybe he is the perfect pet for this man and his family. He probably doesn't have other animals. I would give him the benefit of the doubt and just assume that this was the first time he had put the dog in this position and trust that he won't do the same thing again since he saw what happened. Obviously because he does intend to keep the dog he has made a commitment to the dog. Hopefully this commitment will include some obedience training and the open mindedness enough to learn from his mistakes.

BTW i have a dog that WOULD literally kill a cat or other small animal if she had the chance. However she is better with my kids than any other dog i have ever seen and is a very loved member of our family. I have worked with dogs pretty much all my life. I have worked with a master trainer for a long time and learned a lot about dog behavior. I have also worked for the Humane Society and i have seen first hand what happens to all the dogs and cats people say are "just a dog" or "just a cat". I have petted them and cared for them and then had to kill them because there wasn't anymore room and more were coming through the door. In ONE DAY at our shelter we had to euthanize 123 cats and kittens and over 80 dogs that came in that day because all the cages were full.
LadyWulf is offline  
#5 of 25 Old 11-12-2004, 04:40 AM
 
Lady Madonna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Washington State
Posts: 604
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
If you feel very strongly about this, you can call your local Animal Control and inform them of the incident. In some cases, they will contact the owner of the dog and investigate. They may require that the owner get training for the dog. They may also inform the owner that if another incident is reported, the animal will be quarantined or euthanized as a dangerous animal. I think sometimes a visit from someone "official" can knock some sense into someone much more thoroughly than words from anyone else.

I hope your cats are OK!

Mama to DD : (7/23/03) & DS : (10/27/06) married to DH 7/20/01
and yet 90% more mainstream than the rest of MDC
Lady Madonna is offline  
#6 of 25 Old 11-12-2004, 05:14 AM
 
grisandole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,127
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 15 Post(s)
Well, some dogs don't get along with cats, not the dogs fault at all! It's the owners fault for being irresponsible and letting him off a leash.

There are many breeds of dogs that unless they are socialized from puppyhood with cats, see them as prey. Pretty natural. Just because a dog goes after cats doesn't make them "bad". It does make them more challenging, and they do require very responsible ownership.

My parents have Greyhounds; rescues from the racetracks, they are BRED and RAISED and TRAINED to go after small prey (rabbits at the track)......the majority will not get along with cats, and most won't even get along with small dogs. These are not bad dogs at all.

I'm sorry that your cats got hurt and scared, but your anger should be at him not the dog.

Kristi
grisandole is offline  
#7 of 25 Old 11-12-2004, 11:15 AM
 
Lila Sue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Honah Lee
Posts: 73
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Yep, I agree that the person was completely out of line. It seems to me that adopting a malamute from a rescue is an irresponsible thing for a novice dog handler to do. Malamutes & huskies were bred to survive and be useful to their people under very harsh conditions. They require special care to fit into modern life, and oftentimes people don't realize it/aren't willing to provide it. Hence the huge numbers of these dogs in rescue. No doubt they deserve good homes, but they're not "starter dogs."

I would keep my kids away from this dog. Not because the dog went for your cats (that's excusable in a dog--it was the owner's fault,) but because the owner has shown himself to be irresponsible. Maybe the dog is fine with kids, but you have no way of knowing. You can't take the owner's word for it, and it's not something you want to experiment with.
Lila Sue is offline  
#8 of 25 Old 11-12-2004, 11:56 AM
 
Breathless Wonder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Agreeing with the PPs. Malamutes as a breed are not particularly good with other animals.

I am not one to generally suggest reporting things to "agencies" right off the bat, but I would suggest filing a report regarding this dog. This is a big animal, it doesn't sound as if he was on a leash, and whether or not the dog was, it doesn't sound like the owner could control the dog. It also does not sound like this man has any clue about the breed characteristics. All of these factors combined together sound like a dangerous combination. And in many states, nothing can be done about a dangerous dog until it has bitten or attacked 3 times.

