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#31 of 48 Old 10-23-2014, 09:40 AM
 
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Clovebucket,

I cannot imagine going through what you have been through...yet, I know, mama's do endure these tremendous losses..

I am thankful to have read your perspective and your story. You have gained a lot of wisdom through your experience.

Blessings!

Blessed Christian Wife and Homeschooling Mother to 10 children.


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#32 of 48 Old 10-23-2014, 11:45 AM
 
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Are ultrasounds safe?

Hello everyone! I have been doing a lot of research on ultrasounds, trying to weigh out the pros and cons of having one done. So far the evidence that I have found against ultrasounds seem to be based in the fear that there is not information about ultrasounds and how they effect the developing baby to be sure that they are actually safe and do not have consequences that science has yet to catch up with. In your own research, have any of you found arguments against ultrasounds for safety reasons?
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#33 of 48 Old 10-23-2014, 03:19 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CorianderBells View Post

For those of you stating that "Ultrasounds are perfectly safe", did you know that ultrasounds and doppler have *never* been proven safe for use on babies in utero, and that there is much evidence pointing that ultrasounds and dopplers are not only unsafe, but very harmful? Remember, this is a newer technology under widespread use and that everyone used to claim that xrays were perfectly safe for unborn babies. We now know better.
I have looked in to it a LOT, as this is what I am going to school for, and there is nothing showing them to be harmful. I wanted to make sure my career wasn't going to be in something unsafe. I guess you can say they have *never* been proven safe, but they have *never* been proven unsafe either. I believe the millions of babies born perfectly fine after use is proof enough for me. A lot of claims of things happening are things that would have happened anyways even if no ultrasound was used. Studies have debunked many of those myths. The studies that said ultrasound *might* be harmful, the amount used was 50-100 times more powerful than what is used in regular use, so it is not comparable.

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Jett 10/13/06 Tzipporah 7/28/10 Xander 7/11/13


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#34 of 48 Old 10-27-2014, 09:50 AM
 
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Clovebucket,

I cannot imagine going through what you have been through...yet, I know, mama's do endure these tremendous losses..

I am thankful to have read your perspective and your story. You have gained a lot of wisdom through your experience.

Blessings!
Thank you I do feel as though I have grown through the experience, so I am thankful for that. It is too easy to think of what we expected and what we 'lost'. In life if we can (most of the time) appreciate what we GET, we are in for such a happier ride. Hugs <3

Mother to angel son E.G.L., our first child diagnosed with bilateral renal agenesis (classic Potters syndrome, no kidneys) at 32 weeks, carried to 43 weeks & stillborn at home Dec 2013. He continues to teach me lessons of love every single day. Pregnant with our expectant rainbow due April 2015!
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#35 of 48 Old 11-01-2014, 07:57 PM
 
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Hello everyone! I have been doing a lot of research on ultrasounds, trying to weigh out the pros and cons of having one done. So far the evidence that I have found against ultrasounds seem to be based in the fear that there is not information about ultrasounds and how they effect the developing baby to be sure that they are actually safe and do not have consequences that science has yet to catch up with. In your own research, have any of you found arguments against ultrasounds for safety reasons?
My good friend put it this way: its not so much about their safety as how they are used. Like a lot of routine screenings, ultrasounds are not really diagnostic. They can tell you there might be an issue, but in the end they'll only lead to more interventions. So its up to the mama to assess what her risk factors are, whether or not that kind of screening would be useful, and if she could handle the uncertainty and fear of there possibly being an issue and undergoing further interventions (with the distinct possibility that there was likely nothing wrong in the first place). Of course, they are totally useful in catching things super early if there IS a problem, and they can be downright fun (seeing the baby, learning the sex, etc.). Its up to the mama to make the choice if its right for her, and planning on how you will deal with any information they provide you with.


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#36 of 48 Old 11-02-2014, 09:25 AM
 
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Here is my take on it. Ultrasounds can be life saving. They also can be life wrecking. It depends. You just have to use your brain. You can't just follow your doctors orders willy nilly, you have to think about why you are doing it, what benefit it's going to provide to you and make your decision.

In my opinion, there has to be an indication. So, whatever the condition the patient is in or has, if the fundal height is normal for the week, the baby is moving well, the mother is feeling well, the heartbeat is good, blood pressure, protein, etc are all good, why should she have to get regular ultrasounds - even if you are old, black, white, on high blood pressure meds, diabetic, etc, etc. etc.. It's stupid.