He who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe is as good as dead; his eyes are closed.  ~Albert Einstein
Breathless Wonder is offline  
#9 of 25 Old 11-12-2004, 12:03 PM
 
oohlalabags's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 197
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i agree with ladywulf ... probably not a bad dog just needs a better owner ... that will give him training and a leash ... i would let him know that the dog is not welcome at your house
oohlalabags is offline  
#10 of 25 Old 11-12-2004, 12:47 PM
 
shannon0218's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
For sure this is an owner problem not a dog problem. The fact that your kitten had a puncture says to me that this dog indeed intended to hurt. Our little Scout gets chased and caught on a daily basis not only by our own dogs but by some of my clients dogs--he's never had so much as a mark on him and I've never seen him leave claw marks on a dog.
I agree with the poster who said not to trust the dog around your children, this dog may be a perfect gentleman with children, but that the owner would just let this dog off leash at a new location without asking you if it was alright tells me he would have NO IDEA what this dog is like with children.
This was a STUPID mistake, hopefully this dog owner has been scared into not ever doing this again, I don't think I'd bother reporting it though, he paid your vet bill, let him know his dog is NEVER to be allowed out of his vehicle at your house again and advise him to seek training for this dog.
I have a dog who is with me 24/7 and my business is in dogs--I don't ever let him out of my truck at a clients house off leash--and he is completely 100% controllable off lead. The level of control required to allow your dog to just jump out at a strange location is one that I would say only 2% of the dog population has--and those of us who have it--are unlikely to ever do something like that.
shannon0218 is offline  
#11 of 25 Old 11-12-2004, 01:07 PM
 
shelbean91's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 9,290
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
If that were my dog, I would be blaming myself for the bad actions of my dog and would do everythign I could do to prevent it from happening. My guess is he had a previous dog who he could trust off leash like that and assumed he could trust his new dog the same way. All dogs are different and hopefully he learned his lesson.

I completely understand the way you feel toward the dog. I'm sorry your kitties were hurt. I hope they get well soon.

Michelle -mom to Katlyn 4/00 , Jake 3/02, and Seth 5/04
shelbean91 is offline  
#12 of 25 Old 11-12-2004, 01:30 PM
 
mermommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Stuck in the middle with you.
Posts: 1,532
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'm sorry that the kitties were hurt and scared
I think the main problem, as others have said, was with the owner. He is not familiar with his new dog and does not have controll over it yet. He made a mistake when he let it out of the car - and he did realise that ( you said he paid the vet bills) . Now if he repeated the mistake or made no effort to get better controll over his dog then I would say that the authorities should be contacted. If this was, sadly, what was a needed wake up call for him then maybe things will work out with the situation. i'm sorry your cats had to be involved.

As it stands tho I would ask that the dog be kept away from my animals and especially my kids, just to be safe.

Myr: wife to John 8/98 and mommy to Willow 06/03, Rowan 04/07 and Linden 02/10
mermommy is offline  
#13 of 25 Old 11-12-2004, 01:45 PM
 
Parthenia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Western Mass
Posts: 1,703
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I agree with Lady Wulf. Bad owner for putting the dog in a situation where it could hurt something before he really knew the dog.

I would not trust my dog around cats, and in her old age she's not too friendly around dogs, although she's too old to chase anything now. We live in a neigborhood with a lot of cats, and just don't take her off leash when we go walking. She's very trustworthy around human children, though. Even still she takes a long time to warm up to strangersWhen we have guests I generally crate her anyway, just to make our guests who may not be dog people feel comfortable. And the dog, seems to enjoy the security of the crate when strangers are around. Our dog is also a rescue, and a trainer worked with her and me before I was allowed to take her home. She's never hurt another animal or bitten a person. She did nip a former roommate, who snatched a bone she was chewing on "just for fun".

OTOH my SIL's dog is a repeat biter of people but great around cats and other dogs. I think she puts the dog in situations where a disaster is bound to happen, and she's lucky no one her dog has bitten has sued her. He has broken the skin. He once bit SIL's aunt in the face and required her to go to the ER. I thought that would have been the end of the dog, but no. That was 6 years ago, the dog is still around, and has since bitten other people! SIL's dog is also a rescue dog, and to her credit she's worked with him and he's much better than he used to be. But he's not a safe dog, and she keeps putting him in situations where he's bound to get aggressive or frightened and ultimately bites someone.

Since SIL doesn't take responsibility for her dog, and brings him everywhere, other relatives end up doing it, and SIL feels she and dog are ostracized.
She's coming to visit us this weekend with her bf, and my MIL and FIL. They were supposed to all visit last week, but I told her under no circumstances could she bring her dog. Last week she couldn't find someone to watch the dog for her. I wonder why?
Parthenia is offline  
#14 of 25 Old 11-12-2004, 02:35 PM
 
Milky Way's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 419
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hey, as a person heavily involved in rescue I can offer some insight here. The owner of the dog did more than 95% of owners would do by paying your vet bill, I'm being serious here. That shows he realized he was at fault and he admited to that. As for even suggesting he get ride of the dog for a safer one is very immature and not a solution, it fact a dog atttacking a cat is not a problem it's called instinct!!!!!!!! Just as I'm sure your cats have brought you mice etc... it's instinct. Suggesting he learn more about his dog before allowing it off leash is a suggesetion. I'm sure he ment no harm and was as suprised as you that the incident happened. As for calling animal control for what , what do you plan on accomplishing, he paid your vet bill. Do you want animal control to come haul his dog off and put it to sleep?(they would not do that anyway, trust me on that one)

"but he is *just a dog*, get rid of him"
This qoute here is what is wrong with society today, people like you, see animals as disposable. Animals are not disposable they are living beings are you disposable, NO! : Maybe someone of your friends think your cats are just cats and who cares what happens to them. You love your cats and he loves his dog.

I'm sure you are mad about your cat but this dog is, I'm sure in a great home, and just because YOU don't like HIS DOG does not mean he needs to get ride of it or do anything at all. This just means he needs to learn about his dog and use a leash.

Oh and by the way dogs that attack cats DON"T attack children so everyone calm down. Do cats that kill mice kill children, NO! 99% of dogs that bite children are provoked by children by being stepped on tormented, hit, hugged, hurt, woken up etc... Out of these 95% are unsupersived....a good majority of those bites are actually by small dogs jack russels, rat terriers, cocker spaniels etc.... not saying all just saying most. These are stats from animal control and other organizations that I provide to new owners. I know a thing or two about bitting dogs as alot of the dogs I work with and foster are biters. They go on to have wonderful lives in new homes that understand them. Oh and by the way rescues don't adopt out vicious attack dogs that go on murder sprees. Do they adopt out dogs that have bitten(humans not prey), yes, is that wrong NO. Why because 99% of bites are the fault of the person being bitten not the fault of the dog. The other 1% are usually fighting dogs that get put down before you or even I ever see them.

Sorry to sound mad I just cannot stand people judging other people animals and suggesting they get ride of them. You have only been around the dog once and have no idea what it is like at home with this man. The dog is probably loved by this man and he will just need to take for care in handling his new pet.
Milky Way is offline  
#15 of 25 Old 11-12-2004, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
 
sunbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: lost in space
Posts: 838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
lady wulf, yeah, i knew the *just a dog* comment might get some hackles up- i have also volunteered in shelters and seen how many dogs and cats are euthanised. i feel very strongly about animals too, and would not normally call any living thing *just a ....*. i am sorry if i upset anyone. and i agree this is owner negligence, and a dog has no controll of his instincts unless very well trained- not his fault. and my feelings of defense on my kitties behalf are strong, thats why i titled this "vent" because conciously, i am very aware this is not the dogs fault, but i am angry right now, and emotions arent always logical.
i will post more later, have to go now. glad for the honest thoguthful replys.
sunbaby is offline  
#16 of 25 Old 11-12-2004, 02:57 PM
 