For example, If you have high blood pressure, and everything is good up to that point, maybe you would opt to do the anatomy scan at 20 weeks to ensure your placenta function is fine and the baby is growing properly (which you already know). If that's fine, then leave it at that unless there is another indicator suggesting another look may be necessary. Without indication, it's stupid - and that's where I feel ultrasounds are overused and the information abused, used incorrectly to force women into unnecessary and often very costly interventions.

The big business of genetics is also a very big question of mine, but it's like filtering though a huge abyss that I didn't want to go through.

The best way to make decisions is to educate yourself. Knowledge is power.

In my opinion, if it makes you feel better (aka not worry) than that's enough reason for me, you know? If I was going to worry day and night that there may be something wrong - it's dumb. Just get the ultrasound and get on with your life, kwim? The baby feels your stress and anxiety - which in the end could be infinitely worse.

Meditation during pregnancy is essential in my opinion. Perhaps prayer.
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Homeschooling, homebirthing mom to 3 (10, 5 and 2). Fourth expected in late March (yeah right, I carry forever). Probably mid-April!
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#37 of 48 Old 11-02-2014, 02:54 PM
 
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My on uses the u/s to check the heart rates every appointment (4 weeks) since there are twins it's a more accurate way to know which is which.
Lisa.R I'm in the camp where I find it soo relaxing to know they are ok, so for me it's the right thing plus my dh loves it! (He's a doctor) he finds the scans fascinating lol, and it really makes it real for him to.
I totally agree each to their own - every woman needs to get to the end of her pregnancy the easiest way for her heck we had to do ivf to get here (scans every other day, injections, surgery) so for me it feels normal. I admire the ones without fear and the ability to just relax and go with the flow
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#38 of 48 Old 11-03-2014, 11:07 AM
 
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I'm kind of DDC chrashing, but I might give birth in April, so I'm going to lurk here

Clovebucket, your son's story made me cry. You're a wonderful, strong mama.

LizLamb, I wanted to let you know that you aren't alone. We prefer not to use ultrasound unless there is an indication of something wrong. When I was pregnant with my son, we got a 12 week dating scan, but soon afterwards decided we didn't want to use ultrasound and refused doppler for the rest of the pregnancy as well. I actually never heard his heartbeat because all my midwife at the time had was a wooden fetoscope (can't remember what those are called right now) but my husband got to hear it. I did consent to two doppler "listen-ins" while in labour and will do the same with this baby. At my first appointment last week, I did ask to hear the heartbeat with doppler and that will be the only time we use it until the birth. I lost my last pregnancy at 12 weeks and that little listen did a lot to reassure me that baby was ok. I think that reducing that stress for me made it worth it.

My midwife is completely ok with not using ultrasound or doppler. The midwife I had with my son was not and she was actually a total bag about it. Ton's of pressure. She tried to scare me into getting the 20 week scan by telling me about a mom who refused it and her baby was born with his insides on the outside. She also tried to undermine my husband's confidence in our decision when I went to the bathroom to do a urine test, making it seem like I was crazy and "he didn't have to go along with this". I was pretty outraged that that was the midwifery care that I could receive. She was the only available option at the time.

Personally, I don't necessarily think ultrasound is harmful. I do know that it doesn't improve outcomes, statistically. But I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting or feeling like you need that information. I just don't feel like I need all the information. One thing that gives me pause is that we all (or hopefully all) know that unnecessary, "non-medically recommended" ultrasounds are not a good idea. That is Health Canada's position anyway. They are against recreational, 3D ultrasounds, etc. So, not that I bow down to health authorities, but if they say "this" much ultrasound might be bad, then, for me, that puts into question the safety of ANY ultrasounds. Unless there is some indication that there's something wrong with the baby, placenta, etc. then it can be used as a tool to help and is the lesser "evil", so to speak.

Karla (25), loving having and growing a family: my amazing DP, DS (2), DSD (7). Expecting my second
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#39 of 48 Old 11-03-2014, 01:21 PM
 
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I totally agree on the caution that ultrasounds can sometimes be misleading, or downright wrong... My midwife told me about a woman who had 6 ultrasounds all looking at the heart of her baby as there was a problem suspected there. When baby was born, his heart was fine - but he had no toes.

Go figure



That said, I had my 16 week scan today and got the best news of my life - I am absolutely over the moon to see my baby has both kidneys present, and normal fluid around him/her indicating healthy kidney function! I cried with relief that we are not having a recurrence of our first baby's fatal condition, something I have been anxious about for months on end. Our rainbow is one step closer to our arms

Mother to angel son E.G.L., our first child diagnosed with bilateral renal agenesis (classic Potters syndrome, no kidneys) at 32 weeks, carried to 43 weeks & stillborn at home Dec 2013. He continues to teach me lessons of love every single day. Pregnant with our expectant rainbow due April 2015!
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#40 of 48 Old 11-03-2014, 01:53 PM
 
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Wandering blues - welcome! Congrats on being calm and at peace with your pg!
Clovebucket - congrats and huge hugs on all that stress mama! So glad to hear your little one will be able to survive!!! I get those tears of relief too, the first time I saw / heard the heartbeats... Enjoy and celebrate your great news xxx
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#41 of 48 Old 11-04-2014, 06:47 AM
 
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Clovebucket - so happy to hear that good news, I am sure that must be a huge relief for you!!

Loving wife to DH and
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#42 of 48 Old 11-05-2014, 05:13 AM
 
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Hi and congratulations to all of you! I'm from the December DDC, pregnant with my sixth!

I found this thread and I want to share my experience. I think it can be a really complicated choice and discussions like this help each mom to find her own way. There is no easy answer and the benefits of ultrasound certainly may outweigh the risks for some moms, even if it's just emotional benefits. I certainly acknowledge that my personal choice to opt out does not mean that is right for everyone. I had scans with my first four babies. I began reading more about my options after my fourth birth and made some different decisions with my fifth baby in 2012. It took four months into my pregnancy to find the right care provider and when we went for the first appointment I could already feel him moving. As soon as the doppler was applied, he changed from his normal swishing, calm movements to frantic movements, obviously trying to move away from the doppler. As the doppler went from one side to the other, he got more frantic. My husband was worried b/c he wanted to hear the heartbeat, so I let them continue, even though it distressed him and I knew he was ok in there and moving well. After that appointment though, I only wanted the fetoscope and we opted out of the ultrasound scan. I have since read a lot more about the technology and feel that it's important for each mom to know all of the data to make informed decisions for herself and her baby. Apparently different babies react differently to the ultrasound waves. Also, there is no regulation on the frequency output, so the machines are not always calibrated to any standard and some may output stronger waves. Some small scale studies have been done on the technology, but no large scale studies that I am aware of to date. The small studies that have been done raise some concerns that are worth being aware of in decision weighing.

Here is an amazing source on ultrasound technology with a lot of references:

http://sarahbuckley.com/ultrasound-s...se-for-concern

Here is a link to one of her references:

http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articl...oundwagner.asp

Both she and her husband are medical doctors. The second link to one of her sources is also written by a medical doctor.

I appreciated being able to have access to this kind of information, so I wanted to share!
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#43 of 48 Old 11-05-2014, 03:47 PM
 
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Hi and congratulations to all of you! I'm from the December DDC, pregnant with my sixth!

I found this thread and I want to share my experience. I think it can be a really complicated choice and discussions like this help each mom to find her own way. There is no easy answer and the benefits of ultrasound certainly may outweigh the risks for some moms, even if it's just emotional benefits. I certainly acknowledge that my personal choice to opt out does not mean that is right for everyone. I had scans with my first four babies. I began reading more about my options after my fourth birth and made some different decisions with my fifth baby in 2012. It took four months into my pregnancy to find the right care provider and when we went for the first appointment I could already feel him moving. As soon as the doppler was applied, he changed from his normal swishing, calm movements to frantic movements, obviously trying to move away from the doppler. As the doppler went from one side to the other, he got more frantic. My husband was worried b/c he wanted to hear the heartbeat, so I let them continue, even though it distressed him and I knew he was ok in there and moving well. After that appointment though, I only wanted the fetoscope and we opted out of the ultrasound scan. I have since read a lot more about the technology and feel that it's important for each mom to know all of the data to make informed decisions for herself and her baby. Apparently different babies react differently to the ultrasound waves. Also, there is no regulation on the frequency output, so the machines are not always calibrated to any standard and some may output stronger waves. Some small scale studies have been done on the technology, but no large scale studies that I am aware of to date. The small studies that have been done raise some concerns that are worth being aware of in decision weighing.

Here is an amazing source on ultrasound technology with a lot of references:

http://sarahbuckley.com/ultrasound-s...se-for-concern

Here is a link to one of her references:

http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articl...oundwagner.asp

Both she and her husband are medical doctors. The second link to one of her sources is also written by a medical doctor.