shannon0218's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Milky Way, I'm sorry, while I agree with most of what you are saying, I think you're being very harsh with Sunbaby.
She was terrified, she saw a large dog she doesn't know attack a tiny kitten and her old blind cat. I think a little compassion is certainly in order here.
You know what,I've trained dogs for 15 yrs, I specialize in working with aggresive dogs, my own dogs and my cat are like my children and while this may anger you and others--if someone's dog attacked my dogs or my cat, my first gut reaction would be to kill that dog myself--would I calm down, yeah, but I can tell you that someone yelling at me and telling me I'm immature would NOT HELP and would bring me no closer to being on side with the people who spend their lives working to protect animals.
Being kind and helping animals starts with being kind and helping people.

On the issue with the children--you will notice that the primary issue people brought up was that if this man was "dumb" enough to allow a dog he's only known for 2 weeks to simply jump out of his truck under NO CONTROL whatsoever, he is in NO POSITION to decide if this dog is safe around children--perhaps I missed it, but this was peoples primary concern--not that dogs that attack cats also attack children.

The OP has a tiny kitten with a puncture wound and any of us who has ever seen a large dog behave aggresively towards a smaller "being" knows how horrible and terrifying that is. And yeah, I've worked in humane societies and rescues too--as a matter of fact as the RVT, I'm usually the lucky one who gets to do the dirty work--I still think Sunbaby deserves a for seeing what she saw.
shannon0218 is offline  
#17 of 25 Old 11-12-2004, 04:03 PM
 
MamaAllNatural's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Nearest chair with *ONE* nursling!
Posts: 6,882
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Shannon ITA.

Sunbaby I hope your kitties are feeling better today.


Also, my dog is part wolf so I really did study up on this subject and I know a thing or two about instinct. I have trained her (my dog) to respect and obey me and have taught her to control this urge she has to chase cats. It's hard for her but she knows it's not acceptable. I'm saying that it is dangerous when dogs are hunting and killing cats. The dog needs to be trained to always listen to his owner/caretaker no matter what. This was my point.
MamaAllNatural is offline  
#18 of 25 Old 11-12-2004, 04:30 PM
 
Breathless Wonder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,133
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
The animal needs to be on record as being aggressive- instinct or not!

There are owners out there that will acknowledge that their animals have "issues" and then do nothing to rectify those issues- they will take no action whatsoever.

By having the animal on record with the town, if the animal shows a pattern of agression, and the owner shows a pattern of neglecting the issue, eventually the animal will be removed, and will no longer be a danger to other living things. If this was a one time accident, then it will never be an issue.

I mean, when is it worth reporting? When it bites a child? Mauls another dog? Kills the neighbor's cat?

He who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe is as good as dead; his eyes are closed.  ~Albert Einstein
Breathless Wonder is offline  
#19 of 25 Old 11-12-2004, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
sunbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: lost in space
Posts: 838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
wow, lots of posts came through when i was making mine, and lots more after that. gosh, i sure appreciate the loving and honest posts i have gotten here. the hugs i definately need. whoa, though, milky way. i feel totally attacked by your post. calling me immature and saying "people like you". well now, is just plain unfair. i have made it very clear that i posted in an emotional *vent* state, and my feelings do not = my thougts. i think i pretty openly asked folks to help me figure out what was rational and what was emotional, but certainly it is unhelpful and doubly hurtful to insult someone.

let me explain some of my thinking (or feeling ) behind the *just a dog* comment, because i certainly see myself as someone who considers all animals as important beings and have never ever before villainized an animal. i do beleive it is kinda pointless in the animal kingdom, they have a way different agenda. but for me, i have watched dd (four years old) love and nurture this kitten for four months, and the thought of having her witness the kittens bloody end was unthinkable and infuriating to me. my cat i have had for 14 years, and he has shown himself to be more trustworthy and loving a companion for my babe than any animal i have ever met. sorry to put my human judgements on the value of an animal, i think even that is odd. but here i am, a human, and i feel that way. this guy is obviously not too dog savvy, i mean, why did my dh have to grab the animal? why didnt the owner do something? so i just feel, well, he could return this dog, and save another one who needs him just as much, and would be more suitable for his personality. he's only had the dog for two weeks, less emotional investment, i am thinking, than in a pet he's had longer. i would hope the dog could find a home with more suitable owner.
so, milky way flame away if you must, but remember, the person to whom you are speaking is real, me, and i think if you knew me, you wouldnt even consider accusing me of the things you have now. i certainly didnt think anyone would post such an attack that would make me cry all the harder.

thankyou again to everyone else who has thoughtfully and honestly replyed. shannon, thanks for sticking up for me.
sunbaby is offline  
#20 of 25 Old 11-12-2004, 11:16 PM
 
LadyWulf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Anniston, AL
Posts: 972
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I DO understand your anger and fear. I have felt the same anger when someone has a loose dog that does something bad or gets hurt themselves.

I just hope you can understand that people who actively work in rescue and dedicate much of their lives to animals can and will be very defensive for the animals. We have seen too much abuse and too much abandonment.

Maybe the guy is a novice dog owner. Maybe he owned a dog before that was able to be let loose and be trusted. Hopefully he has learned from this incident that he needs to be more responsible with his dog.

I understand your reasoning is that he hasn't had his dog as long as you have had your cats. One thing that does bother me greatly though is that you presume to be able to know how this man feels about this dog and that he isn't as attached to the dog as if he had had him for years already. Nobody can say how another person feels within themselves.

If his experience with dogs was only a dog that could be trusted loose then this one incident has probably shown him that it isn't true for all dogs. It doesn't mean that he should give the dog back and get another one. Most rescues that i know of would take the dog back but would not adopt another to a person whos only reason for bringing the dog back was that it went after a cat. Now IF the person had stated before adopting the dog that it had to be able to get along with other animals and the rescue said it would and then it didn't...then that is a different story. What should be judged here isn't what he did this one time but what actions he takes AFTER it happened. He paid the vet bill and was apoligetic. That would lead one to believe that he never thought it would happen and he is taking responsibility. That would also mean that he won't let it happen again.
LadyWulf is offline  
#21 of 25 Old 11-13-2004, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
sunbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: lost in space
Posts: 838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
lady wulf, please know i hear you loud and clear.

please let me clarify. in explaining my feelings behind the *just a dog* comment (and let me tell you, it is getting absolutely painful to type that phrase again and again) i was not intending to justify some disposable animal attitude, or even continue to argue in favor of returning the dog, just explain the thoughts feelings that were in my head at the moment i originally typed it.

at this point, i feel a little more hope that *maybe* things will be ok with this dog, because regardless of my ideas, the guy is going to keep his dog. i do feel wierd about the fact that he said his next plan is to use a shock collar. i dont know much about this tool, but why not just leash the dog? how is causing the dog pain going to teach him to come when you call? maybe the dog trainers here can fill me in more on how this could possibly work. i know horses are very different animals, but in working with problem horses, causing pain seems to exacerbate training problems, rather than improve them.
i am also uneasy about the fact that this guy does own a cat. he sent the cat to live elsewhere while the dog settles in, and intends to reintroduce the cat soon. is this dog going to be ok with his 'own' cat? i sure hope so. i just wish the guy expressed plans to consult an expert dog trainer.

as for reporting this, i think this guy is nice and decent enough that i would rather just speak to him myself if i felt the need. my impression is that he is not so negligent that if his dog did harm again, he would ignore it. i do hope it never comes to that. if he had not been so sorry, i wouldnt think twice though about turning him in.
sunbaby is offline  
#22 of 25 Old 11-13-2004, 07:41 PM - Thread Starter
 
sunbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: lost in space
Posts: 838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
ps- i feel a little silly and defensive posting this but i cant seem to quit wanting folks to undestand. for the record, i have devoted the larger part of my twenties to animal wellfare too. my career is helping rehabilitate horses who have been misunderstood, mistreated and mistrained. my favorites are ex-racehorses, the ultimate disposable animal, bred by the thousands every year, ruined and permanently injured on the track at about the same rate.
before i was a sahm, i volunteered two whole afternoons a week in a program designed to help break the cycle of abuse to both animals and children. and just for good measure, all spiders who share my home are helped outside before i do cleaning so i dont suck any into the vaccume or wash them down the drain.