I appreciated being able to have access to this kind of information, so I wanted to share!
Thank you for this article!! It is the best one that I have found so far and will go a long way for my partner and I in making the decision of whether or not have an ultrasound.
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#44 of 48 Old 11-07-2014, 09:13 PM
 
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I'm 16 weeks pregnant. I had 3 losses before this pregnancy. And before that I had 7 pregnancies/births with no issues. When I fell pregnant this time I had no intention of having any ultrasounds, until the absolute fear hit me that I will have ANOTHER missed miscarriage (2 of mine were missed). I went for an 9 weeks u/s and then I bought a doppler. I use it once a week and for a couple of minutes to find the heartbeat. It has been incredibly reassuring to me. We have decided to not do the 18-20 week u/s.
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#45 of 48 Old 11-23-2014, 04:17 PM
 
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I'm 16 weeks pregnant. I had 3 losses before this pregnancy. And before that I had 7 pregnancies/births with no issues. When I fell pregnant this time I had no intention of having any ultrasounds, until the absolute fear hit me that I will have ANOTHER missed miscarriage (2 of mine were missed). I went for an 9 weeks u/s and then I bought a doppler. I use it once a week and for a couple of minutes to find the heartbeat. It has been incredibly reassuring to me. We have decided to not do the 18-20 week u/s.
Hi all I would like to join this thread


I had scans at 6 and 7 weeks due to bleeding. also with an ivf pregnancy I wanted to be sure of no ectopic or twins.


However I have decided to have no more ultra sounds unless I feel that I should. My midwife has used Doppler were briefly (she has concerns about it). However I am thinking of asking her to move to pinyard soon when the heart beat will be easier to hear.


I have some concerns about the safety although I also feel comforted that most people have them. Though with the state of health in the western world that it's always an endorsement!


The main reason is that I don't want the stress. So often I hear stories of people who have scan after scan even where there may be no problem at all. Sarah Buckley quotes research that parents may stay concerned by concerning ultra sound results that doctors then say are nothing even as the child grows up. A friend told a story about a medical condition that needed surgery after birth but the multiple scans and worry were far more stressful. I would not be aborting this baby for any reason but I wouldn't want my pregnancy overshadowed by knowing they had a condition.


My 12 week hospital appointment was awful I was asked to justify why I didn't want the scan to everyone from the receptionist up. They insisted I book a appointment to justify myself to a consultant. I've booked with an independent midwife since who is very relaxed and is fine for me not to have scans.


Socially it's difficult. I must be asked how many weeks I am 3 or 4 times a day. as soon as I say 20 weeks they immediately say ooh whens your scan? I think next week I will have to break out the white lies.


I still haven't felt any movement so it is hard not having had the scan but I feel reassured by having heard the heart beat.

Missing my dh everyday candle.gif and hoping there is a brighter future for me out there

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#46 of 48 Old 11-29-2014, 10:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My husband is even getting tired of people asking what the sex is!! I personally don't tell that many people that I'm not getting scanned. Seems anytime I mention these things whether it be vaccines, circumcision, homebirth, etc SOMEONE has to be super emotional about it. I'm feeling much better about not having any scans or listening to the heartbeat since baby Lamb has been moving regularly for weeks!! We are going to attempt to use the fetal stethoscope again at my next appointment. I'll be 22 weeks. If we still can't hear it the midwife might want to use the doppler. Hopefully we hear it

I completely understand your point of view Clovebucket. If I had a loss I would probably find reassurance in the scan for future pregnancies as well. I feel blessed everything has been so easy this far. Hopefully labor and delivery is just as smooth!!!
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#47 of 48 Old 02-14-2015, 09:47 AM
 
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I just wanted to add that if anyone is choosing to use the fetoscope exclusively (as we are), mamas can still listen! For my first several appointments my midwife used a fetoscope with a very short cord and I assumed that was they way they were all made, but then I had an appointment with her partner who had a fetoscope with a longer cord. I was so surprised when she offered it to me to listen!

Homeschooled / dance teacher / birth doula mama (25) expecting baby #1 4.26.15 with pilot / dance teacher hubby (27)
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#48 of 48 Old 07-11-2015, 07:58 AM
 
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I am moving a little past the halfway point. So decided to just go with an OB, and after the move transfer to a midwife. Had a 8 week TVU when I reported very little symptoms, poor excuse to be shuttled into the ultrasound room. I went along with it, but afterwards regretted it because I was already leaning towards no US/dopplers.

At my 12 week appt. they brought in the Doppler and I declined. That started the stirring of the pot so to speak. Just got a call at 15 weeks from the OB office saying they want to drop me from care if I do not go through with a 20 week anatomy or (which is 1 hr long by the way) or consent to Doppler.

I'm not stressing too much because before I know it I will be under the care of a midwife, but there will be a month gap in care of any kind. I plan on purchasing the best fetoscope I can afford so I can use it when that time comes. This is my first, so I have no history to go by. My gut is just telling me to have faith that everything is going well. I feel great, and my little bump is growing. It's so easy to doubt yourself when you have doctors whispering negativity in your ears.

Has anyone ever experienced a situation like this? I feel like I am basically being bullied by the OB practice.
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