so if anyone still thinks i am a big meanie who would throw away a dog at the drop of a hat, well, then i guess i just am not going to be able to make you believe otherwise.
sunbaby is offline  
#23 of 25 Old 11-13-2004, 08:28 PM
 
MamaAllNatural's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Nearest chair with *ONE* nursling!
Posts: 6,882
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I knew right away. The fact that you care about your kitties so much shows how you feel about animals. Don't worry if people don't believe you.
MamaAllNatural is offline  
#24 of 25 Old 11-13-2004, 08:43 PM
 
Beansmom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,027
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Hope your kitties are doing better today. I understand where you were coming from. I was walking my dog one day (on a leash) and a dog ran from a yard acrossed the street and attacked my dog. I would have killed that dog myself if I had to, to help my dog. The owner came and got the dog (didn't apologize) and luckily my dog was okay. I still get upset when I think about it though. I see these incidents as totally being the owners fault though, not the dogs. That being said, my dog is a Samoyed, and very aggressive to small animals. I have seem her kill a baby squirrel and found a family of dead rabbits in our fenced in back yard. I never take her out off leash. She is also the most gentle animal in the world towards people and kids. So just because they are animal aggressive does not mean they are people aggresive at all. Sorry this happened to you, hopefully the man learned a lesson and will keep his dog on a leash.
Beansmom is offline  
#25 of 25 Old 11-13-2004, 09:43 PM
 
shannon0218's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 11,573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Sunbaby, I think it was obvious to most that your statement was solely based on the upset you had just experienced. For sure, I understand
In answer to your concern regarding the shock collar--please let him know his money would be far better spent attending a training class or having this dog worked with privately by a trainer. I am not against shock collars in the appropriate hands, but this is situation where the use of one will more than likely make the problem worse. Shock collars cannot be used "off leash" until you have an animal who is already 99.9% reliable--what will he do when the dog feels the shock and then takes off in fear?? Shock collars are a tool, not a magic wand. In order to get one that is even worth having (especially for a malamute) he would need to spend upwards of $300-400, otherwise he may as well not bother. To give you and him an idea, I have trained dogs for over 15yrs, I do own a good quality shock collar and I have used it only on a hand full of dogs--and mainly to "proof" an already trained dog--also primarily I would use one during specialized areas of training. For example, my dog is trained in French Ring and in Schutzhund. For ring we do an excercise where the dog is sent to attack a quarry about 200 feet away, when the dog is only a foot away from the "bad guy" we call him off and have him either lay down or return to our side. Sport dogs LOVE to bite, it is their reward, when the handler is 200 feet away, it is sometimes realized by the dog that there is nobody there to make the correction for the OUT command, this is an area where using a shock collar will proof the dog.
The main thing this guy needs to keep in mind before using one--dog must A) be on leash, B) be 100% reliable with the command while on leash for a minimum of 6 weeks and C) His (owner's) timing must be impeccable--one well timed correction works wonders, a poorly timed one simply does more to confuse the dog. Timing in training takes years to develop--which is why I strongly believe that shock collars should not be sold to the general public--in the wrong hands they cause more harm than they can help.
shannon0218 is offline  
Reply


User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Online Users: 1,851

16 members and 1,835 guests
CajunPacificNWFam , Hyacinthe , jeandoe , Jewels411 , Judy Arnall , kathymuggle , KerriB , kimilimes , lauritagoddess , megaluv2give , omarinbox1888 , PrayerOFChrist , Realdeal , rosehakim , skyrocket , uiyesasdx
Most users ever online was 21,860, 06-22-2018 at 08:45 PM.